New game organisation suggestions

[DeviantGent]

So, before the forums went down, there was a very interesting discussion going on about how the games were to be re-organised. This sprung up from a recurring part of the feedback which said that as it stands right now, there was no way of telling the better games from the slightly more dubious in quality, and in particular which ones were relevant to the ongoing story and which were standalone.

So, I present the following suggestions, drawn up in emails between Renegade Implementor and myself, with explainations for the sections crossposted from the other RON topics. Please bear in mind that nothing is set in stone right now, these are but suggestions. Take a look and see what you think.

Canon Games
Games that are crucial in understanding both the RoN universe and the characters that inhabit it. The games in this section are considered canonical and part of the RoN universe timeline. The events in these games are set in stone. Anyone new to RoN and wants to know the timeline and crucial events should go to this section.

Lunchtime Of The Damned
Vengeance of the Chicken
I Spy
Return of Die Vie Ess
The Repossessor
The First Stitch
The Postman Only Dies Once
The Lost Treasure of RON
Dead Man's Political Party
Hooky McPegleg, Pirate Postman
The Underworld
The Phantom Inheritance
I Spy 2
The Unraveling
Paranormal Investigation
Rend
Cabbages and Kings
Kittens and Cacti
Apocalypse Meow (Chapter One)
Defender of RON
Purity of the Surf
The Spoons
III Spy
Rock - A True Story


Stand-alone Games
Games that make use of established characters and events in self-contained stories. While these games do not significantly impact ongoing story or character arcs, they are still considered to have happened and can be referred to in other canon or stand-alone games.

Fowl Play
The Soviet Union Strikes Back
Blastoff!
Nightwatch
Monty on the Norm
Your Bum is Talking
The Punk Allen Trilogy
Strange Days
The Sorceror's Appraisal
The Chef
A Better Mouse Trap
Shadows of RON
MI5 Bob
Disappearance Time
The Petshop Incident
Major Bummer Dude: Lassi Quest RON
Stuck at Home
Simon's Journey
The Crazed Chicken
Cold Storage
Sixteen
Witch!
The Murder of Adrian Elkwood
Root of all Evil


Experimental/Non Canon games
Games in this section are not considered to exist in the RoN universe at all. Events and characters in this section should generally not be referred to in canon or (to a lesser extent) stand-along games. As games in this section are isolated from an official canon, character death is permitted.

Nihilism
Davy Jones C'est Mort
The Universal Equalizer
Davy Jones is Back
Invasion of the Space Aliens...
Commander Keen Enters RON
The Lost Dollar
Before the Legacy
Surreality
That Crazy World
I'm Only Sleeping
RON 13:13 Retaliation
Ron 13:13^2 The Thickening
Yet Another Death of Davy Jones Scenario
Au Naturel
Edge of Reality


Non-Adventure Games
A section for games that are non-adventure: quiz, rpg, action, platform, strategy, etc.

Ron Quiz Part 1
ROTN Quiz game 2
Men of War
Davy Jones's Spellbook
Easter in RON
Pre-RON MI5 Bob
Michael Gower's Zombie Hill


Trailers/Demos
A section for game trailers, game demos, and technical demos

Edge of Reality (demo)
Scoop Da Poop � move to demos � not a game per se, it functions more like a demo
Time Out
Everything that Begins with an M
Drunk Punk Allen Episode 1


My personal take on this layout is that in the case of stand-alone or non-canon games, there can be some change over time. For example, the one thing that really stops Au Naturel being a Canon game is the small fact that Davy Jones is a character in it during a time he was meant to be dead. If this were altered, then it could become a canon game. Essentially, this is a small start with helping people know which events in the series so far warrent referencing or can be happily ignored.

Thoughts?

[Ghost]

The list alone looks very intimidating to a newcomer. I know about RON and have played the odd game, but never got really too involved with it- mostly due to the sheer size of said list of games. If I were a newcomer to AGS too that would mean a double concern: Can I master the engine, and can I get my head around a canon.

