Topic: Forums not what they used to be

[SSH]

Perusing the forum stats, I notice that there's a steady decline in the number of posts and new topics each month. Also, I find myself usually entirely uninterested in anything that comes up except in Tech forum and Completed Games. Is it me, or are the forums on a slow decline?

Discuss.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

A sensationalist topic to attract attention?  How unsurprising! 

There are always a heap of posters who appear out of nowhere, grace the forums with their opinions for a few weeks/months, and then either disappear or show enough attitude to make themselves no longer welcome by consensus.  This is a pretty common event in all forums, really, with periods of high activity as people appear and periods of low activity when they move on or the regular forum members have other things to do.  These few months also comprise a few major holidays for a lot of people, so they are no doubt busy dealing with that. 

I'm not really sure what the point of this post is other than to say 'wah ;('.  Not trying to be a dick, but seriously, if you want there to be more activity then why not contribute more relevant posts to encourage others to do so?

Finally, does it really matter if fewer people are cluttering the threads?  AGS will keep being updated regardless, and the people who like using it will continue to do so.  I see no problem here!

[Babar]

Yay! This means we are in an era of game creation! The masters of the new age shall create the legends of this generation, after which we shall have another age to talk about those legends.

* Babar  prophetically points into the future while wearing a hooded shirt

Actually, I've been doing the opposite lately. I check out the General, Adventure and Critics Lounge mostly. But then again, I'm mostly a lurker. On another note, I wonder how long a forum generation is?

[Nacho]

I' ve been like 20 times close to do this very same post, SSH. The problem is not the number of new threads, IMO, but the quality. Seems that nowadays most of them are "I have a blog", or "Somebody knows this website?" or "My screen has a blue blob in a corner, how can I solve it?".

I think that the reason is that heavy weights do not longer post, at least in an active way. No Helms, no DGs, not much Andail... The only posts that results interestings now (as far as I remember, maybe later I will remember more) are RickJ's. Apparently threads like this appear each two or three years, so, probably the level is just the same as it was, but maybe some of the "oldies" have a bit nostalgia of the way we "remember" the forums before.

[SSH]

I'm not really sure what the point of this post is other than to say 'wah ;('.  Not trying to be a dick, but seriously, if you want there to be more activity then why not contribute more relevant posts to encourage others to do so?

Because I want other people to do the hard work, duh

[ambientcoffeecup]

I'll be honest here. This is my second account here. The first one being "BunnyMilk." I didn't ever really leave, I was idle on IRC or browse the forums but I wont post and try my best not to talk on IRC because really you all make me feel pretty unwelcome. And I don't know why that is, maybe it's just attitude towards newer members or whatever but I don't want to post or talk because the response I usually get is just like "WHO ARE YOU YOUR OPINION DOESN'T EVEN COUNT *SCOFF*." and it's pretty unwelcoming.

Maybe other people feel the same way and because you are the regular posters who are settled in your ways you just don't really get that it is happening.

That's just my opinion though.

[Nacho]

I think that no one can say "I REALLY tried to fit here, be I only got bad replies". God, even the most unpopular member finally ended being respected and having a reputation after having a bit of patience and posting in a mature manner (Flukeblake).

[ambientcoffeecup]

I don't think I ever posted immaturely or was ever disrespected or anything? I think I was just another guy. What I meant was that the attitude towards new members was fairly unwelcoming at the time and saying "Well if you just stick it out and post maturely that will be cool." doesn't really cut it if it is not the fault of the new member wanting to post, just that the current members are skeptical of new members joining thinking that everyone is just another Internet lame-ass who can be treated like jerks until they leave so that us, the elitist regulars can keep to ourselves.

Anyway I don't want to come across as a jerk already after just 4 posts on my new account but that was the impression I got the first time round. Maybe it's different now.

[Nikolas]

Well...

The main new thread creators are somewhat gone...
The immature people have mature...
The annoying people have felt...

What did you expect?

[jaz]

Hi, it has been a long time since my last post on AGS Forum . So the forums are not what they used to be? How come?

You know what is strange? I was a frequent visitor (more lurker rather than heavy poster) over here a few years back. It was kind of an escape from reality for me. And then something changed. What? Ummm.... I started to work in a game company. Not PC but mobile phones one. And from that point games were no longer a pastime but a regular job. I still loved games (and I still do) but once you have gaming as a job you somehow don´t feel all that tempted to spend much of your free time reading about.. games. This is maybe an offtopic rant but worth two cents anyway.

[Nacho]

I don't think I ever posted immaturely or was ever disrespected or anything? I think I was just another guy. What I meant was that the attitude towards new members was fairly unwelcoming at the time and saying "Well if you just stick it out and post maturely that will be cool." doesn't really cut it if it is not the fault of the new member wanting to post, just that the current members are skeptical of new members joining thinking that everyone is just another Internet lame-ass who can be treated like jerks until they leave so that us, the elitist regulars can keep to ourselves.

