Ignorance & spam promoting idiocy (rant/long).

[TheYak]

The following is an e-mail I received (my ex-in-law : was nice enough to chain-letter me with this).  I am not the author and it does not contain my opinion.
"DON'T BUY IT [referring to new US Postage Stamp]
Phil: How ironic is this??!!  They don't even believe in Christ and they're getting their own Christmas stamp, but don't dream of posting the ten commandments on federal property?  

USPS New Stamp


This one is impossible to believe.  Scroll down for the text.
If there is only one thing you forward today.....let it be this!

REMEMBER the MUSLIM bombing of PanAm
Flight 103!

REMEMBER the MUSLIM bombing of the World
Trade Center in 1993!

REMEMBER the MUSLIM bombing of the Marine
barracks in Lebanon!

REMEMBER the MUSLIM bombing of the military
barracks in Saudi Arabia!

REMEMBER the MUSLIM bombing of the American
Embassies in Africa!

REMEMBER the MUSLIM bombing of the USS COLE!

REMEMBER the MUSLIM attack on the Twin Towers on 9/11/2001!

REMEMBER all the AMERICAN lives that were
lost in those vicious MUSLIM attacks!

Now the United States Postal Service REMEMBERS and HONORS the
EID MUSLIM holiday season with a commemorative first class
holiday postage stamp.

REMEMBER to adamantly and vocally BOYCOTT this stamp
when purchasing your stamps at the post office.    
To use this stamp would be a slap in the face to all those
AMERICANS who died at the hands of those whom this stamp honors.

REMEMBER to pass this along to every patriotic AMERICAN you know.  "  

Oh, yeah.  Crap like this makes me really proud to be American.  Thankfully, not all of the populous is this ignorant.  
The following points are me ranting about the stupidity of this mass e-mail:
1) Irony?  No, it's not, sorry.
2) Don't believe in Christ? Nope, wrong again.  Most muslim sects believe in Christ and many even believe he was a great prophet and the forerunner to Muhammad.  
3) Getting their own Christmas stamp? A) It's for the holiday "Eid" you bloody fool, not Christmas B) There have been Christmas stamps for decades, many of which actually have to do with the birth of Christ.  I have received countless letters that have Christian emblems, statements, etc. on them.  It's not like they're honoring a Muslim holiday and not yours.  Hell, there have been Chanukah stamps for some time.
4) Remember what now?  Damning all Muslims for things done by certain sects would be like damning all of Christianity for the Crusades, Witch-Hunts & Inquisition.   Let every person (or at least every group under the same paster/priest) be responsible for their own actions.

Sorry for the long post, just thought some of you might be interested.  For those who might misinterpret my words (usually by not reading the whole damned post) - I am not saying anything anti-Christian or Anti-semitic by the above.  What I am saying is that this person is giving a bad name to Muslims, Christians, Americans & Patriotic Americans and encouraging the spread of idiocy.  If I could trace the e-mail back (which I will try) and find the he lives in the area, I'm going to corner him and bitch at him a bit.  

I have three reasons for posting 1) to correct a bit of ignorance 2) to get your guys' take on this and 3) to see about feedback I can send back to the author.  

Later.. if the thread bores anyone, just let it sink into oblivion.

[shbaz]

I feel dumber for reading that email, thanks.

[TheYak]

Sorry   But that's kind of my point.  Most people here know better but I'd be amazed if a very high number of Americans didn't go for this shite.  Hell, My ex-in-law (Great phrase) forwarded it to me as a "positive" thing.

[juncmodule]

If I'm not mistaken the US postal service is no longer technically a government institution. It is protected by certain federal laws just the same, but, isn't it a commercial institution now?

How ironic is this??!! They don't even believe in Christ and they're getting their own Christmas stamp, but don't dream of posting the ten commandments on federal property?

I assume that is in reference to putting that ten commandments statue or something on a state capitol or court or something...

ehh...

Many people fail to see anit-Arab sentiments as racism I think. The US government has pushed this modern "crusade" for spreading democracy and doesn't give a crap about the results. Muslims have very little to do with anything in that list of "remember" crap. Fucking wingnut crazy poofter fucks were responsible for those things. That they did it in the name of Islam doesn't mean dick.

So yeah, I agree with you Yak. Our country has become a very sad thing I believe. More so since 9/11.

Look around at the American flags. Decaying, ripping, and falling off of cars, windows...fading away like the fad that was post 9/11 patriotism.

later,
-junc

[scotch]

It's sad that stuff like this can be seen in fairly mainstream circles in the US :/  Even with all the issues over muslim asylum seekers and tensions between communities here (Britain) in some areas, something like that could only be seen in some racist fringe party's propaganda... and even then they might try to sound less racist so they can get a bigger audience.
I think the majority of Americans can see through it though, I hope so.

[TheYak]

There are several breeds of American.  One of them is the Patridiot.  The Patridiot supports his government, no matter what (They're the types who'll argue that the Vietnam war was a good thing).  They also will blindly side with whichever opinion is given the most support in the media.  After all, if everyone else thinks so, how can it be wrong?  Sadly, I could think of at least a dozen people I know (here in the US) that would boycott or protest these stamps at the say-so of the imbecilic author.  

On the subject of the "Flag-fad" I posted a message some time ago.  My neighbors across the street have a 6-foot x 4-foot inflatable, internally lit American flag.  

Agreed, the prejudice (especially recently) against Islam is only one step removed from racism.  It is not a hatred based upon something someone is but something they choose to do.  Unfortunately, quite a bit of anti-semitic feelings get bandied about as well (For those that don't know, Anti-semitism doesn't only refer to the Jewish).  Does anyone mind if I quote them? I've found the author's address and wouldn't mind some nice quote to back up my blathering nonsense.  

[Darth Mandarb]

I've gotten this e-mail before.

I've also gotten one about a little girl who is sick with cancer.  Oddly enough, I got another one with the same picture of the little girl, and this time she'd been kidnapped!!  And if I just send out this e-mail to everybody in my address book we'll find her!!

It's pathetic how the [scumbag] spammers take advantage of people like that.  It just goes back to my thread about Spam.  It's frickin' pathetic and should be illegal.

I hate the fact that Islam gets a bad name.  99.99% of Islam preaches peace, not Jihad.  It's these damn terrorist scumbags that cause the problem.  It's the hitch hiker syndrome ... 1 outta 1000 hitch hikers means you harm, but because of that 1 asshole, nobody picks up hitch hikers.

The popular term "racial profiling" pisses me off though.  The TV show "The Shield" had a line where an Arabic guy was getting harrassed by his neighbor and he said, "She's picking on me 'cause I'm Arabic!" and the cop said, "No, she's doing that because 12 guys that look like your twin brother crashed planes into 3 buildings"

There are VERY few people in America who could say, "Well given his accent and verbal inflection I'd say he's Kurdish from Norther Iraq"  Just as there are very few people in the Middle East who could say, "Well given his accent and verbal inflection I'd say he's from the southern US ... most likely Georgia"  

My point?  Most Americans can't tell 1 middle eastern accent/person apart from another and the terrorist groups have members from ALL across the mid-east.  There's NO way to know for sure who is 'the bad guy' and because of that, whether people like it or not, there's going to be 'profiling' going on.

