Suitable discussion?

[2ma2]

Many of you seem to rage against the so called "useless posts", a specific set of text without meaning, purpose or value. The current warlord of this be the often insulted Flukeblake, but I ask simply;

Why is these posts regarded pointless?

In my oppinion, knowing that a specific person suddenly grew a vast amount of inches (and don't get me wrong here) is just as valuable information as SONY fudging up your computer.

Is it the personal issue, that height is only something regarded to the thread starter? People post threads about how they plan to buy specific consoles or earlobe issues, or pictures of newborn sons. No flaming there..

Is it that height is completely invaluable topic discussions, or growth? Pfft!

Browsing through the general forum, I find that most threads hands out to actual questions about a specific subject. Others are welcoming to discussions of a specific subject, which differs from questions since the starter adds his 2 cents first and ask for others. A kind of query about personal preferences in order to know the forumites further. Then we have the informational subjects; newsworthy stuff. "I have to tell the others about this shit going down". Here's where my biggest concern is. Well not concern but question then. What decides whether it is newsworthy or not? General interests? We're gamers so news about games attract us? Social concerns? We are social creatures and the very forum is social, thus social matters qualify?

In any sense, Flukeblakes height may have interested few, but it is as valid as pictures of babies any day in terms of social engangement and reference. But let us NOT fall in the pit of debating whether a person should be flamed or not, THIS THREAD IS NOT MEANT TO DISCUSS A SPECIFIC FORUMITE! I MEAN IT, I'LL BLOODY PM-FLAME YOU IF YOU DO! This thread is a 'query' according to aformentioned genres, and what I REALLY ASK about, after all this is:

How do you decide whether you should click that 'new topic'-button or not. Have you not had a moment of doubt? Have you pondered whether this is a suitable subject of discussion or not? If so, on what basis do you decide its suitability?

[Nine Toes]

Actually, I think some people (...some who have been here for years...) start some pretty retarded posts themselves, it's not just the newbies.  Plus, it's all relative how pointless a post is.

I usually only start a new topic if I have a question that can't be answered by "Googling" something.

EDIT: Nevermind that last part I posted before.  It's dumb.

[Babar]

In all honesty, the General Forums are completely useless. Not to say I don't enjoy them, or I wouldn't miss them if they went away. These are Adventure Game Studio forums, so anything that doesn't have to do with Adventures, Games or Creation Programs would essentially be useless.

Since we DO have a General forum, I'd assume ANY topic would be post worthy. In my opinion, the "Falling to the 2nd Page", In-thread Flaming, Locking, Deleting are all well working filtering processes for checking the quality of a thread. If someone was REALLY not interested in how tall someone grew, aside from a few "This is a dumb thread" posts, no one would have posted in the thread. The thing is - right now - the "Apparent Annoyingness of Flukeblake" seems a more interesting topic of discussion than "I finally grew a few inches". I'm sure you've noticed, if someone else had posted such a thread, there would have been less outcry.

You can PM-FLAME me now

[Nacho]

It is not about "what" do you post, but on "how" do you post. Google for Andail's photojournal when he went to Egypt, and google for Flukeblake's trip journal to see what I mean.

One thing is to post pics, feelings, info about local culture... and the other is to say "I am in Tasmania, I had a great breakfast! I'll post more about this some of this days..."

And never come back to the thread.

Of course, I don't want to focus this on a member that I don't think that deserves such attention, but its a point that hopes that can be applied to many posts:

A post saying "Hey, my wife had a baby, post about it, suckers!" would suck. A post with pics, some info, and some tender words is, even being basically the same, suitable.

Hope it makes sense and explains my point.

[Andail]

If people think more before posting, there would be more interesting topics per thread started. This would encourage more mature and thoughtful people to partake in the discussions.
If every thread was some random tossed out question without any personal reflections, people would grew tired of the entire forum and move to something else.
It's all a matter of forming this forum into something better.

Linus, you're not a very frequent poster these days, so I take it that you don't care very much for the gen-gen anyhow.

I'm not being too harsh moderator-wise when it comes to gen-gen, but I'd certainly prefer if people stopped starting threads for the only purpose of having more started threads, if they waited until they actually had something interesting to say or share.
I'm not naming anyone, just a general thought.

[AlbinoPanther]

If i am happy about something and i want to share it with you guys is that a stupid thing to do?

