Mittens 2009: Pre-Planning *Updated 1/25/09* Location Question

[Grundislav]

Hello,

As you may know, I will be hosting Mittens 2009 in Miami, Florida.  I've started this thread to get some input from potential attendees regarding where to stay.  As of right now, I've been able to find a couple of options, but each has its pros and cons.  So I will be taking into account people's preferences when choosing a place to stay.

Originally, I had this place in mind.  It's cheap and in a decent location.  Even though it is essentially an RV park, it has cabins which can be rented.  However, a look on the map of the site shows that the cabins are a bit spaced out from each other.  If we were to only rent the one big cabin, the limit is 16 people.

Another option I've been looking into is house rental.  There are several nice, large houses available to rent in many areas of the city.  The downside is that they aren't as accommodating as the French chateau,  and the largest one I've been able to find is 22 people.  This probably won't be as cheap as the campsite, but it won't be horribly expensive.

A third option which may be necessary if more than 20 people come is to rent a house elsewhere.  I know there are large beach homes for rental on Florida's west coast, which is about a 2 hour drive from Miami.  We would be able to come to the city on day trips no problem.

So basically this all depends on how many people come.  I would hate to have to set an attendance limit, but it might be necessary in some cases.  Please discuss.

Also, Darth or Mills - if you guys are aware of any places in Florida that rent houses that can fit 25 + people, please let me know.

EDIT 11/3/08
This is the place I'm looking at now.

Update 1/25/09
The house people got back to me and informed me that the original property is no longer available to rent.  They did, however send me links to two other properties which are in a nice area.  The choice lies with how extravagant we want to be.

Oceanfront house?
or
Historic Mansion?

Personally, I lean more towards the mansion, as it's slightly cheaper and has more rooms/amenities.  If we get 20 people it will be less than $300 per person for the week, so not a bad deal.  They are relatively in the same location, so getting around won't be a problem.

Input is appreciated!

[TerranRich]

You know, my wife now works for a hotel reservation company, and we get rooms for dirt cheap. If we ever wanted to take a vacation next year, we'd go to Disney World and/or Universal... and maybe drop by Mittens. :p

[Disco]

Well you have to consider that both North American meetings so far haven't cracked the 20 mark. At 16 people in Canada, it was a bit less than the two previous European meetings, so perhaps it would be wise to think in those terms.

A house would be ideal given that we have been spoiled over the last couple years, and 22 seems doable for a North American meeting.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

I like the first option just fine, but then again, I'm not extremely picky about where I sleep as long as I have my own bed.  And yes, this means my potential for attending this Mittens is above *0%!

Edit:  I notice that spot has 2-room lodges for 109 a day vs the 179 a day for the bunkhouse, with the bonus of showers and a working fridge.  Two of these might be a better idea, imo (218 vs 179 for 2 working showers and two fridges sounds good to me!).  I'm sure if they were reserved early enough we could get them next to each other? I'm not sure what the deluxe version offers for the extra 20.  Is it possible for you to call them and find out if there's any real difference?

*train fees to be determined as I hate and refuse to take a plane.

[Pet Terry]

I will come.

Options 2 and 3 look the best to me, but if we are 16 or less we might as well go with the first option. As long as we don't have to sleep in tents! It would be nice to have a big room/area where we can all gather to socialize and stuff, as far as I remember the campsite didn't really have anything suitable?

I don't really mind if it is not in the middle of Miami, as long as it's not too many hours away from Rapids Water Park!!

[Esseb]

I'll be there.

Anything but tents is fine for me, but one large house would be ideal. Some kind of common area like Petteri mentioned would probably be nice also, so I suppose I vote for option 2 and 3 also.

[Nacho]

First: As said in Mittens 2008, we (Lore and me) will attend unless something serious unexpected happens... I know I haven' t attended to any transaltlantic mittens, but I' ve discovered that not enjoying Ryan' s ass for two years is too much for my heart. 

Second... I enjoyed a lot Benidorm Mittens, which seems to be the closest to this tropical-close-to-the-city event of options 2 and 3... but remembering the "magic moments" of the chateau and Swede Mittens make me doubt if we will have that with options 2 and 3, so... I don' t know. The thing is that I basically think that "those magic moments" can only be archieved in the not-too-hot-european forests, so, considering that, even option 1 wouldn' t do it, I would go for 2 and 3. (If everybody has in mind that it' s going to be a "different mittens" than the one in the Ardennes... Not worst, but different).

Less fires, less hiking, less brainy discussions, more theme parks, more discoteques and alcohol! I think that changing a bit is not bad... Basically, if I am with the mates I could go anywhere, and I will be with TRUE FRIENDS in mittens.

As for the attendance limit... I don' t know... I think that everybody enjoyed last mittens a lot and the expressed will to attend to Miami were true, so, I am quite optimistic about the cypher of attendants, even the overseas trip... But I am sure we will accomodate everybody. 

