Adventure Game Studio | Forums | Bug and Suggestion Tracker

BigMc · « **on:** 05 Jul 2012, 18:25 »

It would be nice to have the sources of plugins available to make games using them work on all platforms.

I already contacted Kweepa about the OtherRoom and Fire plugins.

I also stumbled across a game that needs the Parallax plugin by Scorpiorus (I think it was a Barn Runner game), but don't know how to contact him. Does somebody know him?

Here is a list of plugins:
http://americangirlscouts.org/agsresources/plugins.html

The plugin sources are collected here:
https://github.com/adventuregamestudio/ags/tree/main/Plugins

To be usable, the plugins sources should be made available under Artistic License 2.0 or a less restrictive license.

Joseph DiPerla · « **Reply #1 on:** 18 Jul 2012, 03:09 »

BigMc · « **Reply #2 on:** 18 Jul 2012, 10:27 »

As I understand it, modules are just bunches of code you can add to your game and it is by design that they are not included into AGS. The sources are all already available, as that's the only way to distribute them. The question there is just if they are properly licensed and if it makes sense to collect them somewhere.

Separate tools are also no plugins.

Please contact the authors of all the things you want open sourced or relicensed. It won't happen from alone.

Joseph DiPerla · « **Reply #3 on:** 18 Jul 2012, 20:46 »

Yes, the code is readily available since modules really are open source. My idea would be to just take the code out of the modules and put it into the engine itself so that its something that the engine itself has as a feature. I guess its not totally necessary since modules are also cross platform, but it would be nice to just have it built in with the hope that someday an editor feature would also be included to make things easier for development.

BigMc · « **Reply #4 on:** 18 Jul 2012, 20:57 »

I don't know if that's a good idea, but please discuss it in a new issue.

Crimson Wizard · « **Reply #5 on:** 18 Jul 2012, 22:38 »

Quote from: Joseph DiPerla on 18 Jul 2012, 20:46

Yes, the code is readily available since modules really are open source. My idea would be to just take the code out of the modules and put it into the engine itself so that its something that the engine itself has as a feature. I guess its not totally necessary since modules are also cross platform, but it would be nice to just have it built in with the hope that someday an editor feature would also be included to make things easier for development.

You know, personally I don't like this idea.
In my opinion, engine should be seen as a core, to which extensions could be attached. I believe engine's general virtue should be extensibility not the amount of features, that only core features, basic functionality useful for average game and average dev should be added to the engine. Other things should be left for the modules.

The only problem related to modules, as I see it, is that they are not very well organized. If we'd have a easy-to-browse categorized list somewhere that would be much easier for people to find them, and their usage will be more extensive.
Also we may choose a number of best and most used modules and ship them with official AGS package.

SpeechCenter · « **Reply #6 on:** 19 Jul 2012, 06:56 »

I think it's best to have an option in the editor to easily find and add those available additions. Could be like Firefox or alternatively like Notepad++.
I'm sure it will make it easier for many users to find it.

I agree integrating the code is not difficult, but changing it to be part of the engine would make it much more difficult to release new versions of the plugins and modules. So CW is correct that improving extensibility with a repository is a good solution

Joseph DiPerla · « **Reply #7 on:** 19 Jul 2012, 16:56 »

Well, the modules could be included into the main distribution package of AGS rather than hard-coded into AGS itself. I would think that what needs to be done is for the modules to be included into the template files that come with the main AGS distribution. Simple enough. However, for the plugins, the concern is that if they are not made to function on a cross platform basis, some games will not work on other Operating Systems, more particularly the mobile OS'. So I would at the very least however want to have a port of the plugins into the engine hard code. Even for the editor. If you are willing to make a plugin, I would suggest you just put it directly into the editors source since it can then be ported via mono to work on other OS.

The one advantage I would see in creating modules and plugins at this point (now that AGS is completely open source) without including it in the main distribution is for when AGS is no longer being actively worked on, or if someone would prefer to sell their modules and plugins. Its even useful for some who do not understand the AGS source code. However, with that said, other than the modules, I would still strongly urge implementing plugins into the ags source, or at the very least, open sourcing the plugins.