I understand the need for canon and have now started to hunt down and download the games mentioned, just for the fun of it, but it still looks a lot.

So, with a canon of 24 games, I think you are setting a pretty solid base, but you also require that these 24 games are known- a lot of effort.

Just my five cents, but more importantly, congratulations on RON being "closer" to the AGS forums now, and on the overall activity. Even as a "casual observer" I know how important RON has been, and still is.

[DeviantGent]

Unfortunatly this is a problem with having so many games submitted over the years. Bear in mind that RON has been around since 2001, and in that time a pretty lengthy set of ongoing stories have developed. Having said that, this new system would mean that not playing the other odd 59 or so games would not be detrimental to doing a game that depended on knowing the current story.

Don't forget, the maker of a RON game doesn't have to do one centered around established characters or story if they choose. They can be completely standalone with original characters, such as the case with RI's 'Cold Storage'. Having clear distinctions in place - unlike previously, where new games were simply added onto the end and it really did give the impression of one long continuous story, something that WAS completly inpenetrable to casually dive into - would go some way to allieviate the intimidation that was once there. Not get rid of it entirely, but make a start of addressing it. Hopefully having wiki entries for these games - addressing significant events, effect on continuity, references to past games etc - will help reduce this intimidation further.

A possible suggestion - would a 'beginner's guide' page, maybe listing 4-5 of the most accessible games, help ease people in and be welcomed? I'm thinking maybe:

Lunchtime of the Damned - first game, sets the tone of the series.
The Repossessor - Carries on a number of themes from the first game.
Purity of the Surf - fairly standalone but features a number of secondary characters and forms a good 'overview' of their relation to each other.
The First Stitch - First in the Tapestry series.
Cabbages and Kings - First in the Night of the Kittens series.

These particular ones would let people easily branch off into the other canon ones, ie the other Tapestry or Kitten games.

[Ghost]

A possible suggestion - would a 'beginner's guide' page, maybe listing 4-5 of the most accessible games, help ease people in and be welcomed?

I think that'd be the way to go, yes. A small selection from the canon with a description *why* the game is canon. Once again I can only speak for myself, but I'd fell much better then- I'm not only being told that out of the larger canon, a few core games stand out, I'd also feel that the community is making an effort to ease me in.

Maybe a "starter pack" containing a selection of games, linked to a big friendly "Get XXX Here" button is possible?

[LimpingFish]

Perhaps someone could put together a "Previously in RON..."-type deal, highlighting the various aspects of the "canon" storyline. Maybe even an AGS-based, interactive one.

Narrated by the homeless weirdo...

[Leon]

Maybe even an AGS-based, interactive one.

That wouldn't be very useful. Then you need both, one as a written story, one as interactive version. If you only have a playable version, you might miss essentials and it's easier to read back in a written story than to have to play the interactive one again.

I'm playing them all at the moment so I should be up2date in a week or 2. Then I can put together the basic story of RoN.

[DeviantGent]

It starts as a pisstake, putting characters in completly implausable messed up situations that have nothing to do with the canon and takes the piss out of dramas/soaps:

(music - 'Escape', Craig Armstrong)

Max: No more games, Wolfgang! Where did you hide the bomb?
Wolfgang: The one place you would never think of looking.
Max: You dont mean...
*beep*
Wolfgang: Yes. The hat.
*Yahtzeebrand explodes*
Mika: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

Elandra: Davy... I'm pregnant... and Hooky's the father!

DVE: Soon, everyone will be eating Reese's Puff Cereal... and the WORLD WILL BE MINE!

Gower: Death... I never told you this before... but I can't hold it in any longer...
Death: I know sir. And it's nothing to be ashamed of.
Gower: No one must know my dark secret. NO ONE.
Death: Don't say that, Mr Mayor. Line dancing is a perfectly acceptable pastime.

Elandra: Davy... I'm pregnant... and Melt is the father!

Greyson: This town... the number 23... it all makes SENSE now.