[Pumaman]

I agree that having our own house would probably be preferable, since it would give us a main common room to hang out in -- I think we all got a bit frustrated with not having anywhere like that at the Benidorm Mittens.

In terms of numbers, as Disco says the previous North American meets have had 13 and 16 people, so setting a limit of 20 (or 22) seems quite reasonable.

If we can arrange a day trip to Orlando to see some of the tourist sights there, so much the better!

[scotch]

Less fires, less hiking, less brainy discussions, more theme parks, more discoteques and alcohol!

You realise how awful this will sound to a large number of people right?

I'm going to try and make it but that depends entirely on money. I think a 20 person limit is reasonable but I definitely think it would be hit. For me it doesn't matter where in Florida it is, I don't really have any interest in the big attractions, just the Mittens! A house would be a huge bonus for me, I think the private group areas are about the most important feature of a mittens location.

[Radiant]

Sounds good.

On the last mittens some people mentioned going on a cruise near Miami, is that still in the plans or is it not mittens'y enough?

[Creed Malay]

 I am most definetly on for it! Though how I cope with the Florida heat remains to be seen. I get sunburned on cloudy days, and tend to sink into a semi-coherent and near sedated state in hot and humid enviroments. I've never been able to properly explain myself in that kind of climate.

I'd vote for the house, mainly for the communal group area thing mentioned earlier. We need a place to make plans and plot plots.

Scotch and Nacho - can't we hike from a disco to a theme park while having a brainy discussion and drinking? And then set the theme park on fire?

[Becky]

Adam and I shall endevour to be there.

[Adamski]

Less fires, less hiking, less brainy discussions, more theme parks, more discoteques and alcohol!

Woah there! No need to take away the best parts of mittens and replace them with the worst parts!

I'd vote for some sort of communal house type thing. The campsite/RV cabins look nice, but that would probably bring up the issue of not having any central private space for us mitteneers to go to. In Greece we could escape to the beach at night, make campfires and be merry together there without irritating any one else (or anyone irritating us!), but when we didn't have this in Benidorm it sort of fell apart.

Maybe a Beach home outside of Miami would be a good idea... it'd be awesome if we had a close beach to chill at that was a bit more secluded

[Grundislav]

So far it seems most people want a house.  I agree that this would probably be a better option.

It pretty much boils down to how many people show up.  If it's around 16-20 we'll probably be able to get a nice house within the city, if it's more we can get one on the west coast.

One thing to keep in mind is that Miami is not a city designed with walking in mind.  We will need cars to get around, even if we're in the city.  I have mine, which holds 4 people, so we will most likely need to rent a van like in Canada.

Florida is roughly the size of Great Britain.  It takes about 2 hours to cross the state, and about 3 1/2 to 4 hours to get to Orlando, so getting anywhere can easily be done in a day.

Radiant: A cruise wouldn't really work, unless you want to go on one of those booze/gambling cruises that last a day.  There's really no point in spending extra money to go out for 3 days if we have a house for 7.

I am looking at the last week of July for Mittens, so all you pasty European types had better make sure to pack your sunscreen. 

Less fires, less hiking, less brainy discussions, more theme parks, more discoteques and alcohol!

I don't know what the rules are regarding bonfires on Florida beaches, but we may have some.  Theme parks (Disney ones) are expensive and will be super crowded mid-summer, so I would hold off on those unless you're really really desperate to see Mickey Mouse.  Discoteques are reeeeaaaaallly not worth the bother.  Alcohol...well, it's Mittens. There will be alcohol.

[Nacho]

You realise how awful this will sound to a large number of people right?

That' s my opinion... And I think that taking mittens out of the forest and taking it to the beach will do that. I keep my opinion, sorry. If this Florida mittens ends up being so "magic" as Sweden or Greece, I will be the first one to be happy, but I doubt it will happen.

I will try to be more carefull next time. I will try not only not to concur on negative thinkings, but I also will try to avoid MENTIONING that those negative events exist. 

Ok... Sarcasm off, Now let' s go serious Did I say I preffer this "alcohol mittens" than the "intimate ones"? NO. Did I say less brainy discussions is good? NO. I was just mentioning that making Mittens in Miami (or Florida) opens the possibility to that "party attitudes". In some way I was trying to take preassure down to the organiser, since I was accused in some way of promoting that "alcoholic mittens edition" and of "not arrange enough activities".

A quite unfair statement, since I was sleeping at 23:00 while people was at pubs drinking, never received a complain about it by anybody since two weeks later, and organised the bigger amount of activities ever (Aqualandia, Terra Mítica, visit to the secret beach, visit to Sierra Aitana...)

Being a mittens host is complicate... There is a lot of people, and not everybody can be satisfied. Sometimes, even if you preppair everything will love, devotion, and illusion you don' t archieve the magic that there is in some editions which had barelly 0 preparation, like happened in "Le Chateau". I was just mentioning that in the following edition, which such a radical change of enviroment that might happen to Grundy, and it should be very unfair to him. Everybody voted for Miami mittens, so, of it' s not like in Vireaux, don' t complain... I am sure it will be great as well, in a different way.

