Welcome to the AGS Awards (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/wiki/Ags_awards), the annual event where the you, the player, choose the best games of the year!
Sequins & pearls time again folks, it's the AGS Awards 2013!
Party is over! Check winners (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/wiki/AGS_Awards_2013) & the logs (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/AGSAwards/ags_awards_log_2013.php) & video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pb03pzWyEJU&feature=youtu.be)!
Step # 0 - play them games!You have some time to play games made in 2013. Do it!
Step # 1 - nomination time!Select games you deem worthy in each category!
Step # 2 - vote, folks!Pick from the nominees and we get a winner!
Step # 3 - party!Big party to celebrate the winners!
Be sociable and mingle in this thread.
Um... Jim... unless the rules have changed, pretty sure Primordia was released in December 2012??
Quote
Released
Dec 05, 2012
It's kind of ipso facto for inclusion in the AGS awards, don't release a game in December if you want to stand a chance...! ;)
Pretty sure, but the game was never in the database. I asked bici, and he said it's eligible. Now if and whether it should morally be here, is a good question, my main concern was to finally bother to add it to the database, if anyone feels it's injust and wrong, please take this via pms and I shall inform bici not to count the votes Primordia gets (if any).
The relevant date is the date in which the game is added to the database.
A similar situation happened last year with Space Quest II VGA (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/site/games/game/1518), which was released in 2011 but added in the db in 2012.
Mods, can you cut/paste these three posts to the AGS Awards main thread (or just delete them, if it is easier)? I'd like this to be for showcasing only!
I don't really care about which games are elligible or not since I don't have a game out this year, but I kind of think that a game should contend in the year it was officially released, and not when somebody finally decides to put it in the database. Was there a reason not to put Primordia up for the awards last year?
Can I ask a stupid question? What's the difference between "Best Game" and "Best Gameplay"?
Thanks Andail! Guys and gals, please keep comments here and the FYC for showcasing only.
Quote from: CaptainD on Wed 01/01/2014 11:15:05
Can I ask a stupid question? What's the difference between "Best Game" and "Best Gameplay"?
Gameplay is (very general) the way the players "interacts" with the game; Best Game considers all the factors of the game (story, dialogues, music, art, gameplay, etc.).
Ok, I split the FYC thread and pasted the discussion posts here.
As I said, I have no personal interest in not seeing Primordia elligible this year, but I do think that principally, a game should contend the year it was officially released.
I think this because 1) it doesn't make sense that the database entry date should hold precedence over that actual release date - it just goes against all logic, 2) there's no reason Primordia could not have competed last year (it's not like the authors weren't aware of the awards, or that none of the team was around to put it up), and 3) people may suspect others of strategically witholding their games, to appear in a year with less competition instead.
Concerning to what has been said, the team forgot to put it on the database, and were terribly busy with its release, it completely slipped our minds. I would prefer to have competed against Resonance and Cat Lady. This is not an effort in any way to gain AGS awards for the sake of getting them, I added the game yesterday, and since everyone appears to make this a bigger deal than I intended, I officially would like Primordia not to partake in the AGS Awards of 2013, and any votes toward it, please be ignored.
I don't mind you participating, on the contrary I think Primordia definitely deserves lots of awards - my post was more aimed at the rules per see. It's not like we could change the rules until next year either way.
Just voicing my opinion :)
I've always felt the fact that the AGS database lists the release date as the day it's added to the db a silly thing. It would be better changed to "published on" and/or have a field where you can pick a date for the released on date. When it comes to the awards I don't mind Primordia to be in the awards this year but feel Andail is right where the rules should not allow it.. But then rather we should make it possible to set a released on date so games can still be added even when we go into the new year. (Where then off course bicilotti or any other awards staff can "deny" entries added in the database after the new year with release dates before if they find proof that the game was in fact NOT released on the date specified, if really anyone would try and "cheat" their game into the awards). Though I guess this would also require developing a new system for the whole awards stuff..
Nomination games should take consideration with both database and announcements in the messageboard.
The oldest date should be taken.
We should put some warning when submitting games in December that AGS awards are coming up and that a games likely-hood of getting awards is diminished.
To be fair, though, December is a perfect time to release your game...almost everyone is on break, but you might not hit a critical mass to get the votes necessary to win an award.
Yep. And even the time between Dec and the awards/nominations etc themselves plays a big part. Some years people have had mere weeks from Dec 31st to awards time to play and vote, last year I think it wasn't until March that the awards got underway so folks had a long time to play and consider votes (and that clearly gave CL an opportunity). Things seem to be in normal timeframes this year (nice one bici!)
Excellent to see discussion about the Awards.
I do require games to be added to the database in order to partake in the Awards because it is a minimum-effort action which signals:
1. that the developer somewhat "acknowledges" the AGS community
2. that s/he is wanting to participate in the Awards (or at least is not opposed to this)
Having said that, there seems to be a consensus on the fact that:
1. games should participate in the Awards year_x only if they were released in such year
If that's the point and you all agree (which is why I am posting this, to probe the community), I can make the necessary arrangements with AGA. There is no need to change the way the DB works for now, I will just ask AGA to modify the DB_add_date for a game:
1. if a dev asks this to me (and it is appropriate, i.e. to make add_date match release_date);
2. if it is shown to me that the game is not eligible for the Awards_years_x
Since we are pretty early in the process, if there is general immediate and positive feedback, new policy can take place now.
Quote from: bicilotti on Wed 01/01/2014 21:57:25
Having said that, there seems to be a consensus on the fact that:
1. games should participate in the Awards year_x only if they were released in such year
Curse these convoluted rules! The Rich Dame Who Cut The Cheese wasn't able to make the last awards last time because it wasn't in the database (having been part of the Bake Sale bundle when it was released). And now it won't be able to enter this years award because it came out with the Bake Sale bundle. Why do the rules foil me at every turn! :P
Quote from: Ponch on Wed 01/01/2014 22:13:42
Quote from: bicilotti on Wed 01/01/2014 21:57:25
Having said that, there seems to be a consensus on the fact that:
1. games should participate in the Awards year_x only if they were released in such year
Curse these convoluted rules! The Rich Dame Who Cut The Cheese wasn't able to make the last awards last time because it wasn't in the database (having been part of the Bake Sale bundle when it was released). And now it won't be able to enter this years award because it came out with the Bake Sale bundle. Why do the rules foil me at every turn! :P
Maybe I am missing something, but how is it that RAM Ghost (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/site/games/game/1532/) managed to squeeze into 2012 Awards? 8-0edit: PM received, thanks for explaining the situation
I don't see what the problem is.
It's a pretty simple rule, peeps! December 31st! In database! Twelve! Three! One! Database! ;-D
Yes, people don't exclusively release/discover games through the database (as has been pointed out, announcements in CGA are usually how the community becomes aware of newly released games), but the database entries greatly simplify the process of compiling a list of any given years eligible games.
This information, iirc, is directly tied to the generation of each years voting system. It's also the only rule in regards to eligibility, and not really an awful lot to ask. It takes about the same (if not less) time as creating a CGA thread.
There's been a some discussion lately about how the database functions (ratings, classes, user control, etc), and it's got me a-thinkin'! In regards to the awards and release dates, I'd like to see a process where the creation of a CGA thread triggers an automatic listing in the database, containing bare-bones information, which can then be embellished upon by that game's author at their leisure. This would ensure that all dates correlate, regardless of how the game was announced. I don't know if this would be viable, but since our forum profiles are already tied to the database, it seems like a logical step. It would also avoid possible claims of delaying a games inclusion in the database to avoid a particularly strong awards line-up (not that I believe anyone would be that determined to win).
To return to a point bicilotti made: The AGS awards are community awards, and it's nice when the authors invest in and engage with the community, and take the time to participate in the awards (by ensuring award eligibility, etc).
As for commercial games, I've long since held the opinion the commercial games should only be eligible for one possible award: Best Commercial Game. No offense to commercial developers (or, indeeed, non-commercial developers), but I don't consider the two interchangeable. Like I said, though, it's just my opinion. :X
Anyhow, thanks to bicilotti for (again) hosting our awards!
QuoteAs for commercial games, I've long since held the opinion the commercial games should only be eligible for one possible award: Best Commercial Game.
+1
Quote from: miguel on Thu 02/01/2014 09:34:10
QuoteAs for commercial games, I've long since held the opinion the commercial games should only be eligible for one possible award: Best Commercial Game.
+1
+1
What if there was a special class for commercial games, that involved all categories? Next year will see a lot of big commercial titles, and it would seem strange with only one award.
Sounds good, even if not all the categories.
Why not change the rules of the "Completed Game Announcements" board so that games posted there MUST also be added to the AGS database? It could be a rule like how games posted in the "AGS Games in Production" board must have two screenshots.
Edit: Or what LimpingFish said too!
I misread something. No post.
Seems a bit much to have to vote for best commercial and free game categories. I understand wanting to award free work over a commercially motivated work, but when I vote I always weigh how much I actually paid for a game.
So if a free game has graphics that are great and a commercial game has graphics that are great, I'd naturally be inclined to give it to the free game.
Mills, I also favour the underdog at al times, but in my opinion, having separate voting classes would protect the one-man-does-it-all type of games, who are never to stand a chance against semi-pro teams.
Thinking about it, it's not that Primordia (this is a example) shouldn't be Best AGS Game of The Year, but we should have Best Non-Commercial Game of The Year as well. This put does it make more sense?
Actually I'm all for keeping commercial games separate, not because commercial games may be produced by more professional creators. In fact I don't think that would make such a huge distinction. There are also many professionally made free games as well. My main concern is that being a commercial game it is not available to everybody and only those who paid for it have really played it(unless, well...). Even when there is a free demo it cannot do the full game's justice. By making commercial games compete with non-commercial ones it will just make things complicated, as there will be a number of voters who have only played either kind of games, but not both.
Makes sense as well.
I am of course biased on that subject (I'm severely sore and butthurt about PISS never competing with other games because it wasn't put in the database) but I think voting eligibility entirely relying on the game entry being added on time... is rather unwise. I think people who maintain the awards should have the power to add any fitting games they are aware of into the eligibility list regardless of the time they were added or whether they've been added at all. Just my opinion.
Quote from: miguel on Thu 02/01/2014 14:05:07
Thinking about it, it's not that Primordia (this is a example) shouldn't be Best AGS Game of The Year, but we should have Best Non-Commercial Game of The Year as well. This put does it make more sense?
I like that idea...Having both a commercial and non-commercial game of the year, but leaving the other categories as a free-for-all.
Perhaps, some historical perspectives on how many awards in the past have gone to commercial vs. free games would give us enough context to decide to split all categories. For instance, if 90% of the awards go to a commercial game, then that might point out that there should be separate awards for both on all categories.
Quote from: MillsJROSS on Fri 03/01/2014 00:51:54
Quote from: miguel on Thu 02/01/2014 14:05:07
Thinking about it, it's not that Primordia (this is a example) shouldn't be Best AGS Game of The Year, but we should have Best Non-Commercial Game of The Year as well. This put does it make more sense?
I like that idea...Having both a commercial and non-commercial game of the year, but leaving the other categories as a free-for-all.
Perhaps, some historical perspectives on how many awards in the past have gone to commercial vs. free games would give us enough context to decide to split all categories. For instance, if 90% of the awards go to a commercial game, then that might point out that there should be separate awards for both on all categories.
Mills, you weren't around but we had this exact scenario happen last year where one certain commercial game won pretty much every award there was. It lead to discussion similar to this one now, were most people favor a seperation, me included.
Quote from: qptain Nemo on Thu 02/01/2014 18:28:29
I think people who maintain the awards should have the power to add any fitting games they are aware of into the eligibility list regardless of the time they were added or whether they've been added at all.
But why? Not to go
too big, but the Academy Awards, for instance(!), don't work in this way. Eligible films must be submitted (which is the responsibility of the film's producers) to the Academy within a set time frame, or they don't get to compete. It's not down to the Academy, or any third-party, to ensure certain films aren't overlooked.
Quote from: MillsJROSS on Fri 03/01/2014 00:51:54
I like that idea...Having both a commercial and non-commercial game of the year, but leaving the other categories as a free-for-all.
Just to clarify, I believe that commercial games should only be eligible for
one award, Best Commercial Game, for the reasons mentioned in my earlier post, though I also support the point that Iceboty7000a has raised.
Every year we try and invoke changes on the awards. Bici, you are a strong man for keeping it as it is - freeware + commercial, I salute you!!
It's kind of a given. You use AGS for however long to make a game the least you can do is add it to the db the same time you spam us with your completed games thread ;) At least it shows to some extent your enthusiasm to have used AGS and to be releasing it here. And those who don't bother, or manage to disappear even before it's released - well that's their problem entirely.
Personally, I still enjoy an all encompassing AGS awards. It's the best of the best of the ENGINE. Whether someone paid for the best or got it free... it's personal opinion. Great games will always be rewarded no matter how they are distributed. I don't think a single category change would do this "idea" justice, you would need two seperate awards, the freeware awards and the commercial awards. And then, it's not all-encompassing anymore. Some people won't be arsed with one some people won't be arsed with the other.
Maybe people feel the awards aren't "organic" anymore. That they are dictated by numbers, figures etc. But I still don't believe that myself. You still have to have a forum account to cast a vote. If people actually paid their wages into getting an AGS game they should be as welcome to the awards as people who got one for free, and vice versa. I still, personally, like it as it is. Look at this upcoming awards. You have a gigantic freeware game vs very few commercial ones this time round. Isn't that exciting? Cos every year it will fluctuate. One year you might have 3 freeware entries and 20 commercial entries. IMO, keep it as it is ;)
I've confused myself: what WERE the 2013 commercial games??
Quote from: LimpingFish on Fri 03/01/2014 01:16:11
But why? Not to go too big, but the Academy Awards, for instance(!), don't work in this way. Eligible films must be submitted (which is the responsibility of the film's producers) to the Academy within a set time frame, or they don't get to compete. It's not down to the Academy, or any third-party, to ensure certain films aren't overlooked.
Why? You mean you wouldn't want the competition to be as inclusive as possible without some games lost to arbitrary trivial technicalities? I know I would and I say that as a player not as a developer. If my favourite game got excluded that way and I wouldn't be able to vote for it, I'd be even more pissed than I am about PISS. (pun not intended) And now I recall I actually was really pissed about Primordia as well. Let me ask you too, why not? What exactly is there to lose by trying to represent AGS gaming as accurately as possible and including all games we're aware of?
Thanks for the inputs everyone!
The point I was asking opinions on is more specific, though.
In plain words, we face the case of a game which was released in 2012 but added to the DB way later (not just one or two days later, like SQII VGA, not because of technical problems as for some Bake Sale entries). I found it eligible for this year Awards but it seems a large majority is against this decision.
Since it is the first time this happens, it's appropriate to promptly decide on a general rule.
So please, clearly state your opinion on this circumscribed matter.
edit: that is not to kill off other relevant discussion (commercial/not, DB entry neede/not). Please do keep talking about those topics, on this one I need an answer fast though. :P
Ahem, let me intervene, but I've kind of withdrawn the game, since Andail pointed out it may end up having heated discussions. So why are we discussing this?
I'm perfectly happy to let this one go. :smiley:
That's because I have got the attention span of a goldfish... But I will redeem myself by adding random smileys and a Larry Vales, :-[ :X ;-D (wtf) (roll) :=
Please go on doing whatever you were doing.
Quote from: qptain Nemo on Thu 02/01/2014 18:28:29
I think people who maintain the awards should have the power to add any fitting games they are aware of into the eligibility list regardless of the time they were added or whether they've been added at all. Just my opinion.
Double post to assess this particular point: as I said adding the game to the database is the simplest way to state "deal me in, please". I have know at least one developer who purposely didn't add their game to the DB because they didn't want to be associated with the community (and I guess, with the Awards too). To sum sup: imho
some kind of "submission rule" will be always needed, wherever you decide to technically draw the line.
Aaaaaand to restate a well known thought of mine: to prevent and counter the risk of inflation, we need less categories, not more!
Quote from: Andail on Thu 02/01/2014 10:17:57
What if there was a special class for commercial games, that involved all categories? Next year will see a lot of big commercial titles, and it would seem strange with only one award.
