Author Topic: Sam and Max 2 Cancelled! (Not Anymore)  (Read 30363 times)  Share 

Esseb

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Re:Sam and Max Cancelled!
« Reply #80 on: 05 Mar 2004, 19:16 »
I'm not sure I can possibly follow up a criticism of such a remarkable insight and quality as the one Largo has graciously bestowed upon us all.

It is better, yes. You could try "Damn Lucasarts' cancellation" instead, and I would suggest a smaller font size. At least it doesn't contain the word "butt" and "screw" now and for that I am grateful.
« Last Edit: 05 Mar 2004, 19:31 by Esseb »

auhsor

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Re:Sam and Max Cancelled!
« Reply #81 on: 05 Mar 2004, 22:34 »
From http://www.samandmax.net/

Quote
LucasArts' sudden decision to stop production on Sam & Max is mystifying.  Sam & Max was on schedule and coming together beautifully.

I couldn't have been more pleased with the quality of the writing, gameplay, hilarious animation and the gorgeous 3D world that Mike Stemmle's team has created. The rug has been pulled out from under this brilliant team who've so expertly retooled Sam & Max for the 21st century.

I'm extremely frustrated and disappointed especially for the team who have devoted so much effort and creativity to Sam & Max. It's a shame to think that their accomplishments, as well as the goodwill that has been growing in the gaming press toward this project, will all go to waste due to this shortsighted decision.

Thanks everyone, for continuing to make your feelings known.

--Steve Purcell

Ytterbium

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Re:Sam and Max Cancelled!
« Reply #82 on: 06 Mar 2004, 02:06 »
From http://www.samandmax.net/

Quote
LucasArts' sudden decision to stop production on Sam & Max is mystifying.  Sam & Max was on schedule and coming together beautifully.

I couldn't have been more pleased with the quality of the writing, gameplay, hilarious animation and the gorgeous 3D world that Mike Stemmle's team has created. The rug has been pulled out from under this brilliant team who've so expertly retooled Sam & Max for the 21st century.

I'm extremely frustrated and disappointed especially for the team who have devoted so much effort and creativity to Sam & Max. It's a shame to think that their accomplishments, as well as the goodwill that has been growing in the gaming press toward this project, will all go to waste due to this shortsighted decision.

Thanks everyone, for continuing to make your feelings known.

--Steve Purcell
I just saw that. I don't get it. They really didn't think people would buy it. What is with LucasArts? I'm not buying any more of the Star Wars games they think we'll buy, not even KOTOR 2 when it inevitably comes out. And KOTOR's one of my favorite games ever. To abandon that franchise for Sam and Max is saying something.

I just hope Syberia 2 quenches my thirst for good professional adventures.
« Last Edit: 06 Mar 2004, 02:08 by Ytterbium »

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modgeulator

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Re:Sam and Max Cancelled!
« Reply #83 on: 06 Mar 2004, 04:58 »
Well, there, that confirms it then. If everything Steve Purcell says is true this was on track to almost certainly being one of the greatest adventure games of all time. Yes, yes I know Monkey Island 3 and 4 were dissapointing to many of you, but then they were lacking the series visionary, Ron Gilbert. This game was being headed by the main creator, and he sounds like he was genuinely enthusiastic about how it was turning out. Make no mistake, this game was cancelled because management doesn't like adventure games and that's the one and only reason.

Kweepa

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Re:Sam and Max Cancelled!
« Reply #84 on: 06 Mar 2004, 10:33 »
From http://www.samandmax.net/

Quote
...
Sam & Max was on schedule and coming together beautifully.
--Steve Purcell

Yummy words! Munch munch!
Well, here's our solution then... Pixar makes Sam and Max movie. LucasArts reverse course. Team haven't all quit in disgust already. *crosses fingers*
Still waiting for Purity of the Surf II

Krazy

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Re:Sam and Max Cancelled!
« Reply #85 on: 06 Mar 2004, 14:12 »
*clears throat*
FUCK YOU LUCAS ARTS!
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Ytterbium

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Re:Sam and Max Cancelled!
« Reply #86 on: 06 Mar 2004, 14:49 »
Here's my letter to The Adventure Company:

"A lot of gamers, even non-adventure gamers, are disgusted with LucasArts' recent cancellation of Sam and Max 2. However, I've heard that LucasArts doesn't really own the full license to the game. Sam and Max 2, if it is released, will be the biggest adventure game in years, and I think it would be a wise decision for The Adventure Company to grab the rights and release the game.
According to this article (http://www.mixnmojo.com/php/news/showfile.php?id=1535&category=advnews), the game was coming together beautifully and was cancelled for financial reasons. Please pick up this game and foot the bill to get it finished. It would give you a ton of fans, and it would sell amazingly."

