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Messages - Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens

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1
Competitions & Activities / Re: Monster Workshop - Week 2
« on: 21 May 2013, 23:42 »
Cerno:  Your image reminds me of one of those medieval stained-glass windows in a cathedral :).  I would almost suggest trying to make it look like a stained glass scene, just to see how it turned out.

2
Competitions & Activities / Re: Monster Workshop - Week 2
« on: 21 May 2013, 17:19 »
Finally had some more time to work on this.  I've added some slimy scale texture to the monster as well as pushed some muscle definition, lowered the angle of the cliff a bit more as Ryan suggested, and started adding rudimentary details to the water.  The wings also have some form now and I'm seriously thinking of moving the lighthouse beam so it doesn't cross the lightning.



Mordalles:  Yours is really starting to show some definition and I love the design you've given the monster.  It's not something I'd want to have to confront :).

Sookiesock:  At first I wasn't sure where you were going with the tree monster design but it's really looking impressive now!  The pose confuses me somewhat as it's difficult for me to imagine your monster capable of grasping anything without an opposable thumb and I think the fingers would benefit greatly from being made to resemble gnarled branches rather than smooth, sharp bone-like claws.

Ben304:  Nice package!  Seriously though, I like the arcane setting you've put your monster in and the colors you're using.  It should be a very atmospheric image when you're done.

Miguel:  I like the monster design a lot but I can't help but feel like he's just pasted into the background rather than a part of it.  I think this has to do with you having designed the monster separately and then tried to 'fit' him into a room and his general stance and angle just don't line up as a result.  It may be a little late, but flipping the entrance horizontally would align the monster more with his perspective.  You could also tilt his right foot downward about 20 degrees and turn his right foot towards the viewer more so it looks like he's moving forward instead of side-stepping.

Andail:  The setting is really nice but something bothers me about the sudden drop off in the road.  Hopefully the monster will become less indistinct since it is the focal point of the activity.




3
Competitions & Activities / Re: Monster Workshop - Week 2
« on: 17 May 2013, 19:15 »
Tiny update.  Focused mainly on the clouds (I'm pretty happy with how they turned out) and added some more visibility to the light house and land masses on the horizon.  Still need to start tackling the water and other stuff.  Also I re-added the monsters' beak because I wasn't quite happy with it the way it was.



Miguel:  Is the light house easier to see now?  I'm still not finished with it.

4
Competitions & Activities / Re: Monster Workshop - Week 2
« on: 17 May 2013, 02:29 »
Okay, so I decided to start applying some basic colors today before going back and pushing shadows and highlights some more.  I also redrew the hero entirely at a higher vantage with him crouched behind some rocks and preparing to fire.  I spent most of my time playing around with colors for the 'evil' clouds and the monster so I didn't get very far with the cliff or the water.  I'm liking how it is turning out, though.



5
Competitions & Activities / Re: Monster Workshop - Week 2
« on: 16 May 2013, 02:49 »
Ilyich:

I really like what you did with the thumbnail!  It didn't occur to me to keep the monster's face in silhouette like that but I'm liking how it looks.  The green is also a nice touch for the clouds, though I want to experiment with tarnished reds and save the green for the big monster himself.  I do really like the overall effect, though, and I might give something like that a try.

6
Competitions & Activities / Re: Monster Workshop - Week 2
« on: 15 May 2013, 18:04 »
Loominous:
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The second thing would be to get the shooter to pop, which is one of the challenges of the image. I think introducing some artificial light would be nice here, say, from a lamp, or torch on the ground. This would have some benefits: for starters, it would illuminate him, as there's little light at his spot. Secondly, it would provide warm light, that would contrast against the rest, and make him pop and add colour variation. Thirdly, it would help bring him closer, atmosphere wise, since we interpret warm coloured objects as being closer to us, further making him pop, and giving depth to the bg.

Just as important as the shooter, I'd really make the wizard at the edge pop, perhaps he's holding a staff with some nice lighting effects.

I was considering having a lamp but the idea is that he's doing this covertly and doesn't dare draw any attention to himself, so I introduced the idea of the lighthouse light shining in that direction and giving SOME illumination to his position.  As far as the cultist, eventually the book he's holding (the necronomicon) will be lit up as he holds it up for the Elder God to take.  I'm also experimenting with bringing a tornado-like effect from it going up into the clouds.