It's unfortunate.

])]v[

[remixor]

Geez, what an absurd email.  Hooray for being totally moronic.

The popular term "racial profiling" pisses me off though.  The TV show "The Shield" had a line where an Arabic guy was getting harrassed by his neighbor and he said, "She's picking on me 'cause I'm Arabic!" and the cop said, "No, she's doing that because 12 guys that look like your twin brother crashed planes into 3 buildings"

I've never seen that show, so I'm not sure about the context.  Was the cop being made out to look like the good guy, or was he an asshole cop?  If it's the former case, then that's really disgusting.

[TheYak]

On another note, just browsed SomethingAwful's Weekend Web.  

Some people are under the impression that the so-called Information Age would make people better educated and more intelligent.  Apparently, it merely allows more stupid people to be heard.  I found it amusing and depressing all at once.

[Nacho]

4) Remember what now?  Damning all Muslims for things done by certain sects would be like damning all of Christianity for the Crusades, Witch-Hunts & Inquisition.   Let every person (or at least every group under the same paster/priest) be responsible for their own actions.

Buff! the muslims´ prosecution was 600 years ago. In that time, Europe was the "Taliban Regime", Arabia was the cradle of a nice culture. Nowaday it´s changed... Havn´t they evolutioned in all that time?

Now, let´s remember that in the last 3 years integrist attacks have killed more than 5,000 people in the world.

But I think that not all the muslims are integrists, but I POO in that "Iman Sons of a bitch" who tell the poor ignorants to put explosive belts in their bodies to kill people in the name of God. The best way to reach heaven, ha!

Fuck them!

Definitely, I am with the good muslim people of peace.

I hate the integrists. Burn in hell.

If I had the chance to choose, I´d buy another stamp.

[Matt Brown]

What really concerns me here is how quickly the popular image of the muslims have changed in American. 30 years ago, nobody would have a problem. But because of the tragic actions of some radicals, they are persicuted by many in America.

This got me thinking

What if, one day, some wacko mormon or some wacko Brazilian-American blows up a building? starting sniping people? I'm fucked!

A backlash like this can hit any minority group.

[makri]

I'm surprised how people seem to be unable to talk about 9/11 or terrorism in general without using the word "muslim". And how the same people don't see any connection between actions and religion if the religion of a criminal is christianity or judaism.

[shbaz]

Yeah! Our real problem is white middle class christian men, like that timothy fellow who bombed our once awesome federal building in OKC.  We've gotta get those bastards out of here.

[Oliver]

but how? :o

[Darth Mandarb]

Remixor - She wasn't an asshole, but they weren't really making her the good guy either.

The point I took from it was what I commented on later in that post about how most people can't differentiate middle easterners.  The Arab man was yelling that the neighbor should be tolerant and the cop was basically saying, "so should you!"

Racial Profiling happens everywhere ... it just seems like America gets the most shit for it.  Like we're not allowed or something.  When I was in Belize a few months back I got swarmed by the locals 'cause they figured "white american ... must have money!!!"  one fellow even told me that!!  Same thing happened when we were in the Bahamas 2 months ago.  It's acceptable in those places though ... just not in America were we have to be PC all the time.

[DGMacphee]

The Shield probably isn't the best example of racial profiling -- I mean, it's a cop show about corrupt cops, so obviosuly there's a certain mentality there that's dramatised.

[Nacho]

It´s usual to say by occidental good purpose people that radical muslims are a minority, and some day some crazy Cristian could do the same. Let´s examine the sentence... Are cristians doing that? No, we´re 3,000 milions and no one of us uses the name of God for killing... Our believs are not so strong, which for me implies that (and I hope that this won´t bring another religious discussion) that we´re not so ignorant as they are.

While in Occident a group of "fanatics" are considered "fools" (David Coresh), In some of the muslims countries the same groups are looked with sympathy (Jihad, Al Qaeda, Al Aksa Martirs...)

Groups like that are growing and they are being created even in moderate muslim countries (Yes, the turk group who killed more than 70 people last month eas a branch of Al-Qaeda, but composed of Turks)... You can blame that situation to whatever, but I don´t see mass affiliations to terrorist groups in non-muslims countries...

We must blame the muslims priests who are demanding young muslim people to kill for God. Let´s remember that 1/4 of the young palestinians want to be a suicide bomber.

I agree with Yaksplit, blaming a whole community, like the stamp boycott stuff for a group of radicals is stupid, but killing a group or 30-40 Jewish for reaching Heaven is so much stupid than that.

People has allways the chance to choose. We decide how to life, to respect each others ot not, to believe in God, we choose how to live and die. And most of the muslims choose to die killing people, in the inmense ignorance of believing that that is good.

What I mean is that the stamp boycott is a minor show of angry compared with what they are doing to us.

[makri]

Are cristians doing that? No, we´re 3,000 milions and no one of us uses the name of God for killing...

If Bush's crusade against muslims in Iraq wasn't killing in the name of Christian God then nothing is.

[Darth Mandarb]

The Shield probably isn't the best example of racial profiling -- I mean, it's a cop show about corrupt cops, so obviosuly there's a certain mentality there that's dramatised.

True dat.

Although the cop that said it wasn't one of the corrupt cops (at least at that point in the series).  I haven't really watched the show since then though, so she might be corrupted by now!!

])]v[

[Nacho]

Are cristians doing that? No, we´re 3,000 milions and no one of us uses the name of God for killing...

If Bush's crusade against muslims in Iraq wasn't killing in the name of Christian God then nothing is.

No, it has nothing to do with religion, it has to see with a culture, the muslim one, who was inmensely happy when two towers with 3,000 people inside collapsed.

Anyway, the Occidental society wars not happy with the war, whereas the muslims are happy of the wars and they applause the terrorists and the fighters. They make cellebrations when the terrorist strikes succed, we make manifestations against war...

Ergo, the Occidental society is better than the Oriental? Well, the fact that you write a post complaining about the war, discussing with me if the war on Irak was a war related with Religion or not is an evidence that Occidental and Oriental cultures are different.

In many Muslim countries, such a discussion about the government actions would finish with a quick trial and a shot in the head of the person who complains (examples, Nigeria, Argelia, Iran, Malaysia...)

I don´t think that the muslim people is worst than us, but I think that their governments are worst.

I can assume that your previous post means that you agree with me.

Edit: And, ah! Bush won´t probably be re-elected, whereas in most of the muslims countries the rules is the king, with a fake democracy, another advantadge of our society in front of them.

[shbaz]

No, it has nothing to do with religion, it has to see with a culture, the muslim one, who was inmensely happy when two towers with 3,000 people inside collapsed.

Um.. that would be Afghanistan, not Iraq.  The reasons Bush listed for invading were almost entirely lies.  If we invaded every country that was happy for our loss, there wouldn't be such a thing as an Arab state in five years.

[Nacho]

No, it has nothing to do with religion, it has to see with a culture, the muslim one, who was inmensely happy when two towers with 3,000 people inside collapsed.

Um.. that would be Afghanistan, not Iraq.  The reasons Bush listed for invading were almost entirely lies.  If we invaded every country that was happy for our loss, there wouldn't be such a thing as an Arab state in five years.

The reason listed are a lie. The truth is that 11/9 showed a valuable lesson. If you forget the dictatorial states, something wrong can happen to you. That´s why Bush attacked Iraq, and he should go on with Iran, Sirya and North Corea.

You should read Ian Kershaw´s biography about Hitler. His first steps about an agressive foreign politic were very very small (like the militarization of the Ruhr), and the Nations league did nothing. A few years after he invaded Poland.

And that´s the problem... Whereas in democracies if a president becomes mad he´d probably won´t be re-elected, in dictatorial states you can´t messure the threat they represent in the 4-year standart time of a democracy, because dictators may rule a country 30-40 years, or pass the power to his sons, as Saddam expected (We could be talking of a dictadure of more than 60-70 years) In that time, if we let them be re-armed, the threath could be enormously dangerous.

There is a quote "The best that may happen to the evil is that the good men do nothing". Sometimes fighting is disgusting, and not easy to understand, but I do.

[makri]

The reason listed are a lie. The truth is that 11/9 showed a valuable lesson. If you forget the dictatorial states, something wrong can happen to you. That´s why Bush attacked Iraq, and he should go on with Iran, Sirya and North Corea.

As you pointed out here, the greatest risk for world's security is not Iran, Syria or North Korea, it's The United States. Someone should stop that country.

[shbaz]

Huh? I'm not arguing against stopping dictorial states, I'm just saying that Iraq wasn't conquered because of 9/11.  That was just the excuse.  The Taliban were a regime, not a dictatorship.  That country was also in Civil War already anyways.

I believe that Iraq occupation is for the best and we should at least attempt to slow down Iran and Korea, but people get the reasons for doing so mixed up.  When you mix up the reasons you end up doing ignorant things like.. boycotting a stamp that doesn't benefit Muslims at all anyways.  Ignorance isn't bliss for me, and so I love talking about stuff like this because if I'm wrong on the internet, someone is damn sure going to point it out... but I don't think I'm wrong when I say Bush used the ignorance of the American public to wrongly justify what he did.  If he'd left out all of the nonsense and lies about nuclear testing and 9-11 connections the world public might not have been so pissed off about it either.

[Nacho]

The reason listed are a lie. The truth is that 11/9 showed a valuable lesson. If you forget the dictatorial states, something wrong can happen to you. That´s why Bush attacked Iraq, and he should go on with Iran, Sirya and North Corea.

As you pointed out here, the greatest risk for world's security is not Iran, Syria or North Korea, it's The United States. Someone should stop that country.

Yes, makri, the US citizens will probably stop him not re-electing Bush, while in Dictatorial muslims countries nobody would do.

And yes, Shbazjinkens, compare dictatorship countries with a stamp made by american muslims, most of them born in US, is a show of ignorancy, but since 5 or 6 years ago, the first 10-15 minutes of every tele-news are dedicated to show inslamist terrorist strikes, which makes many people look without confidence any show of muslim culture. I don´t share it (In fact, I go every month to eat with my girlfriend to my friend Abdul´s restaurant, specialized in Moroccoean food), but I understand it.

[DGMacphee]

No, we´re 3,000 milions and no one of us uses the name of God for killing.

What about the Crusades?

the muslims are happy of the wars and they applause the terrorists and the fighters.

I recently spoke to someone who trained CNN journalists to adapt with hostile environments -- He had recently returned from 2 weeks in Baghdad.

The reaction he got from a lot of Muslims in Iraq was one of anti-war -- He told me the majority of Muslims just want to continue living out their lives instead of seeing war breaking out.

Um.. that would be Afghanistan, not Iraq. The reasons Bush listed for invading were almost entirely lies. If we invaded every country that was happy for our loss, there wouldn't be such a thing as an Arab state in five years.

And even then, it wasn't really Afghanistan as the cause of 9/11.

Bush sent forces to overthrow the Taliban due to the belief they were habouring terrorist groups such as Al-Qaeda (supposedly the cause of 9/11).

However, the move generated a lot of general anti-Afghanistan sentiment in the US at the time, which is sad because the citizens of Afghanistan had nothing to do with 9/11.

And the US government still hasn't found Osama.

If you forget the dictatorial states, something wrong can happen to you. That´s why Bush attacked Iraq, and he should go on with Iran, Sirya and North Corea.

No, Bush did not attack Iraq because it was a dictatorship and was mass-murdering people -- Iraq has been a dictatorship for over two decades and slaughtered many citizens in that time, so I doubt the US government suddenly woke up and said 'Let's liberate these people'.

The US government's publicly-stated reasons for invading Iraq were due to the belief that they were a) developing weapons of mass destruction to sell to terrorists, and b) harbouring terrorists.

(There's also c) the oil reason too, but that's a debate that's been had many times before in this forum, so I won't press on with it)

Anyway, to address these two points: a) the weapons of mass destruction still haven't been found yet and b) only a few minor terrorists were found (the most major player was one that hi-jacked an ocean liner -- none were members of Al-Qaeda or had any relation to 9/11, and the White House has admitted this)

You should read Ian Kershaw´s biography about Hitler. His first steps about an agressive foreign politic were very very small (like the militarization of the Ruhr), and the Nations league did nothing. A few years after he invaded Poland.

You can't compare the Nazi dictatorship to the Iraqi dictatorship if you're trying to argue that Muslim dictactorships enact bloodshed based upon their culture (which you previously said).

Hitler wasn't a Muslim nor (to my knowledge) was any other member of the Nazi party.

So, how can you first say that Muslim dictatorships enact violence based on their culture and then make a comparison to a non-Muslim dictatorship?

[SSH]

No, we´re 3,000 milions and no one of us uses the name of God for killing.

What about the Crusades?

I'm not sure that any current living Christians were around then... but feel free to produce a really old guy and prove me wrong. Anyway... if it weren't for the crusades, Indy wouldn't have found the holy grail! If you want to find people advocating killing in God's name then Northern Ireland has quite a few using that excuse.

You should read Ian Kershaw´s biography about Hitler. His first steps about an agressive foreign politic were very very small (like the militarization of the Ruhr), and the Nations league did nothing. A few years after he invaded Poland.

You can't compare the Nazi dictatorship to the Iraqi dictatorship if you're trying to argue that Muslim dictactorships enact bloodshed based upon their culture (which you previously said).

