English 101 with Trihan sometimes!

Started by Trihan, Sun 28/06/2009 09:12:40

Previous topic - Next topic

Anian

Quote from: TerranRich on Mon 29/06/2009 05:34:24
1.

Present Perfects are also used in narrative. Usually narratives (stories) are set in the present tense:

It was a dark and stormy night. John killed a man.

But if you're referring to events in the narrative's past, you use present perfect tenses, like so:

But then John remembered back to last Tuesday. There had been a knock at the door.

So John is remembering the past, and we are told that, at the time, there was a knock on the door.

John had answered the door, only to see the man. He was there to paint the bathroom.

Now that we've already established the time frame of "narrative's past", we can slip back into regular past tense.
I think you got confused here a bit.
First sentence is past tense not present and doesn't actually flow so well, you might want to go with: "It was a dark and stormy night, when John killed a man", otherwise I think it sounds strange.
Second sentence ("had been") is past perfect and not present perfect - present perfect is with a present tense of verb "have", ergo the name of the tense.
In the third sentence there should be "a man", not "the man," if only because we don't know who this man is, only that there's a general human male at the door. More importantly, since you used present tense "see", I think you might as well use regular past tense "answered".

Just saying.
I don't want the world, I just want your half

TerranRich

1. I guess it's just personal preference. It was just a crude example to illustrate a point anyway.

2. You're absolutely right. I meant "past prefect".

3. It's the same man that John killed in the first sentence. Again, has nothing to do with the point I was trying to illustrate.

Plus, it was all written very late at night. :P
Status: Trying to come up with some ideas...

InCreator

#42
I'm always misusing "ä" [æ] when speaking english. I cannot understand why there isn't a letter for this vocal.
It's everywhere!

It's first sound human being makes after being born. Babies don't cry "aeaeaeae" or "aaaaa"! It's "äää"

An apple. (äpl)
Language. (längvich)

It's there! And yet, I'm never sure if it really is.

Dance. I say "dääns". British say "daans". I'm wrong. But it feels so natural there. And I think I've heard it with my version million times in hollywood movies.

Also, lack of "ö" in whole language feels like absurd. "World". I haven't heard it pronounced like "worm".
Say those words! Hear the difference between 2 "o"-s? Or is there none?
So there's "ö" in language. But it's SO rare! In estonian, shortest word is "öö" (night). A whole word dedicated to and made of 2 same vocals!

But english... none.
Helluva strange language. I will never get over misusing those two - for me - so natural letters.

Another sick thing is using in and on correctly. I usually make (or might make) mistakes. I got sick on december or in December? My language-sense points to latter. But I'm never sure really, since I rely on sense only (as with all languages I know) and never memorize any actual grammar rules.

ALSO thing I never made clear for myself, even though I got A's on tests:

Is an animal he, she or it? If I want to speak about a cat, do I have to lift (her/his/its) tail first to decide on gender?  :D

Anyway, I got 90% of my initial english skills from AGI text-parser games  :P
I would have never learnt the language to the level I know right now without those.

Yet still, I watch every english-spoken movie with subtitles. Reading clear text is one thing, hearing bloody hero mutter with accent and over explosions... and trying to understand what he just said - is way another...

Oliwerko

Animals are "it", I believe. In slovak, cat is a female, while dog is a male, yet in english, I believe they are both "it" (male, female, how do you really call "it"?).

It's funny what you say about ä and similar vocals. I pronounce world and worm almost the same, not sure if that's correct.
With dance, cat and weekdays (sandi/sundey), it's all about the british/american english, there is no "correct" way of saying it.

It's similar with apple and language. The pronounciation rules in english are benevolent. I personally tend to pronounce apple and language with ae's more like e's.

The thing you mention with "in" or "on" December, it's purely a rule. I got used to it by using it  :P
It's AT five o'clock, IN December, ON Monday. There are not many of these anyway, only a few you have to get used to.

nihilyst

Quote from: Mr Matti on Mon 29/06/2009 01:53:41
Nihylist, isn't it the very same in german? At least 1-3, I'm not quite sure about 4. I've always been very good in grammar though I don't know anything about grammatical theory.

Not really, though it differs from region to region. 1 and 2 are nearly the same as in English, if not the exact same thing. 3 and 4 are progressive forms, that we don't have in German; we have to find a way around it, 3 with a "gerade", but I don't know, if you can express 4 in German without lossing some of its meaning.