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Though this is messier, I'd also experiment with lowering the horizon. It shouldn't really affect the monster to any degree, and mostly the cliff. It would mess up the triangular composition to a degree, but I think it would be worth it, and should be solvable. Perhaps also moving closer to the shooter, making it feel more immediate, and personal. Having high angles tend to lead to a less urgent, distanced feeling, like watching an action scene from a chopper, rather than a hand held next to the actors.

The horizon seems doable but I'm not sure about bringing the shooter closer.  I kind of like the idea of glancing over his shoulder close up (and it would eliminate the need for drawing another cliff) but at the same time I rather like his pose and such.  I dunno, I have to think about it ._.

7
Competitions & Activities / Re: Monster Workshop - Week 2
« on: 15 May 2013, 16:52 »
Loominous:

I took your advice and zoomed out and did a very rough light and shadow application to the entire image.  I've disabled the layers with the detailed lighting and shadow I did on the two cliffs for now so this will look, as you say, very blobby, especially since I couldn't always see some of the fundamental shapes very well.

Still, I think it turned out quite well, though I want to push the highlights up more on some things and the darks on others.

Here is a thumbnail made at the size I was working on.  What do you think  (it's easier to make out on a darker background for now)?



8
Competitions & Activities / Re: Monster Workshop - Week 2
« on: 15 May 2013, 10:04 »
Loominous:
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The easiest way to ensure the former is to work zoomed out (about the size of the above thumbnail, where you can't see any details), and work on the entire image, trying to make it work as light blobs. If you can show these blobs to someone and they go: "oo, looks like a nice pic!", then you've succeeded, and can start zooming in and add details, knowing that the piece will work as a whole.

I can give it a try.

9
Competitions & Activities / Re: Monster Worskhop - Week 2
« on: 14 May 2013, 22:48 »
Cerno:
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I have no idea what I'm talking about, but is the cultist cliff's perspective correct? Shouldn't it be more flat? As it is, the sniper seems to be on top of their cliff, for which he is too far away laterally. Does that make any sense?

I kind of went with what felt right for the way I wanted to present the Elder God reaching down, so no, it's not accurate.  I'll do what I can to correct it a bit but I rather like the unsettling effect it has when I stare at it. Thanks!

Waheela:
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Improvements... hmm... the thing that distracts me a little from the piece is the perspective of the plateau in the background. It's so slanted that I feel people should be rolling off the side...
...UNLESS THAT'S WHAT YOU WANT ME TO THINK and you're going for the Lovecraftian-style mind-defying geometry look. :-D If that's the case (which I hope it is because that's just @#$%ing awesome), you should push the landscape more. Make more parts of the plateau jut off at weird, gravity-defying angles.

One more thing, and it's small. I'd add a bit of shadow under the gunman's knee. I think it would make his crouch look a little more natural and ground him more on the plateau.

If I'd placed this inside a sunken city or something the off-angle would have been deliberate, with rocks floating around and such, but to be honest I just kind of liked how it slopes toward the Elder God, almost like an arrow.  I'll probably try some correction at the base, or I may add some floating debris around it now that you've given me the idea :).  As far as the gunman goes, I'm going to correct all the shading on him, darkening it to match the background cliff so I'll be sure to take care of the shadows as well as they are probably one of the most ominous aspects of the piece.  Thanks!



10
Competitions & Activities / Re: Monster Worskhop - Week 2
« on: 14 May 2013, 16:40 »
A man, a plan...Panama

Latest:



Please ignore the pure black along the cliffside and the comparatively lighter colors of the right cliff.  The right bit was me playing around with values but I wasn't happy with the contrast and brightness so I tried something different on the cultist cliff and was quite happy with the results.  I will be applying the same approach to the rest of the piece soon :).

11
Snarky: Break up some of the emptiness on the face with extra eyes, nostrils, etc?  Other than that I think it's cool ._.


12
Okay, so I had some time on Sunday and the ear of a certain Ben so I hammered out my final sketch with most of the guidelines and such still included.  Next I'll do a light/dark value paint to start some color rolling.



You can see the full sized version here :) :
http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr218/ProgZmax/deadlydepthsdone_zps4f9c3ae3.png~original

13
Now that I have a plan, I've gone back and made a larger sketch of the Elder God, refining the initial design and bringing it closer to how I want it to look.