I completely agree with Andail. While it does makes sense to have another class, it really doesn't make sense to make just a single category of 'Best Commercial Game". As we all know, not even a commercial game is perfect in all the aspects. Hence, having only one category would do great injustice to other commercial games. I would really like to see same categories for Commercial Class too.
As for the other topic, I second the idea of having another field in games' database to include a date when the game was 'actually' released. With the blank or default input referring to the release date, on which the game was added.
As for yet another topic, I second the idea of allowing Primordia and similar cases for
this year only.
I'm a bit confused. Are we talking specifically about Primordia here? Why all surreptitious about it?
As I see it, I don't find any issue with a game being added to the DB even years later, to allow eligibility. It's a bit odd to do, but whatever. I also support the idea that games wishing to be eligible for the AGS awards need to be in the DB, and they'll be considered for the year they were put in. It's on the game's creators whether they want to or not.
I'm also feeling that I agree with LimpingFish's idea of only allowing commercial games to be eligible for the Best Commercial Game award. The other option would be to have a "Commercial" version of every award, and that just wouldn't be feasible.
Speaking of trimming the award categories, here are the voted categories from last year:
Best Game Created with AGS
Best Gameplay
Best Original Story
Best Dialogue Writing
Best Puzzles
Best Short Game
Best Demo
Best Non-Adventure Game Created with AGS
Best Player Character
Best Non-Player Character
Best Background Art
Best Character Art
Best Animation
Best Programming
Best Tutorial or Documentation
Best Sound Effects
Best Music
Best Voice Work
I'm curious about the voter turnout. I realise AGS usually has it low for the awards in general, and there are many who champion the more obscure awards (Best Tutorial or Documentation, for example), but if we had something like less than 10 votes for a certain category, maybe we can skip it? And perhaps combine some of them as well?
I told myself I wouldn't discuss this matter or any other community related matter and rather concentrate on making AGSA a killer service but I'd just like to comment on one thing:
Quote from: Babar on Fri 03/01/2014 11:07:19
I'm curious about the voter turnout. I realise AGS usually has it low for the awards in general, and there are many who champion the more obscure awards (Best Tutorial or Documentation, for example), but if we had something like less than 10 votes for a certain category, maybe we can skip it? And perhaps combine some of them as well?
A good reason there will NEVER be many votes with the current system is that it is limited to forum users. I would think there are many many AGS game players that never have and never will register on the forums, and I feel this design is a flaw.. Sure this will then also raise the issue with commercial games which are likely to have more coverage outside of the AGS community, so my suggestion is to ask a group of people from the AGS community to take on the task on rethinking the system behind the awards and how to make it better all together for any future awards.
That's all from me for this thread, if anyone feels the need to comment on anything I just said etc I suggest sending me a PM.
How about two classes, with only 5 categories in each?
Like
Best commercial game
Best art in a commercial game
Best music in a commercial game
Best story in a commercial game
Best puzzles in a commercial game
Best free game
Best art in a free game
Best music in a free game
Best story in a free game
Best puzzles in a free game
Then we won't have to deal with dozens of obscure/redundant categories that nobody cares about, plus non-commercial games won't have to compete against commercial games, plus all commercial games won't have to fight for only one award.
PS:
I agree with Peder that not only AGSers should be able to vote, but if we open it up for the public, some sort of quick registration is probably in order - we don't want someone's 500 facebook friends popping in just to push a button.
Quote from: Andail on Fri 03/01/2014 12:50:01
How about two classes, with only 5 categories in each?
I like that, and I think there really are enough commercial AGS games by now to justify that step. Good idea!
+1 Andail.
You have my full support.
As for Primordia I am fine that it does enter this year awards. If a game has not competed on former years there shouldn't be a problem if a dev decides to enter the awards. If the game is any good it will get votes, if not it doesn't matter the year it was made. Marketing strategy is all around us and spending time and energy fighting it is pointless in my opinion.
However, we could have the community decide by voting if the rules should be changed or not. Maybe this way there wouldn't be any grudges left.
Personally, I think a game should only be eligible for the year it was released.
If we need a requirement, I'm not sure if the database entry should be necessary, but perhaps a Completed Game Announcement would be a better requirement. It seems sometimes people either forget about the database, or take their time getting around to it, but most people make an Announcement topic when their game is released. Then again, it might not be needed at all. Since we have this topic (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=49764.0), people could simply post in there that they are interested in eligibility for the awards, and if they meet the criteria, they're in!
About categories, I also think there are too many. I think we should keep the best Non-Adventure Game category. Other categories could be combined, as long as everyone understands what is included. For example, I like Best Sound over Best Music, because Sound would include Sound Effects and Voice Acting. I'd also like to see commercial games separated from free games. It could simply be the Best Commercial Game award, or it could be a complete split in categories. Either is fine.
So here's my idea of a list:
Best Free Game Created with AGS
Best Commercial Game Created with AGS
Best Gameplay (Puzzles, Programming)
Best Writing (Story, Dialogue)
Best Art (Background, Character, Animation)
Best Sound (Effects, Music, Voice)
Best Non-Adventure Game Created with AGS
Again, not sure if we need an entirely different set of categories for Commercial Games, but there should at least be a separation for the Best Game category.
Let's throw in some more suggestions, and then we can start a poll and settle it once and for all.
Quote from: Andail on Fri 03/01/2014 12:50:01
Best game overall
Best art
Best music
Best story
Best puzzles
Those are fine and make the main bulk.
In addition:
Best Non-Adventure: This really is a must (though probably more for the free than for the commercial games).
Best Programming: I always saw that as a nice nod towards making creative little effects, interesting GUIs and all. I'd like that to stay.
Quote from: dactylopus on Fri 03/01/2014 13:19:08
Personally, I think a game should only be eligible for the year it was released.
If we need a requirement, I'm not sure if the database entry should be necessary, but perhaps a Completed Game Announcement would be a better requirement. It seems sometimes people either forget about the database, or take their time getting around to it, but most people make an Announcement topic when their game is released. Then again, it might not be needed at all. Since we have this topic (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=49764.0), people could simply post in there that they are interested in eligibility for the awards, and if they meet the criteria, they're in!
About categories, I also think there are too many. I think we should keep the best Non-Adventure Game category. Other categories could be combined, as long as everyone understands what is included. For example, I like Best Sound over Best Music, because Sound would include Sound Effects and Voice Acting. I'd also like to see commercial games separated from free games. It could simply be the Best Commercial Game award, or it could be a complete split in categories. Either is fine.
So here's my idea of a list:
Best Free Game Created with AGS
Best Commercial Game Created with AGS
Best Gameplay (Puzzles, Programming)
Best Writing (Story, Dialogue)
Best Art (Background, Character, Animation)
Best Sound (Effects, Music, Voice)
Best Non-Adventure Game Created with AGS
Again, not sure if we need an entirely different set of categories for Commercial Games, but there should at least be a separation for the Best Game category.
I disagree.
We need an entirely different set of categories for Commercial Games too.
Because commercial games have better artists and they will win most of the awards left free games behind.
Quote from: Volcan on Fri 03/01/2014 14:12:42
I disagree.
We need an entirely different set of categories for Commercial Games too.
Because commercial games have better artists and they will win most of the awards left free games behind.
That works for me, too. I don't mind a complete separation, but I'd be happy as long as Best Game is separated.
Quote from: dactylopus on Fri 03/01/2014 13:19:08So here's my idea of a list:
I'm not seeing any issues with the current list of categories; we traditionally get sufficient and diverse votes for each. So I don't really see the point in reducing it. Perhaps we need to scrap one or two categories, but I think a proposal of "scrapping most of them" goes much too far.
I would make this dynamic depending on the number of commercial games released in the year. How many commercial games are elegible for the 2013 awards? TCL was 2012, right? Having primordia compete against itself in a commercial games categories is no fun. After all, all these games are made with AGS. But after reading that wadjet eye are planning to release 3 games this year (or something like that) and having hired a great full time artist, the 2014 awards could live on a special commercial category for all competitors to that and not make it impossible for hobbyist effort to go totally unnoticed and unrewarded.
Best Barn Runner Game (Short)
Best Barn Runner Game (Long)
Best Non-Barn Runner Game
Special Achievement In The Field Of Barn Runnering
:=
Also, I second Ghost's support for Best Non-Adventure and Best Programming. (nod)
Quote from: selmiak on Fri 03/01/2014 14:36:43
How many commercial games are elegible for the 2013 awards?
There seems to be at least 4!
Quote from: Volcan on Fri 03/01/2014 14:12:42
Because commercial games have better artists and they will win most of the awards left free games behind.
Again I just had to step in and post another comment...
This statement couldn't be further from the truth! Many of the FREE games have just as good if not even better artists than some commercial AGS games. And if this was to be a reason you might as well just make a whole different category for games that look good and games that don't...
Quote from: Radiant on Fri 03/01/2014 14:29:06
Quote from: dactylopus on Fri 03/01/2014 13:19:08So here's my idea of a list:
I'm not seeing any issues with the current list of categories; we traditionally get sufficient and diverse votes for each. So I don't really see the point in reducing it. Perhaps we need to scrap one or two categories, but I think a proposal of "scrapping most of them" goes much too far.
With this in mind, these are the categories I think could be dropped without too much issue:
Best Demo
Best Player Character
Best Non-Player Character
Best Tutorial or Documentation
I still think other categories could be combined, though. Maybe not to the extent that I recommended earlier, but some combinations wouldn't be unreasonable.
I personally like what Andail suggested, although maybe being introduced next year, when there are more commercial games? (can't think of a single one to be honest... but I'm sure there were some. Conspirocracy?)
One thing everyone should remember, is that commercial AGS games are still often made by one person or a very small group at most, and in most cases on no budget. The scope, the length, the graphics- that's down to the creator's effort and dedication, not shady deals with EA paying for robots to make the high res art for the game. They often start their life as free test-games only to grow bigger and bigger and eventually become commercial. And there's nothing dirty or unfair about it. Look at Cart Life- phenomenal idea followed by a phenomenal success! (and there's nothing expensive or shiny about this one)
At the same time, it's a thing of beauty that so many wonderful free games are being made by the community- the Unfolding Spider, Time Stone, Eternally Us... and many many more. AGS would not be the same without them. I understand they NEED recognition for what they achieve in their own way, as short stories that inspire with creativity and prove that you can make AGS a hobby, and don't necessarily have to say goodbye to your family and job to make them.
Sorry for ranting... ;)
And to add to Primordia issue (although it has been withdrawn, I know) as far as I understand it, it was released in 2012 (one day after me, how could I forget that!;))so... no. I personally don't think it's eligible.
Quote from: dactylopus on Fri 03/01/2014 15:21:49
Best Demo
Best Player Character
Best Non-Player Character
Best Tutorial or Documentation
Personally I really like the "best character" awards, and I think the "best tutorial" is good to encourage more people to have their games come with clear intructions (and reward those who have done so). I can certainly get behind dropping "best demo", though.
Quote from: Radiant on Fri 03/01/2014 15:26:44
Personally I really like the "best character" awards, and I think the "best tutorial" is good to encourage more people to have their games come with clear intructions (and reward those who have done so). I can certainly get behind dropping "best demo", though.
I agree. A good character or NPC can really make a game come alive. I'd hate to see those categories go away. :undecided:
Quote from: Radiant on Fri 03/01/2014 15:26:44
Quote from: dactylopus on Fri 03/01/2014 15:21:49
Best Demo
Best Player Character
Best Non-Player Character
Best Tutorial or Documentation
Personally I really like the "best character" awards, and I think the "best tutorial" is good to encourage more people to have their games come with clear intructions (and reward those who have done so). I can certainly get behind dropping "best demo", though.
They were just suggestions, as I felt they had the least to do with making the game itself. All of the awards have some merit. Which ones do you think are extraneous?
I am glad to see such discussion taking place. For the records: I look with favour to what dactylopus proposed (obviously changing the word "free" with "freeware", we don't want to anger Stallman).
To be honest I am against creating separate categories for commercial games, for the reasons m0ds illustrated, because we risk to have a year without many commercial releases (how many are there this year? Aren't they so few they are basically automatically in the short list of nominees) and because with less awards the mere fact of being nominated would be regarded as a great achievement.
As for stats, they are here (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=47401.msg636449554#msg636449554).
Re: vote turnout. One year I had to scrap an award (best documentation/tutorial) after the nomination phase because no games received the necessary 5 preferences.
As for opening the voting to non-members, mhhh maybe but we need to keep tampering at a minimum.
To whoever, for whichever reason disagrees with whatever: rest assured none of this will pass without a community vote.
Quote from: dactylopus on Fri 03/01/2014 15:21:49
Quote from: Radiant on Fri 03/01/2014 14:29:06
Quote from: dactylopus on Fri 03/01/2014 13:19:08So here's my idea of a list:
I'm not seeing any issues with the current list of categories; we traditionally get sufficient and diverse votes for each. So I don't really see the point in reducing it. Perhaps we need to scrap one or two categories, but I think a proposal of "scrapping most of them" goes much too far.
With this in mind, these are the categories I think could be dropped without too much issue:
Best Demo
Best Player Character
Best Non-Player Character
Best Tutorial or Documentation
I still think other categories could be combined, though. Maybe not to the extent that I recommended earlier, but some combinations wouldn't be unreasonable.
If the best demo is removed i'll remove my game from FYC topic.
The previous 2 years I had a small game out myself (although nowhere near award material) so I felt uncomfortable joining this discussion then, so I might as well join now. ;)
If I understand correctly in 2012 the rule was that a game had to be added to the database during that year. As far as I'm concerned that's an ok rule for all the reasons posted by others, but if it's decided that from now the release year will be leading, then at least this year we should allow the games that weren't eligible for that reason last year.
Developers of Primordia and bakesale games, and possibly others, were led to believe that their games were allowed in 2013 because that was the year they added the games to the db; so to change the rules to the effect that they would have been eligible in 2012 after all but not now strikes me as unfair.
In my view the freeware games and hobby-developers are the backbone of the AGS community and as much as I liked the commercial AGS-games, I felt, with all the coverage those already get in gaming sites, that the free efforts were more deserving of the extra attention. So I also support the idea of giving commercial games their own category (or categories).
BTW I would consider bakesale games and other games that only add a price to give it to charity not commercial.
Quote from: RadiantPersonally I really like the "best character" awards, and I think the "best tutorial" is good to encourage more people to have their games come with clear intructions (and reward those who have done so). I can certainly get behind dropping "best demo", though.
+1
I also like non-player character category. I think it's a fun, sort of reminds me of best supporting actor/actress in movies :)
Quote from: bicilotti on Fri 03/01/2014 06:40:11
Thanks for the inputs everyone!
The point I was asking opinions on is more specific, though.
In plain words, we face the case of a game which was released in 2012 but added to the DB way later (not just one or two days later, like SQII VGA, not because of technical problems as for some Bake Sale entries). I found it eligible for this year Awards but it seems a large majority is against this decision.
Since it is the first time this happens, it's appropriate to promptly decide on a general rule.
So please, clearly state your opinion on this circumscribed matter.
I would like to give my 2 cents about what bicilotti asked for.
Admitting a game released in another year to the AGS Awards is absolutely permissible, but the community must be careful and pay attention to one thing:
The awards are very famous, but not everyone knows how they work (I mean the players outside the community)
If the game we are talking about is very famous, everyone knows when it was released.
Everyone know because all the specialized sites talked about.
Community has to pay attention about that: the shadow of favoritism. This should not happen. People outside the community should not think that "AGS-site" promotes its AAA games, not making them compete each other (people outside don't know that it is a "users-decision").
So I think that it is absolutely permissible (I mean the admission to the awards), but the reason should be clear and explained well.
Alright, I've added a poll to guide us through these questions.
Note how there are 3 polls in 1 (each question having 3 options), which means you will only cast one vote per question. This instead of creating three different polls... I hope it's clear.
Voted. Thanks for setting it up, Andail!
Vote cast. That was quick, Andail, thanks a lot (nod)
A vote! A vote! How exciting. :-D
I voted.
I'd suggest to keep that current rules for 2013 games to be fair for everybody but change them for 2014 games.
Voted :grin:
Thanks for giving to us the decisional power.