Mr Flibble

Quote from: InCreator on Mon 29/06/2009 18:58:49


ALSO thing I never made clear for myself, even though I got A's on tests:

Is an animal he, she or it? If I want to speak about a cat, do I have to lift (her/his/its) tail first to decide on gender?  :D


When talking about their pets, people usually use "he" or "she" as appropriate. I'd use "it" if I didn't know the gender or I wanted to express a lack of personal attachment (since using gender pronouns is, to an extent, anthropomorphism).
Ah! There is no emoticon for what I'm feeling!

Stupot


Trihan

Holy crap, my topic exploded and I didn't even get to answer any questions!

I thought I'd leave it a couple of days because usually when I make a topic like this there isn't much interest, but DAMN!

I'm excited about other questions people might have now! Keep them coming! Or ask for my opinion on any of the questions presented thus far. :)

Vince Twelve

Final ruling on mine from the great and powerful Trihan?

Tijne

English is my first language, but I still don't know when it's proper to use "i.e.," vs. "e.g.,"
Dx.

cat

Quote from: Tijne on Tue 30/06/2009 11:39:23
English is my first language, but I still don't know when it's proper to use "i.e.," vs. "e.g.,"
Dx.


Because that's Latin, not English. "i.e." is short for "id est" which means "that is" and "e.g." is "exempli gratia" which means "for example"

See also on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E.g.#exempli_gratia

Matti

Quote from: Tijne on Tue 30/06/2009 11:39:23
English is my first language, but I still don't know when it's proper to use "i.e.," vs. "e.g.,"
Dx.

Ha, that was one of the questions I always wanted to ask and always forgot to ask. Thanks!

Quote from: cat on Tue 30/06/2009 11:57:31
Because that's Latin, not English. "i.e." is short for "id est" which means "that is" and "e.g." is "exempli gratia" which means "for example"

Hm, I always thought it was english and stood for "example given", but in a sense that's what it means  ;).

I had similar problems with a.m. and p.m., since they sounded like "after mid day" and "past mid day" which obviously wouldn't make any sense but wiki told me that these are latin abbreviations too.

Snarky

Quote from: anian on Mon 29/06/2009 14:11:23
First sentence is past tense not present and doesn't actually flow so well, you might want to go with: "It was a dark and stormy night, when John killed a man", otherwise I think it sounds strange.

Since we were talking about commas, that sentence shouldn't have one: "It was a dark and stormy night when John killed a man." It's not a great sentence anyway; should preferably be rewritten:

"It was on a dark and stormy night that John killed a man."
"The night John killed a man was dark and stormy."
"John killed a man on a dark and stormy night."

TerranRich

I agree with using "he" and "she" if you know the gender of the animal and have some level of affection for it. Otherwise, it's just "it".

As for i.e. and e.g., here are examples of their usage:

I have a cold (i.e., my nose is running and I'm congested).
I like all kinds of sweets (e.g., pie, cake, pudding).
Status: Trying to come up with some ideas...

zabnat

"My car is more expensive than yours." vs "My car is more expensive then yours."
This is something that confuses me. Is the one with "then" considered to be right? I see examples of it all over and even some authors use it in their books.
- "My car is more expensive then yours."
- "When mine?"

Quote from: Mr Matti on Tue 30/06/2009 14:21:04
I had similar problems with a.m. and p.m., since they sounded like "after mid day" and "past mid day" which obviously wouldn't make any sense but wiki told me that these are latin abbreviations too.
Heh, I never had problems with these because my first language (Finnish) comes to a rescue. For a.m. it's "aamu"=morning and for p.m. it's "päivä"=day.  ;D

Stupot

@ Zabnat... do not use 'then' in this context.  It's wrong. The fact that a lot of people use it on the internet is probably an indication of how badly they did/will do at school.

Oliwerko

As far as then and than goes, I remember only two rules:

"My cock is bigger than yours."
"I will rape your wife, then your daughter."

TerranRich

THAN = comparison (I am smarter than you)
THEN = sequential order (I will laugh, then I will cry)
Status: Trying to come up with some ideas...

NsMn

I'm still wondering what the short expression for "at your place" (or something) is. Maybe "At yours"?

DoorKnobHandle

Yep. "Party at your place tonight?" could be contracted to "Party at yours tonight?".

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk