Topic: SQ3 (another p&c remake) - need help with gfx

[Orieac]

Hi


I started this year another SQ3 remake. Right now it is like the Larry 2 remake (It uses the original resources but it will be at 640x400).
Here are some pics:




You can also try the WIP "demo": http://www.geocities.com/orieac/SQ3.zip

Edit: Run winsetup and set the game to 640x400.

Right now i need some help. I don't have the right skills but i would like to change the background colors (EGA -> VGA).

Orieac

[Totoro]

Mmmh... I don't quite get it. Why do you have to switch the resolution to 640-480 when you use the original resources anyway? I guess it would only make the file-size bigger then... 

[Orieac]

Mmmh... I don't quite get it. Why do you have to switch the resolution to 640-480 when you use the original resources anyway? I guess it would only make the file-size bigger then... 

That is because the backgrounds are vector pictures:

The pic (background picture) resource format used in SCI0 is rather complex in comparison to the other graphical resource formats. It is best described as a sequence of drawing operations on a set of four 320x200 canvases, three of which are later used in the game (visual, priority, and control), and one of which is used during the drawing process for auxiliary purposes
(see here: http://freesci.linuxgames.com/scihtml/x2396.html)

[DCillusion]

I like the idea.

While I like the "retro" feel of classic games, there are some things I didn't remember until I break out the emulators; like how awful the edges were.  Cleaning up the lines would give the game a feel that I think I remember, as opposed to what it really was.

[What a loser.]

Honestly, you've made the graphics worse, you've lost detail and now you just have strokes of the same colours. I think you should rather made a original gmae rather than remake a game thats beyond your talents.

[DeadSuperHero]

Now, now, Alias. Never doubt talent. He's obviously just starting out. No need to be harsh.

[Totoro]

To be honest, I did not understand a word of your explenation... but its your webspace and your bandwith in the end, so as long as I get to play SQ3 in point and click I will be happy.. good luck! 

[Ozzie]

Wow, Space Quest III, the only sierra parser game I played through. Honestly, EGA wasn't already really bearable for me (though I don't have problems with them anymore) and then those idiotic controls? How often I hate to guess the word...I played the german translation but with a english walkthrough but the exact words translated into german didn't work often!!
I played it with walkthrough non-stop, it had some fun moments, though I though it would have been much better with mouse controls....

So this remake makes sense, huh? Well, I only hope you get it right and transfer everything from the original into the remake.
I'm curious how you plan to make the arcade sequences...

Ozzie

[Orieac]

Honestly, you've made the graphics worse, you've lost detail and now you just have strokes of the same colours.

This is how original SQ3 looks like:



I found this worse, but thats just me. And this isn't over yet (the colors may change).

I'm curious how you plan to make the arcade sequences...

I chose this remake to learn how to script in AGS. I will try to make the game like the original, including the arcade sequences. But i know it will be very hard to make then like the original.

Orieac

Edit by Darth - I have combined your double post into this one.  Please use the modify link rather than double posting.  Thanks!

[Darth Mandarb]

I've had plans to remake Space Quest III for awhile now ... just too many other projects keep coming up first!

If you're going to remake the graphics into a VGA style I would recommend changing them much more than you have.

As you have them now they're very similar to the originals and thus the comparison makes the new images suffer.  The reason I say suffer is because most of us, myself included, consider the EGA graphics of Space Quest III just about as good as EGA graphics get.  So making them so similar tends to 'clash' if you take my meaning.

If you're going for more than 16 colors, go all out with colors and shading.  Keep the 'feel' of each background, but differentiate it enough to avoid such similarity to the originals!

Best of luck.

[deltamatrix]

I chose this remake to learn how to script in AGS. I will try to make the game like the original, including the arcade sequences. But i know it will be very hard to make then like the original.

If you only work to learn how to script. Why bother updating the gfx in a pointless way? Why not just leave the original gfx as they are and implement the point and click functionality. What better way is there to practise your AGS scripting skills using readymade gfx.

[Orieac]

If you only work to learn how to script. Why bother updating the gfx in a pointless way? Why not just leave the original gfx as they are and implement the point and click functionality. What better way is there to practise your AGS scripting skills using readymade gfx.

I want to finish this someday. Right now dealing only with the script is the only way to speed up.
Like i said the pictures are vector type. So this doesn't give much work.
Have you tried the "demo" in full screen?  I mean, when you look at then at full screen they don't look so diferent from the old ones. And if you don't like then you can change the engine resolution to 320x200.