Thank you Andail.
Whatever the decisions turn out it will be the community choice. Proud to be here.
Quote from: bicilotti on Fri 03/01/2014 10:54:40
Double post to assess this particular point: as I said adding the game to the database is the simplest way to state "deal me in, please". I have know at least one developer who purposely didn't add their game to the DB because they didn't want to be associated with the community (and I guess, with the Awards too). To sum sup: imho some kind of "submission rule" will be always needed, wherever you decide to technically draw the line.
Aaaaaand to restate a well known thought of mine: to prevent and counter the risk of inflation, we need less categories, not more!
I suppose this eventually boils down to the meaning we choose to give to the awards. Because for me the preferred meaning would be documentalistic: I'd like the awards to represent each year of AGS gaming through the perception of players as accurately as possible, and as such the wish of the author to be represented or not doesn't matter. Just like whether voters are registered on the forums doesn't matter (so I'm with Peder on this one and from this POV commercial games getting more voters isn't a downside, because it simply represents the reality). However, to some people the meaning is clearly more social and is about active participation of authors in the competition process and in the community. If you take it that way of course it all matters. I don't want to impose my preference on anyone, especially considering how this conflict of views is not trivially resolvable at all, but obviously I'll still advocate it.
As for categories, I don't mind them being numerous. Again, from my POV I'd prefer more information to less. And I'll still harp on about how we need Best Comedy one (my argument is if a game's strongest point is being genuinely very amusing without having neither a strong storyline or beautiful graphics it doesn't have a chance at recognition despite its high entertainment value). But most importantly, for the love of CJ, don't conjoin Best Voice Acting and Best Music into one category. Please just don't. Seriously. I really hope I don't have to explain why.
Best comedy and other genre awards isn't a bad idea, and it looks like most people want a plethora of awards so it probably won't be a problem.
I'm personally more worried about there being only one commercial award, seeing how my TSP might end up competing against games like Nellie Cootalot 2, Kathy Rain, the latest Blackwell iteration and whatever other titles WEG are pushing this year, probably resulting in not even a nomination for me :(
Quote from: Andail on Fri 03/01/2014 20:23:37
I'm personally more worried about there being only one commercial award, seeing how my TSP might end up competing against games like Nellie Cootalot 2, Kathy Rain, the latest Blackwell iteration and whatever other titles WEG are pushing this year, probably resulting in not even a nomination for me :(
Don't lose hope so soon, sir. With my vote, option 1 and 2 of First Question are tied. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for the second option. :)
Quote from: qptain Nemo on Fri 03/01/2014 04:19:11
Why? You mean you wouldn't want the competition to be as inclusive as possible without some games lost to arbitrary trivial technicalities? I know I would and I say that as a player not as a developer. If my favourite game got excluded that way and I wouldn't be able to vote for it, I'd be even more pissed than I am about PISS. (pun not intended) And now I recall I actually was really pissed about Primordia as well. Let me ask you too, why not? What exactly is there to lose by trying to represent AGS gaming as accurately as possible and including all games we're aware of?
I want it to be inclusive, but I don't see the problem with leaving it to the developers to make sure their game is eligible. If my favourite game didn't appear in the database, and therefore wasn't included in the awards, I'd be disappointed, sure. I'd also be curious as to why it wasn't in the database in the first place, seeing as that's how award eligibility has been determined for a number of years.
I'm sure that if enough people call for change, though, new award rules will be introduced in the future.
Quote from: qptain Nemo on Fri 03/01/2014 20:02:44
I suppose this eventually boils down to the meaning we choose to give to the awards. Because for me the preferred meaning would be documentalistic: I'd like the awards to represent each year of AGS gaming through the perception of players as accurately as possible, and as such the wish of the author to be represented or not doesn't matter.
I disagree with this, only in so much as that I don't think a set of awards is the best way of achieving this. But as it stands, the awards
are all about community to me, and as such should require the active participation (at least initially) of nominees.
EDIT: Voted.
The bigger question still remains: Are we having the ceremony in the IRC channel (i.e. the friendly but run down community center in the bad, low rent part of town), or are we going to return to the posh and luxurious AGS Theater, the shiny jewel in the glittering heart of the city?
I VOTE THEATER! (nod)
Quote from: LimpingFish on Fri 03/01/2014 22:45:07
I want it to be inclusive, but I don't see the problem with leaving it to the developers to make sure their game is eligible. If my favourite game didn't appear in the database, and therefore wasn't included in the awards, I'd be disappointed, sure. I'd also be curious as to why it wasn't in the database in the first place, seeing as that's how award eligibility has been determined for a number of years.
Well the problem is that it's not as clean cut as we'd like it to be. Sometimes the lack of presence in the database is a meaningful choice as you say. But sometimes it's not at all. It may be just an oversight (and one that may be too late to fix too even if the author wants to). Or reluctance to include a commercial game because there would be no free download for it. And the database does pose as a database of downloadable AGS games first and is only retrofitted to serve the awards second, which as far as I know actually discouraged developers from adding their games to the database for that reason. Yes, in most cases it indeed just works. But again, sometimes it becomes conflating meaningful choice with trivial mistakes and limitations of the system in place.
Quote from: LimpingFish on Fri 03/01/2014 22:45:07
I disagree with this, only in so much as that I don't think a set of awards is the best way of achieving this.
*shrug* Perhaps, but I still definitely find it appealing and interesting enough.
Quote from: Ponch on Fri 03/01/2014 23:13:55
I VOTE THEATER! (nod)
Me too. I'm even considering doing something to that effect, especially seeing as no one did the last time. I'm not making any promises of any sort whatsoever yet though.
Quote from: qptain Nemo on Fri 03/01/2014 23:34:54
Quote from: Ponch on Fri 03/01/2014 23:13:55
I VOTE THEATER! (nod)
Me too. I'm even considering doing something to that effect, especially seeing as no one did the last time. I'm not making any promises of any sort whatsoever yet though. !
Awesome! Best news I've heard all day! Thanks for promising to do this! :cheesy:
edit: after a brief chat on IRC, I am questioning whether a community vote is the appropriate way of settling this (or any other matter, for what it is worth); of the online communities I am member of, the most thriving ones operate mostly by do-ocracy and consensus.
Below is my original post:
Spoiler
Thanks for setting this up Andail, voted.
The forum poll has problems though (being a forum poll):
- There is no way to express ranked preferences, hence failing the Condorcet criterion (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Condorcet_criterion) (in simple words: a selection might be the most voted but still lose in a head-to-head comparison). This is especially significant for question number two. If we end up with (example):
- 7 votes for keeping the same numbers of awards
- 5 for reducing them to ten
- 4 for reducing the number to half
There is a strong possibility that in a run-off option B would beat option A. I sense the same problem for question # 1 - Answers are not orthogonal (i.e. mutually exclusive, see question 3). There is some 'bleed-over' from question 1 to question 2 too (i.e. there is a clash should "keep numbers of categories low (around 5)" and "separate commercial class with several awards" both win)
- Maybe when there is a voting on rules (as opposed to a voting on persons/games), expressing preferences should be overt and possibly motivated (example from a very controversial ratification procedure (http://www.r6rs.org/ratification/results.html))
Nitpicking much? Probably. Do I want to end up with something complicated like this (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwartz_method)? Not necessarily.
But as we are evolving as a community and ask the community to get involved, our decisional tools should be the best suited to attain participation, inclusion and technical merit.
edit II: unrelated, but thanks qptain & Limpin' for your interesting back and forth.
I voted. It's interesting to see the breakdown of votes.
Quote from: bicilotti on Sat 04/01/2014 01:03:43
edit: after a brief chat on IRC, I am questioning whether a community vote is the appropriate way of settling this (or any other matter, for what it is worth); of the online communities I am member of, the most thriving ones operate mostly by do-ocracy and consensus.
That's a good point. Well, we're not voting to "ratify" a new "award policy"; we're polling to see what the relative support of various options are, and it strikes me that the poll gives a clearer outline of that than the earlier discussion. And luckily, some issues that may come up in theory have in this particular case not turned out in practice. Based on the poll and thread, I believe there's a strong consensus on the third question (release date vs addition date), and that the consensual outcome for the second question (amount of categories) may well be to keep the current categories but discuss dropping/combining a few individual categories, i.e. a gradual change instead of a sweeping one. The main issue that apparently has no consensus is the first (commercial game categorization), so that would need further debate. Let's give it a few more days, of course, and then have further discussion on the issues that aren't settled yet.
Quote from: Radiant on Sat 04/01/2014 07:31:49
The main issue that apparently has no consensus is the first (commercial game categorization), so that would need further debate. Let's give it a few more days, of course, and then have further discussion on the issues that aren't settled yet.
ORLY? Looks like (atm) 8 people want the same awards for commercial and freeware games while (atm) 33 people want seperate awards for commercial and freeware games. The tendency seems very clear to me, maybe have another vote between 1 catagory and many categories for commercial games where the 8 people voting against separation now can vote for what they think is the least evil. Less categories for commercial games is less clicky clicky when voting, but more categories honour different aspects of diffent games, and there are variations even in commercial games ;) When there are more commercial games coming imho it's nice to have some competition there too and look at the broad scope of games and what they have to offer too.
Quote from: selmiak on Sat 04/01/2014 13:22:49
ORLY? Looks like (atm) 8 people want the same awards for commercial and freeware games while (atm) 33 people want seperate awards for commercial and freeware games. The tendency seems very clear to me,
Yes, there is a clear answer to the question of "should the awards make a distinction between free and commercial games". There is (as far as I can tell) no consensus yet on
how exactly to do that, hence my suggestion that it needs more discussion.
Damn, I've been ignoring this discussion at my peril!
My top two cents:
There should be one single Best Game award for each year! Whatever we do about commercial and free games, I think there really must be a "top" prize, the one game we as a community hold up as the best thing created with AGS.
Games that missed the database submission in 2012 were explicitly told that they could compete in 2013. Whether or not this way of doing it is the best, it would be extremely unfair to disqualify them now.
Additional cents...
Categories in general:- The many categories is part of the charm of the AGS awards, and an opportunity to honor oddball achievements. But this is probably incompatible with splitting every category into commercial and free.
- Should we add an award for best mobile/tablet (iPad/Android) release? There aren't that many of them (explicit platform ports rather than games that can run with ports of the engine, I mean), and they're mostly Wadjet Eye titles, but this is such an important part of the future of adventure gaming.
- I feel like I say this every year, but "Best Gameplay" is a confusing and vague category, and I'm not convinced different people interpret it at all the same. To me it's "the experience of playing the game, as determined by the balance of puzzles, exploration and other challenges and in-game activities", CaptainD couldn't tell it apart from "Best Game", and bicilotti's explanation sounds to me like "Best UI".
- In addition to the game awards, we should still have the Lifetime Achievement and Innovation awards, obviously.
Commercial/free categories:- I tend to agree with m0ds that the awards are for honoring things made with AGS, and that separating commercial and freeware games is irrelevant to that purpose. Also, the separation isn't necessarily clean: You have commercial games that are later released for free (the Bakesale games, for example), free games that go commercial (The Shivah, The Journey Down - though not in AGS), games that raise voluntary donations through Kickstarter, IndieGogo or Paypal in order to fund a proper "commercial" development budget...
- The number of commercial releases in any given year may not support having them compete in a whole set of independent categories, particularly if we keep the number of categories high. For this reason, I don't think the idea of splitting each category in two is workable.
- I don't like the idea of disqualifying commercial games from every category except a special "Best Commercial Game" one. I think it would diminish the value of the other awards if some of the best games couldn't compete. Instead, if we're worried about commercial games squeezing out the free ones, how about just one category set aside for freeware games: "Best Free Game"?
Eligibility:- I personally think we should use database submission date as the qualifying criterion for nomination, since it gives us a "definite list" of released games to choose nominations from. If we don't like the idea of games being added to the database to compete years after the original release, we could add a rule that they are only eligible in the year they were originally released or the following one.
- We need to require accounts for voting, because otherwise there's no telling the kind of ballot-box stuffing there might be. (And we the mods should probably keep an eye on suspicious voting patterns to see if there are any handpuppets taking part.)
I feel strangely compelled to agree with Snarky, probably mostly because of his usage of varying font sizes and bullet point lists.
Quote from: Snarky on Sat 04/01/2014 15:23:52
Damn, I've been ignoring this discussion at my peril!
My top two cents:
There should be one single Best Game award for each year! Whatever we do about commercial and free games, I think there really must be a "top" prize, the one game we as a community hold up as the best thing created with AGS.
Games that missed the database submission in 2012 were explicitly told that they could compete in 2013. Whether or not this way of doing it is the best, it would be extremely unfair to disqualify them now.
Additional cents...
Categories in general:
- The many categories is part of the charm of the AGS awards, and an opportunity to honor oddball achievements. But this is probably incompatible with splitting every category into commercial and free.
- Should we add an award for best mobile/tablet (iPad/Android) release? There aren't that many of them (explicit platform ports rather than games that can run with ports of the engine, I mean), and they're mostly Wadjet Eye titles, but this is such an important part of the future of adventure gaming.
- I feel like I say this every year, but "Best Gameplay" is a confusing and vague category, and I'm not convinced different people interpret it at all the same. To me it's "the experience of playing the game, as determined by the balance of puzzles, exploration and other challenges and in-game activities", CaptainD couldn't tell it apart from "Best Game", and bicilotti's explanation sounds to me like "Best UI".
- In addition to the game awards, we should still have the Lifetime Achievement and Innovation awards, obviously.
Commercial/free categories:
- I tend to agree with m0ds that the awards are for honoring things made with AGS, and that separating commercial and freeware games is irrelevant to that purpose. Also, the separation isn't necessarily clean: You have commercial games that are later released for free (the Bakesale games, for example), free games that go commercial (The Shivah, The Journey Down - though not in AGS), games that raise voluntary donations through Kickstarter, IndieGogo or Paypal in order to fund a proper "commercial" development budget...
- The number of commercial releases in any given year may not support having them compete in a whole set of independent categories, particularly if we keep the number of categories high. For this reason, I don't think the idea of splitting each category in two is workable.
- I don't like the idea of disqualifying commercial games from every category except a special "Best Commercial Game" one. I think it would diminish the value of the other awards if some of the best games couldn't compete. Instead, if we're worried about commercial games squeezing out the free ones, how about just one category set aside for freeware games: "Best Free Game"?
Eligibility:
- I personally think we should use database submission date as the qualifying criterion for nomination, since it gives us a "definite list" of released games to choose nominations from. If we don't like the idea of games being added to the database to compete years after the original release, we could add a rule that they are only eligible in the year they were originally released or the following one.
- We need to require accounts for voting, because otherwise there's no telling the kind of ballot-box stuffing there might be. (And we the mods should probably keep an eye on suspicious voting patterns to see if there are any handpuppets taking part.)
We're talking about games they are released. The authors won't change their mind to turn their games as freeware/commercial than much later, maybe one year after their release.
IF a game in 2013 is a commercial and become freeware in 2014, the game will count like a commercial since it's a commercial game in 2013.
Quote from: Volcan on Sat 04/01/2014 15:54:42We're talking about games they are released. The authors won't change their mind to turn their games as freeware/commercial than much later, maybe one year after their release.
IF a game in 2013 is a commercial and become freeware in 2014, the game will count like a commercial since it's a commercial game in 2013.
Oh, I don't know. I seem to remember The Shivah became commercial within a few months of its freeware release.
Quote from: Andail on Sat 04/01/2014 15:49:35
I feel strangely compelled to agree with Snarky, probably mostly because of his usage of varying font sizes and bullet point lists.
Attempt to emphasize main points and avoid "tl;dr", or timecube-like rantings of incipient lunacy?
You be THE JUDGE!!!
I think that if games that missed the database in 2012 were explicitly told that they could compete in 2013, then community should change the rules starting from next year. This is fair and reasonable.
Quick question...what's the purpose of our AGS awards?
I ask only because their purpose changes how we should run the awards themselves. If the purpose is to...
- have a bit of fun and award community members...then we might decide that more awards are great, and be more inclusive of games that might blur the line between this year and last year.