Currently in production: Septigon

Re:Sam and Max Cancelled!
« Reply #87 on: 06 Mar 2004, 15:20 »
I am short on time, and so I haven't read all the replies here. Sorry if I repeat something that was said before.

I think it is silly to be angry with Lucasarts. After all, it is a commercial company, with one main interest - profit. If the sales department decided Sam & Max 2 won't sell, and I am sure they had their reasons, then there is no reason for the company to continue funding the project for the sake of nostalgia alone.
If it so, then why did they even begin this project? Beats me. Bad evaluation perhaps. Change of people in head positions. A sudden urge to create an adventure game that has since faded. I don't know, and anyway it is irrelevant. Creating adventure games isn't a good business decision, and it is all that matters. Sad, but true.
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Ytterbium

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Re:Sam and Max Cancelled!
« Reply #88 on: 06 Mar 2004, 15:42 »
I am short on time, and so I haven't read all the replies here. Sorry if I repeat something that was said before.

I think it is silly to be angry with Lucasarts. After all, it is a commercial company, with one main interest - profit. If the sales department decided Sam & Max 2 won't sell, and I am sure they had their reasons, then there is no reason for the company to continue funding the project for the sake of nostalgia alone.
If it so, then why did they even begin this project? Beats me. Bad evaluation perhaps. Change of people in head positions. A sudden urge to create an adventure game that has since faded. I don't know, and anyway it is irrelevant. Creating adventure games isn't a good business decision, and it is all that matters. Sad, but true.

The reason we're all mad at LucasArts is that they cancelled a game that not only us but the worldwide gaming press was going mad with anticipation for. Tons of even casual gamers were waiting for this game. And LucasArts didn't think it would sell.

I also noticed that a lot of websites with Steve Purcell's statement on them have gone down and I can't connect to them. Conspiracy?
« Last Edit: 06 Mar 2004, 15:44 by Ytterbium »

Currently in production: Septigon

Re:Sam and Max Cancelled!
« Reply #89 on: 06 Mar 2004, 19:12 »
One simple question:  Who buy games?  Players or salemen?
« Last Edit: 06 Mar 2004, 19:12 by Airborne »

Re:Sam and Max Cancelled!
« Reply #90 on: 06 Mar 2004, 19:42 »
Quote
The reason we're all mad at LucasArts is that they cancelled a game that not only us but the worldwide gaming press was going mad with anticipation for. Tons of even casual gamers were waiting for this game. And LucasArts didn't think it would sell.

I believe that if it was such as sure hit, then Lucasarts would have never cancelled it. No, the euphoria surrounding any big-name adventure game that comes out these days would not be enough for the game to sell well. Even if nostalgic reviewers would give it 90s and As, most 'casual' gamers would still prefer the latest version of this or that First-Person Shooter. I am assuring you that if Lucasarts think the game wouln't have sold, they have a damn good reason.
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Ozwalled

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Re:Sam and Max Cancelled!
« Reply #91 on: 06 Mar 2004, 21:37 »
No, the euphoria surrounding any big-name adventure game that comes out these days would not be enough for the game to sell well.

So why in the blue hell did they even start making it in the first place? As someone else mentionned, there's not that much difference in today's market as compared to whenever they likely started making the game in the first place.

Even if there's more to this whole fiasco than meets the eye, I find it very hard to simply dismiss Purcell's stamp of approval. If HE was so enthusiastically backing what he was seeing, really, how bad could it have been?

I think that there was some people at LucasArts with their heads up their asses, pretty much any way you look at it.

Re:Sam and Max Cancelled!
« Reply #92 on: 06 Mar 2004, 22:32 »
No, the euphoria surrounding any big-name adventure game that comes out these days would not be enough for the game to sell well.

So why in the blue hell did they even start making it in the first place? As someone else mentionned, there's not that much difference in today's market as compared to whenever they likely started making the game in the first place.

Here's a quote of my own:
Quote
If it so, then why did they even begin this project? Beats me. Bad evaluation perhaps. Change of people in head positions. A sudden urge to create an adventure game that has since faded. I don't know, and anyway it is irrelevant. Creating adventure games isn't a good business decision, and it is all that matters. Sad, but true.
Currently Working On: Monkey Island 1.5

Czar

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Re:Sam and Max Cancelled!
« Reply #93 on: 07 Mar 2004, 00:19 »
Well, someone said that Sam'n'Max would suck like MI4, I would say: No way, beacuse Steve purcell was working on it, and then came the letter, saying i was right.

