3D Character and Walkcycle for Criticism

Ali · Fri 13/07/2007 16:43:58

This is Oliver Drummond, Junior Clerk and Stenographer at the Edinburgh Philosophical Society. He's the lead character in a game I'm working on called 'It's Not Nelly Cootalot 2*'.

I intended this character him to be reserved but likeable, rather like the illustrations of Edward Gorey. He's in his early thirties, and the early 20th century. I'd welcome any feedback on his design and walkcycle, but I'm particularly concerned with whether his face is sufficiently expressive. I wanted to give him a tiny mouth, but I wonder if it's too small to be seen - particularly in the walkcycle.

I had to shrink the walkcycle and lower the colours in order to upload it. It should be 133% of that size. I'll try to upload a better compressed version soon.

*Working title.

Hudders · Fri 13/07/2007 16:50:59

I don't think it's too small at all.

Looks fantastic to me; the only thing I can think of is that his suit doesn't seem to hang properly from him, as if he's just wearing a leotard painted to look like a suit.

pslim · Fri 13/07/2007 18:22:48

I think he's really fantastic. He reminds me somewhat inexplicably of Josef K., the protagonist of The Trial. He also has a certain Corpse Bride feel to him, which is great as far as I'm concerned, and I imagine Gorey's work was an influence on that film.

I do, though, agree with Hudders' comment about the suit. My only other nitpick would be that the geometry of his eye sockets doesn't really seem to match his small eyes and eyebrows.

I also think if the top right expression is meant to be one of perterbation you might bring the eyebrows together slightly. I think his face is perfectly capable of all the expression you'd need. This is a great character, imo.

Stupot · Fri 13/07/2007 18:28:55

He looks great...

Slightly feminine walkcycle, though. My sexuality was nearly called in to question when I saw that.

monkey0506 · Fri 13/07/2007 18:48:42

I agree that he has a somewhat Corpse Bride feel to him...but I think maybe more James and the Giant Peach. Either way, I love both movies.

This character looks GREAT! I love him the way he is.

Uku · Fri 13/07/2007 19:21:21

All I have to say is... ...Its awesome! It reminds me one movie that i never saw "corpse bride"... thin and long arms/legs, big head, etc.

oh, someone already posted about corpse bride, well i am too lazy to delete my "stuff" instead i will make twice as long note and .... i'll just shut up for now...

Venus · Fri 13/07/2007 21:53:20

I love the face. The mouth is perfect imo.
But I have to agree to Stupot. The walk-cycle really looks rather feminine, especially when the face is not visible. Maybe some slightly longer steps and a tad more bobbing?
But apart from that, it's great. Looking forward to that new game of yours.

Ghost · Fri 13/07/2007 22:08:36

Since most people have commented on the walkcycle (and I agree), let me tell you that the expressions are *superb*! You character really has a likeable and somewhat innocent face- might be the tiny black eyes that make him look a bit like a hamster (together with the face, and please don't take that as criticism, it looks like a perfect match!)

May I ask what software you're using to render that man?

Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens · Fri 13/07/2007 23:33:03

He reminds me of Edward Carnby, aka 'The Reptile' from Alone In the Dark 1. I also think his walk is too effeminate even for an effete intellectual type. Perhaps tilting his head and upper torso back a bit might help with that. Looks very professional!

radiowaves · Sat 14/07/2007 02:05:32

This is very pro! Walkcycle is perfect for my eyes, so I got nothing to crit. But face expressions could use some more character tough. i can see you have played with an upper cheek muscle in one image and moved eybrows too, but that isn't enough. Move his mustache in different mood expressions and some forhead muscles should move a bit too (you can even add more characteristics if you involve some hair movement in forhead muscle movement also).

Ali · Sat 14/07/2007 10:57:56

Hudders: For the most part the details are modelled rather than textured, so I should be able to remedy the leotard look. However I was aiming for a stop-motion feel, and I like the rubbery quality of clothing in some animated films. I'd like to know whether it looks stylistically poor to you, or just unrealistic.

Stupot, Venus & ProgZmax: Hey, that's based on MY walk! I ought to mince out of here right now! I suspect the femininity comes from the hand-on-hip stance combined with the swaying arm - which is offset so it swings lazily behind the rest of the movements. I want to keep the hand on the hip, so I'll try altering the arm and following your suggestions.