- give an air of prestige to award winners for their hard work...then we might decide less awards are the way to go, and be more strict in our rules
- a mix of both...then we will constantly be having these discussions to find the happy balance between meaningful awards and a bit of fun (this is probably the one we're most closely aligned with, right now).
By nailing down what we expect these awards to drive, I think it will help us to decide how best to tackle these issues.
Quotehow about just one category set aside for freeware games: "Best Free Game"?
After giving some thought I did support this option earlier on this discussion. Like Snarky says it is a clean way out of things.
Having this category we aren't "punishing" devs for making commercial games.
I have to make a premise. Despite having been a member of this community for about nine years, I've rarely been very active. My post count is 320 and 90% of those posts I've made in the first couple of years. I've received probably more than I've given back, but independently from that I care for this community. I never voted nor participated in the Awards though, and I've never followed the results or the discussions about them. This is the first time I do, and the reason is someone asked me if my game was going to enter the competition or not and linked me to this and other posts. I don't like celebrations, usually, no matter if they're related to Cinema, to Music or to Games. Competition isn't just my style, I guess.
I ignored there were rules to be allowed in, and I've found I'm not even eligible. I didn't add the game to the database, but mostly because of laziness and not because I don't care for the community: I don't think that omission can be considered as such, anyway. But I doubt that I would have entered if I could. I'm against having a "Best Demo" category, and my game is more of a demo than a complete game (though none of the two).
Having cleared that I haven't got a personal interest in the competition, and all the rest, I find the discussion interesting and I feel expressing my thoughts can be a way to give something back to the community.
Admission to the Awards' Rules: any set of rule is fine (more or less), and it's mostly a matter of choosing one and
don't allow exceptions. Rules suck, I know! But they help keeping the competition fair and the protests to a minimum. The only rule I feel the need to point out as completely nonsense would be giving precedence to the insertion date instead of the release date. Someone already pointed that out, but it just seems... illogical.
Commercial vs. Free: it all depends on the aim of the Awards. Most of the solutions and considerations I've read in this topic make perfect sense, as a matter of fact. In my opinion, if the aim is to celebrate games made with AGS, the fact they are commercial or not is irrelevant. On the other hand, if we want to focus on the indie, amateurish, "out of passion" aspects, then some kind of distinction is necessary.
Commercial games are not necessarily better than Free games, not even in some aspects that could certainly thrive from having money to be spent on (graphics, for example). A lot of AGS commercial games have graphics that are worse than some free ones, and some of them even have what I'd call "bad looking graphics" in an absolute sense. I won't make examples, but I have a long list in my mind.
It's also true that most AGS commercial games are just the efforts of small teams, but the problem is "commercial has no limits". If Tim Schafer one day decides to use AGS to make a game, wouldn't that be great as both a recognition to the engine's usability and the AGS fame? But would the resulting game be an honest competitor of other titles? Probably not.
Also, two alternative and mutually exclusive scenarios that might be worth considering are:
- There's a decent number (the exact amount of which has to be agreed upon) of commercial games: in this case, let's keep two (almost) identical sets of awards for the two macro-categories (Commercial and Free). Voting doesn't require so much time, after all, and the data we can collect can help make a better decision in the future. What I mean by this last sentence is that if the Commercial Categories get just a few global votes, then they're probably not even worth being there.
- There's a very low number of commercial games: I'd suggest to exclude commercial games from the awards once and for all OR leave just the "Best Commercial Game" as a special "exception".
Amount and nature of Categories: I'm generally inclined towards the most variety possible, but I think the crucial thing is to avoid categories that overlap one another, except for "Best Game" (which, however, might simply be the game with the most awards). The reason I'd remove the "Best Demo" is that it seems unnecessary, and is not even an incentive at finishing the game (the exact opposite, probably). Things like "Best Comedy" overlap a lot of other categories and so seem bad as well. The only doubts goes towards "Non Adventure Game", but all in all it could be discarded as well. If we value the fact that it's made with AGS, then a game is a game is a game.
I'd keep all the other existing ones, and NEVER EVER put together sfx, music and voice-acting. They're so unrelated I can't even think of a reason why they should be inside a single category.
"Best Documentation" seems very important to me because, as someone already noticed, it's a stimulus to refine an aspect that's often neglected despite it's importance.
"Best Programming" seems just natural, as that is a crucial aspect in making a game good, much more than most of the others, I dare to say.
I hope we keep the best non-adventure category. Some really good games have been made in that style.
Quote from: Abisso on Sat 04/01/2014 18:55:55The only rule I feel the need to point out as completely nonsense would be giving precedence to the insertion date instead of the release date. Someone already pointed that out, but it just seems... illogical.
Using the games db to determine eligibility has some real practical advantages: It's one easy place to see all the games that could be nominated, it provides ready-to-use game profiles, screenshots and download links for players who want to check out the candidates, it makes it easy to make an awards page afterwards, and so on. If we agree that candidates should be in the database, the only question is whether the creators have to create the game profile within a certain deadline (in the past we've given them a grace period into January, I seem to remember), or whether the organizers should unilaterally add games that haven't been submitted.
I would be against the latter, because as you mention, some people might not want to compete. I guess the other part of the question is whether games that were released in one year but added to the database later should be eligible at all. I would say yes (possibly only within reason), because it seems unfair that just because someone didn't submit to the DB right away, their game would never be eligible at all.
Quote from: Abisso on Sat 04/01/2014 18:55:55It's also true that most AGS commercial games are just the efforts of small teams, but the problem is "commercial has no limits". If Tim Schafer one day decides to use AGS to make a game, wouldn't that be great as both a recognition to the engine's usability and the AGS fame? But would the resulting game be an honest competitor of other titles? Probably not.
If Tim Schafer made an AGS game and it was the best AGS game that year, why wouldn't we want it to win? In fact, wouldn't it be absurd, even perverse to exclude it?
Anyway, it's a moot point. Maybe commercial has no limits, but sadly, AGS does. Double Fine would never make an AGS game (other than maybe as a lark); not even the smaller Kickstarter projects like Larry Reloaded or Cognition seriously consider the engine. And it's not just for the obvious reasons like the limited resolutions and platform support; it's things like not taking real advantage of hardware acceleration (leading to poor performance on more graphically intensive games), outdated library stack, savegames breaking between game updates, lack of Unicode support (and layout-independent keyboard controls) for internationalization, limited support for source control and multiple coders, not dealing properly with the access-control security model in recent Windows versions, nonstandard scripting language with limited debug tools, and a project format with a binary sprite file that makes it necessary to manually re-import sprites each time they're updated. I mean, CW is doing a great job bringing AGS up to date, but this is not something that will be fully resolved any time soon, and pretty much every one of those issues is by itself enough to exclude it from consideration within bigger game dev studios. AGS was designed as a tool for small/one-person development teams, and as far as commercial projects go, it's going to be small indie teams mainly from within the AGS community for the foreseeable future.
Quote from: Snarky on Sat 04/01/2014 20:21:37
Using the games db to determine eligibility has some real practical advantages: It's one easy place to see all the games that could be nominated, it provides ready-to-use game profiles, screenshots and download links for players who want to check out the candidates, it makes it easy to make an awards page afterwards, and so on. If we agree that candidates should be in the database, the only question is whether the creators have to create the game profile within a certain deadline (in the past we've given them a grace period into January, I seem to remember), or whether the organizers should unilaterally add games that haven't been submitted.
I would be against the latter, because as you mention, some people might not want to compete. I guess the other part of the question is whether games that were released in one year but added to the database later should be eligible at all. I would say yes (possibly only within reason), because it seems unfair that just because someone didn't submit to the DB right away, their game would never be eligible at all.
I agree that the game database has its advantages: this wasn't the focus of my statement. I was just pointing out that the release date seems a much more logical choice if we have to set a rule for allowance. This doesn't mean there can't be extra rules, like, for example, the need to manually insert the game into the database. It doesn't seem very "necessary", though, and I believe the Awards would make more sense if they were independent from the author's will.
As a matter of fact, you misinterpreted my explanation about the reasons I probably wouldn't take part even if I could. I don't think it's an added value being able to decide if our own game must (or must not) be a competitor. If the game has been made with AGS (according this is the most important thing when it comes to the Awards) then it should be in by default, probably. Or at least being potentially nominated by someone else as well, be he a fan, another game-maker, a mod.
The author could be then free to "dis-attend" the ceremony and even ignore it completely, but this should be unrelated from the fact the product takes part. Just my 2 cents, of course, nothing objective.
Quote from: Snarky on Sat 04/01/2014 20:21:37
If Tim Schafer made an AGS game and it was the best AGS game that year, why wouldn't we want it to win? In fact, wouldn't it be absurd, even perverse to exclude it?
Maybe because with 3.000.000$ even a mountain gorilla would be able to do one of the best AGS game of the year? I'm not saying money creates good games by default, but you can surely afford to pay competent people to achieve a very good result. Not necessarily the best, but surely an (unfairly) good candidate.
With as "little" as about 10.000$ anyone could provide his game with top quality 2D graphics, for example. And I say that with 50.000$ you can create excellency in almost any aspect. But who would spend thousands of his own bucks to produce a non-commercial game? Sure, there are exceptions, and that's great! When you believe so much in a project that you're willing to spend money and time without any possible earning, it means you really believe in what you're doing.
Anyway, there will probably be more "medium-budget" free-games in the future, as crowdfunding allows reasonably low amounts of money to be raised quite easily.
And wait a minute... isn't Larry Reloaded the revamped version of the 1st LSL whose Al Lowe is working on? Are you calling that "smaller" with Double Fine as a comparison, or in a more generic sense? Cause I remember Al was asking for something like several hundreds of thousands of bucks for that. An amount with one zero more than what was necessary, definitely.
All this has made me reflect on something though... probably what matters most is the budget the game has required, not the fact it's commercial or not.
Of course, I repeat that if the only relevant fact is that the game has been made using AGS, then any game should be allowed as a participant. That's a possibility, for sure. Is there something like a Foundation Act, or the original discussions around the AGS Awards? What was its original spirit / objective? It doesn't have to stay unmodified forever, of course, but it could be a good starting point.
Quote from: Snarky on Sat 04/01/2014 20:21:37
Anyway, it's a moot point. Maybe commercial has no limits, but sadly, AGS does. Double Fine would never make an AGS game (other than maybe as a lark); not even the smaller Kickstarter projects like Larry Reloaded or Cognition seriously consider the engine. And it's not just for the obvious reasons like the limited resolutions and platform support; it's things like not taking real advantage of hardware acceleration (leading to poor performance on more graphically intensive games), outdated library stack, savegames breaking between game updates, lack of Unicode support (and layout-independent keyboard controls) for internationalization, limited support for source control and multiple coders, not dealing properly with the access-control security model in recent Windows versions, nonstandard scripting language with limited debug tools, and a project format with a binary sprite file that makes it necessary to manually re-import sprites each time they're updated. I mean, CW is doing a great job bringing AGS up to date, but this is not something that will be fully resolved any time soon, and pretty much every one of those issues is by itself enough to exclude it from consideration within bigger game dev studios. AGS was designed as a tool for small/one-person development teams, and as far as commercial projects go, it's going to be small indie teams mainly from within the AGS community for the foreseeable future.
Hey... don't talk about my friend like that! :(
But hey, I see your point and can't deny you're somewhat right. Is there an adventure-game engine that has produced more games than AGS so far, anyway? I'm honestly curious to know.
But I'm going off topic now.
Quote from: Abisso on Sat 04/01/2014 22:09:06
I'm not saying money creates good games by default, but you can surely afford to pay competent people to achieve a very good result. Not necessarily the best, but surely an (unfairly) good candidate.
But how can any game be unfairly good? That means,literally, that after reaching a certain quality, I should feel really really bad about submitting my game because it could win!
Quote from: Ghost on Sat 04/01/2014 22:27:37
Quote from: Abisso on Sat 04/01/2014 22:09:06
I'm not saying money creates good games by default, but you can surely afford to pay competent people to achieve a very good result. Not necessarily the best, but surely an (unfairly) good candidate.
But how can any game be unfairly good? That means,literally, that after reaching a certain quality, I should feel really really bad about submitting my game because it could win!
Let's make an example to make my point more clear. A graduation / degree thesis for your Physics degree. You can pay Stephen Hawking 1.000.000$ to do that for you, or you can do that by yourself. If you choose the first option, and then the University is so happy with the resulting thesis that decides to publish it instead of another one did by a single student with his hard work, can you be proud of yourself? This is what I call being "unfairly good".
Another example: would it make sense to allow a Ferrari to compete in a race against home-made cars?
But, once again, the point is if we only care for the final result, or if we care for other aspects as well. Either is acceptable, according that there's a convergence of opinions, but the choice is not irrelevant.
Quote from: Abisso on Sat 04/01/2014 22:36:41
Another example: would it make sense to allow a Ferrari to compete in a race against home-made cars?
I see your point but it doesn't hold up. In this case, we have people with pretty much the same background competing, using the SAME ENGINE. The defining quality of a great AGS games can never be the engine but the skill I have at using it within its limits.
Pitting (for the sake of example) my own Chance of the Dead against a commercial AGS game like, say, Primordia *is* fair game, because both games were made by semiprofessionals. It's more like putting two home-made cars against each other
where one of the drivers simply has more skill at driving.
Pitting the same Chance of the Dead against (again, for the sake of example) Deponia, that would be unfair. Deponia has the better engine, a huge team with years of experience, and so forth. That'd be Ferrari against mode-made cart. (Just to make it clear, Deponia would be the Ferrari!)
Stratifying commercial games unfairly assumes that they're all made with meaningful commercial budgets. We retail Conspirocracy, but it was made with $1000 and a blowtorch, and almost of the revenue went straight to charity as promised. In spite of that, we're lumped in the same category as anything Double Fine makes, rather than the category of something like Donald Dowell or Breakage, which we'd feel more akin to. I'm willing to accept that, but I don't think it represents anything close to the reality of our situation. I would prefer this competition to be all-inclusive, so we can avoid such categorization and focus on the important thing -- showing off the great things that can be done with this engine.
Or we can get really into this sh*t and start putting games into tiered divisions.
Quote from: AprilSkies on Sat 04/01/2014 17:59:52
I think that if games that missed the database in 2012 were explicitly told that they could compete in 2013, then community should change the rules starting from next year. This is fair and reasonable.
Could Bicilotti and Dualnames please confirm this is the case, because their earlier remarks in this thread don't mention this? As far as I'm aware no public statements have been made about this a year ago.
See, the issue I have with the database entry date is that people have been known to make mistakes with that in the past, whereas the release date is a plain and simple fact. If anything, we sometimes adjust the database date to match the release date; clearly it's not possible to change a game's release date afterwards. So the release date is the most straightforward approach; everything else is bookkeeping. And bookkeeping is important, mind you, but bookkeeping keeps track of the facts, not the other way around.
Imma de-notify myself from this. :grin:
As far as I remembered the eligibility was the date. I asked bici in irc if that's still true, he said yes, I explained the situation, he said fine by him, i added the game to the database to win all the awards and then brag about it on my twitter.
Quote from: Abisso on Sat 04/01/2014 22:09:06
Maybe because with 3.000.000$ even a mountain gorilla would be able to do one of the best AGS game of the year?
No, a $3 mill. mountain gorilla might be able to
fund one of the best AGS games. Talented people would still have to do the work.
Quote from: Abisso on Sat 04/01/2014 22:36:41
Let's make an example to make my point more clear. A graduation / degree thesis for your Physics degree. You can pay Stephen Hawking 1.000.000$ to do that for you, or you can do that by yourself. If you choose the first option, and then the University is so happy with the resulting thesis that decides to publish it instead of another one did by a single student with his hard work, can you be proud of yourself? This is what I call being "unfairly good".
I might not have much to be proud of, but Stephen Hawking would. The analogy is inexact: It's more like I used the money to found a research institute, hire Stephen Hawking, and then the work he does gets published instead of other,
less good work. There's nothing unfair about it whatsoever.
The AGS awards are awarded for the work. If a mountain gorilla or physics student hired talented people to do good work, then the credit properly goes to them. Even if I hired the best artists, writers, coders and game designers in the world to make a game for me, any AGS awards it won would not say "Winner: Snarky"; they would go to
the game. A game that, in the end, I did not actually make.