My guess is that they've completed the game (only needed those last touches), and then some relative (preferrably a kid 10-14) of a manager that works in the sales department takes a short glance at the game, and says: " An Adventure? Point'n'click, man, noobody plays this anymore..." And the sales department guy decided to convince others to cancell it.

And i wanted to say (as someone mentioned, but i thought of it first  :P) that they can buy the game off LucasArts, and sell it from another publisher... Lets say, Steve can do that...

Oh yeah, i forgot to add, It's all about advertising/marketing...
« Last Edit: 07 Mar 2004, 00:45 by Czar »
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Re:Sam and Max Cancelled!
« Reply #94 on: 07 Mar 2004, 00:21 »
Barcik, You obviously haven't seen the various 'mainstream' gaming sites and magazines: They were all pretty damn positive about this upcoming title. Gamespot even put it on spot #4 of most anticipated PC game.

The cancellation of this game hasn't caused an uproar in the adventure community only, you know.

Add to that the fact that, according to insider Steve Purcell, the game was going to be fantastic and everything was going on schedule.

Also add the fact that one of the managers of LucasArts has a rather doubtful reputation (see my post here: http://forums.adventuregamers.com/showthread.php?t=2326.

And the game was almost finished, for crying out loud.

No, siree. There's something going on at LucasArts. This is not as easy as: oh well, the game probably wasn't going the right way or wouldn't have sold.

--Erwin
« Last Edit: 07 Mar 2004, 00:22 by Erwin_Br »

remixor

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Re:Sam and Max Cancelled!
« Reply #95 on: 07 Mar 2004, 07:02 »
I believe that if it was such as sure hit, then Lucasarts would have never cancelled it.

And what exactly is the cause of this bizarre faith in LucasArts' predictions?  In the last several years, LucasArts has had an utterly TERRIBLE track record of judging which games are worth releasing, so to assume they'd know how this one would have sold is pretty silly.  I don't expect you to keep up on external forums, but gamers all over big mainstream (ie, non-adventure) gaming sites like GameSpot, Shack News, Blues News, and even non-gaming sites like Slashdot have been posting thousands of angry messages.  These are not the hardcore adventurers, these are the guys you claim would "prefer the latest version of this or that First-Person Shooter."  And even if those guys DO prefer a FPS game, that doesn't mean they can't enjoy or purchase an adventure game.  I mean, I prefer Grim Fandango to the original Sam and Max, but that doesn't mean I didn't absolutely love the latter.

Quote
No, the euphoria surrounding any big-name adventure game that comes out these days would not be enough for the game to sell well. Even if nostalgic reviewers would give it 90s and As, most 'casual' gamers would still prefer the latest version of this or that First-Person Shooter. I am assuring you that if Lucasarts think the game wouln't have sold, they have a damn good reason.

Again, LucasArts did NOT have a damn good reason.  Their current acting president (they don't have a real president, as they have yet to replace Simon Jeffery) has a history of poor decisions and bad corporate performance dating back to his days at EA.  It's pretty naive to assume that just because LucasArts is an actual company they automatically have some sort of game industry power of prescience.  And while it may be true that MOST adventure games don't end up being huge sellers, games like The Longest Journey and Syberia have provided enormous amounts of revenue to their publishers and those were games with no pre-existing fanbase.  Sam and Max already has fans of the original game (and theoretically fans of the comic and animated series, though those people are probably already fans of the game), as well as fans of adventure games in general, many of whom would buy this game anyway just for being a new and well-polished adventure game with high production values.  Not to mention, these are characters that practically market themselves!  You don't need to be familiar with any of the previous Sam and Max properties to enjoy their antics, and the Sam and Max sense of humour is the type that's very appealing to today's market.  Of course, no matter how easy something is to advertise, it's ALWAYS harder than marketing a Star Wars game (quite possibly the easiest game franchise in history to market effectively), so I get the feeling LucasArts' sales and marketing departments just wussed out on this one.
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Re:Sam and Max Cancelled!
« Reply #96 on: 07 Mar 2004, 10:51 »
One simple question:  Who buy games?  Players or salemen?