Hitler wasn't a Muslim nor (to my knowledge) was any other member of the Nazi party.

So, how can you first say that Muslim dictatorships enact violence based on their culture and then make a comparison to a non-Muslim dictatorship?

I thought that he was commenting on Hitler's  miitary tactics more than his motivation. To say that someone has drawn a  parallel in motivation therefore they can't compare tactics with someone of a different motivation is just bad logic.

I'm not saying he's right, just that your arguments are logically flawed.

[DGMacphee]

I'm not sure that any current living Christians were around then... but feel free to produce a really old guy and prove me wrong. Anyway... if it weren't for the crusades, Indy wouldn't have found the holy grail! If you want to find people advocating killing in God's name then Northern Ireland has quite a few using that excuse.

I was merely pointing out the hypocrasy in trying to portray Christians as innocents.

Besides, you've only just added weight to my initial question with your second point.

You can't compare the Nazi dictatorship to the Iraqi dictatorship if you're trying to argue that Muslim dictactorships enact bloodshed based upon their culture (which you previously said).

Hitler wasn't a Muslim nor (to my knowledge) was any other member of the Nazi party.

So, how can you first say that Muslim dictatorships enact violence based on their culture and then make a comparison to a non-Muslim dictatorship?

I thought that he was commenting on Hitler's  miitary tactics more than his motivation. To say that someone has drawn a  parallel in motivation therefore they can't compare tactics with someone of a different motivation is just bad logic.

No, bad logic is trying to say Bush invaded Iraq because of 9/11.

Besides, he wasn't comparing military tactics -- He was comparing dictatorships, if you'll read his next few lines.

I don't see how it's bad logic to ask for clarification on bringing up the relevance of a non-muslim dictatorship comparison when a) this entire thread is about Muslims and Muslim dictatorships b) he previously stated that attacks by Muslim dictatorships were based upon their culture.

[Nacho]

Yes, Crusades were 1,000 years ago. Mentioning the cruzades for telling that we did religious wars make me think:

"Are the muslims so mad/crazy as we were in the Middle age?"

If the answer is "yes" the conclussion is: We have advanced, they haven´t.

Ergo, the lack of confidence by many people in his culture is logical.

And I haven´t said that the 9/11 provocated the war on Iraq. I told that the the strike awakened a feeling: Dictatorial countries are impredictible and they may attack in any moment, that feeling provocated the war (that´s why I deffend a bombing to the Iranian and S. Korean nuclear facilities, and Korea is not Muslim, I think)

[Las Naranjas]

ETA
UDA
IRA
Pro Life
Phalange

To rattle off the first few Christian terrorist organistations I can think of.

There are more, in Indonesia and India, but they only kill brown people, so we don't hear about it.

[Nacho]

First of all:

Falange never was a terrorist group, it was like a armed arm of the Fascist army. It is like saying that The SS were a terrorist cristian group.

ETA: They demand the independence, they are cristians killing cristians.

Tha main motivation of many of others you mentioned was the independence... Which was the motivation of killing 300 people in a disco in Bali? Which one killing 3,000 in Manhattan? Which one 50 in Istambul? I see that my argument shakes when I talk in the "resistence" in Iraq, because we could see some parallelism in the Euskadi situation (occupation--->resistence)

But what Malaysia, Turkey, Argelia... Are they occupated? By who? O_O???

[Pau]

I've seen 'Bowling for Columbine' and there is a list of criminal actuations of the USA goverment like giving suppot for dictators against democratic goverments (like in Chile), giving money to the taliban...
You won't see that on the newspaper.
So this is like a crusade, but the motivation isn't religion, but money.

This kind of actuation, make grow the hate against USA in other countries.

The worst of all is that the guilties (governors) get no problems, but the innocent (people) get killed, and the revenge of them (with terrorist attacks or hollywood-like wars) affects people again.

I think it's not a problem of religion, it's money. That's only an easy (and fake)explanation to say muslims are mad and want to explode themselves just for fun and the USA (as a universal judge) must fix it.

[DGMacphee]

Falange never was a terrorist group, it was like a armed arm of the Fascist army. It is like saying that The SS were a terrorist cristian group.

ETA: They demand the independence, they are cristians killing cristians.

Tha main motivation of many of others you mentioned was the independence...

I don't think Pro-Life had anything to do with gaining independence.

You also justify a lot of the actions of Christian groups (i.e. they weren't an actual terrorist group, they were gaining independence, they are only fighting other christians, etc)

Does that mean that a Christian extremist's right to kill outweighs a Muslim extremist's right to kill?

And I haven´t said that the 9/11 provocated the war on Iraq. I told that the the strike awakened a feeling: Dictatorial countries are impredictible and they may attack in any moment, that feeling provocated the war (that´s why I deffend a bombing to the Iranian and S. Korean nuclear facilities, and Korea is not Muslim, I think)

I think this had more to do with the spin-doctoring of the US, and not an 'awakening' of a feeling.

[Nacho]

Falange never was a terrorist group, it was like a armed arm of the Fascist army. It is like saying that The SS were a terrorist cristian group.

ETA: They demand the independence, they are cristians killing cristians.

Tha main motivation of many of others you mentioned was the independence...

I don't think Pro-Life had anything to do with gaining independence.

You also justify a lot of the actions of Christian groups (i.e. they weren't an actual terrorist group, they were gaining independence, they are only fighting other christians, etc)

Does that mean that a Christian extremist's right to kill outweighs a Muslim extremist's right to kill?

WHERE ON MY LINES CAN YOU SEE A JUSTIFICATION FOR ANY KIND OF TERRORISM??? MY POINT ABOUT ETA IS A GROUP OF CRISTIANS KILLING CRISTIANS HAS TO BE TAKEN AS "They´re not fighting for religion, their stupid leit-motive is another"

ALL THE TERRORIST ARE A BUNCH OF STUPID SONS OF A BITCH!!!1!! Do you know any terrorist DGMacPhee? I don´t, but  in some Muslims countries the breakdown of people who want to became terrorist is 25% (I.E. Palestinian) That means that there must be one or 2 guys in each family who want to become a terrorist.

I say that there are less Cristian terrorist groups than Islamic... ergo, there are more stupid Muslims than cristians.

That must be caused IMHO for their education, because I don´t think that any race is worst than other by DNA matters.

Now you´ll say that "There is a lot of US schools who have religion as a subject, and they´re so radical as the Islamic terrorists and bla bla bla bla...

So, if you have any doubt I´ll write to you in big capital letters "I DON´T LIKE CRISTIANS RADICAL GROUPS EITHER"

They´re also fool... and if you want me to explain you how ridiculous is for me the existance of God, PM me and I´ll pass you some docs I´ve written about that.

[DGMacphee]

Settle down, boy-o!

I was just asking such questions to make sure I understand your point of view.

Don't go all caps-crazy on my ass, man!