Some things I've changed:

1.  Gave it a more defined (less bulky) body.
2.  Reworked the mouth, adding a beak (which I think looks pretty cool).
3.  Made the wings a bit larger, probably will need to make them a bit wider as well.
4.  Adjusted pose to make it look more like it was moving forward and also reaching DOWN.  In the original sketch I have the God reaching up towards the Necronomicon but what I really want is to show his size so in the final version the cliff will be lower and he will be reaching down for the book.

Now that I'm relatively happy with the basic design for my monster I can start on the actual final piece which will include the changes I've made here as well as some more as I improve his anatomy and musculature for the final sketch.

15
Oh no, not another plan!




Alright, I had some time to sit down and condense my ideas into a semi-coherent 'thumbnail' sketch that I am going to use as a reference for the final:




Basically, the things I wanted to show were:

1.  The Elder God (obviously).  He takes center stage in the piece.
2.  The cult summoning him back from the depths using the Necronomicon (and a sacrifice, of course).  I place them in the background on the left.
3.  The hero making one last desperate try to shoot the cult leader before the ritual is complete and the Elder God consumes the Necronomicon (and the world!).

So what I want to portray here is a very dreary setting.  I'm hoping the final will have lots of blues, blue-grays and red-grays.  The ritual being conducted is sending a dark whirlwind from the Necronomicon into the sky, choking out the sunlight so it will need to look very dark and stormy.  The Elder God I'm presenting here is going to look like he's been underwater for quite some time, with a slimy, barnacle-covered appearance as he looms out of the water grasping for the book.
The hero will be in a rather shabby suit with a 1920's-1940's period sniper rifle in his hand, staring down the sights at the head of the cult leader who is wearing long robes that are blowing in the wind.  The cultists are bowed down in front of a pyre which will be the brightest light source in the piece and will be illuminating most of the cliff as well as add some interesting reddish highlights to the otherwise putrid blue-green-gray Elder God.  Behind the cultists will be what looks like the remnants of a greek/atlantean type structure with a sacrificial altar upon which a dead woman will be laying (presumably the romantic interest for the hero).

Hopefully I can take the final image in the direction I want it to go, but I think the plan is a good one visually and provides some good balancing items for the viewer to examine.  I might add something more to the right side but I kind of like the effect of the hero by himself on a neighboring cliff vs. the evil.  It should evoke the same kind of helplessness most Lovecraftian tales illustrate.


Now that I have a plan, I've gone back and made a larger sketch of the Elder God, refining the initial design and bringing it closer to how I want it to look.



Some things I've changed:

1.  Gave it a more defined (less bulky) body.
2.  Reworked the mouth, adding a beak (which I think looks pretty cool).
3.  Made the wings a bit larger, probably will need to make them a bit wider as well.
4.  Adjusted pose to make it look more like it was moving forward and also reaching DOWN.  In the original sketch I have the God reaching up towards the Necronomicon but what I really want is to show his size so in the final version the cliff will be lower and he will be reaching down for the book.

Now that I'm relatively happy with the basic design for my monster I can start on the actual final piece which will include the changes I've made here as well as some more as I improve his anatomy and musculature for the final sketch.


Okay, so I had some time on Sunday (5/13) and the ear of a certain Ben so I hammered out my final sketch with most of the guidelines and such still included.  Next I'll do a light/dark value paint to start some color rolling.



You can see the full sized version here :) :
http://i485.photobucket.com/albums/rr218/ProgZmax/deadlydepthsdone_zps4f9c3ae3.png~original


16
Critics' Lounge / Re: Space Man Sprite - LF Input.
« on: 06 May 2013, 00:49 »
Using/not using Antialiasing isn't a problem but whether you realize it or not you were applying a form of it when you add some darker shades around the side of the helmet/pack/gun so the edges look a bit smoother and pop a bit more visually against the background.  It's not something you have to do but often it improves the presentation.

You're free to use the sprite if you want, but if you're dealing with an android game where there's going to be a lot of scaling you might consider just making the sprites bigger to begin with and then displaying them at whatever resolution works best.  Most people agree that blocky, zoomed in sprites do not look that great.

17
Critics' Lounge / Re: Let's Draw an Ogre!
« on: 05 May 2013, 00:35 »
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This probably sounds confusing, but you go as far as you like with this.

No, it's not confusing at all, really.  I already understand the concept of reflective light quite well and that wasn't really what I was worried about :).  As far as starting from a dark image and applying highlights based on where I would expect reflections to be, that's an interesting approach I have yet to try.  It would make the most sense to me to do something like that in grayscale first. 