But again, this discussion is besides the point, because we're not actually competing against million-dollar projects made by ringers. Even our professionals are indies. If some people or teams have an advantage (besides natural talent), it's mostly one they've made for themselves by just working hard and taking a chance on adventure game making as a real career.
Quote from: Abisso on Sat 04/01/2014 22:09:06Is there an adventure-game engine that has produced more games than AGS so far, anyway?
Games in general? Almost certainly not, there are more than a thousand known AGS games. Commercial games? Well, all told there's a fair number of commercial AGS games so far (a couple of dozen, maybe?), but it seems likely that some companies' proprietary engines exceed it. There's SCUMM (used by LucasArts and Humongous) and AGI/SCI (the Sierra engines), obviously. Probably whatever the Nancy Drew games use. In terms of publicly available engines, a number of commercial games (like Deponia) use Visionaire (http://www.visionaire-studio.net/cms/adventure-game-engine.html). And if you count Japanese-style games like Phoenix Wright, there are probably hundreds made in the most popular visual novel engines (I only know Ren'Py (http://www.renpy.org/)).
(Ooops, sorry for the double-post!)
Quote from: Radiant on Sat 04/01/2014 23:28:42
Could Bicilotti and Dualnames please confirm this is the case, because their earlier remarks in this thread don't mention this? As far as I'm aware no public statements have been made about this a year ago.
For example, check out this post, where bicilotti says "
Patchwork and Cosmos Quest will have to
wait until next year." (my emphasis): http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=47401.msg636444154#msg636444154
(I didn't remember the bit about the Bake Sale games having been exempt from the restriction. Which just seems like a needless complication, and changes the rule from a technical requirement to something like a subjective judgment on whether games have a good excuse for not being in the database.)
Quote from: Radiant on Sat 04/01/2014 23:28:42
See, the issue I have with the database entry date is that people have been known to make mistakes with that in the past, whereas the release date is a plain and simple fact. If anything, we sometimes adjust the database date to match the release date; clearly it's not possible to change a game's release date afterwards. So the release date is the most straightforward approach; everything else is bookkeeping. And bookkeeping is important, mind you, but bookkeeping keeps track of the facts, not the other way around.
I don't mean this as sophistry, but
is the release date a plain and simple fact? I know at least one well-known AGS game (No-Action Jackson) that was never officially released: the version everyone plays was labeled a beta. Other games are released in a pretty unplayable state and then patched later. (Or for another example, what if you had released Heroine's Quest without voices in 2013, and then added a voice pack later on in 2014? For the VO category, how should the game be counted? ... Not that going by db dates makes that any simpler, of course.)
Unless you post an announcement on the forums, there's no real independent way to verify in retrospect when a game was released, either. (If you just put it up on your website, for example.)
Quote from: Snarky on Sun 05/01/2014 00:16:19(I didn't remember the bit about the Bake Sale games having been exempt from the restriction. Which just seems like a needless complication, and changes the rule from a technical requirement to something like a subjective judgment on whether games have a good excuse for not being in the database.)
That's not subjective though, that means that for these games (as with Space Quest IIv), the eligibility criterion used was its release date (and, as per the poll above, a clear supermajority of the community supports this).
Indeed, it strikes me that in the past, whenever going by database date has been problematic, the issue was resolved by using release date instead! So based on that, I would say it's a good plan to use release date as the official criterion in the first place.
QuoteI don't mean this as sophistry, but is the release date a plain and simple fact? I know at least one well-known AGS game (No-Action Jackson) that was never officially released: the version everyone plays was labeled a beta.
Sorry, but NAJ was posted in the Completed Game Announcements forum by its author, so there's a clear timestamp from that. I don't see how a post in CGA wouldn't count as a release. I'm sure there might be an exception or two, but generally speaking a game's release date is an easily provable fact. We're not looking for big granularity here, we just want to know the year; the question is not whether this system is
perfect, but whether it's preferable to going by database date.
Quote(Or for another example, what if you had released Heroine's Quest without voices in 2013, and then added a voice pack later on in 2014?
There is actually precedent for this: the game would be eligible for most awards in 2013, and for "best voice acting" in 2014. That doesn't strike me as problematic as long as we're going by release date (in this case it's not even possible to go by database date, since the db doesn't keep dates for voice packs).
This is a silly discussion, frankly. Basically, we should let WHOEVER is the nice guy around and hosts the AGS awards to decide. Imagine if we had the same discussion about MAGS when I took it to its great game-frenzy making form. MAGS would still be about making a game a month, wait for the next month to vote, then make another. And that gave the ability to increase deadlines.
So, if we could please end this. Like the MAGS, the AGS awards should have one ruler, that should decide on all the bets, and that's the host, and there has been no respect towards that.
The host of the awards is what makes the awards what they are. If it wasn't bici, there wouldn't be an AGS irc ceremony game, the awards wouldn't be so organized and bicilotti wouldn't feel so drained. He has done a terrific job trying to keep controversy and be a just coordinator of the awards. I know putting Primordia may have been a wrong choice, but the team felt really stupid, when we forgot to last year, so I put it up and thought why not put it for nominations. It's not an attempt to get awards, it's an attempt to let people vote for it. If I cared about awards, the game would have been added to the database already, and I wouldn't bother spending time to fix bugs and go through feedback along with Wormwood studios.
Me, Mark Yohalem and Victor Pflug, along with Dave Gilbert, Nathaniel Chambers, and everyone that worked on this, worked hard to get a game done. I spent 2.5 years of my life coding. I didn't do it to get AGS awards.
I foresee the classic "Janitor walks in and solves the problematic equation on the scientist's board" scenario occurring any day now.
I posted a gentle reminder in the main Primordia game thread back in January; should have put that in the FYC thread instead. :-\
Quote from: Dualnames on Sun 05/01/2014 02:52:59
This is a silly discussion, frankly. Basically, we should let WHOEVER is the nice guy around and hosts the AGS awards to decide. Imagine if we had the same discussion about MAGS when I took it to its great game-frenzy making form. MAGS would still be about making a game a month, wait for the next month to vote, then make another. And that gave the ability to increase deadlines.
So, if we could please end this. Like the MAGS, the AGS awards should have one ruler, that should decide on all the bets, and that's the host, and there has been no respect towards that.
It's fine that Bici can have the final say on a few things, and we're all thankful for his efforts, but why is it so odd that the community can help discuss the format and the rules?
These are prestigious awards, let's not pretend they don't matter.
"One ruler", with some sort of indisputable power to decide things, never works!
this isn't North Korea!And you can't compare this with Mags for vey obvious reasons. All this said, Dualnames, I think most people here, including me, have said that Primorida should be allowed to run this year, since you didn't think release dates mattered back then.
PS:
There's a rumpus thread over here (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=49781.0), so let's keep this thread non-rumpus!
If the makers of Primordia and other games were told that they would be eligible this year, I see no reason to exclude them. That said, I think that the release date should take precedence in the future, but that entry to the database could still be a requirement.
I see the reason for having a good number of categories, and I understand why Sound Effects, Music, and Voice should not be in the same category. I only proposed that in reaction to the proposed removal of SFX and VO, which left only a Music category. I thought it preferable in that case to combine them into a Sound category rather than scrap two of the three. Either way, I don't think we're at risk of losing these categories anymore.
I have rethought my position on Commercial and Free games. I now think Commercial games should be eligible for all awards, however I believe that there should be a Best Commercial Game, Best Freeware Game, and possibly even a Best Overall Game award. I find this preferable to a complete split, and I'll credit Snarky's arguments for the persuasion.
In the end, bicilotti runs the show, and obviously gets the final say. I'd like to say now that I appreciate all of the work that goes into arranging and hosting the awards.
DB submission vs. Release dateQuote from: Radiant on Sun 05/01/2014 00:40:49
That's not subjective though, that means that for these games (as with Space Quest IIv), the eligibility criterion used was its release date (and, as per the poll above, a clear supermajority of the community supports this).
I meant that I think it's subjective and unnecessarily complicated to have two different criteria that are applied to different games on a case-by-case basis. I'd rather have one simple rule. I think for practical reasons candidates should be in the games db, and I'm a bit leery of the organizers unilaterally going in and creating new entries (or messing with existing ones), so for that and other reasons already mentioned, I think the most straightforward rule would be to limit contestants to those submitted to the db in the year in question.
But it does seem that this view is in a minority, and if it is the considered decision of the community to base it on "release date" (whatever that might mean, precisely), I'm not strongly opposed. Always subject to bicilotti's approval and the actual practicality of the proposal, of course (which don't seem like major obstacles in this case).
I
am strongly of the opinion that games that were not allowed to compete last year because they hadn't been submitted to the db should be included this year, but it doesn't seem like there's really much opposition to that view. (OTOH, if Dave was to now add Blackwell Convergence to the database, four-five years after its release, I don't think it should be allowed to compete. :-D)
I also tend to think that creators should have the opportunity to decline to participate in the contest (as some people have in the past), and I'm curious how you all would propose to handle this if any game released in the year is automatically a candidate.
Commercial gamesThe biggest decision is probably what to do with commercial games. Shutting them out of all categories except for one special one doesn't seem right to me. After all, these are AGS games just like all others, and it just seems like terrible discrimination to exclude them almost completely. Separate awards for each category... well, it's cumbersome, but as long as there's still one overall "Best Game" no matter its commercial/free status, it might work. My preference is still for a joint competition, though.
Quote from: dactylopus on Sun 05/01/2014 13:24:36
I have rethought my position on Commercial and Free games. [...] and I'll credit Snarky's arguments for the persuasion.
Yay! Thanks! ;-D
Quote from: Andail on Sun 05/01/2014 09:37:52
"One ruler", with some sort of indisputable power to decide things, never works! this isn't North Korea!
It's not the community who will be making the technical changes and actually administrating the Awards... :-D
I think there're no commercial games for MAGS. So MAGS won't apply with new ags awards rules.
I disagree with best overall game. A commercial game might win with that.
Quote from: Snarky on Sun 05/01/2014 13:54:56
I think for practical reasons candidates should be in the games db, and I'm a bit leery of the organizers unilaterally going in and creating new entries (or messing with existing ones), so for that and other reasons already mentioned, I think the most straightforward rule would be to limit contestants to those submitted to the db in the year in question.
But if it's so important that the authors give their consent, why not just make the organizers ask them for it before adding each game? At least the organizers would actually have the power to fix things in case the consent is given, unlike an unlucky author who realized their mistake too late and can't fix anything with the current system. And if necessary they could be adding some kind of entries directly to the eligibility pool without adding it to the main db or something. I really don't like the idea of some extremely trivial technicality imposing limits on the actual needs of the task at hand.
It seems most of what I said has been either misinterpreted or reduced to its less important aspects.
I repeat here: what is the original sense of the Awards? Celebrating games made with AGS, independently from their budget? If this was (and still is) the case, the whole matter is simply irrelevant. All games should be allowed, there should be no separate categories, and no "Best Free" or "Best Commercial". Because if the philosophy is "they are AGS games, non matter what", then what's the point of having even those special Awards? It seems totally illogical to me.
Speaking of the admission criteria, I see a lot of unnecessary confusion as well. What I suggest is that release date should be a requirement: there is, the release date has to be the year before the one when the related Awards Celebration takes place. This, however, doesn't prevent us to add another requirement like, for example, the insertion in the games database (or any other reasonable one). If that had been the case, there would have been no doubt at all for the admissibility of Primordia.
It's been released in 2012? Then it's not eligible. Period.
And let's take Forge: Chapter One as another example.
Has it been released in 2013? Yes. Has it been inserted in the database in 2013? No. So it's not eligible. Period.
With this couple of requirements (release date + insertion date) the eventual issue of an author not wanting his game to participate is fixed as well.
That said, this is not the solution I prefer: as I explained I have a totally different view on both the topics. But let's forget that.
Quote from: Dualnames on Sun 05/01/2014 02:52:59
I know putting Primordia may have been a wrong choice, but the team felt really stupid, when we forgot to last year, so I put it up and thought why not put it for nominations. It's not an attempt to get awards, it's an attempt to let people vote for it. If I cared about awards, the game would have been added to the database already, and I wouldn't bother spending time to fix bugs and go through feedback along with Wormwood studios.
Me, Mark Yohalem and Victor Pflug, along with Dave Gilbert, Nathaniel Chambers, and everyone that worked on this, worked hard to get a game done. I spent 2.5 years of my life coding. I didn't do it to get AGS awards.
It seems to me that Primordia isn't the focus of the discussion any more, it's just the pretext to analyse an already existing problem. I doubt anyone here would be pissed off in case it's allowed (maybe the exact opposite) and I doubt anyone thinks you and your team have elaborated a cunning plan to steal Awards. I don't, for sure.
In the end, I think the best solution would be to admit that game and any other that were inserted in the games database in 2013, since it seems the current rules are unclear on the admissibility of a game whose database insertion year is 2013. Of course this "amnesty" should be done only for this particular edition of the Awards.
Then we should come up with a common and widely accepted set of rules for the 2014 (and following) Awards.
I was wondering, have guys ever considered Golden Raspberry version of AGS Awards? It might be a fun thing to do. Especially for people not taking everything so seriously such as myself. I would be actually more than happy to win, I don't know, "most cliche puzzle" or "dullest dialogs" :) Better than nothing :D And I could finally wore a tuxedo :)
Quote from: Gribbler on Sun 05/01/2014 17:30:39
I was wondering, have guys ever considered Golden Raspberry version of AGS Awards? It might be a fun thing to do. Especially for people not taking everything so seriously such as myself. I would be actually more than happy to win, I don't know, "most cliche puzzle" or "dullest dialogs" :) Better than nothing :D And I could finally wore a tuxedo :)
It used to exist (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/wiki/AGS_Awards_2006#Worst_AGS_Game_.28The_P3N1S_Award.29).
Quote from: Volcan on Sun 05/01/2014 13:59:46
I disagree with best overall game. A commercial game might win with that.
And again, why shouldn't it?
I'd prefer an additional "Best Free Game" award. If a free game also wins the "Best Game" award, then it really deserves both awards. And if a commercial game wins, then there's still an award for the best free game.
Yeah, I like that idea, Problem.
Quote from: Ghost on Sun 05/01/2014 17:41:16
Quote from: Volcan on Sun 05/01/2014 13:59:46
I disagree with best overall game. A commercial game might win with that.
And again, why shouldn't it?
Indeed. In fact, that's rather the point: An award to honor the best game made with AGS, all other considerations aside.
Even if Monsanto, the NSA and Al Qaida made a game together, having kidnapped and enslaved all the world's best artists, coders and game designers, and sold it to raise money for an Adolf Hitler Memorial...
if it really was the best gosh-darned AGS game made that year, it would be up for the Best Game award.
Quote from: Abisso on Sun 05/01/2014 16:14:24
It seems most of what I said has been either misinterpreted or reduced to its less important aspects.
Speaking of the admission criteria, I see a lot of unnecessary confusion as well. What I suggest is that release date should be a requirement: there is, the release date has to be the year before the one when the related Awards Celebration takes place. This, however, doesn't prevent us to add another requirement like, for example, the insertion in the games database (or any other reasonable one). If that had been the case, there would have been no doubt at all for the admissibility of Primordia.
But this would not be a good set of rules, since it gets us into exactly the kind of situation we want to avoid, where a game was released in one year but the authors simply forgot to add it to the database until later, and so it ends up being disqualified from participating both the year of release and the year of database submission.
Quote from: dactylopus on Sun 05/01/2014 13:24:36
[...] however I believe that there should be a Best Commercial Game, Best Freeware Game, and possibly even a Best Overall Game award. [...]
Best Overall Game award is needed and if the game winning the Best Overall Game award also wins the Best Commercial Game or Best Freeware Game award (which is very likely) it should only be the best game this year and not also the other thing. the other subcategory winning game can keep this award then. my 2 cents.
Also agree with Problem and some others - "Best Freeware Game" award seems like a decent and simple solution. It's the "free games" that are feeling left out, so better to make an award for that category rather than categories for commercial games IMO. Winning that and Best Game (overall) as freeware would be an honour indeed.
I'm with Problem, Snarky and Mods. Makes things easier for everyone.