Scotch: I don' t really see how mentioning the possibility of something to happen can be considered as "awfull", might "sound awfull" or needs to be censored in some way. I consider this forums as my home, a place where I come to see MY FRIENDS, and I wouldn' t like to go carefull, or have to think my sentences twice, specially with things of such a little importance.

Adam: Saying that "discoteques" and "alcohol" are "the worst part of mittens" is unfair. "Alcohol and discoteques are the worst of mittens (According to Adam)". That is perfect.

Alcohol and discoteques (or pubs, or a night of party, or booze) is very likely to happen in Miami, and, even if I (Nacho, as an indivudual member) might agree with your that it' s not be the best option, painting it as HORRIBLE from the very begining is unfair and an extra preassure for the organiser, although you don' t see it now.

Trust in him, and flow with the crowd. If the current takes you to a lovely conversation under Florida stars in front of a fire, cool, but it the current takes you to get drunk, embraced to your best AGS friend and singing "La cucaracha" loud, at 3 am, enjoy it aswell, man. Be preppaired for everything. Be a ninja.

That remembers me, Grundy... How is police in Miami? What would happen if a patrol car gets us embraced, walking in esses in the middle of a Miami Avenue singing "La cucaracha" aloud? Say percentages of:

a) They will say nothing, smile and leave us alone.
b) Be took the attention without getting out of the car.
c) We warned severelly, getting out of the car, even.
d) Be detained and sleep in the police department.

Police brutality in the USA is an urban myth here in Europe, and I would like to be sure about how plausible it is...

[MillsJROSS]

I don't like the idea of capping it off at 20 people. While I agree that past appearances to Mittens haven't been in huge droves, many of the people who formerly couldn't make it are in a better position in their lives to take a Mittens vacation. We need to find out how many people would be interested. How many are almost 100% sure they'd make it. How many people think they really want to go, but they might have to assess the cost or other factors. How many people are interested, don't think they'll be able to make it, but with a "you never know" attitude. Once we have that number then we assess what we can get. It might very well be the magic number 20, but I think we should do more than assume that it will be.

As far as vehicles. I can tote around four additional people in my car.

I don't care if we have one large house or several small ones. What I do want is to be isolated enough where we don't bother other people, or aren't bothered by other people. Close enough to some authentic Florida touristy things like St. Augustine. There are tons of really great gardens and parks in Florida. Obviously, we need a beer fountain, but that almost goes without saying.

I loved the randomness of our vacationing in France, but part of that was due to no one really living near the area. In this case we have more intimate knowledge of our surrounding area, so I expect some sort of planning to be done. I'll contact a great friend in Miami, who may know some really good vacations spots, and see if they know anything. I also had a friend who had access to a mansion in Naples, but Naples is very much in the middle of nowhere, and while the house is very nice, I think it would only fit about 15 of us (and I haven't been actively a friend with them in some time).

This website might help in the search, Grundi.

homaway

-MillsJROSS

[Pumaman]

Did I say I preffer this "alcohol mittens" than the "intimate ones"? NO. Did I say less brainy discussions is good? NO. I was just mentioning that making Mittens in Miami (or Florida) opens the possibility to that "party attitudes". 

Ok, can we please not have a repeat of this discussion, instead I'd like to state the following:

1. being in Miami does not automatically mean it'll be Boozeittens
2. nobody has to take part in anything they don't want to
3. some people like boozy party nights more than others. nobody is right and nobody is wrong, it is just a difference of opinion.

So please can we leave it there for this thread!!

Theme parks (Disney ones) are expensive and will be super crowded mid-summer, so I would hold off on those unless you're really really desperate to see Mickey Mouse.

Bearing in mind that it takes 4 hours to get to Orlando, maybe visiting Disneyland wouldn't be the best idea for Mittens.

However, I would probably be interested in arriving a few days early / staying a few days late in order to visit the Orlando theme parks, since I've never been before and don't know if I ever will again. So if anyone else is interested in doing that we could potentially have an optional extension to Mittens for doing so.

[Ubel]

I'll quite certainly be there. I have a good load of money on me right now, so as long as the accommodation isn't ludicrously expensive I can make it.

To me it doesn't really matter that much where we'll stay either, so I'll leave that discussion for those who care.

[Esseb]

However, I would probably be interested in arriving a few days early / staying a few days late in order to visit the Orlando theme parks, since I've never been before and don't know if I ever will again. So if anyone else is interested in doing that we could potentially have an optional extension to Mittens for doing so.

Sign me up. I was considering this as well, but didn't really want to do that on my own.

[Ubel]

However, I would probably be interested in arriving a few days early / staying a few days late in order to visit the Orlando theme parks, since I've never been before and don't know if I ever will again. So if anyone else is interested in doing that we could potentially have an optional extension to Mittens for doing so.

Sign me up. I was considering this as well, but didn't really want to do that on my own.

Actually that sounds like fun. It's a bit early to say but I might join you guys.