Anyway I don't want to come across as a jerk already after just 4 posts on my new account but that was the impression I got the first time round. Maybe it's different now.

I think that your honestity will be appreciated and you' ll probably becoming more popular (in the good sense) that you would without posting, but what I meant was not "Maybe you posted like a jerk with your first account!" but "Maybe you didn' t tried enough" or "Maybe you had an intial (and false) feeling of not being welcomed, but you were".

Good luck with your second account, though! 

[Stupot+]

I think most of the forums are as good as they ever were.  It's only really the General Forum that seems to have run out of ideas. But this could be a good thing.  Maybe it means people are concentrating on the creative side and we should be expecting some awesome games in the not-too-distant future.

The General forum is a bit slow these days.  But it will pick up again.  It's like newspapers when they go through a spell of having nothing to talk about so they report on Queen Elizabeth II's rubber duck [The Sun September 12th 2001].

As for feeling welcome as a newbie.  I joined about a year ago, having been a lurker for a while beforehand.  I made sure my first post didn't break any rules and I was more active in the Beginner's forum and Critics lounge.  This showed I was proactive and keen and therefore I was generally quite well accepted.  You can't be friends with everyone, but that's the same in real life.

[Oliwerko]

As for me, I have periods when I am not so much interested in discussing on forums, and I have periods when I am hyper-active. If everyone has these, that it can be understandable that such things happen...

[RickJ]

I've had similar thoughts off and on for a while now.  I mostly have attributed it to my own interest waxing and waning but have also thought perhaps there may be other factors.   

• Political Winds of Change - I use the terms "Liberal" and "Conservative" here loosely because they mean different things in different countries.  It seems to me that when I first joined the AGS forums "Liberal" opinions went mostly unchallenged and "Conservative" opinions were few and heavily criticized.   I have a sense that this is no longer the case and wonder if true what impact it would have on the forum?
  
  
• Over Moderation - Occasionally I see "You guys run a really tight hip over here ..."  type comments and wonder if perhaps our ship is a little too tight.   I know it's a thankless job being a moderator and I personally have no complaints about how things are being run.  I'm just not sure that everyone, especially our newer members see it that way.   I don't want to single anyone out but I remember a recent example that illustrates my point.
  
  A new member asked something to the effect "I am excited about AGS but don't even know where to start, it's kind of overwhelming.  Would someone be willing to hold my hand a bit to help me get started?"  The response was basically "Read the manual and be more specific." and the thread was locked.   Perhaps it would have been better to explain that such a generic and broad appeal for help is  unlikely to generate much response and then explain that most people begin by following the tutorial in the manual and ask more specific questions as they come up.  Then leave the thread open to die a natural death, who knows someone may have jumped in with encouragement and help?
  
  Anyway it's perhaps something to think about.
  
  
• Linux Brain Drain - Has anyone wondered how many sharp young minds we loose to Linux-ers everyday?   Our method of Checking the fourm stats to see what OS the members are using so as to determine their references is a bit flawed.   If they are using the forum, they are most likely using AGS.  If they are using AGS then they are most certainly doing so in Windows. 
  
  
• Overwhelming, Overbearing Old Farts - such as myself sometimes get carried away participating in discussions, especially GENGEN ones.   I suppose some people are not accustomed to being confronted with opposing points of view and so feel uncomfortable and intimidated when it happens.  I wonder if we (i.e. me) should restrain ourselves more often and to what extent.  Maybe something like a 50 words or less posting limit.      
  
  On a more serious note, maybe we should establish a debating etiquette where in the case where if someone is overwhelmed, offended, intimidated, or looses badly, the winning or offending participant sends a polite PM saying that they enjoyed the discussion and not to take anything said there personally.  Just a thought.
  
  

  Not trying to be a dick, but seriously, if you want there to be more activity then why not contribute more relevant posts to encourage others to do so?
  

  You must be joking right?  SSH is one of our most prodigious contributors.  Perhaps we should resolve to follow his example?
   
  

  Finally, does it really matter if fewer people are cluttering the threads?  AGS will keep being updated regardless, and the people who like using it will continue to do so.  I see no problem here
  

  Interests change over time and people move on.  How many members do you think we have that are over  30, 40 or 50 years old.   If nobody is interested in AGS then CJ won't be either and it will pass into cyber history along with C/PM and  paper tape. 
  
  P.S. Nacho, thanks for the kind words
  
  [edit]
  I almost forgot, SSH you have plagiarized the great baseball player Yogi Berra who once said
  "The future ain't what it used to be!" 

[SSH]

SSH is one of our most prodigious contributors.  Perhaps we should resolve to follow his example?
 

We need more posts, like this one, that:

a) Say nice things about me
b) Allow me to make pithy, trite replies

[Tuomas]

The real reason is that lately I've been dating my girlfriend and haven't been here so often to bring the quality to the posts and opinions. Sorry about that, I'll try and change it.

[Nacho]

• Political Winds of Change - I use the terms "Liberal" and "Conservative" here loosely because they mean different things in different countries.  It seems to me that when I first joined the AGS forums "Liberal" opinions went mostly unchallenged and "Conservative" opinions were few and heavily criticized.   I have a sense that this is no longer the case and wonder if true what impact it would have on the forum?
  
  P.S. Nacho, thanks for the kind words
  

Hehe, you' re welcome... To Caesar what belongs to Caesar.

But I don' t understant the first part... Do you mean that it is easier to tell in this forums that you are liberal or conservative now?

HOW HARD WAS BEFORE???  

And I can' t realise how being easier to express an opinion (liberal opinions, in this case) can be bad to the forums? Maybe I understood the whole sentence in the oposing way it means... sorry. ^_^

[RickJ]

But I don' t understant the first part... Do you mean that it is easier to tell in this forums that you are liberal or conservative now?

Let me try to explain a little better.

It seems to me that before if you expressed a "Liberal" political opinion almost everybody would agree with you and few if any would disagree.  If you expressed a "Conservative" opinion almost everyone would disagree with you and hardly anyone would agree with you.   I think that (or wonder if) it is now more balanced in stead of being all one way

If true then it would have been easier to express a "Liberal" opinion before because you would be assured that everyone would agree with or at least accept what you said.

I think every once in a while poor old Nacho finds that he is that one lone voice who disagrees with the masses.    

I don't really know if politics have changed that much, I just sometimes wonder.  Who can know about that stuff for sure anyway? 

[LimpingFish]

About being made feel unwelcome; I've never seen anyone being treated as such, save for those who, in some manner, brought it on themselves.

"n00bs" (hateful term as it is) have always been, imho, treated fairly and with respect, as opposed to other forums I've had the misfortune of frequenting.

But if you never post or say anything, to make your presence known, you're bound to feel that people are ignoring you.

Regarding elitist members: Who are these people? I've been a regular, contributing member for almost four years, and I've yet to receive my Elitest Membership Card and Secret Decoder Ring.

Sure, there are those members who have been here from the "beginning", but they don't, or rather shouldn't, command any more respect, beyond common courtesy, than regular law-abiding members. They certainly don't get it from me (buncha lousy crumb-bums), and I doubt they have the overwhelming desire to be treated as forum royalty.

If they wish to engage in such behaviour amongst themselves (secret handshakes, genital tattoos, etc) then they are free to do so. But I rarely see them flaunt such behaviour in public, or "pull rank" on us plebs.

EDIT: These forums still seem fairly liberal to me.

[Pumaman]

Well, you could argue that a thread like this comes up about once a year like clockwork; but on the other hand it is interesting to see in the forum stats that over the last 4 months, the number of posts has reduced by about 20% from its previous level.

And if you go back to the heady highs of summer 2004, there were twice as many posts each day as there are now.

But at the same time, the number of new members and the number of active members each month has stayed about the same for the last couple of years.

So what does this tell us? We've got the same number of people, but they're making fewer posts. You could argue that's because at the moment we don't have any over-posting kids running riot all over the forums, but surely they never accounted for 1000 posts per month.

Which leaves us with a few possible conclusions:
* Are fewer people using AGS, thus the Tech forums have less posts?
* Are people being put off by heavy-handed moderation, and thus posting less?
* Have people gone to other forums like Adventure Gamers to discuss more general adventure-related topics?
* Has the General Forum quietened down due to a lack of interesting threads?

I'd say it could well be a bit of each.
As Rick has, I've also seen the AGS Forums referred to as over-moderated and unfriendly, particularly with reference to the Games in Production and Beginners Tech Forum. But it's only natural for the moderators there to get frustrated when they see the same "newbie threads" coming up day in day out, and I'm grateful to them for sticking with it.

Perhaps Nacho is right in that some of our more thought-provoking posters aren't active much any more. But that's no excuse, because there are always new people joining and they can't all be boring!

One thing I have noticed about these forums is that when somebody starts an engaging thread, it can explode very quickly into a huge thread. There have been days when I've checked the General Forum one night and found nothing of interest, and then checked it the next day and found a new thread with 150 replies that have all been posted in the meantime.

Which tells us perhaps that we still have just as active a community as ever, but that most of the time people don't find anything interesting to post about.