Quote from: Snarky on Sun 05/01/2014 18:20:38
Even if Monsanto, the NSA and Al Qaida made a game together, having kidnapped and enslaved all the world's best artists, coders and game designers, and sold it to raise money for an Adolf Hitler Memorial... if it really was the best gosh-darned AGS game made that year, it would be up for the Best Game award.
;-D
Quote from: Abisso on Sun 05/01/2014 16:14:24
It seems to me that Primordia isn't the focus of the discussion any more,
Indeed it's not, since Dual posted earlier that he'd withdrawn the game.
Quote from: Dualnames on Fri 03/01/2014 06:53:21
Ahem, let me intervene, but I've kind of withdrawn the game, since Andail pointed out it may end up having heated discussions. So why are we discussing this?
So perhaps we can focus on the more complicated topic of commercial vs free games? I think it would help the discussion if we had some concrete data from earlier years to show how much either group is being eclipsed by the others? Has it been the case in previous years that a commercial game got all the votes and the free games had no chance, or vice versa?
I rather figured Dual might change his mind if the question was amicably resolved... :)
If you will refer to the last time (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=47909.msg636449710#msg636449710) we had this discussion, a little less than a year ago... :P
2009: 4 of 19 by a commercial game (Time Gentlemen, Please!), including Best Game
2010: 11 of 17 by The Journey Down, which was a free game but was later remade as a commercial (non-AGS) title
2011: 9 of 17 by commercial games (Gemini Rue & Blackwell Deception), including Best Game
2012: 13 of 17 by commercial games (Resonance and the bake-sale game RAM Ghost), including Best Game
So over the last four years it's 26-48 between commercial/free titles, but in the last two years 22-12. I'm not sure we can conclude that either group is getting squeezed (2011-12 were bumper years for commercial AGS games, but if Primordia is not competing for 2013, are there all that many likely candidates? Only one I see in FYC is Conspirocracy), although there's a clear trend for "Best Game" going to a commercial or near-commercial title.
My two cents on Commercial vs. Freeware.
There are less commercial games than freeware games. Since they tend to be of above-average quality they also get nominated and tend to win awards. And personally I am okay with that. Everyone can pick up AGS and make a game. Commercial games aren't successful because they are "commercial games"- they can be sold because they are good. So I really think they should not be treated as different kinds of game. Neither are their higher production values a reason to call them "unfairly good", that's just silly. On the same ground all team games could be shunned because they were not made by one dude, which is clearly unfair too. And the next step would be to pick on any game made by someone who has more experience, which is an unfair advantage. You get my point. ;)
I think the sore point is that there are still much more freeware titles around, and these get a bit "overshadowed" when a commercial title scores really big. If making new categorys for commercial games can resolve that, well, that's okay by me as long as there is more than just a "best commercial game" category. That would feel silly- as if a freeware game was "more in the spirit of AGS" and should thus be rewarded MORE.
I repeat, everyone can hone his skills, make an awesome game, and win the hell of a lot of trophies. As long as the game is made with AGS, commercial or freeware is not relevant to me.
Again, those is my subjective opinion. I do admit that I cried a little each time I saw Vince's avatar trying to "carry all the trophies". But there was pride there too, to see a fellow forumite and his team making a kick-ass game and getting the fame and glory for it.
Quote from: Ghost on Sun 05/01/2014 19:59:00
[...] I think the sore point is that there are still much more freeware titles around, and these get a bit "overshadowed" when a commercial title scores really big. If making new categorys for commercial games can resolve that, well, that's okay by me as long as there is more than just a "best commercial game" category. That would feel silly- as if a freeware game was "more in the spirit of AGS" and should thus be rewarded MORE. [...]
I agree with this paragraph of Ghost. (nod)
Creating a different class for Commercial games isn't a bad option, considering more and more people are honing their skills excellently and releasing commercial games more then ever before (which is a very good thing as it will encourage more people). Besides, commercial class itself will feel elite to amateurs like me because most, if not all, commercial adventure games are of top-notch quality. Personally, I would love to be a part of Commercial Class someday (if I'm able to hone my skills to that excellence ever).
I would go with best freeware game over a best commercial game category. There aren't a bunch of commercial games every year, so if there's only one or two in a year, that trophy would be gift wrapped. Having best game and best freeware game, means that both commercial and freeware have to work hard to earn that best game trophy, as it is now.
Having a best freeware game category opens the door for smaller projects to have a chance to win something cool, an AGS trophy. If that helps generate more freeware games a year, that's great, I love free games.
Commercial games have to run against freeware games for the trophies every year the way things are structured now, so I don't see why any commercial game developer would mind there also being a freeware category by itself.
I cant remember the last time I posted, and I'm not too sure why I am now, but making just a commercial game category would be saying that no freeware game is fit enough for that category, and somehow that doesn't seem right. Best game is best game whether it's free or for sale.
I only say this if you guys decide to add another category, otherwise leaving things the same seems somewhat fair enough.
I was about to say I agree with Problem, but then I read Ghost's excellent post and realized that he makes a really damn good point.
As elegant as the "best free game" solution is, it indeed appears encouraging towards specifically making free games as opposed to commercial ones (as does the whole concept of division between awards for free and commercial games , of course). And... as great as free games are it is a very strange point to be making, really. Because the simple reality is it's much harder to make a commercial game as an indie. It's virtually universally more effort and often that also means more quality. In an extremely niche and indie market it often also means more passion. And none of this implies some universal superiority of commercial games of course, for example personally I'd easily vote for ~airwave~ over Resonance or Technobabylon over Gemini Rue, or The Vacuum over virtually anything, any day (even though Resonance and Gemini Rue are totally friggin' sweet, obviously). So making achieving a lot with a free game some kind of favourable heroic feat compared to making a game that actually makes it to the damn market and is bought by people for actual money... I don't know what exactly is that supposed to encourage to be honest. Yes, making an awesome ambitious free game is hard. But should we really make it seem like it's somehow more of an achievement than making an awesome commercial game that everybody is just as well willing to vote for of their own free will? Should we really tell to the faces of commercial developers who worked their asses off that there is something granted about their efforts, something that seemingly makes them "win by default"? I'm all for praising freeware gems, but now I'm not sure if this way to do it isn't really really awkward. And since we're at it, why should it be called "best freeware game" rather than "best obscure game that very few adventure gamers who allegedly like adventure games bothered to discover and play for their own enjoyment because it wasn't marketed really hard right in their faces so it got fewer votes" then?
Honestly, I don't know. It rarely happens, but now I don't know where I stand on this.
I've swayed towards adding a Best Freeware Game category to the listings rather than Best Commercial Game. The worry was that freeware games would be edged out by high quality commercial games (which has been happening more in the last couple of years, as the number of commercial games has increased). This allows for some more recognition for the freeware titles that might slip through the cracks if a commercial game were to take home a huge percentage of the awards. It's also a nice way of saying thank you to the developers who work hard to create something and offer it at no cost to the community.
Funny, I think all of this discussion has convinced me to do a full reverse on each of the points of debate. Maybe a new poll is in order?
Since there is a large majority on the eligibility issue, after having talked about it with AGA, I am making an announcement:
from this edition of the Awards on, eligibility will be based on release date
There, I said it. Technical details for this edition:
- adding the game to the database is still required, so if you are a developer who released something in 2013 and want to compete in the Awards, add your game to the DB now if it is not already there
- for games released in 2013 but added to the DB in 2014, developers should send me a PM so I can pester AGA to make the appropriate changes. This option is valid until nomination phase starts only; after that no tweaking will be possible!
- along with games released in 2013, every game added in the DB in 2013 is still eligible for the Awards 2013. This is only fair, as I am changing rules in the middle of the competition
It is a bit cumbersome, but I guess it's normal since it's the first year.
Feel free to warn your friends/devs about this, good luck to the contestants!
Thank you Bicilotti.
Just a question about that: the majority of the games made with AGS are in english, but there are some developers who are not native english speakers and sometimes they release their games in their native language first. The english version often take a lot of time to be completed. In this case, which release date should be took? The english version release date I guess...
Quote from: AprilSkies on Mon 06/01/2014 19:36:05
Just a question about that: the majority of the games made with AGS are in english, but there are some developers who are not native english speakers and sometimes they release their games in their native language first.
It seems a sensible choice. And let's hope "release date" problems won't get trickier than that! :P
I maybe have a tricky one here.
What about a game that isn't yet released (still in production, thus no release date), but has a demo done and was added to the database aimed to compete for the Best Demo award?
Quote from: Yeppoh on Mon 06/01/2014 21:50:38
I maybe have a tricky one here.
What about a game that isn't yet released (still in production, thus no release date), but has a demo done and was added to the database aimed to compete for the Best Demo award?
If the demo was released in 2013, it can compete for the Best Demo Award in 2013. I may be missing something in your question if that's not the answer.
Perhaps irrelevant, but I just got an award today for a game released in 2012...
http://www.virtualinn.it/site/virtual-inn-awards-2013-miglior-avventura-grafica/
Hence proving that maybe this whole release date thing is not that important anyway?;) Clearly media elsewhere don't pay too much attention to it after all. I am officially changing my mind about Primordia, too late or not.
Also, just wanted to say: hey, I got an award! Yay!:)
Quote from: Grim on Mon 06/01/2014 22:17:00
Perhaps irrelevant, but I just got an award today for a game released in 2012...
http://www.virtualinn.it/site/virtual-inn-awards-2013-miglior-avventura-grafica/
Hence proving that maybe this whole release date thing is not that important anyway?;) Clearly media elsewhere don't pay too much attention to it after all. I am officially changing my mind about Primordia, too late or not.
Also, just wanted to say: hey, I got an award! Yay!:)
Congratulations! But I see the Award comes from my country, so you shouldn't use that as an example. We are the land of anomalies, that's for sure! :-D
I'm only making fun of the lateness in the Award, not the fact they chose your game, of course.
Quote from: AprilSkies on Mon 06/01/2014 19:36:05
Thank you Bicilotti.
Just a question about that: the majority of the games made with AGS are in english, but there are some developers who are not native english speakers and sometimes they release their games in their native language first. The english version often take a lot of time to be completed. In this case, which release date should be took? The english version release date I guess...
I think the "release date" should be the "true" one and only release date in whatever language that is. Otherwise any addition to the game might be considered as a new release date, and this doesn't make any sense at all. Plus, it would introduce even more confusion.
There is another potential set of problems, though. I've only thought about that now that someone brought to my attention the fact that my game is "potentially" eligible once again, with the current set of rules and exceptions.
Forge: Chapter One is more of a demo than a complete game, as I've explained before. But it's technically an episode, and most Telltale games are released like that. Each one of them is considered a separate game, not a demo. How would you classify my game then?
Another thing I don't understand is if a Demo can only win the "Best Demo" Award or if it's eligible for other Awards as well. If the latter is the case, then is it not strange that the complete game based on that demo could technically win again the same Awards when the game is released the following year? Or is it that a game cannot take part to the Awards if its demo has already been in previously?
So, these are the 3 questions:
1. What is considered a Demo?
2. Is a Demo only eligible for "Best Demo"?
3. Can a game take part to the Awards if its demo was in previously?
Independently from those questions, I still haven't changed my mind about participating. But some people are asking me to, and since I'm looking for new team-members, the potential visibility is tempting me.
add forge to the database already!
Quote from: Grim on Mon 06/01/2014 22:17:00
Also, just wanted to say: hey, I got an award! Yay!:)
Congrats Grim (and nice to see coverage of adventure gaming on Italian sites).
@Abisso: I played your game and as you have stated, I would never call it a demo, but a "chapter 1" (or 0, if you prefer).
Quote from: Abisso on Mon 06/01/2014 22:46:47
I think the "release date" should be the "true" one and only release date in whatever language that is. Otherwise any addition to the game might be considered as a new release date, and this doesn't make any sense at all. Plus, it would introduce even more confusion.
Thank you Abisso. It's reasonable.
The only problem is that: if a game is released in Spanish language (only an example) in 2014 and it will be locazided to english in 2015, he should in 2014 Awards ... but how can player evaluate it? Only Spnaish player can. The rest of the world will paly it in 2015, in english. But it was released in 2014.
Another problem: the came cannot be putted in the "complete announcement section" or in DB only if it is in spanish, if i remembere rules.
@Grim: The Cat lady was released in Italian Language in 2013 .. maybe that's the reason
There is no rule, as far as I know, that you cannot post your game in the Completed Games Announcement section, or in the games DB if it is only a non-english language. There are several games in the DB and the forums that are non-english only.
Quote from: CaptainD on Mon 06/01/2014 22:03:04
If the demo was released in 2013, it can compete for the Best Demo Award in 2013. I may be missing something in your question if that's not the answer.
Thanks. That makes it clear.
Quote from: AprilSkies on Tue 07/01/2014 15:54:25
Quote from: Abisso on Mon 06/01/2014 22:46:47
I think the "release date" should be the "true" one and only release date in whatever language that is. Otherwise any addition to the game might be considered as a new release date, and this doesn't make any sense at all. Plus, it would introduce even more confusion.
Thank you Abisso. It's reasonable.
The only problem is that: if a game is released in Spanish language (only an example) in 2014 and it will be locazided to english in 2015, he should in 2014 Awards ... but how can player evaluate it? Only Spnaish player can. The rest of the world will paly it in 2015, in english. But it was released in 2014.
Another problem: the came cannot be putted in the "complete announcement section" or in DB only if it is in spanish, if i remembere rules.
@Grim: The Cat lady was released in Italian Language in 2013 .. maybe that's the reason
I think we have to face the fact English is as close an "international" language as any will ever be. So unless Esperanto, Interlingua or, most likely, Klingon become the new standards, English should be the main focus when choosing a language for a game.
My approach is probably too extreme, as I've released Forge: Chapter One just in English, though it isn't my main language. But I believe it's highly recommended to release a game with at least the "Mother language + English" combo from the very beginning.
Also, according to the Completed Game Announcements rules (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=45904.0):
Quote4. If your game is in a language other than English, please note this in the thread title (ie. Game Title - Spanish Language).
which indirectly confirms that is allowed to post a non-English game in that thread.
Anyway, I'm not the one in charge of deciding which criteria has to be used for non-English games, in relation to the eligibility for the Awards. If bicilotti says it's ok, then it's ok. But I'd recommend elucidating this possible source of debate in a clear way in the new rules for the 2014 Awards.
Speaking of Demos, I still don't understand if a Complete Game and its Demo can participate in two different editions of the Awards, and if a Demo is eligible for all the awards or just for the "Best Demo".
Quote from: Babar on Tue 07/01/2014 16:02:09
There is no rule, as far as I know, that you cannot post your game in the Completed Games Announcement section, or in the games DB if it is only a non-english language. There are several games in the DB and the forums that are non-english only.
Yep, you're right! I was wrong. I checked (As Abisso just pointed).
So it's all clear for me.
Thank you.
@Abisso: Maybe you're right: simply just release in english from the very beginning.
If the choice is between releasing your game in English or in... let's say Lithuanian, then it's probably smarter to go with the one that is spoken across the world. But if it's a choice between releasing your game in Lithuanian and not releasing your game at all (for example because you speak hardly any English), then it's a different matter.
Personally I think it would be OK for a game to be allowed to compete in the year it gets an English translation, even if it had been released previously, similar to the way we already established that games can compete for "Best Voice Work" the year they get a voice pack (even if the game itself was released in a previous year). I would only exclude games that have already been nominated for anything in previous years, in case by some miracle a non-English game manages to get nominated without an English translation.
I just saw a post in the FYC thread (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=49764.msg636478143#msg636478143) to promote a worthy game which could have been missed as the author hasn't been around lately.
Do you think there are more of these games? Go on and tell us in the For your Consideration thread (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=49764.0) too!
You will help fellow players who are frantically going through game after game (because you are frantically going through game after game, right? Right?)
Quote from: bicilotti on Fri 10/01/2014 13:19:07
I just saw a post in the FYC thread (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=49764.msg636478143#msg636478143) to promote a worthy game which could have been missed as the author hasn't been around lately.
Do you think there are more of these games? Go on and tell us in the For your Consideration thread (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=49764.0) too!
You will help fellow players who are frantically going through game after game (because you are frantically going through game after game, right? Right?)