In either case, I would also agree that a repository should be created, perhaps directly on the AGS web site.

BigMc · « **Reply #8 on:** 19 Jul 2012, 17:04 »

Quote from: Crimson Wizard on 18 Jul 2012, 22:38

The only problem related to modules, as I see it, is that they are not very well organized. If we'd have a easy-to-browse categorized list somewhere that would be much easier for people to find them, and their usage will be more extensive.

http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/wiki/?title=Category:Modules

Joseph DiPerla · « **Reply #9 on:** 19 Jul 2012, 17:10 »

Who knew?

Crimson Wizard · « **Reply #10 on:** 19 Jul 2012, 18:42 »

Quote from: Joseph DiPerla on 19 Jul 2012, 17:10

Who knew?

I did

First of all, they are not very well organized.
Secondly, many links there do not work.
And at last, but not least... "Who knew?"

I mean, I may be mistaken of course, but I see people asking questions about same things (that could be covered by modules) all the time over and over again. Perhaps there may be some way to make the presence of those modules more explicit.

Wyz · « **Reply #11 on:** 10 Aug 2012, 01:18 »

Well my take on the matter; what I think would be most ideal for Modules and Plugins (disregarding the possibility of the scenarios).

[Plugins]
Plugins will add functionality that is not possible with modules because of engine limitations or efficiency: interfacing with hardware, binding thirdparty libs, optimized data structures etc.
It would be nice if they designed as C++ libraries and are open source and have permissive libraries. That way a game developer can choose to link the plugin statically with the engine executable to keep everything in a tight bundle or for less experienced developers: a DLL or a static object file.
When plugins are kept open source and the licenses are permissive we also ensure that when the original author falls from the face of the earth other people can take over the project. To ensure everything stays organized the plugins should be housed on the same repository as the main project.

[Modules]
Modules are there to save game developers time when they attempt to do something that is perfectly possible with the current engine but has been done over and over. This means they are often made by game developers and not by people who have an indept knowledge of the engine. This is beauty of modules since you don't need to have that knowledge to make great modules. The only downside of modules is that they tend to be all over the place. I like the idea of organizing them and maintaining the licenses though with a slight twist. Imagine a database that contains modules that is accessible directly from AGS. You see who's made the plugin, what it does, what versions it does support, the licence and date when it was last updated (the module version) and a way to contact the original author like a website. When you like what you see as game developer you can select it and it will be downloaded and put in your game. This can be an editor plugin but I'd like it to be part of the editor itself.
There should also be some sort of committee or moderator who tests the plugins and maintains the database. Users might be able to submit their modules and specify if they allow it to be part of games, commercial games, need to be named, allow derivative work: basically the creative commons licencing schema. They van also pick their own licences, but usually noone cares so a simple system will be a good idea.

Calin Leafshade · « **Reply #12 on:** 16 Aug 2012, 19:29 »

+1 for a centralised system for modules (something i have been toying with for a while actually)

-100000 for including modules in the engine source. The whole *point* of modules is that they are modularised.

Dualnames · « **Reply #13 on:** 17 Aug 2012, 13:23 »

"There should also be some sort of committee or moderator who tests the plugins and maintains the database. Users might be able to submit their modules and specify if they allow it to be part of games, commercial games, need to be named, allow derivative work: basically the creative commons licencing schema. They van also pick their own licences, but usually noone cares so a simple system will be a good ide"

That's not an exact answer to this, but it may be something that can be expanded.

http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/wiki/?title=Module_IndexCategory

I haven't bothered with the plugins, because I'm a lazy person.

Crimson Wizard · « **Reply #14 on:** 17 Aug 2012, 13:38 »

Official repository for script modules (already mentioned above) could be a very good idea. Since module maintainers may change over time this will make transferring control to other people easy. Also users may suggest their own solutions to improve module code.

AGS Plugins and Modules

Issue: Obtain sources of plugins

BigMc

Joseph DiPerla

BigMc

Joseph DiPerla

BigMc

Crimson Wizard

SpeechCenter

Joseph DiPerla

BigMc

Joseph DiPerla

Crimson Wizard

Wyz

Calin Leafshade

Dualnames

Crimson Wizard

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