[Nacho]

Let me explain myself, point by pint, and say " true" or false"  :

I told: 1) Muslims have been educationed in a way that I undestand that can´t be easily undersood by the Occidental culture, The high number of religious terrorist groups they have is an evidence of that.

Las Naranjas replied: There are also a lot of Cristian terrorist groups!

I replied: Many of that you mentioned are not Religious-motived groups.

You said: Are you justifying the terrorist cristians gropus?

I reply: No! I hate all the terrorists, fuck them all! But there are less cristian motived terrorists than muslims.

My question is: Do you agree? Are there more muslim terrorist than cristians?

If you say "yes", we can discuss of how guilty "the occiedental" culture is for that. We could advancein our discussion and even reach to an underastanding.

If you say "No". We´ve reached to an alley and the discussion will end, because for me, there is a FACT that there are more muslims terrorism than the occidentals.

[SSH]

Farlancer: It depends on whether you count the US Army as terrorists or not...

[DGMacphee]

What if I say "What difference does it make whether there are or are not more muslim terrorist groups than christian terrorist groups?"

Either way, people are going to get killed.

[Igor]

>>ergo, there are more stupid Muslims than cristians<<
There, there... : you see, that's the reason why i don't like religion groups

[makri]

Yes, makri, the US citizens will probably stop him not re-electing Bush, while in Dictatorial muslims countries nobody would do.

Democracy isn't always the best option. In an ideal world, people should have no saying in who rules and how, as majority of any given nation is without exeption too dumb to know what's good for them. Democracy should never be implemented in Iraq.

As for the U.S., as we can see, one term is plenty enough time for a president to terrorize the rest of the world.

[Nacho]

Well, Igor, that sentence that made your eyer roll was a stupid simplification, made by me, which I´m not very proud about   But I still believe that there is something wrong in their education, something  that I can´t see clear...

DG: You haven´t answered my question: My intention was you to say: "Yes, they´re more muslim terrorist, but because of bla bla bla..." and they, trying to explain which are they motivations, reaching to a final and common conclussion, but if you don´t want to discuss, ok, no problemo,  .

SSH: Yes, scottish, as usual, good point.

So, let´s turn the argument. One powerful Muslim country (Or Sintoist, or Hindú or David Koreshian, I don´t mind...) Invades a Cristian country, let´s suppose, France, ok? (Analogy, US attacks Iraq)

There are three more smaller Muslims countries whose leaders support the invasion of that country, ok? (Analogy, Spain, UK, Portugal)

Should I run to join a terrorist group to attack one of thet two little countires? The answer is: No. If some Muslim attacks France, fuck la France!  

Attacking an ally? Why? What have that guys made to me? It´s problems is with the french guys, why should I deal with their problem?

But that´s what many or Moroccoean guys are doing.  4 spanish guys have been killed by terrorist acts in Marocco. 9 more in Iraq. 13 spanish people in the last 5 months, that´s more than ETA in the last 4 years.

So... my point is... There is some "fuckin´ strange thing" in the muslim religion/culture/way of behave that make them fight like crazy fundamentalists as soon as something wrong happen in one of their countries. What is that? I dunno, but that creates my lack of confidence in them, excuse me people!

Could somebody explain me what it is?

Why are they killing spaniards? The polls show that 92 % of the spanish people was againt the war in Iraq...

Why do they hate us?

I have no reason to have a little unconfidence against muslims?

[Darth Mandarb]

I got an e-mail that's subject was:

"Attention: Your account (my e-mail address) will be deleted in 92 hours"

Then the e-mail iteself was for perscription Viagra online.

I guess Spam really is promoting ignorance!!

I mean, if spammers have to hide/disguise the subject line so as not to get filtered into spam, shouldn't they clue in to the fact that they're doing something wrong?

How many of you get this: v-i*@-g"r#a online!! as a subject line.  Or "Low M-O-R-T-G-A-G-E rates!!"  These moron [scumbag] spammers.

I say we set up a website that tracks down spammers.  Anybody finds a spammer we find their personal e-mail address and send them 1000 e-mails a day!!  See how they like it.

])]v[

[shbaz]

You keep saying Palestineans are totally religiously motivated.. Are you familiar at all with that rivalry?  Israel was founded after WWII when a lot of Jewish people rightfully didn't feel at home in Europe anymore.  So they tryed to take back their holy land.. from the Palestineans.  Israel was not officially in existance, Palestine was there, then Israelis took over with justification from the UN.  Basicaly their rights were voted away by foreign countries, and Israel gets super-awesome military toys from the US while Palestine is defending its freedom and right to keep their nation with what few machine guns and ammo they can get.  Fair fight?  No.  So what do you do when a bully is kicking your ass and you can't get out of it?  You take a cheap shot at his balls.  It's not honorable, but if they want to exist terrorism is about the only way they can fight back and get results.  That is the same reason Osama sent his boys into our towers.. I don't think he'd be able to make a statement by sending an invasion force and they are royally pissed about our military presence in their religious holy land of Saudi Arabia.  Did you know that?  That is the whole reason the Muslim people are angry in the first place.

Again, I'm not saying "terrorism is good" but you're mixing up your points and facts again.

[Nacho]

You keep saying Palestineans are totally religiously motivated.. Are you familiar at all with that rivalry?  Israel was founded after WWII when a lot of Jewish people rightfully didn't feel at home in Europe anymore.  So they tryed to take back their holy land.. from the Palestineans.  Israel was not officially in existance, Palestine was there, then Israelis took over with justification from the UN.  Basicaly their rights were voted away by foreign countries, and Israel gets super-awesome military toys from the US while Palestine is defending its freedom and right to keep their nation with what few machine guns and ammo they can get.  Fair fight?  No.  So what do you do when a bully is kicking your ass and you can't get out of it?  You take a cheap shot at his balls.  It's not honorable, but if they want to exist terrorism is about the only way they can fight back and get results.  That is the same reason Osama sent his boys into our towers.. I don't think he'd be able to make a statement by sending an invasion force and they are royally pissed about our military presence in their religious holy land of Saudi Arabia.  Did you know that?  That is the whole reason the Muslim people are angry in the first place.

Again, I'm not saying "terrorism is good" but you're mixing up your points and facts again.

Ok... some facts:

1) Palestina was a British protectorate, they had the right to make with it what they wanted.

2) 5 countries attacked a bunch of jewish people (Iraq, Sirya, Egypt, Jordania and Lebanon), people who had just came from the nazi´s Camps, incomplishing the first UN resolution. Well, if that´s an example of way of behave of the "good guys", the muslims, thanks, you´ve answered my question in the way I wanted. \o/

3) The Jewish offered the palestinian to remain in Israel, and became jewish citizens, with full rights (30% of the population of Israel are muslims, descendents of those people).