Did you ask to the authors first? Few authors might not like to compete.
Also, I noted both games Adventure Island and Educating Adventures of Girl and Rabbit
have no link from database. It would be great if they add those links to follow the rules.
Quote from: Volcan on Fri 10/01/2014 13:32:44
Did you ask to the authors first? Few authors might not like to compete.
Common sense suggests to use that option when the author hasn't been around lately.
Quote
Also, I noted both games Adventure Island and Educating Adventures of Girl and Rabbit have no link from database. It would be great if they add those links to follow the rules.
There is a rule to add the game to the DB, but rereading my FYC post, there is no requirement to provide a link to the DB (even though it always nice to have a link to the DB).
Quote from: bicilotti on Fri 10/01/2014 14:08:18
Quote from: Volcan on Fri 10/01/2014 13:32:44
Did you ask to the authors first? Few authors might not like to compete.
Common sense suggests to use that option when the author hasn't been around lately.
Quote
Also, I noted both games Adventure Island and Educating Adventures of Girl and Rabbit have no link from database. It would be great if they add those links to follow the rules.
There is a rule to add the game to the DB, but rereading my FYC post, there is no requirement to provide a link to the DB (even though it always nice to have a link to the DB).
Ok. The games need to be in the database but not need to link to them.
Thank you to clarify. I was confusing.
Nomination phase will start tonight at 00:00 (and will last two weeks). Thanks to AGA for setting this up!
I have to say this "for your consideration" thread is a great way to catch up on what you've missed during the year. I've played three games from that list already and loving it;)
Can't way to start nominating! (by then I'll probably try most of the contenders)
There are still so many games I want to play before nominating - guess I have to hurry up a bit!
Nom nom nom!
QuoteDon't worry, if you make a mistake you'll be able to keep nominating again up until the deadline!
So can I submit partially and fill in the blanks later or do I have to fill in everything again when opening the page again?
Is there no best music category? Because WHY AM I WORKING ON A VIDEO GAME ADAPTATION OF PINK FLOYD'S THE WALL?
Quote from: KodiakBehr on Thu 16/01/2014 03:29:08
Is there no best music category? Because WHY AM I WORKING ON A VIDEO GAME ADAPTATION OF PINK FLOYD'S THE WALL?
Good question, because that was one category I didn't expect to go away! I would consider it at least as important as SFX and VO.
(Also, that would be an interesting game.)
Quote from: cat on Wed 15/01/2014 15:55:04
There are still so many games I want to play before nominating - guess I have to hurry up a bit!
Same here, there are some gems in that list that I never got around to playing... but it's the perfect excuse to play videogames! Imagine!
Ghost : "Boss, I need to call sick."
Boss : "What? For how long?"
Ghost : "Er... until I have played all those AGS games here on my list!"
Boss : "Videogames! For fun??????"
Ghost : "No! To be able to nominate them fairly!"
Boss : "Ah fair enough, okay then."
(laugh)
Quote from: dactylopus on Thu 16/01/2014 04:19:46
Quote from: KodiakBehr on Thu 16/01/2014 03:29:08
Is there no best music category? Because WHY AM I WORKING ON A VIDEO GAME ADAPTATION OF PINK FLOYD'S THE WALL?
Good question, because that was one category I didn't expect to go away! I would consider it at least as important as SFX and VO.
(Also, that would be an interesting game.)
Looks like an oversight, actually, since it's listed here (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/wiki/AGS_Awards_2013).
Quote from: dactylopus on Thu 16/01/2014 04:28:33
Looks like an oversight, actually, since it's listed here (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/wiki/AGS_Awards_2013).
It is indeed, thanks for spotting!
Will notify AGA, stay tuned (har har the pun).
Fixed.
Quote from: AGA on Thu 16/01/2014 08:11:42
Fixed.
Talk about efficiency!
To Everyone: if you nominated before this moment, go back to the nomination phase! You will find a new category (best music), fill that in too!
that answers all my questions :)
What happened to the Best Tutorial or Documentation award? According to the AGS wiki (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/w/index.php?title=AGS_Awards_2013&oldid=10293), there was going to be one; if it hadn't been there, I would have suggested in this thread that we should still have that.
Quote from: Radiant on Thu 16/01/2014 10:24:32
What happened to the Best Tutorial or Documentation award? According to the AGS wiki (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/w/index.php?title=AGS_Awards_2013&oldid=10293), there was going to be one; if it hadn't been there, I would have suggested in this thread that we should still have that.
My bad, I pasted the old template.
Best Documentation has been scrapped two years ago because very few people cared enough to even input nominations (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=45060.msg613800#msg613800).
Hmmmm....
Shouldn't ending FYC first by setting a deadline, then start nominees and vote.
Each time a game's added we need to go to nominates games again.
Quote from: Volcan on Sun 26/01/2014 19:04:53
Hmmmm....
Shouldn't ending FYC first by setting a deadline, then start nominees and vote.
Each time a game's added we need to go to nominates games again.
FYC posts are encouraged but not mandatory.
I hope the "nominate again" process it's not too cumbersome (if it is, just shout and I will try to do something (as usual, pestering AGA))!
Finished nominating. If you haven't done yet, go nominate your favorite games now, there is not much time left!
nominees revealed (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/wiki/AGS_Awards_2013), good sirs!
Congrats to all nominees! A really varied field this year.
Am I reading the nominees list correctly? That there are no more than five nominees for any given category? Or is it the five games that are most nominated make it on the list?
Four nominations for my games? This is incredible :grin:, thanks to all the people that had voted for me.
Quote from: KodiakBehr on Thu 06/02/2014 13:31:15
Or is it the five games that are most nominated make it on the list?
I believe that's the case, yes.
Quote from: KodiakBehr on Thu 06/02/2014 13:31:15
Am I reading the nominees list correctly? That there are no more than five nominees for any given category? Or is it the five games that are most nominated make it on the list?
top five games with which at least five people nominated (hence some categories have only two nominees).
Congratulations everyone! Some really good stuff made last year.
(I notice that Owl Cave is listed as Own Cave -- not sure if us plebeians are allowed to edit the page, but thought I'd draw attention to the typo.)
Wow. This is simply wild. We're all incredibly grateful for sharing the nomination with such great titles this year.
Heh, I'm little surprised (in a good way) that Ratatosk made it among the Best NPCs. I thought I was the only one who thought about voting for her (or him?) - I didn't expect more people would share my "silly" idea. I'm also sorry that I wasn't able to play all the "For Your Consideration" games - I hoped to have more time to familiarize myself with most of the titles. At least I will try to catch up on the nominated games...
We have great titles this year. I'm surprised FYC thread is not locked yet.
Congrats, everyone! Happy and honored to see Monty nominated, too -- thanks :)
I knew my clever plan of making a game with a number in the title would put me at the top of the category lists and thus net me more votes! :cheesy:
Thanks to everyone who voted for me. I can't wait to have my heart broken come the day of the ceremony! :=
Congrats to all the other nominees!
Quote from: Eric on Thu 06/02/2014 14:30:41
(I notice that Owl Cave is listed as Own Cave -- not sure if us plebeians are allowed to edit the page, but thought I'd draw attention to the typo.)
It's a wiki! Everyone can edit.
Thank you so much to everyone who nominated my game!
I am sincerely grateful and honored (and of course so happy) to be nominated, but especially to be nominated alongside such superb games.
... and of course congratulations to all other nominees!
Thank you who nominated my game. Good luck for all authors too.
Congrats to the nominees ;) (hooray for Conspirocracy!). I have to say I am quite surprised Skumring isn't there, though. WTF, folks :P.
Holy moly! Four nominations! Thank you so much guys. We're delighted you liked our game so much.
It's tuxedo time for Mr. Nameless! Yay! :D
Congrats to the nominees! I confess, this is the first year in a long time that I didn't nominate. I didn't have time to play many games. But now I've got a nice (and much shorter) list of games to check out before the vote! Looking forward to checking them out!
(And it's about time I got rid of this avatar.)
Thanks for nomating The Art of Dying in Best Non-Adventure AGS Game, Best Programming and Best Gameplay!
Quote from: DoorKnobHandle on Thu 06/02/2014 19:18:59
Thanks for nomating The Art of Dying in Best Non-Adventure AGS Game, Best Programming and Best Gameplay!
What about best game? I think it's the first Non-adv which manages to get in the magic five shortlist for best game!
@Volcan: FYC is your pet peeve :P will prod m0ds!
Oh haha, I didn't even see that for some reason. That's really cool, thank you to everybody that nominated!
On behalf of all of Crystalshard, let me say we are very grateful for your support. Thank you all!
Congratulations to all the nominees! This year looks interesting and varied!
Quote from: Ponch on Thu 06/02/2014 15:55:27
I can't wait to have my heart broken come the day of the ceremony! :=
LOL (laugh)
Do you remember Mortal Kombat's fatalities? That's what Heroin's Quest (one of the best games I ever played) will do against our games (laugh)
In my country we use to say: "Give Caesar what belongs to Caesar!"
In my country people that are nominated for international awards but don't win any are made ridicule for the rest of their lives. It's not that bad considering that not being nominated results in weekly stonings by the local folk. Now that's embarrassing: buying bread from the guy that just hit you with a rock in the nose.
Just wanted you to know that.
Quote from: miguel on Fri 07/02/2014 11:28:57
In my country people that are nominated for international awards but don't win any are made ridicule for the rest of their lives. It's not that bad considering that not being nominated results in weekly stonings by the local folk. Now that's embarrassing: buying bread from the guy that just hit you with a rock in the nose.
Just wanted you to know that.
On the brighter side, they aren't made to remove their testicles! (laugh)
That's where they aim first!
Just wanted to say a quick thank you to anyone who voted for Time Stone during the nominations, it's an honour. Best Puzzles, Best Short Game and Best NPC for Dragon, although he's got some stiff competition with Rabbit in there. Unfortunately, I didn't get to play as many AGS games as I would have liked to this year, but those that I did got a few nominations. Congratulations to all of the nominees.
My dear little Casper and his game have been nominated! Weeeee!
I have to admit I kinda counted on it, just because the graphics are so much "different" ;)
thanks to Cat for pointing at Cross Stitch Casper in the "for your consideration" topic.
Wish I would be more active here, but my live has been upside down since a week after I released the game (2 small children, big move). I'm still skimming the forums every now and then but just can't seem to find the time to sit down and contribute.
Back on topic: thanks everyone who voted for me. If you didn't play Cross Stitch Casper yet, do it now. It's an investment of half an hour that I'm almost sure you won't regret.
It's a shame that after so much debate, we decided to allow Primordia to compete, and it didn't get even one nomination. I played the Demo and loved it, and hoped to see it in the nominees.
Congratulations to all who were nominated! There are some great games up there, and I'm eager to cast my votes!
Quote from: dactylopus on Sun 09/02/2014 05:44:13
It's a shame that after so much debate, we decided to allow Primordia to compete, and it didn't get even one nomination. I played the Demo and loved it, and hoped to see it in the nominees.
Primordia did not compete. I asked Dualnames about his intentions and he politely and firmly stated that he did want to withdraw the game from the awards (hence votes for Primordia were disregarded).
Quote from: bicilotti on Sun 09/02/2014 06:28:29
Quote from: dactylopus on Sun 09/02/2014 05:44:13
It's a shame that after so much debate, we decided to allow Primordia to compete, and it didn't get even one nomination. I played the Demo and loved it, and hoped to see it in the nominees.
Primordia did not compete. I asked Dualnames about his intentions and he politely and firmly stated that he did want to withdraw the game from the awards (hence votes for Primordia were disregarded).
Well then that's also a shame, as I feel it would have done very well and it deserves to be recognized. Thanks for the clarification, though. It seemed odd, and it's good to know what went down.
And now I'll just say good luck to all of the nominees!
Just scrolling through AGS forums as I haven't been online much recently, check the nominations and see Witchy Woo was nominated. I feel all warm and fuzzy inside :P Thanks for the nomination guys. Sox and I are chuffed to bits.
I'm guessing voting hasn't started yet?
Sorry if it's mentioned somewhere and I didn't notice but any idea of when voting begins?
Quote from: Mandle on Mon 10/02/2014 02:52:03
I'm guessing voting hasn't started yet?
Sorry if it's mentioned somewhere and I didn't notice but any idea of when voting begins?
I usually leave a few days 'off' after the nominations, so people can discuss and devs can thank the voters/their mums/god.
I am sending a PM to AGA so he can set up the voting page; I expect voting to start in the next 48 hours.
Quote from: dactylopus on Sun 09/02/2014 09:32:52
Quote from: bicilotti on Sun 09/02/2014 06:28:29
Quote from: dactylopus on Sun 09/02/2014 05:44:13
It's a shame that after so much debate, we decided to allow Primordia to compete, and it didn't get even one nomination. I played the Demo and loved it, and hoped to see it in the nominees.
Primordia did not compete. I asked Dualnames about his intentions and he politely and firmly stated that he did want to withdraw the game from the awards (hence votes for Primordia were disregarded).
Well then that's also a shame, as I feel it would have done very well and it deserves to be recognized. Thanks for the clarification, though. It seemed odd, and it's good to know what went down.
And now I'll just say good luck to all of the nominees!
Ah, thanks for explanation, I was also wondering about this. I understand that Dualnames got discouraged because of the long discussion about commercial vs. free game nominations and time of release vs. time of adding to the database, yet I think it was kind of unnecessary to withdraw his game from the awards altogether (before the discussion even ended). I was hoping that he would change his mind. Oh well. :(
Yeah, I totally nominated Primordia. Doesn't seem quite right.
LET IT BE KNOWN THAT A VOTE FOR CONSPIROCRACY IS A VOTE FOR PRIMORDIA.
Personally, I'm voting Donald Dowell all the way as I personally had more of a fun experience with it (working on it and playing it) than I believe I would have had with Heroine's Quest, as it was more of a personal experience, by which I mean an experience personal to me in that I personally experienced it.
DISCLAIMER: I have never played Heroine's Quest, nor have I played it way too much, nor has it affected me in any way :-D
Ok, time to choose between Democrats and Republicans.
Vote!
Voted. Which ones were the Democrats?
Voted!
Really interested to see what wins Best Background Art - I had a really tough time deciding on that one. (Not that the others were necessarily easy decisions, but for me that one was the toughest to pick a winner.)
Thanks again for all the hard work that goes on behind the scenes to make these awards happen. ;-D
Voted. Most of my votes went to one game, but that's because a good number of the games I nominated didn't make it (or withdrew themselves).
Good luck to all nominees! Some of these should be very interesting!
Quote from: Ghost on Tue 11/02/2014 09:10:21
Voted. Which ones were the Democrats?
To identify the Denocratics or the Republicans, just watch at the uppercase letters in the game title. If you find a D (or two) it's Democratic stuff, if you find a R somewhere it's Republican stuff. :grin:
(just joking)
Quote from: bicilotti on Tue 11/02/2014 02:36:20
Ok, time to choose between Democrats and Republicans.
Vote!
Neither. I voted NDP. :P
So where's the Green game? And do we have any tea-related games?
I dunno but I drank a lot of green tea while making The Art of Dying haha.
I began to play the AGS community games very recently, so I will try to play all the nominated games I can before voting. But I already have my favorite for Best Short Game.
Last few days before voting closes! Cast your preferences if you haven't already!
We now need to decide the date of party (i.e. when to held the Ceremony for the Awards)!
Follow this Doodle poll (http://www.doodle.com/rm3f5z643sbkgnm2) and let us know when it fits your busy schedule! All times are London time (https://duckduckgo.com/?q=what+time+is+it+in+london+now).
I voted for 12h00pm but I can't say I'll be at he ceremony. 01h00pm, 02h00 pm and 03h00 pm would be great for me.
Quote from: Volcan on Sat 01/03/2014 00:31:10
I voted for 12h00pm but I can't say I'll be at he ceremony. 01h00pm, 02h00 pm and 03h00 pm would be great for me.
Added a 3:00 PM option. The options are not ordered because I don't want to screw up people who already voted.
Apparently likes to call midday 12:00 PM!
Voted, with the caveat that I'll probably be a little late for the 22:00 ones. Where is the ceremony held? IRC?