[Kinoko]

You'll PM FLAME me? Jesus christ, 2ma2 @_@

It is a general forum and of course, ultimately, what stays and what goes comes down to the moderator's discression. However, when I see certain threads, I roll my eyes. Now I make some retarded threads. Purposely too, sometimes. But I believe it's an art to be able to make a retarded thread you know people will enjoy. Most of my purposely retarded threads have ended up generating a lot of discussion, retarded discussion as it may have been, and work pretty well. I think I'm mature enough, smart enough, and know the community well enough to pull it off, as are most people who have been here awhile. If everyone gave me flack for it though, I'd apologise and think twice before doing it again.

The reality of it is that when the majority of people here enjoy a thread, it'll go over nicely, regardless of the content. When they don't, some will do the "right" thing and ignore it and some will make a comment about what a *whatever* thread it is.

Part of why Fluke gets so much flack isn't just that people hold a grudge over his initial bad posts, but that he's still too young to be able to post in way most people here can relate to. I mean, I personally wanna talk with people who I have things in common with and in this community, that means people who 'get' old school adventure games and have similar memories to me in regards to gaming, life, etc. Now, age isn't the problem here as it has been stated over and over, a lot of very young posters here fit in really well. Heck, I wouldn't even know a lot of them were young. This is because of the way they post. They're mature enough, internet savvy enough and well spoken enough to "get away with it", as it were. Some kids aren't.

This isn't an attack on Fluke, just using him as the obvious example. Personally, I think he's coming along nicely and learning how to post well and fit in with the general community here. As he gets older and spends more time here, he'll "learn the ways" and fit in as well as anyone here.

Part of the reason for that, though, is BECAUSE people here make a big deal about his posts. I know it sounds like I'm a dickhead advocating bullying, but really, if a stink wasn't kicked up, the message wouldn't hit home. It happens with me all the time, it's like getting a slap in the face. It's just like when people come here with horrendous spelling and speaking leet. We make fun of them a lot and they get that people don't want it here.

I think the point I was trying to get to though is that there's still a real 'tone' of immaturity to Fluke's posts (speaking specifically about the height one). It's hard to miss. It's like when you can tell you're speaking to someone for whom english isn't their first language, even though gramatically it may well be correct. It's picking up on that that makes people see a real distance between them and said youngun', and it -can- be annoying when you've enjoyed having a forum full of essentially mates and peers for so long.

This is the way I read it anyway, and to be honest I'm pretty sure I'm 100% right on this one. We've been through it before with young RoXoRz!!1! posters and a lot of them are now awesome members of the community that post fine. If Fluke hangs around enough and continues to pick up the vibe of the place, he'll start to become a valued member here too.

I think you have to let the free market go on it's own merry way within reason. If people think a post is stupid, let them say. If everyone else thinks that person is being a negative dick, let THEM say. It'll balance out eventually.

EDIT: Now, my case in point, and I'm not doing this to piss anyone off, just trying to show what I mean. Fluke can still be a little immature or whatever, but he's growing on me. I think he's really starting to fit in bit by bit. LJUBI, on the other hand, still irks me to no end because they've been here long enough and had enough people spout opinions at them to know to start checking their spelling, grammar, whatnot and they don't. To me, I just haven't seen any posts that "fit in" with this community, and just about everything they post comes out sounding very... well, either severely controversial, not thought out, or just plain weird.

No specific offense intended, but that's the way I feel. I think others feel the same too, given the reception they usually receive.

[DGMacphee]

If people think more before posting, there would be more interesting topics per thread started. This would encourage more mature and thoughtful people to partake in the discussions.
If every thread was some random tossed out question without any personal reflections, people would grew tired of the entire forum and move to something else.
It's all a matter of forming this forum into something better.

I reckon Andail hits the nail on the head here.

When I read threads, I like a bit of subtance to them. More meat, less fat.

For an example of a thread without substance, take this grand masterpiece from Fluke...

It's finally happened!
After 13 years of being paid out about being short,
i've had a pretty big growth spurt.
While it's not drastic (about 75% of the class are taller than me)
it's a lot better.
I CAN ACTUALLY WALK DOWN A HALLWAY WITHOUT A YEAR 9+ MAKING A JOKE ABOUT MY HEIGHT!
Ah, the puberty system works.
Cheers,
(a normal, non-short) Fb.