18
Critics' Lounge / Re: Space Man Sprite - LF Input.
« on: 04 May 2013, 17:07 »
I think it looks pretty cool, but in terms of readability you need to bear in mind that the smaller the image the more careful you have to be with definition.
I made a quick edit to show you what I mean.

1.  Adjusted colors slightly to make certain colors pop better and be reusable.  Depending on whether or not the game takes place entirely in space or on darker backgrounds you might need to go back and add darker aliasing around the gun and helmet/backpack to prevent blending.
2.  Made the shape of the figure and weapon more distinctive and easier to distinguish.
3.  Added some minor details (a black harness and patch on the leg) to break up the colors and make it easier to read.
4.  Increased the height by one pixel to give the legs a bit more length.  This will help when animating especially.



Hopefully this will help.  Just bear in mind that detail is wasted if the sprite is too small or the parts are not defined well enough.

19
Critics' Lounge / Re: Let's Draw an Ogre!
« on: 04 May 2013, 16:32 »
Frito:

The darker lips look better to me but I'm not really 'bothered' by the brighter ones, either.  Bringing the contrast down a bit would be a good compromise.


Loominous:

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Cool to see you try out hi-res. Could you post the sketch?

I had a look back at my SAI project file and found out that during the process of edits I merged over the sketch I made ;(.  I probably should have considered that someone might want to see the sketch.  Fear not, I'm going to post something else I've been working on a little more seriously that I've broken up into several layers and I'll be happy to send you the pdf for it if you're interested as I'd especially like to know what you would do differently/the same.

Miguel:
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There's no "meat" between the nose and the upper lip. This ogre has too many teeth as well.

Again, this really comes down to personal interpretation or vision of what an ogre does or should look like.  I agree that the upper lip area could stand to protrude more but as for the teeth it's just silly to presume how many/few a fantastical creature should have.  The angle I chose certainly wasn't ideal to maximise depth but I don't quite agree that it looks like a mask, either.

Andail:
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When you pixelate in low-res, you add elements to the picture piece by piece, but that's a method that shouldn't be used in hi-res painting.
Why do you think so?  I'm curious because I've seen some photoshop tutorials both on the net and on youtube that do pretty much what I'm doing and I like their results, and I've never been one to obey 'rules' simply because they exist.  What sort of problems do you foresee happening as a result of doing things this way?


I'm ready to move on from this with some of the tips offered in mind, especially since I didn't do a great job of using layers (I'm still not used to or comfortable with breaking things up).  However, I do have another drawing I was working on a week ago which does have things broken up nicely into layers that I will be posting shortly!

I'll leave the thread open for a week or so in case people want to respond or continue to offer advice.  Onward!

20
Critics' Lounge / Re: Let's Draw an Ogre!
« on: 04 May 2013, 06:23 »
Okay, I had another look at it with fresh eyes and nothing ever looks as good as it did yesterday so I made some changes.

1.  I adjusted the contrast and hue slightly.  It's still colorful but I've evened the tones a bit.  I also changed the lip colors entirely as I was not happy with them.
2.  Did some reworking to the chin/jaw/cheek shading as well as bringing the eyebrows together and integrating them into the head more. 
3.  General fixes here and there, cleaned up some messy shading, added some depth below the cheeks to the lips.
4.  Made the ears connect a bit better to the jawline.



General improvement?  I don't really want to spend too much more time on this drawing since it's practice, I'd rather apply some of the tips to something new and see how that works out.

Renal:
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Concept art or T-Shirt design, I'd be all for your choice of colors.  I'm also curious as to your progression depending on the intent.  If it was concept art, for example, I'd expect it was a case of blocking in one solid color then adding highlights.  If it was a specific coloring of a pre-designed sketch, I'd expect an entirely different approach from the beginning.

It's very conceptual.  I made a very basic sketch and then applied solid colors over it and then began with highlights and shadows and just started blending.  It wasn't meant for any specific project, just practice.

I've had a look at that website before and for some reason none of the free tutorials load for me :(.  I also don't 'paint' like most people I guess so texturing the surface didn't even occur to me as something to do.  If you have some advice on what brushes to use when and for what, please PM them to me (or make a tutorial!) as I'm just going by feel right now and some painting tutorials I've looked at, so if there's faster (or better) ways to achieve nice looking stuff then I definitely want to know.

Thanks!

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