Voted. Are we using the AGS theater again? It's much classier than irc. :cool:
(http://s12.postimg.org/grpk6edgd/alpha.png)
Hope that brightens your day.
Ha, ha, ha - the new "balcony" is great! (laugh)
(http://www.smilies.4-user.de/include/Computer/smilie_pc_137.gif)switching to training-modus now
- sadly the old versions don't work properly anymore, so I need to leave it here -
clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap clap ... :grin:
hope to see you all over there (http://www.smileyvault.com/albums/userpics/12962/tschauie.gif)
and thanks a very lot to all of you who take the time to make this happen again (http://www.smileyvault.com/albums/userpics/12962/liebe12.gif)
I so want to be here for this in real time but have no idea how this whole thing happens.
Sorry if I missed the newbie instructions for how to join...
How to join, you say?AGS Ceremony 2013 Live Game (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=50104.0)
I can't but thank Duals and Wyz. Such dedication, Much glitter! (doge.jpg)
For folks who run low end machines you can connect to
irc://irc.agsarchives.com/#ags:
- via an IRC client (like xchat (http://xchat.org/)) (tutorial here (http://i.imgur.com/pUWt1eF.png?1))
- using your web browser (http://client00.chat.mibbit.com/?channel=%23awards,%23ags&server=irc.agsarchives.com) (warning: more of a resource hog!)
Cheers for the info! I was there for the test for a short while. Amazing stuff!
So when does the actual ceremony take place?
Mandle, vote here!
Quote from: bicilotti on Fri 28/02/2014 23:06:18
Last few days before voting closes! Cast your preferences if you haven't already!
We now need to decide the date of party (i.e. when to held the Ceremony for the Awards)!
Follow this Doodle poll (http://www.doodle.com/rm3f5z643sbkgnm2) and let us know when it fits your busy schedule! All times are London time (https://duckduckgo.com/?q=what+time+is+it+in+london+now).
I'm excited for the ceremony :)
Ok, doodle pool has been going long enough.
CEREMONY - Sun 9 Mar 2014 20:00 London time
B there, life-partners
Quote from: bicilotti on Tue 04/03/2014 22:38:42
CEREMONY - Sun 9 Mar 2014 20:00 London time
Is that AM or PM? I'm over in the States, so there's a five-hour difference, but I doubt it's a big deal.
20:00 means it is 8PM, Surplusguy.
Great that it is held on a Sunday, it's my day off!
Can't wait to see who's gonna pull a DiCaprio at the Ceremony :)
Quote from: miguel on Tue 04/03/2014 23:30:54
20:00 means it is 8PM, Surplusguy.
Snazzy. I'll be there!
Is there a 20:00 am?
Sweet. I should be able to attend.
We should turn it into a drinking game. Every time someone says "without further ado" we drink.
Quote from: janosbiro on Wed 05/03/2014 00:19:14
Is there a 20:00 am?
Mbbbbbh.
I'm half asleep, OK ;)
Quote from: Gribbler on Tue 04/03/2014 23:35:56
Can't wait to see who's gonna pull a DiCaprio at the Ceremony :)
What's that? Is it attending without pants? Because I'm totally prepared to do that. :=
Quote from: PonchWhat's that? Is it attending without pants? Because I'm totally prepared to do that.
That would be a regular "pants down pulling" but I encourage you to do it anyway :)
I meant not getting anything and have to grin and bear it :)
Oh boy, it could be me! Come Sunday! :)
Come, come, nuclear bomb...
QuoteI meant not getting anything and have to grin and bear it :)
This sounds a lot like my marriage! I think I'll arrive drunk at the party...
It would be cool if someone could record this or maybe stream it even on twitch.tv (http://twitch.tv) or the like. :=
I also say this because unfortunately I can't make it. :~(
Quote from: miguel on Tue 04/03/2014 23:30:54
Great that it is held on a Sunday, it's my day off!
I hear people in your country get their testicles removed on their days off. (laugh)
Quote from: Wyz on Sun 09/03/2014 02:08:39
It would be cool if someone could record this ... or the like. :=
+ 1 oooh yes,
please someone record it!
(http://www.smileyvault.com/albums/userpics/12962/ththPrettyPleaseCherry.gif)
It is a hundereds of times better to be able to watch the complete ceremony afterwards
than to go through the piece of log (you got stored while you've been there). (nod)
I won't be to the ceremony. It's too late for me.
I think/hope I'm actually going to be there (as long as our small ones are sleeping). 20:00 GMT is most likely the best spot for me.
I attended the ceremony (at least part of it) last year. Being among the nominees I should drop in this time as well.
Are you still sweeping the floor or why can't I connect to irc with the awardsgameclient atm?
just tried it out … works
… and I'm blown away by how insanely cool it is
redownloaded and it works :D
I'm happy to record and/or stream, if the consensus is that it should happen (and no one more-official wants to). :)
Just checking, 'cuz daylight savings and all that. The event is imminent, correct? Or is it in an hour from now?
Anyone who has no idea how to join without the ceremony game use this mibbit link (http://client00.chat.mibbit.com/?channel=%23agsawards,%23ags&server=irc.agsarchives.com).
Is nobody wearing their suits this year?
<----------------------
Didn't even take it off :)
I hope you had a shower since last year :-\
Almost there!
Awesome ceremony, guys!
[IMGZoom]http://s21.postimg.org/b7m6ce1xj/lol.png[/IMGZoom]
Quote from: Stupot+ on Sun 09/03/2014 20:45:09
Is nobody wearing their suits this year?
<----------------------
Forgot to pick it up at the cleaners! :-[
The ceremony was really fun, thanks to all the presents for the good time! :grin:
Congrats Ponch, well deserved!
Great Ceremony!
Quote from: miguel on Sun 09/03/2014 22:21:40
Congrats Ponch, well deserved!
Great Ceremony!
Thanks! And thanks to the dev team for putting that ceremony together! :cheesy:
Updated the wiki (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/wiki/AGS_Awards_2013), 92 people voted this year. Thanks everyone for participating and Duals for the in game ceremony!
edit: AGA just updated the DB, talk about efficiency!
It was fun! Thanks to everyone who participated, voted and nominated! It was very nice and humbling to get nominated and even win something. :)
I'm already wearing a formal dress. Does that count? ;) Anyways, on topic: I had so much fun in the ceremony!
Thanks to all those who developed such amazing games and got nominated. Also, thanks to those who voted and attended AGS Awards Ceremony. Especially: The Crystal Shard Team, Crimson Wizard and Ponch won my heart today! ;-D
It was a very refreshing experience. I'm hoping to see you all next year too! (nod)
I recorded the whole thing with fraps, I'll try and upload a video soon :)
Quote from: Soxbrooker on Sun 09/03/2014 23:54:49
I recorded the whole thing with fraps, I'll try and upload a video soon :)
Thanks Soxbrooker!
Meanwhile, text log (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/AGSAwards/ags_awards_log_2013.php).
Here's the selfie I took just before the awards officially started. This is the very first selfie of any kind I've ever taken! :cheesy:
(http://www.barnrunner.com/pics/misc/AGS2013_Selfie.png)
Quote from: Soxbrooker on Sun 09/03/2014 23:54:49
I recorded the whole thing with fraps, I'll try and upload a video soon :)
I couldn't attend, so I'm looking forward to watching it!
Congrats to everyone!I had a feeling Heroine's Quest would do well, but that's amazing. Great work, the awards are well deserved. The game is an amazing feat, and so much fun to play.
Also, I'm happy to see The Art of Dying and The Bum getting awards. And with Troll Song's Demo winning, I'm that much more eager to see the completed game!
Can't wait to see what this next year will bring. Hopefully I'll have an eligible game.
:-D
Thanks to all the organizers for a fun time at the ceremony! It was well worth getting up at 5AM to be there!
Gratz to all the winners!
Now how do we get that groove out of the stage stairs that Radiant wore into them?
Quote from: Mandle on Mon 10/03/2014 03:38:47
Now how do we get that groove out of the stage stairs that Radiant wore into them?
You don't. You have those grooves bronzed so future generations can marvel at them. :=
But someone needs to wipe off the milk I squirted on the inside of the podium. I was excited and surprised. :cool:
I sadly was sound asleep during the awards, congrats to all the winners! :)
Couldn't make it, either. Stupid work! :( Hope you all had a great time yesterday...
Well done Stu! And well done Radiant + team, Ponch and all winners and nominees. Sorry I couldn't make it, I'll check out that video though :)
Damn it, missed the ceremony...
Congratulations to all the winners and nominees.
Special congrats to Ponch and CW, you guys truly deserve those awards.
It was a wonderful ceremony!
I spent a very good time with all of you guys. I had a lot of fun expecially with "LeChuck-Dance".
Thanks to bicilotti, dualnames and the whole staff.
Congratz to all winners. I'm very happy for Ponch, for Time stone, The Art od Dying, The BUM (great!!), HQ and of course for Troll Song by CaptainDEMO (LOL... he's not Captain Neml, he's definitely CaptainDemo).
Congrats to all the winners! But beware: one day... ONE DAY... I will defeat all of you in a single blow -- Ragnarok style! (laugh)
;)
Also, on a patriotic note -- congrats to my buddy Gribbler. Poooooolska goooola!
Thanks a lot to everybody that voted, that was there last night and congratulations to all other winners and nominees. It was a blast and I'm very happy that The Art of Dying won Best Programming and Best Non-Adventure Game! Now I'm super-motivated to work on more games with AGS! :)
I wasn't there in the client because it kept crashing with the invalid string length exception so I have no idea what happened with lesbians and peep shows. Unfortunately.
Congrats to all the winners, and of course especially to the Heroine's Quest gang :)
Congratulations to all the winners! That was a fun and original ceremony. And the first one I attended.
I'll be back for next year! Haha!
Here is the link to the video I took from last night! it has a couple of jump cuts as the game crashed a couple of times!
AGS Awards 2013 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pb03pzWyEJU&feature=youtu.be)
(Okay, its LIVE now!)
Congratulations to everyone that won :D
Dualnames is at least pretending to have left this thread, so let's please let this topic be about the AGS Award winners from now on. If you want to complain about the ceremony game, please do it here (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=pm;sa=send;u=6441).
Quote from: Snarky on Mon 10/03/2014 15:14:12
Ponch's greatness is certainly worth putting a spotlight on...
Yes, truly in these troubled times it's the one thing we can all agree upon. My greatness is bringing us together! :=
Soxbrooker: Thanks for the video link. You are awesome. :smiley:
Duals: Please don't go! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nakrQ9jVKM4)
Community: During my acceptance speech, when I said "I'm in lesbians with all of you!", I was referencing
Scott Pilgrim vs. The World, the greatest movie in the history of ever. :cool:
Look mom, I was there, looking just like Indy. I couldn't be at the actual ceremony because I had real world business to attend. Stupid reality! I wonder if the Indiana Clones were able to attend... Congratulations all. And let's all clap our hands for the bot!
I felt like Di Caprio at the Oscar Ceremony :~(
Ahahahah (laugh)
Quote from: AprilSkies on Mon 10/03/2014 16:57:08
I felt like Di Caprio at the Oscar Ceremony :~(
Ahahahah (laugh)
Being nominated
is a recognition to be very proud of, for every movie/actor/game/developer!
Keep making great games April!
I felt bad for AprilSkies not getting a win, but the competition was so strong. Any of the nominees for Best Background Art would have been worthy winners.
I was also pleased to see Gribbler's Bum get Best Playable Character.
Congrats to all winners AND nominees - but especially to Crystal Shard.
Yeah bici.
I consider it a real honor. I'm sincerely very happy for that.
Just making fun of myself (laugh)
... and my new game will be soon on the "games in production" thread :tongue:
(and thanx Captain :-[)
Quote from: AprilSkiesI felt like Di Caprio at the Oscar Ceremony
Before the Ceremony I was predicting in this thread I'm gonna go and pull a DiCaprio at the Awards. So you swept it right from under my nose! You! :)
Quote from: AprilSkiesand my new game will be soon on the "games in production" thread
I'm also working on a game but it's too soon for "games in production" thread. It might take a while as I'm still coping with fatherhood and fighting for more free time. One thing is certain, I'm taking a break with comedy and this time gonna try something more serious...
Quote from: Soxbrooker on Mon 10/03/2014 14:40:04
Here is the link to the video I took from last night!...
You are the best - thanks alot!
(http://www.smileyvault.com/albums/userpics/12962/thankusmile.gif)
I enjoyed the ceremony very much!
It's been silly, funny and with lots of familiar people around
... and even an extra step for the little ones at the mic :grin:
(http://www.smileyvault.com/albums/userpics/12962/congratulations.gif)
to all the winners!
I watched a video of this ceremony.
I'm happy I did not come to this ceremony. lesbians jokes are lame and ruin everything. I hope the next one will be better.
Congratulations for all winners.
Yeah, I hope the next one will be much better. Let's make jokes about lesbian nuns!
I want to thank everyone that attended the ceremony (so not myself unfortunately :(), Soxbrooker for recording it (thank you thank you thank you!), all the nominees and winners of the various categories: Radiant and his team for (almost as impressively as Vince) sweeping the show but luckily still leaving some awards for other developers (such a good sportsmanship!), Crimson Wizard for his innovations (yes there wasn't any doubt there), and a special thank to Ponch who is finally undicaprioed after making me cringe a couple of times the last few awards (you deserve it!) and of course the awards team: Don Bicilotti for hosting the damn thing, and Duals for updating the client despite getting no help from me this year (count half of those crashes to me), and lastly anyone who I forgot but probably will ninja-edit in there pretending nothing happened!
I also want to congratulate not only to all the winners, but to all the nominees as well. Being nominated is a great accomplishment by itself. Good job, everyone!
Just noticed that my comments were branched off into in the other thread, so again congratulations to AGS Lifetime Achievement Award Winner Ponch, and everyone who took home an award! I recall being jaw droppingly impressed with The Art of Dying the first time I fired it up, and it is probably my favorite AGS non-adventure game. Also, additional congrats to anyone who made it far enough to even have a game nominated. Good times were had playing the entries!
We should create a "game with the least awards" award.
Just to make sure Crystal Shard doesn't get all the awards each time they release a game. :D
Quote from: Monsieur OUXX on Tue 11/03/2014 12:39:09
We should create a "game with the least awards" award.
Just to make sure Crystal Shard doesn't get all the awards each time they release a game. :D
I *think* only a couple of games manages to pull that (winning every award for which they were nominated :P)
This page (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/site/games/awards/#nominees) shows the games with the most nominations and (further up) those with most awards. An easy comparison could be made to work out the biggest non winners.
Very clearly 11 nominations for 'A Second Face - The Eye of Geltz is watching Us':
Nominated, Best Gameplay 2008
Nominated, Best Dialogue Writing 2008
Nominated, Best Puzzles 2008
Nominated, Best Player Character 2008
Nominated, Best Character Art 2008
Nominated, Best Animation 2008
Nominated, Best Programming in an Adventure 2008
Nominated, Best Sound Effects 2008
Nominated, Best Music 2008
Nominated, Best Tutorial or Documentation 2008
Nominated, Best Voice Work 2008
(and won three others)
Quote from: AGA on Tue 11/03/2014 13:57:38
This page (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/site/games/awards/#nominees) shows the games with the most nominations and (further up) those with most awards. An easy comparison could be made to work out the biggest non winners.
Interesting stats. And since we are here, this year the whole weightlifting for the Awards (page setup, voting time, banners, db updating) has been incredibly smooth (as usual) and... almost 100% fully-automated. I am the only one who can directly experience this it, and it's a blast! Big kudos AGA!
Huge congratulations to all the winners and nominees, especially the Crystal Shard team and Ponch! Well deserved wins and nominations all around!
In case you didn't notice, AGS Awards categories discussion (http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/forums/index.php?topic=50187.msg636484161#msg636484161).
Dear ponch I hate you for getting the lifetime award that I never got. Barn runner is obviously inferior to the Princess Marian saga!
Also, congratulations.
Due to me being in and out of hospital over the last two weeks, I missed awards night. Sorry, bici. :~(
But congrats on another fine ceremony, and congrats to all those lovely wieners!
Bump. To say this thread is now un-stickied and so will reside on pages past. Congrats to the weiners! wieners? winners :)