If you're going for more than 16 colors, go all out with colors and shading.  Keep the 'feel' of each background, but differentiate it enough to avoid such similarity to the originals!

Best of luck.

I would like to see each background with more color (and shading). More or less like the canceled SQ3:VGA project. But my first objective is to finish the game with a text parser to point & click change. So right now i search for someone who can help me with the remake so that someday it can be completed.

Orieac

[InCreator]

Whoo, that's some good news, I never gathered enough willpower to finish the original one.
Point'n'click makes this available for me...

[PhiloHippus]

I don't get all this fuss about the graphics. The graphics aren't being remade as of yet, they're simply being re-rendered at at a higher resolution using freesci. They are the original vector graphics which due to their vector nature would be wasted if not presented in a remake with the possibility of higher resolutions... if someone prefers the 320x200 look that person just has to set the game to run at that resolution and that's it! I really see no more than good news here.

[big brother]

Maybe, but that first screenie is definitely not 16 color EGA. Look how many shades of red are present in the engine (?) as compared to the skilful dithering in the original version.

[PhiloHippus]

Maybe, but that first screenie is definitely not 16 color EGA. Look how many shades of red are present in the engine (?) as compared to the skilful dithering in the original version.

The shades are coded into the vector graphics. When you capture the graphics with an interpreter that is not restrained by the hardware limitations that existed back in 1989, things come out that were drawn but were not reproducible at the time, such as the shades of a main tone being reproduced in flat colours instead of dithered ones. And this is an improvement, for the shading info was already there, it was just not viewable at the time, and it is now.

This is a remake, it is not a carbon copy of the original, nor is the final objective of this game to simply provide SQ3 with a point-n-click interface. The aim is higher and if all goes well it will become a full colour remake. But in the meantime, as long as the author doesn't find someone skilled in background art to help bring SQ3 into fully new colorized screens, these bonus his-res renders will suffice to keep work flowing.

So what really should be in discussion here is the availability of volunteers to help with the art remake and not the resemblance between these graphics and the 1989 EGA version ones.

For the die-hard EGA fans this is not the remake to look for, you can type your way through the original SQ3 anytime you want.

In conclusion, beloved artists out there, do lend a hand if you may, SQ fans will appreciate the effort

Cheers

[big brother]

My main problem is that the new rendering fails to provide the texture that the dithering gives objects. Also, I see the engine as being in shadow, hence the black dithering in the original background. Your image gives a different interpretation. I don't think you can necessarily call your way BETTER than the original.

It's not a big deal though, and I wish you luck with your project.

[What a loser.]

True, Space Quest 3 could be considered one of Sierra's best adventure games. It had great music, the graphics style is very good, very detailed for what they had to work with. Im not being harsh, its just there is no point in making a remake if you make it look worse, do something like the LSL2 P&C remake, he kept the same graphics and just remake it with point and click interface. Just dont take a classic and make it worse, if you make a Sierra fan project there are going to be high hopes because of the excelent quality that Sierra made them.

[Khaveen]

I'm sorry, but if I wanted to play such a game, I'd use FreeSCI. Honestly. No need to waste time and efforts. It's the same, no, it's even worse, because these particular vector graphics were made for 320x200. My advice - optimize it. Even though it's re-rendered in 640x400, it's still blocky and doesn't make any sense. Load Photoshop up, do some pixel-editing. Or just make plain SQ3 Point and Click a la Larry 2 remake, without any graphical changes. Because it's stupid to do only the half of the job.

[Orieac]

I'm sorry, but if I wanted to play such a game, I'd use FreeSCI. Honestly. No need to waste time and efforts. It's the same, no, it's even worse, because these particular vector graphics were made for 320x200. My advice - optimize it. Even though it's re-rendered in 640x400, it's still blocky and doesn't make any sense. Load Photoshop up, do some pixel-editing. Or just make plain SQ3 Point and Click a la Larry 2 remake, without any graphical changes. Because it's stupid to do only the half of the job.

The first goal is to do a point & click remake. Of course that i would like to improve graphics and thats why i created this topic (to ask for some help). Maybe it was not a good choice to show the screenshots, since These may not be the final images.  But i had to, since there are rules to follow in the "AGS Games in Production" section (at least 2 screenshots).

My second goal is to finish the remake. There are already several canceled SQ remakes and there is no need to add another one. So right now i'm only making the script. If no one helps then gfx edit will have to come later.

And please before judging the screens try the demo, because they look a little different in full screen. Then please write, you opinion.

Orieac