4) The palestinian who left, did it because the attacking countries promised them to kill all the Jewish and "paint the Mediterranean sea of Red with the dripping blood of the Jewish´ cutthroads"

5) The 5 countires lost the war, and, as they didn´t knew what to do with the palestinians, most of the countries took a "nice decission": killing them (Do you know that Jordania is the country in the world which has killed more Palestinians in History?)

6) Palestinians do not fight for freedon... As close they´re of having a free country, more suicidals come and kill 20-30 jewish. Palestinians terrorist groups are not fighting for the independence of Palestina, their foundational letters talk of "The total destruction of the infidel State of Israel".

I think that you must re-read you history notes, Mr. Shbazjinkens.

[DGMacphee]

DG: You haven´t answered my question: My intention was you to say: "Yes, they´re more muslim terrorist, but because of bla bla bla..." and they, trying to explain which are they motivations, reaching to a final and common conclussion, but if you don´t want to discuss, ok, no problemo,  .

Reaching a final and common conclussion?

On this forum?

Crikey, good luck!

And just because I'm putting forth alternate questions to your argument, doesn't mean I don't want to discuss it.

So, don't get stroppy, matey!


Also, how can you claim that Palestinians are not fighting for independence when the hegemony of the country shifts from Palestinian ownership to zionist Jewish ownership?

[SSH]

1) Palestina was a British protectorate, they had the right to make with it what they wanted.

Does that mean that we can keep Gibraltar, then?

[DGMacphee]

And you can do whatever you want with it too!

Make another chunnel!

[Nacho]

SSH: "we"?

You´re scottish... Gibraltar own to the damn Engl154!!11!  

And, yeah... you can keep the rock! It stinks!  

[shbaz]

I think you must re-evaluate your interpretation of history, given your claim that you understand such things as why there are terrorists.

1) Palestina was a British protectorate, they had the right to make with it what they wanted.

And Palestinians have the right to oppose the decision of the foreign country attempting to give away their lands.. I don't think we call New York a colony here in the US anymore you know.

2) 5 countries attacked a bunch of jewish people (Iraq, Sirya, Egypt, Jordania and Lebanon), people who had just came from the nazi´s Camps, incomplishing the first UN resolution. Well, if that´s an example of way of behave of the "good guys", the muslims, thanks, you´ve answered my question in the way I wanted. \o/

Um, once again these are people being ganged up on by the world with their lands being taken away by the Jews.. regardless of who they are, they were causing a huge disruption in the culture. I don't think they agreed with the UN giving away their land. Well, I know that. I didn't call them good guys, you're putting words in my mouth or not thoroughly reading or something. Do you still not understand they were defending independence? I said they were doing it dishonorably, but the point is, they are doing it and you claim they aren't.

3) The Jewish offered the palestinian to remain in Israel, and became jewish citizens, with full rights (30% of the population of Israel are muslims, descendents of those people).

If Mexicans became so oppressed that a majority of the people from there migrated to the US outnumbering us 7-3 and took over our government, but offered me "full rights" I think I'd still be opposed. Put yourself in their shoes. You're thinking inside the box of the people who did this to them.

4) The palestinian who left, did it because the attacking countries promised them to kill all the Jewish and "paint the Mediterranean sea of Red with the dripping blood of the Jewish´ cutthroads"

What relevance does this have? I told you I didn't approve of terrorism. I mentioned much earlier that the extremists were stupid. I'm not on the side of idiot killers. Again, I'm just saying you're wrong when you say they weren't fighting for their independence.

5) The 5 countires lost the war, and, as they didn´t knew what to do with the palestinians, most of the countries took a "nice decission": killing them (Do you know that Jordania is the country in the world which has killed more Palestinians in History?)

Um, ok. Still no relevance to them fighting for independence. You're just extremist-bashing again.

6) Palestinians do not fight for freedon... As close they´re of having a free country, more suicidals come and kill 20-30 jewish. Palestinians terrorist groups are not fighting for the independence of Palestina, their foundational letters talk of "The total destruction of the infidel State of Israel".

They aren't close to having their original country back, they're close to having less than 1/3 of it. Ok, so to break this down.. They aren't fighting for independence, because they want the state that is trying to take it from them to be totally destroyed. Thanks for clarifying that for me.

[Nacho]

Also, how can you claim that Palestinians are not fighting for independence when the hegemony of the country shifts from Palestinian ownership to zionist Jewish ownership?

Yes... I shared that oppinion since someone told me years before "Notice that Yihad allways strike when a peace plan is close to be signed"

And it´s true... as better the peace conversations go, bloodier the strikes are.

That friend, a Jewish Turkey mate, made me investigate the foundational documents of Jihad, Al-Aksa, Hamás... All of them say that their final aim is to destroy the Isreaelian State.

That made me change my mind...

[DGMacphee]

Also, how can you claim that Palestinians are not fighting for independence when the hegemony of the country shifts from Palestinian ownership to zionist Jewish ownership?

Yes... I shared that oppinion since someone told me years before "Notice that Yihad allways strike when a peace plan is close to be signed"

And it´s true... as better the peace conversations go, bloodier the strikes are.

That friend, a Jewish Turkey mate, made me investigate the foundational documents of Jihad, Al-Aksa, Hamás... All of them say that their final aim is to destroy the Isreaelian State.

That made me change my mind...

Post ergo proctor hoc - After it therefore because of it.

Not always true.

I mean, it's like you're insimuating that the peace talks cause Palestinian rebels to strike.

And that's ridiculous, cause strikes happen there even without peace a peace signing.

The reasons you hear about bloody strikes during a peace signing is because the media likes to juxtapose recent strikes with peace signnings.

I've talked about this to people in the industry -- it happens all the time, and not just with the Israel-Palistine situation.

Think about this: why would the Western media give a shit about what's happening with the Israel-Palestine bloodshed if there are no peace talks?

You can only report on the bloodshed so much before people become bored with it.

It's sad, but it's true.

[shbaz]

So you're saying that they are not fighting for independence, but fighting because they hate Jews. Jews lived there pre-modern-Israel and weren't being massacred like now. Does that change your mind? It's a sort of simple view of things, but the Israelites weren't trying to create their own country with Palestinian lands then.

[Nacho]

Shbazjenkins:

"And Palestinians have the right to oppose the decision of the foreign country attempting to give away their lands.. I don't think we call New York a colony here in the US anymore you know" <---That´s what I call supporting the terrorism. But we can carry on with that argument: "Nazis had the right to attack Poland, because there was Danzig, and Prusia and bla bla bla..."


"If Mexicans became so oppressed that a majority of the people from there migrated to the US outnumbering us 7-3 and took over our government, but offered me "full rights" I think I'd still be opposed. Put yourself in their shoes. You're thinking inside the box of the people who did this to them."
No! I told that they had the possibility to remain in their lands in 1949, before all the oppresion and all the stuff... And as an example, I put that 30% of muslims Israelian population. As an example that living between Jew and muslims is possible (except for those Palestinians who left their countries expecting that foreign countries kill the Jewish)

And I can´t really response to many of the other points, because I don´t really understand you... I say to you that the Jordans are the country that more Palestinians have killed and you say that that has something to see with an independence fight?