While this might be a significant achievement for Fluke, it leaves me wondering "So what?" If Fluke really feels the need to fill the internet with the banal minutia of his life, why can't the fucker start a blog or a myspace profile? Everyone has one these days, so why can't he utilise the POWER OF TECHNOLOGY to do so.

If he's going to post on a forum, he has to consider that other people read it and can contribute. And it seems people on this forum perfer to contribute to something a little more thought-provoking.

I don't dissuade him from posting here but I do encourage that he tries harder at providing a little more substance. If he can't do that, then maybe he should find a forum that specialises in posting extremely trivial bullshit.

[Ghormak]

The best way to deal with a thread you don't like is of course to simply ignore it.

Which do you think is the better scenario:

"Hey look at me! This is a pointless thread!" - 0 replies

or

"Hey look at me! This is a pointless thread!" - 54 replies, 7 saying "lock this thread", 7 saying "don't pretend to be a moderator", 4 saying "what a waste of bandwith all these posts including mine are", 1 saying "bananas are delicious", 22 arguing about whether or not bananas actually are delicious, 11 more off-topic posts, 1 post saying "bush sux" and finally 1 where a moderator posts something and finally locks the thread.

I'd choose the first one.

(Oh, and btw, feel like posting "bananas are delicious" in this thread? Think it would be a funny post to counter this one? No. Please don't.)

[Andail]

(Oh, and btw, feel like posting "bananas are delicious" in this thread? Think it would be a funny post to counter this one? No. Please don't.)

Rats, I hate it when people disable me from making the only kind of humourous remarks I can accomplish.

[Squinky]

I'm more of a person that contributes to a started thread than a thread starter. I've always been intimadated by starting a thread, and unless I know it will be a good piece of conversation than I don't start it....Kind of like when speaking to people socially, I only really (try) to talk them about things that are conversation worthy. A person would look kinda silly if they started talking about what cereal they ate and how long their toenails were to a person who wasnt a close friend, and so a person looks silly when they do the same on the internet.

Do I think certain people that do this are a problem? Not really, the person in question only seems to do it about once a week, and it's not as if he's trolling the forums...

Anyway, we all know he's really DG in disguise anyway....

[EldKatt]

While this might be a significant achievement for Fluke, it leaves me wondering "So what?" If Fluke really feels the need to fill the internet with the banal minutia of his life, why can't the fucker start a blog or a myspace profile? Everyone has one these days, so why can't he utilise the POWER OF TECHNOLOGY to do so.

If he's going to post on a forum, he has to consider that other people read it and can contribute. And it seems people on this forum perfer to contribute to something a little more thought-provoking.

I don't dissuade him from posting here but I do encourage that he tries harder at providing a little more substance. If he can't do that, then maybe he should find a forum that specialises in posting extremely trivial bullshit.

A lot of posts leave me completely indifferent, yet interest others. What I consider quite fascinating and worthy of discussion, others may condemn as banal.

We're entering an area of considerable subjectivity here. Although Flukebake's low age might make his interests somewhat less likely to coincide with those of the avarage forum reader, thinking oneself capable of casting ultimate conclusive judgement over what topics are worth discussing can't lead to anything good. It's also rather pointless considering that, as Ghormak says, a pointless thread is (or should be) likely to die of its own accord. The only reason the post DGMacphee quoted grew to four or five pages is the overzealous attempts to preserve a good substance-to-nonsense ratio. Evidently, this was counter-productive.

This is one of those very few problems that actually do solve themselves if we ignore them. In fact, it becomes a problem only when we fail to do so.

[Squinky]

I agree with that last statement, but I also see merit in Kinoko's statement about people learning when they see what people think of their posts. They may never figure it out and go on like that forever, and nobody wants that.

[Afflict]

KINOKOS THREADS KICK @ss..

Pointless threads are why the general discussion thread has been made, for newbies, for veterans, and even some of the moderators which would just like to talk about something else accept ... <wait for a pointless ammount of seconds> Adventures!

Come on guys as much as we like to talk about the holy grail "that little blue cup" we have other interests and needs too! We like to share our feelings, and opinions on other topics and though they seem pointless to you, they mean alot to someone else and people that relate to that topic.

Point being that a almishman sees no use in electricity, but an electrician... 

[Evil]

Everytime this discussion comes up, I mention the post limits. Though, most of the time they are ignored.