Frank: DROP YOUR WEAPON!
Fred: No, YOU drop YOUR weapon!

Elandra: Davy... I'm pregnant... and the chicken is the father!
Chicken: S'up.
Davy: ... MOMMY?!?

Thakbor: Let me go, Mika! I must fight the demons.
Mika: No Thakbor. YOU are the demons.

*cuts to the Bum in they alley, talking to Mary*

Bum: And then Thakbor became a zombie. Any questions?
Mary: Mary only wanted to know if the strange man had any rum.
Bum: Ah. Right.


... in fact, screw it. How about this for the proposed Lunchtime of the Damned remake? Have this for the intro, then make the Bum tell a REAL story, which segues into the game?

[Ghost]

I think my brain just exploded... 

[Mr Flibble]

To inform and sever.

[DeviantGent]

You crack me up, little buddy.

Being serious for a moment, I believe Creed Malay started a recap thing in the Fiction section where Max Griff narrated the events of the first 5 or so games in first person to an unknown third party in Scids. If this could be continued and given more prominence, then this would do wonders for people wanting an overview of a game and its repercussions in the wider story. Unfortunatly due to the site's current downtime I can't link it, but I'm pretty sure the older members know of what I mean.

[Snarky]

A possible suggestion - would a 'beginner's guide' page, maybe listing 4-5 of the most accessible games, help ease people in and be welcomed? I'm thinking maybe:

Lunchtime of the Damned - first game, sets the tone of the series.
The Repossessor - Carries on a number of themes from the first game.
Purity of the Surf - fairly standalone but features a number of secondary characters and forms a good 'overview' of their relation to each other.
The First Stitch - First in the Tapestry series.
Cabbages and Kings - First in the Night of the Kittens series.

These particular ones would let people easily branch off into the other canon ones, ie the other Tapestry or Kitten games.

That's a great idea. RON is one of those things I've never felt up to tackling due to the amount of material (along with Love & Rockets and The History of Middle-Earth), but just having a shortlist like that makes me feel much more upbeat about the prospect.

[Stumblebum]

Howdy, I am a relative Noob to AGS and am very interested in practicing my nonexistent development skills with something like RoN.  And, as much of this discussion seems centered around making RoN more accessible to little green sprouts such as myself, it seems appropriate that I add my two cents.  I do like a lot of the canon based ideas being tossed around.  It also may be helpful to put together an illustrated "family tree" in order to display important characters, their relationships to one another, and their current state of being(alive/dead/zombie).  Each name could also be linked to their section in the wiki/written summary for further character information.  Also, in order to minimize these complications in the, new entries could be treated sort of like the short films on channel101.com.  Basically, RoN members could vote on each new game as to whether they deserve to influence the canon or not.  Anyway, those suggestions may be complicated or difficult to implement.  I'm just excited to start contributing to the RoN community as much as I can.  

[LGM]

I too would love to delve into the RON world, but I have always been scared away by the huge undertaking of making sense of the plot. So this idea is wholeheartedly supported by me and I hope RON-enthusiasts can band together and create a nice roadmap for new aspiring AGSers

[DeviantGent]

*sniff*

It's all so beautiful... all these people coming out of the woodwork... 'scuse me, I have something in my eye...

*runs out of the room, blubs, comes back in*

But yes, it's quite heartening seeing that a lot of what put people off can be solved with a few admin tweaks and some restructuring. It just goes to show that as the oldies have said, the idea behind RON itself is just as fantastic as it once was.

Now then. *cracks knuckles* Let's do this thing.

[Dualnames]

Good list there DC,  was always wondering what each RON game offered and whether you needed other RON games played before playing...

[Mr_Frisby]

To teh LGM,

Do not feer the ROtN. If it ist the discmbobulating bunny, hit yer self int the hed with getinv.(shovel) or use inv,(roncannnon) and it alth becometh clear.

p.s. I love your monkey.

also
There ist no theme. Just theme maker.

And we be rule benders.

Reinvent, reinvent, reinvent.