Let me explain it to you in a short dialogue, ok?

Jordans- Hey! Palestinians, mateys, come to my country, I m going to kill the Jewish!

Palestinians: Ok!

(the war is a failure and the Palestinians can´t come back, and they remain in Jordania)

The palestinians say: Hey Jordania... what do we do now? eeehh! Arghhhhh!

Palestinian dead by a Jordan who didn´t want to keep him in his country


Do you understand it now?

[Nacho]

And YES! the matter that the palestinians left their homes in 1949 expecting to return after the Jewish massacre does care, because shows that the "good boys palestinian little angels" wanted the Jewish killed before the occupation.

It also shows that the Jewish intentions at the beggining were good, while today, the constant attack by their neighbourn countries, has turned it into a very agressive ones. The ARABS STARTED.

[shbaz]

Shbazjenkins:

That´s what I call supporting the terrorism.

I'm giving you the reason why there is terrorism, not supporting it. You keep pretending I'm in favor of it, but I'm just pointing out that they had good reason to be mad. Their anger is given out in a different way than ours.

No! I told that they had the possibility to remain in their lands in 1949, before all the oppresion and all the stuff

You totally missed my analogy, apparently.  You don't want your country to be flooded with foreigners, taken over, and then given the option to live with equal rights under the foreigners that have overthrown your government... Or do you not mind if that happens to you because you would appreciate the change that a totally different culture (and religion) might bring?

And I can´t really response to many of the other points, because I don´t really understand you... I say to you that the Jordans are the country that more Palestinians have killed and you say that that has something to see with an independence fight?

You totally didn't catch my point again.  I'm not justifying their actions.  I'm pointing out that you think that this isn't an independence fight only because of the terrorism.  Palestineans getting killed by Jordaneans has no relevance in whether or not they are fighting for their freedom from Israel.. if it does I'd love you to kindly explain it to me. The "sea of blood" crap is just their more graphic term for the same stuff Bush feeds the US. It's propaganda to get their people to unite against their enemy that has taken their lands against their will.

You're telling me I support terrorism because I'm pointing out why there is terrorism. Please re-read my last post and try to understand it better. Your opinions are jumbled and slightly mis-interpreted.  I'm only trying to clarify because most non-muslims aren't even going to attempt to put theirselves in a Palestineans shoes and imagine why they are going to be terrorists. The religious jihad stuff is just a way to gain more followers. The people behind it all are trying to get their lands back, I don't think they really feel as swayed by their religion as the fact that their country was taken from them against their will.

EDIT

Oh crap, I finish my long post and you post this?

And YES! the matter that the palestinians left their homes in 1949 expecting to return after the Jewish massacre does care, because shows that the "good boys palestinian little angels" wanted the Jewish killed before the occupation.

Or maybe they didn't want to be accidentally murdered by their allies in the ensuing war by remaining in their homes on the battlefield?  Why in the holy shit are you calling them little angels?  For the last friggin time, I'm not calling them perfect.  They're fighting for their independence with all of the means that they can, and TERRORISM IS BAD.  Did you read it that time?  Yes, I think terrorism is bad too.

It also shows that the Jewish intentions at the beggining were good, while today, the constant attack by their neighbourn countries, has turned it into a very agressive ones. The ARABS STARTED.

As good as their intentions may have been, they were FORCIBLY TAKING something from someone for NO REASON THAT THE PALISTINEANS CAUSED.  The Palestineans will only be happy when they have everything back, not some, but ALL.  The Jews don't want it all, but most of it.  That is why in 50 years this conflict is still not settled.  The Arabs didn't start it!  The Jews friggin' went there and started a new country with Palistenean lands!  That started it.  They wouldn't have fought Jews that weren't there in the first place, would they?

[makri]

If US wouldn't interfere with Palestinian conflict there had been peace for a long time.

Palestinians might not be able to fight with honourable methods, but unlike Israelis, their cause is just.

[Nacho]

Palestinians might not be able to fight with honourable methods, but unlike Israelis, their cause is just.

Yes, terminating with the Jewish race is very just Makri  

And that´s what the terrorist are pursuing.

[Nacho]

Shbazjinkens: I see so different points of view between you and me that going on would only take us to a bitter confrontation that I don´t want.

These differences are: You say that the land belong to the Palestinians... It never has, as it belonged to brits.

You say that Palestinian leaved his land because they thought that they could never reached the same citizen state as the Jewish. I am saying that the Palestinians who remained have the same state in front of the law.

The "sea of blood" stuff is not Bush´ propaganda, it was a quote said in 1949 by arab warriors, which means that was said 50 years before the Bush election...

Anyway, I see your points, and I see your analogies, but I don´t share them, so, going with this is futile because I don´t want to make a quick reply and write something that I don´t really think.

So, thanks for sharing your oppinions with me, but I´m tired of this, all the points are the same since 5 or 6 posts, so, I give in.

[shbaz]

Palestinians might not be able to fight with honourable methods, but unlike Israelis, their cause is just.

Basically, this is my point.  The Palistineans wouldn't have the goal of terminating the Jewish race if the Jewish race weren't taking their home.

You don't understand my points, because I didn't say Bush said the sea of blood stuff, I said he makes the same type of propaganda in different ways.  It is a good time to stop. This is way too long.

[TheYak]

Yes, terminating with the Jewish race is very just Makri  
And that´s what the terrorist are pursuing.

Sorry, but if I understand you correctly, you're stating that the terrorists are persuing genocide of the Jews?  This I doubt.  It seems to be a religious & territorial conflict.  If the Jews were relocated 500 miles or so away, it would be the solution Palestine was looking for.  Then again, maybe I'm wrong and the Palestinians would hunt Jews to the ends of the Earth for the sake of extermination.    


Aside from that, I think we can pick a couple points that everyone agrees upon and go from there.  1) Terrorism is a bad thing.  People who do this are naughty.   2) There is no justification for killing civilians, either by military force or that of terrorism.  Even if war is assumed to be justified, I don't think anyone here advocates the targeting of civilians.    Unless there's someone who disagrees with those 2 points, I don't think there's any use in arguing them further.

[Nacho]

Thanks for trying to re-direction the discussion, it really needs so.

Well, your argument is that Palestinians fight for their land and their freedom (thanks for making clear that you don´t like terrorrism because in many times this discussion finish in a "Ok! I hate jews, fuck them!!!11!")