They both do.
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Re:Sam and Max Cancelled!
« Reply #97 on: 07 Mar 2004, 10:55 »
And what exactly is the cause of this bizarre faith in LucasArts' predictions?  In the last several years, LucasArts has had an utterly TERRIBLE track record of judging which games are worth releasing, so to assume they'd know how this one would have sold is pretty silly.

In business, any prediction is no more then a guess. Even if they did make some mistakes, it is not a sufficient reason to do the exact opposite of what the sales department advices to do. The people in the head positions can examine their advice more carefully, ask externel bodies to re-eveluate the market, fire all of the people in that department, but it isn't there just for the fun of it. These are the people the president, or whoever, hired, and ultimately, he should either trust them or sack them.

Quote
I don't expect you to keep up on external forums, but gamers all over big mainstream (ie, non-adventure) gaming sites like GameSpot, Shack News, Blues News, and even non-gaming sites like Slashdot have been posting thousands of angry messages. These are not the hardcore adventurers, these are the guys you claim would "prefer the latest version of this or that First-Person Shooter." And even if those guys DO prefer a FPS game, that doesn't mean they can't enjoy or purchase an adventure game. I mean, I prefer Grim Fandango to the original Sam and Max, but that doesn't mean I didn't absolutely love the latter.

I am quite aware of the buzz surrounding this game. I've even seen Sam & Max 2 high on the list of the Readers' Most Expected Games. However, despite what it may look like, this is still the minority out there that is complaining. Otherwise, this genre would be prospering now.

Quote
And while it may be true that MOST adventure games don't end up being huge sellers, games like The Longest Journey and Syberia have provided enormous amounts of revenue to their publishers and those were games with no pre-existing fanbase.

The key word here is missing - relatively. Both of this games were created on a low-budget and aimed at a limited market. Thus, they sold well relatively to the expenses. But a project such as Sam & Max 2 is in a league of its own. It's created by a big firm such as Lucasarts on a much bigger budget, and they cannot be satisfied by decent sales in the European market. A Lucasarts product has to be a hit. For some reason, they thought it wouldn't be, and this is the main point here. I, you, Steve Purcell or anybody else can't possibly know how the game would have fared on the market. Lucasarts decided it would do badly, and so it is fully legitimate to cancel the project. Whether their reasons to do so are valid or not is irrelevent. They made a decision, and they acted according to it. I could not have expected them to do otherwise.
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remixor

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Re:Sam and Max Cancelled!
« Reply #98 on: 07 Mar 2004, 11:46 »
And what exactly is the cause of this bizarre faith in LucasArts' predictions?  In the last several years, LucasArts has had an utterly TERRIBLE track record of judging which games are worth releasing, so to assume they'd know how this one would have sold is pretty silly.

In business, any prediction is no more then a guess. Even if they did make some mistakes, it is not a sufficient reason to do the exact opposite of what the sales department advices to do. The people in the head positions can examine their advice more carefully, ask externel bodies to re-eveluate the market, fire all of the people in that department, but it isn't there just for the fun of it. These are the people the president, or whoever, hired, and ultimately, he should either trust them or sack them.

So you think the sales department should have the final say in anything, because anything contradicting what they say is "doing the exact opposite" and should not be considered, even if that sales department has a terrible, terrible track record and can't even justify their own decisions?  What?  Do you have a vested interest in this?  Are you planning on working for a sales department later in life?

Furthermore, Mike Nelson in all likelihood didn't hire those people.  Also, by your own admission, you said "he should either trust them or sack them."  Regarding this statement: I think they should be sacked, because they make consistently poor decisions.  And speaking of poor decisions, I think Mike Nelson should be sacked as well.  He hasn't done any good for LucasArts (or Electronic Arts, which he pretty much left in shame), and he isn't even familiar with LEC's product line.  This is a man who, in complete seriousness, looked at the Full Throttle 2 concept and said "What are 'cavefish' doing in a biker game?"  By the way, shit like this on his part is what DIRECTLY caused Ahern and Ackley to leave LucasArts.  When bad company management repeatedly causes talented staff member after talented staff member to leave the company they worked with and loved for years, something is wrong.  This whole "ultimate loyalty to sales and executives" thing you're defending is silly.  I mean, you shouldn't disagree with everything your boss says, but these conditions were so bad that Schafer, Grossman, Gilbert, Bajakian, Land, McConnel, Ahern, Ackley, Chan, etc., etc. (almost all guys who started at LEC and made their names there) couldn't stand it and left.