FrIBS

[DeviantGent]

I must not fear RON.
RON is the mind humper.
RON is the little crazy than brings total win.
I will face RON.
I will permit myself to play it all.
And when all of RON is played I will look upon my knowledge and twist it to new heights.
When the fear is gone, there will be nothing of 'canon' and 'standalone'.
Only awesome will remain.

[Renegade Implementor]

How about: I must not be afraid to ask for assistance in understanding the RoN universe and characters nor shall I let the shades of cowardice and complicated universal backstory prevent me from telling a kickarse story... even if it may contradict something.

Once the site is up and running, the info page will be undergoing an update.  The beginners guide that was posted above can/will most likely be included in the intro to RoN section.

[DeviantGent]

Sweet. I propose something in the style of the Sluggy Freelance New Viewer's Guide. Just with more of a synopsis as to what RON's premise is, along with the suggestions for starting games.

[Akatosh]

So now Davy Jones' death hasn't happened after all? All that retconning is getting confusing, I tells ya.

[DeviantGent]

I think the general consensus is that it HAS happened, and indeed there's a period of time when he clearly is dead. It's just that the exact circumstances of his death and resurrection are from now on being kept undefined.

[Akatosh]

So he has been dead for some point and isn't right now, but the causes of these effects are now non-canon?

Also, I realise this is pretty off-topic, but I think a Crisis On Infinite Rons would be spiffy, since what you're doing here is basically one huge continuity reboot. Anyone up for that? 

[DeviantGent]

Yup, pretty much. Mainly because there have been so many possible causes chucked around since the original 'cow buggery' scenario (head explody by God, vat of acid, hallucination by herbal tea), it's easier to jsut say 'he was dead, and now he's alive'. Which judging by the policy on the original RON site was one that was adopted.

I wouldn't say it was a canon-reboot, more of a case of distinctions between games following the original story, games that are standalone, and non-canon-can-do-anything-totally-messed-up-games. I'd say Crisis on Infinite RONS could fit nicely into that third catagory though.

[Eleri]

Perhaps someone could put together a "Previously in RON..."-

Bonus if you can get someone with a voice like the "Previously on LOST" guy

[woot52]

I like Lost... 

[Ultra Magnus]

I like Lost... 

I like turtles.

[Dualnames]

I like Lost... 

I like turtles.

I like lost turtles and small penguin puppets.

[DeviantGent]

[Radiant]

Out of curiosity - what events in Root Of All Evil are considered to contradict canon? Because I don't think it contains any major events, really. It definitely doesn't belong on the main "must play" list, but I'm surprised to learn it's on the list of controversies along with Davy Jones C'est Mort and the Commander Keen game

[DeviantGent]

Yeah, this surprised me too. RI has the whole story since he pointed it out when we were brainstorming the new system, but I think it's due to the location of some of the backgrounds, apparently they're in the wrong places in relation to each other. No fault of yours, it's just symptomatic of just how bloody difficult it is as it stands right now to research where everything goes if a large number of locations are used, particularly in the downtown area. The primer I'm working on will go some way to helping out with this. Speaking personally I would like for Root to be in the standalone catagory, since it's a pretty kosher game.

Don't worry, there's noting 'controversial' about Root, and that particular subsection shouldn't by any stretch be considered a 'sin bin'. Hell, the only thing stopping Au Naturel being on the Canon list is the fact that Davy is alive in a timeframe he should have been dead in, and we all remember the hooha around THAT particular game.

[Radiant]

I think it's due to the location of some of the backgrounds, apparently they're in the wrong places in relation to each other.

Hm, okay. I don't recall which particular map or other game that was based upon. Well, I'd be happy to change that if you want me to.

[DeviantGent]

This here map right here is the most up to date map of the town so far. I can also send you how much I've assembled of the primer so far if you want to see how all the backgrounds go together in pratice, if that will help.

[Radiant]

This here map right here is the most up to date map of the town so far.

Frankly I don't see any discrepancies between that map and Root. Perhaps you can enlighten me what exactly the issue is, otherwise I'm just shooting in the dark.

The only thing I can think of is that Root posits that the nameless law office on the map went bankrupt and the building is now being used for something else. Is that an issue? Or am I missing something?

[DeviantGent]

I've recently replayed Root, and (although I'm only second guessing RI here), I think the problem is using backgrounds from other locations in different places - for example, using Albert Waeks Second Hand Bookstore interior as the interior for the First Bank. In this case, would there be anything stopping you from actually using the bookstore (and Albert as opposed to the Thakbor's Mother sprite) as a location as opposed to the bank?

You'd have to ask RI for specific instances, but I think that's the issue here. There may also be other niggling continuity issues, I'll give it another playthrough tonight and make some notes. It's nothing particular major, and certainly nothing that a few tweaks and swaparound of backgrounds won't fix.

[Renegade Implementor]

The biggest sticking point has to do with the movie theater.  From the Baron's dialogue, it appears that the movie theater was misinterpreted as a stage theater and it's ticket kiosk as a simple push-button.  I realize that if there was any confusion, the town map on the site could have been clearer, something which has been done.

The following are some general feelings on the game:
I could live with the reused art, although it is somewhat of a missed opportunity to add some character depth to little/new characters - such as Hank or Vincent Dolby who both work at the Parkview restaurant.

The description of the alley between the Parkview restaurant & Pelboz flowers as "stinking of garbage" is one I find inaccurate as at least one business has it's front door in that corridor and the background of that area was spotless (apart from one alien time machine).  The "shops open onto a corridor between two buildings" is based upon a setup in my city and the corridor is quite clean I assure you, especially as one of the businesses is an restaurant.

I also don't see why the need was felt to remove a business, in this case the Randall Craig & Associates law firm, before anyone had the opportunity to make use of it when there are so many empty buildings/spots on the map to stick an arcade, such as the blue building next to the Parkview restaurant.

[Irishrichy]

Richy here, creator of Mi5 Bob and The Spoons.

Now that RON has a brand spanking new location, and hopefully some more exposure to other people in the AGS forums, hopefully we'll see a new generation of people adding games to RON. It's important that we make it as easy for people as possible to learn about the intricacies of the whole RON universe.

I think the idea of having canon and non canon games is a great idea. As is the idea of putting it to a vote, whether new games can become part of the canon or not.
It means creators have freedom to try something different, and people new to RON, have a starting point, to learn the long history, but also don't need to worry about ruining anything in the RON universe, as I can imagine it's a little indimidating for newcomers to have to follow so much history.

jetxl has already recorded walkthroughs of some of the Early games. I think it would be a great idea to have walkthroughs of all the canon games, so that people can get a feel for the RON universe without having to spend days playing each and every game.

I'm looking forward to seeing Project Recap, which sounds like it'll be great. If you have any questions about any of the characters(MI5 Bob, Richy, Claudia, Chris Furlong, Joe Linders, Nick Linders, Jackie Furlong) or places(Linders of RON, Richy Records), I added to the game, don't hesitate to send me a PM.

[DeviantGent]

Good to have ye back in the fold, Richy. I did enjoy your games, and I still hold out hope that The Spoons trilogy ye had planned will continue. Have you played Brent's 'Rock: A True Story'? They've been used to great effect there.

Project Recap (or 'Virtual Reality' as it's come to be known now) has a pretty good foundation laid now. Around 150 odd rooms have been put together, and there's now a sense that the town is a cohesive entity as opposed to a collection of disjointed rooms. When my exams are over I'm going to be stringing them all together, so hopefully anyone playing will have a pretty good idea where every location is and how it all fits together. When that's done, we can start adding characters and dialogue that explains them, the locations and key events. I think your contributions would be most excellent, I've always wanted to see The Spoons and your other locations/characters get some more use.

[Hudders]

jetxl has already recorded walkthroughs of some of the Early games. I think it would be a great idea to have walkthroughs of all the canon games, so that people can get a feel for the RON universe without having to spend days playing each and every game.