But my point is: The Palestinians deserve it in the sense that they wanted to kill all the Jewish in a first moment. The palestinian who wanted peace, now has peace (30 % of Isrealians who are Muslims is my example)

Israel was flooded during the first part of the 21th century with milions of Jews, argentinian, turks, russian... There was no problem when the brittons were there. Your arguments are based of the believe that when the British left was very unfair by their part to give the land to the Jews, a land that belonged to the Palestinians. But Palestinians left it voluntary, because they didn´t want to share their lands with a devastated culture like the Jews were. Israel was originally conceived as a land were Jews and Arabs could life in peace, but the arabs pissed it all off attacking with 5 armies the day later the state of Israel was created. I wish to discuss that, because if I still reading something like "blasting 30 jewish student in a Bus is just" I´m goint to sick.

Edit: and yeah! I agree with the 2 points: 1)terrorism is bad, terrorist are stupid, never "romantic fighters", 2)Killing civilians is sick (And soldiers too, )

[shbaz]

When did I say I hate Jews, fuck them?  You're making it look like I hate them because I understand their opposing side, and that's stupid. Even though I still know you're wrong you're being too ignorant, I'm not arguing with you anymore.

[TheYak]

Actually Mr. Unpronouncable  , I think he was being facetious in response to my statement.  My point was mainly that the Palestinians were not seeking genocide.  I never said that terrorism was the way to go about things or that the Palestinians had a right to be there.  Whether or not I side with them, I never made any statement to that effect.  I merely pointed out that they didn't share the same goals as the Third Reich.  

Farl, I felt like making the statement that "Terrorism is Bad" because I've already seen two instances where somebody actually had to bother stating this.  I am a martyr for the cause of anti-redundancy.  Excellent.

[Nacho]

Thanks Yaksplit, and Mr.Shbazjenkins, I don´t know if you are ( : : ::)CENSORED BY THE CHRISTMAS´ FRIENDSHIP FEELING : : :) ... Where in the "in many times this discussion finish in a "Ok! I hate jews, fuck them!!!11!" sentence do you see a reference to you?

I was talking to my friend Yaksplit, a mature member who I´ve exchanged nice messages and discussions with, and not to a n00b whose first posts told nothing interesting to me, Mr. "the funnier resignation letter ever, ha ha!"

And yes, I am an ignorant, and you are a Teacher of modern History in the Smithsonian Uiversity      

[TheYak]

Alright, we're all mature adults here. Those of us who technically aren't at least do a decent job of acting mature.  Let's not degrade ourselves by using personal insults.  It was a misunderstanding.  I realize there's a lot of emotion involved when discussing terrorism, politics, religion and postage stamps but I don't think there's any reason to come to blows.    

Anyway, many good points have been made.  Unfortunately, I can't contribute all that much due to my ignorance.  I blame the school-system for part of it and my laziness in not researching on my own for the rest.  I have one major question, though: What the hell is boxing day?  :

[makri]

What the hell is boxing day?  :

As someone from northern Europe I had never heard of this tradition before I spent some time in Canada. However, boxing day is the day after Christmas when you go around the town and beat the living daylights out of people who gave you crappy presents.

[TheYak]

I only remembered to ask about it because I noticed it on my desk calendar.  I don't remember what it's about but your definition sounds like the way to go.

[Nacho]

Ok, thanks Yaksplit for reminding me the reasons I never discuss this.

Would you accept my appologies Mr. Shbazjinkens?

* Lance Farlandstrong offers hand shaking

[Timosity]

What the hell is boxing day?  :

As someone from northern Europe I had never heard of this tradition before I spent some time in Canada. However, boxing day is the day after Christmas when you go around the town and beat the living daylights out of people who gave you crappy presents.

I like that rendition of boxing day, it seems like more fun.

I always thought it was the day you put all your christmas presents back in their box never to play with them again, or you played with the boxes that you got your presents in.

but it is a public holiday (originally st. stephen's day or something) it's of British origin and is celebrated In Brittain, Canada, New Zealand, Australia & probably other commonwealth countries. It is something to do with giving less fortunate people gifts the day after christmas, or something along those lines. I guess people haven't changed much over the centuries, giving away their crap presents to seem like they're doing something nice.

These days It's really just another excuse to drink for another day, but more importantly it is the day I can go and see 'Return of the King' at the movies, although there are already advanced screenings and it was officially released in NZ on Dec. 1.

That has been my boxing day for the last couple of years, It'll be dissappointing that there won't be another one on 26th Dec 2004, There's also the "Boxing Day Test", an annual Cricket test at the MCG (Melbourne Cricket Ground) and there's the "Sydney to Hobart Yacht Race" which is also a Proud tradition (I'm totally not into it) but it is one of the most Dangerous Yacht races on earth, there can be some of the most trecherous sea conditions of anywhere in the world down the South East corner of Aust.  The "Roaring 40's" go right through Bass Straight, many people have been killed in the race, even recently.

That's about all I know on the subject, but Yak, that was the most interesting, and most intelligent thing I've read in this thread. (seriously, even though it was just an off the wall statement/question)

[shbaz]

Err, I called you ignorant so I think it justified to curse at me. No apologies from you needed.

I'm a noob.. hehe, just because it doesn't say transferred from eZboard doesn't mean I've never been here. http://pub6.ezboard.com/bdosuserforums.showLocalUserPublicProfile?login=shbazjinkens

I have strong feelings about anything where I feel someone is not properly imagining both sides of a situation and giving flak to entire races for it. I know a lot of Arabians, Muslims, and other minority groups.. my University is flooded with them. My TA in Chemistry is Lebanese. The man who will direct my studies in alternative energies is a devout Muslim and from India. There's a foreign kid sitting two seats away from me in the library right now who is probably an Arab. I'm shutting up and I don't want to talk about it anymore because you obviously aren't going to change your predjudism. I've talked to a lot of these people, and I know what the world looks like through their eyes, they've told me.

[Nacho]

Yes, but whereas you are in a plural University where you can see all the point of views, here in my country it is very "fashioned" to support the Palestinians arguments without having a plural, propper discussion of the facts.

That´s why I´m so deffensive when I see someone who says "Palestinians fight for their right", because in my country that usually means that the guy what actually thinks: "I´d like that all these guys blast all the fucked jews!!"

That´s why your repeatedly references about that you don´t share the bombing stuff haven´t been (in a quite inconscience way) ignored by me.  

Tha´t´s the problem... If a nice fair comes to you and says, "Hey! Do you want me to create a big/calid/paradisiac island in the middle of Mediterranean were Jews can life in peace?" you´ll probably say: "of course, that would be nice!"

I´d agree too... but the people I´m used to discuss would like to see all the jews in the middle of the Mediterranean... without the Island  

Well... so... you´ve been transfered from e-boards... eeer... look! A three headed monkey!

I confess my ignorance about one very subject: What´s your avatar??? a ghost?

[TheYak]

It's a shoe; currently on a foot, attached to a leg, I might add.  It's nice to see that even after some bitterness we can all make nice and hug, even if your text says you're keeping your swords unsheathed.

[c.leksutin]

Boxing DAy comes from the tradition of the Nobles "boxing" up all the left-over food from the holliday festivities and giving it to the pesants.


C.