Ghost: Thanks! He was modelled and rendered in the marvelous open source package Blender3D. The skeleton was adapted from the free Ludwig Rig.

monkey_05_06 & Uku: Thanks for the comments. I didn't have the Corpse Bride or James and the Giant Peach in mind, but I do love the look of Burton/Selick stop motion.

radiowaves & pslim: Thanks for your suggestions regarding expression, I'll put more work into rigging his brow in particular.

pslim · Sat 14/07/2007 15:19:32

Quote from: Ali on Sat 14/07/2007 10:57:56
Stupot, Venus & ProgZmax: Hey, that's based on MY walk! I ought to mince out of here right now! I suspect the femininity comes from the hand-on-hip stance combined with the swaying arm - which is offset so it swings lazily behind the rest of the movements. I want to keep the hand on the hip, so I'll try altering the arm and following your suggestions.

I'm probably alone here, but there's nothing wrong with mincing, but I also don't think that's really what he's doing. He's not swinging his hips or shaking his modest bosom, and the walk didn't strike me as feminine before everybody said it was. I think it just isn't overtly masculine or exaggeratedly nerdy, which is great and shouldn't be altered drastically, in my opinion.

Snarky · Sat 14/07/2007 17:11:15

I agree with your analysis that the walkcycle comes off as effeminate because of the arms, and (I would add) the curve of the spine. If the left arm moved more dynamically, I think it would look less mincing without any danger of becoming too macho.

MashPotato · Sat 14/07/2007 20:23:12

That character looks so endearing

(not to mention, fabulous). For the arm-swinging, perhaps make it go a little further forward to make it a little more masculine? (though I think that may already have been what you were planning on doing). It sounds like you don't want to alter the other arm, but just as a suggestion: maybe make the forearm straight instead of being bent at the wrist, so it's a little "stronger" and less delicate? I don't know if that will actually help or not, but I thought I'd mention it just in case

Great work so far!

loominous · Sat 14/07/2007 21:32:58

Think the style is really cool, but I can't say I sympathize with the character just by looking at him.

I think it might be the very small mouth n open eyes along with worried eyebrows that to me gives this Betty Boop coquettish expression that I very much don't like.

Or it might be something less tangible bothering me. As I seem to be the only one bothered by this, perhaps it's just some personal hang up that would best be ignored.

I think just mirroring the angle of the right upper arm will fix much of the effeminate quality though it adds some stiffness:

(animated)

Anyway, love the time period n presented environment so I'm very much looking forwards to it!

buloght · Sat 14/07/2007 21:40:54

It looks great ali

pro stuff.

Stupot · Sun 15/07/2007 10:03:41

I know what it is! He needs... how can I put this?... a lunchbox.
At the moment he could be advertising Always Ultra with Wings for all we know.

Ali · Sun 15/07/2007 11:31:32

pslim: I agree that there's nothing wrong with mincing. Don't worry about drastic changes. I do plan to follow some of these good folks' suggestions, but he won't come back walking like Sylvester Stallone!

Snarky: You're right that his back is very arched, but I'm glad you don't suggest changing it. I will make subtle adjustments to the swing of the arm.

mashpotato: I'm very glad you're endeared to him. A straighter arm would look less ladylike, but because his arms are so long it would mean his elbow would jut out further in side view. That's how I originally had it, and it looked unnatural...

loominous: So I hear you hate Betty Boop, eh? Betty Boop style animations have always made me feel a bit sick, but good. I don't know why. Your edit on the arm looks great from the front angle. Based on that, and mashpotato's observations I will attempt to find a better compromise between rigid and 'delicate'.

buloght: Thanks!

Stupot: I beg your pardon?! This is the 1920s, such things didn't exist! Actually, since posting this I've already brought his thighs a bit closer together and added crease-lines in that region to give a little more definition during movement. I don't want to go too far with it, I'm happy for him to have a somewhat cartoon-animal quality in that department.

One question I'd like to ask to anyone who cares to answer is regarding colour depth. I'm tempted towards 32 bit, so I can maintain smooth edges and his shadow. The lack of smooth scaling in 32 bit would compel me to design rooms in which the characters stayed at full size almost all the time. I wonder if that would damage the dynamism and solidity of an apparently three dimensional environment.

On the other hand, jagged edges and no shadows might compromise the visual quality and overall aesthetic. I'd like to know what would be more significant to you as a player.

Eggie · Sun 15/07/2007 15:19:45

Oh my God. Love it.

Snarky · Sun 15/07/2007 15:22:52

Quote from: Ali on Sun 15/07/2007 11:31:32
One question I'd like to ask to anyone who cares to answer is regarding colour depth. I'm tempted towards 32 bit, so I can maintain smooth edges and his shadow. The lack of smooth scaling in 32 bit would compel me to design rooms in which the characters stayed at full size almost all the time. I wonder if that would damage the dynamism and solidity of an apparently three dimensional environment.

On the other hand, jagged edges and no shadows might compromise the visual quality and overall aesthetic. I'd like to know what would be more significant to you as a player.

Don't use AGS. Seriously. Make the game with an engine that can handle smooth scaling in 32 bit, such as Wintermute.