I think one of the older examples is Jimi. Remember him? Damn, he was a pest. Was. He was limited to several posts a day, which helped put him on the back burner and simmer down. I know the realivence is low to the "frequent nonsence user", but I think it's all in the same. Place a limit, or a block, on starting new threads on this person. When they've matured some, the block can be lifted.

Or maybe the world news is dying out. Maybe topic ideas are just not in high existance anymore. Back in the day there'd be three or four threads with new posts in them. Now we've got a page.

The AGS community isn't about creating games anymore.

[Kinoko]

I just re-read my post and although IS awesome, I feel I went off on a tangent of backpedalling too much and my point was lost a little.

What I really want to say is that I really only want to talk to my peers (best term I can think of), people who are at least as old as I am and have similar experiences to me. Most people are like that. I just don't have a lot of patience for listening to the opinions of people who think Monkey Island 3 is a 'classic'. May sound harsh, but it's the truth, that's just what I'm interested in and it's one of the reasons I like these forums so much.

Although I do think Fluke has the capacity to fit in here with time, he's still annoying and has a LONG way to go. Still, I think he'll be fine in time.

That all said, I guess my real point is that I don't think silence is always the best way to deal with a "bad" thread. Sometimes, sure. There isn't a collective mind here though. We can't all link minds and decide to ignore a thread. I think it's best that individuals state their opinions and in the end, a collective, general opinion on a thread will emerge.

Afflict: Thankyou for the props but I think you missed my point somewhat. The General Forum -isn't- for pointless threads. It's about non-adventure threads. If the occasional silly thread starts up, that's fine with me, but it has to be well timed and you have to have a good sense to make it work. You have to be genuinely funny. It's the difference between being a DG, who posts greatly timed and executed replies, and a ... well, any one of a thousand other people whose 'funny' replies get lost or misconstrued because they just don't work.

For the most part, pointless threads should be discouraged because most people won't be able to pull them off. However, I don't think we need to lose our heads when one does start up.

If any of you are too new to remember Tanker - there was a guy that needed a post limit.

[DGMacphee]

Anyway, we all know he's really DG in disguise anyway....

I'm like the AGS equivalent of Fletch.

btw guys can you help me with my math hoemwork?

It's the difference between being a DG, who posts greatly timed and executed replies, and a ... well, any one of a thousand other people whose 'funny' replies get lost or misconstrued because they just don't work.

Thank you muchly for the kind words.

[PsychicHeart]

google for Flukeblake's trip journal to see what I mean.

I thought i told you this but maybe i didn't:
On the cruise, you had to buy Online Time (in the form of a card, with a code on it which you had to input on the menu of the Internet Cafe's computers),
i got 1 hour, and i had a shitty keyboard. I didn't have time to write full reports on each day and hitting the 's' key 20 times to get that letter into the post is one hell of an annoying and frustrating proposition.
And BTW, i don't consider this an "attack" on me, i am, as some have said, the obvious example, i've created positively pointless threads and most of the AGS population find me an annoying moron.
Go figure.
Blake.

[IM NOT TEH SPAM]

Useless posts?  Most of them are.  If you think about it, the rule is "interesting, helpful, or funny", two of which are useless.  Stupid threads are what amuse me the most--A retarded comment, and within seconds someone is right there to make some kind of response, while a question regarding the coding of a character switch trigger is left unanswered, and is forced to be bumped up before being responded to--which almost always starts with "don't bump you're own thread up".  Now, I haven't been around these forums for too long (21 Aug 2005, compare that to some senior members) but this is what I see going on at times.  A ridiculous comment gets many more (unintentional ) ridiculous answers.

In all honesty, the General Forums are completely useless. Not to say I don't enjoy them, or I wouldn't miss them if they went away. These are Adventure Game Studio forums, so anything that doesn't have to do with Adventures, Games or Creation Programs would essentially be useless.

IMO all of these forums are entirely useless... I decided that using the crit's lounge and Games In Production isn't going to help anything, and that I should learn to do everything myself.  Grant it sometimes I could use help with things, there's never much I couldn't figure out without asking for help from my family or reading a manual.  (This is just my personal view... I know others have gotten help from crits and GIP)

EDIT:  Ah, fb's response-- curse you're lightning fast typing!  The fact remains that the wording of your post wasn't the best, and could have been done better.

[Janik]

Bah, life's too short for silly internet drama. If a thread is not spamming or trolling, who cares?