Of the canon games, I could only find video walkthroughs of Lunchtime of the Damned and Vengeance of the Chicken; I didn't need a video for I Spy since it has been remade and actually works properly on my machine. Return of Die Vie Ess doesn't work and I can't find a video walkthrough of it, but after that I have had great success in actually getting them to play! I'm on Kittens and Cacti at the moment.

One thing I've noticed in playing through the ones you labelled as "canon" is that there might be one or two in the wrong order. I say this because I noticed Michael Gower is referred to as "the mayor" in Paranormal Investigation and I Spy 2 but he seems only to become mayor in Hooky McPegleg, Pirate Postman.

Overall I'm enjoying the series, with The Repossessor being my current favourite. 

[DeviantGent]

Glad you're having fun with it all, Hudders. Yeah, take that order they're referred with a pinch of salt - I added them in the order they were originally posted, not chronologically. There IS a rough timeline that RI threw together, but I can't remember if it's updated or not. I know it needs trimming to filter out the standalone/non-canon games, but it might be of use.

Ah, here we go. See, I have my uses. 

[jetxl]

Is this list in chronological order?

01 Lunchtime Of The Damned
02 Vengeance of the Chicken
03 I Spy
04 Return of Die Vie Ess
05 The Repossessor
06 The Postman Only Dies Once
07 The Lost Treasure of RON
08 Paranormal Investigation
09 I Spy 2
10 Hooky McPegleg, Pirate Postman
11 Cabbages and Kings
12 Kittens and Cacti
13 The First Stitch
14 The Underworld
15 Defender of RON
16 Purity of the Surf
17 Apocalypse Meow (Chapter One)
18 The Phantom Inheritance
19 The Unraveling
20 The Spoons
21 Dead Man's Political Party
22 Rend
23 III Spy
24 Rock - A True Story

[Hudders]

I would say that Hooky McPegleg should be #8.

Also, would it not be sensible to advocate playing Apocalypse Meow directly after Kittens and Cacti? I'm only assuming that it follows directly on from events in the first two parts of the trilogy since it ends on a cliffhanger, (although I'm yet to play it).

[DeviantGent]

Yes. Yes I would recommend this.

[Renegade Implementor]

I've checked the above order against the timeline that I did.  This is how things go:

01 Lunchtime Of The Damned
02 Vengeance of the Chicken
03 I Spy
04 Return of Die Vie Ess
05 The Repossessor
06 The First Stitch
07 The Postman Only Dies Once
08 The Lost Treasure of RON
09 Dead Man's Political Party
10 Hooky McPegleg, Pirate Postman
11 The Underworld
12 The Phantom Inheritance
13 I Spy 2
14 The Unraveling
15 Paranormal Investigation
16 Rend
17 Cabbages and Kings
18 Kittens and Cacti
19 Apocalypse Meow (Chapter One)
20 Defender of RON
21 Purity of the Surf
22 The Spoons
23 III Spy
24 Rock - A True Story

Just a note: (10) HM,PP occurs on the final day of (09) DMPP, so there's a bit of overlap in terms of the timeframe.

[DeviantGent]

Nicely done RI, I've updated the first post to put the canon games in the above order.

[Hudders]

I'd just like to point out that playing the games chronologically, (as they were created), allows you to witness the changes in the town - how new locations are shoehorned inbetween buildings that were previously right next to eachother for instance. It's as if they've always been there and you just hadn't noticed them until they were important.

A totally unexpected joy. 

[Irishrichy]

The post office seems to appear and disappear between games, alright. Same with Dominatrix Pizza. Hopefully there'll be a little consistency in the future, cause it must be very confusing to newcomers.

[DeviantGent]

I'd just like to point out that playing the games chronologically, (as they were created), allows you to witness the changes in the town - how new locations are shoehorned inbetween buildings that were previously right next to eachother for instance. It's as if they've always been there and you just hadn't noticed them until they were important.

A totally unexpected joy. 

That's something I always liked about playing them as they were created - you got a true feeling of 'building on top of what was already there'. It's very satisfying seeing how something can evolve as more and more people chip in with their ideas. I think it sums up the essence of the entire project.

[Radiant]

Well, it took me a while to get around to this, but here we go.

The biggest sticking point has to do with the movie theater.

Fixed. Although I have no idea what "a simple push-button" is

it is somewhat of a missed opportunity to add some character depth to little/new characters

That's a good point, and I'll keep that in mind for future games. When writing Root, I was simply not familiar enough with little and new characters to include those.

The description of the alley between the Parkview restaurant & Pelboz flowers as "stinking of garbage" is one I find inaccurate

Also fixed.

http://crystalshard.net/zip/ROOT.ZIP - please let me know if this is more acceptable.

[Renegade Implementor]

The classifications have been undergone the following modifications:

DasTobias/Orange's games: Intergalactic Life, Forest on the Norm, Toxically Earth, Intergalactic Life 2.0, Mika's Surreal Dream, It's Just a RON-Game, Easter in RON, Mika's Surreal Dream 2: The Dream Comes True have been removed.

Radiant's Root of all Evil has been moved to the Stand-alone section.

[jetxl]

And where would ROAE go on the timeline?

[DeviantGent]

I don't think standalone games have to specifically fit ANYWHERE on the timeline.

[jetxl]

Ah. my bad. Sorry.

[DeviantGent]

No worries, have a muffin.

Speaking in terms of site design, what would be the best way to implement these catagories? We could use the subheadings system that exists now in regard to date released, timeline, recently added etc, but adding these subcatagories on top of the ones there would result in something of a disorganised heading orgy. Would it help if in the meantime, this thread was possibly stickied?

[Radiant]

And where would ROAE go on the timeline?

Why, right at Mika's birthday, of course  :

[DeviantGent]

And where would ROAE go on the timeline?

Why, right at Mika's birthday, of course  :

*snerk*. Well, we've got an unfilled void of 2004-2009 to choose from if a specific place on the timeline is desired.

[Radiant]

*snerk*. Well, we've got an unfilled void of 2004-2009 to choose from if a specific place on the timeline is desired.

No, it's not the game intentionally doesn't even specify what age she is.

[Kitty Trouble]

So..the stand-alone games are or aren't considered canon? As in, can we reference things that happen there in our games?

[Renegade Implementor]

Hi chaosgodkarl,

Generally speaking, even though the stand-alone games aren't rubber-stamped with "CANON", the events in the S-A games are considered to have happened.  If you need to make a reference to one of the games in that section, go ahead.

[DeviantGent]

HELLO CANON MY OLD FRIEND...

So now we've got ourselves the making of a wiki, I sense the perfect chance to implement these labels we decided upon so long ago. I'll be going through the entries and catagorising them as "Canon", "Stand-Alone", "Non-Canon" etc, and adding the appropriate explanation to their respective pages.

At some point we're going to need to decide where the most recently released games fall into. Time to rev up the discussion and hash this out amongst us all.

[Retro Wolf]

I was a bit apprehensive about discussing this about my Reality Check Trilogy, but then I read this about the "stand alone" games on the Wikia:

Games that make use of established characters and events in self-contained stories. While these games do not significantly impact characters or ongoing stories, they are still considered to have happened and can be referred to in other canon or stand-alone games.

While the Reality Check Trilogy develops the new character Paul Bednaux, I wouldn't say it heavily influences the lives of other characters (as the adventures of Paul were largely to do with preventing catastrophe, rather than catastrophe occurring). The games would not necessarily be required plays, though I'd think it extremely cool (to me personally) if they ever get referenced in future RotN projects.

I mistook the "Stand alone" category as "throwaway games". While I'd consider it an honour to be placed in the canon category, I will not be offended if this is not the case.

[DeviantGent]

Bear in mind that was something I added last night on the fly because there isnt an explanation on the first post of this thread. As a definition of the catagory it's still very much open to discussion at this point.