I still don't understand why you can't just admit that sometimes companies do stupid things without sufficient reason.  History has proven this countless times.  We often look back at failed companies and say things like "Man, they REALLY shouldn't have made that completely ridiculous decision."  We can ALSO, at DIFFERENT times, say things like "That was a great decision, too bad the odds were stacked against them."  This, however, is almost certainly not a case of the second situation.

Quote
Quote
I don't expect you to keep up on external forums, but gamers all over big mainstream (ie, non-adventure) gaming sites like GameSpot, Shack News, Blues News, and even non-gaming sites like Slashdot have been posting thousands of angry messages. These are not the hardcore adventurers, these are the guys you claim would "prefer the latest version of this or that First-Person Shooter." And even if those guys DO prefer a FPS game, that doesn't mean they can't enjoy or purchase an adventure game. I mean, I prefer Grim Fandango to the original Sam and Max, but that doesn't mean I didn't absolutely love the latter.

I am quite aware of the buzz surrounding this game. I've even seen Sam & Max 2 high on the list of the Readers' Most Expected Games. However, despite what it may look like, this is still the minority out there that is complaining. Otherwise, this genre would be prospering now.

A minority of what?  Every single gamer?  Obviously.  However, this is, hands-down the biggest public outcry I've ever seen for the cancellation of a game with the possible exception of Fallout 3.  There's a difference between "adventure games" and "Sam and Max", and you dont' have to be an adventure gamer to want to play Sam and Max 2.

(side note: And not just "Readers' Most Expected Games."  Multiple big gaming publications have put SM2 on the list of the most anticipated games of the publication itself, and PC Gamer even put them on the friggin cover two months ago.)

Quote
Quote
And while it may be true that MOST adventure games don't end up being huge sellers, games like The Longest Journey and Syberia have provided enormous amounts of revenue to their publishers and those were games with no pre-existing fanbase.

The key word here is missing - relatively. Both of this games were created on a low-budget and aimed at a limited market. Thus, they sold well relatively to the expenses. But a project such as Sam & Max 2 is in a league of its own. It's created by a big firm such as Lucasarts on a much bigger budget, and they cannot be satisfied by decent sales in the European market. A Lucasarts product has to be a hit. For some reason, they thought it wouldn't be, and this is the main point here. I, you, Steve Purcell or anybody else can't possibly know how the game would have fared on the market. Lucasarts decided it would do badly, and so it is fully legitimate to cancel the project. Whether their reasons to do so are valid or not is irrelevent. They made a decision, and they acted according to it. I could not have expected them to do otherwise.

A LucasArts game has to be a hit?  So... Gladius: hit?  I wouldn't say so.  Armed and Dangerous: hit?  Ha, ha.  RTX: Red Rock: Hit?  BWA, HA HA HA HA HA!  Those are all examples just from the past few months.  Coincidentally (or possibly not coincidentally at all), the general concensus of quality from the gaming public on those games is pretty much in line with how well they sold.  Considering how highly everybody who actually was involved with or was shown Sam and Max 2 thought of the game, it easily had the potential to outsell any of those games.  By the way, the sales of RTX were in the low thousands.  Yes, it sold a couple thousand copies, that's it.  And LucasArts' sales department pushed it out the door.  Pardon me if I do have even the SLIGHTEST bit of respect for the scumbags in that department, who couldn't analyze gaming trends if faced with the threat of a rabid bunny biting off their balls.

Basically, the vibe I'm getting from your post is "If someone makes a decision, the verdict is automatically acceptable, even if they don't have any good reason."  I mean, you're saying (quote) "Whether their reasons to do so are valid or not is irrelevent."  Why is that irrelevant?  You think we shouldn't have standards of accountability?  I feel kind of bad for you, because with that kind of attitude people are just going to walk all over you in life.  Of course, this is just a game, but your overall attitude is somewhat worrying.
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Re:Sam and Max Cancelled!
« Reply #99 on: 07 Mar 2004, 12:08 »
I, you, Steve Purcell or anybody else can't possibly know how the game would have fared on the market. Lucasarts decided it would do badly, and so it is fully legitimate to cancel the project. Whether their reasons to do so are valid or not is irrelevent. They made a decision, and they acted according to it. I could not have expected them to do otherwise.

Yes, they made a decision, but they made a poor one, that's the whole point. I know i'd be pretty pissed if i'd be sweating on a project like this for 2 years and then some new suit would come along and say "sorry guys... it looks good, but it won't sell". This is not only ignorant to us players (who were teased with big promises), but especially to developing team.
« Last Edit: 07 Mar 2004, 12:13 by Igor »