Topic: SOPA and PIPA

[The Suitor]

This has just been brought to my attention while trying to access wikipedia. It seems like a lot of websites are protesting SOPA and PIPA. Personally, I think this blackout thing is a pretty awesome idea.

You gotta love the U.S. Government  :

[Stupot+]

I'm staging my own little protest against SOPA where I refuse to post anything in General Discussion that is interesting, helpful or funny.  Actually, I've been protesting against SOPA for 5 years...

[monkey_05_06]

Stupot, you fool! That's precisely what SOPA is all about! By not posting anything interesting, helpful, or funny, you are supporting SOPA.

SOPA is dangerous because it's worded so vaguely. Anyone who understands the first thing about the way US legislation works would see that as a major red flag. Particularly it's dangerous to open-source projects because if the project were deemed to be "supporting" piracy/copyright infringement/etc. in any way (even in such a way that "supporting" just means "not explicitly preventing"), the entire project could be officially deemed illegal.

Anyway, it's good to see that the Internet is standing up for itself.

[ddq]

Fuck SOPA and fuck PIPA.

[WHAM]

Fuck SOPA and fuck PIPA.

Remember to use a condom!

But in all seriousness: the SOPA and PIPA seem to me much like the good old Patriot Act. A huge fuss, massive waste of resources and time, and no real impact, other than some minor negative ones. There is much potential for misuse, but I don't see this as an any more massive threat than previous legislations.

What we need is a global legislative that can and MUST be reinforced by each country in the world, in which countries MUST take action to stop any and all illegal file traffic withing their borders by persecuting the servers that connect users of P2P and torrent networks to one another in networks that transfer illegal material. I believe this would lead first into a situation where all P2P networks would be brought down one by one due to illegal traffic, driver underground and hunted down through infiltration and monitoring. This will bring down internet traffic in general too, which is a good thing for connection speeds. Afterwards, new P2P networks could rise; ones that have strict policies about trafficing illegal files (copyrighted material etc) and means of reporting users that break terms of service.

In WHAM-land, anyone caught downloading or sharing illegal or copyrighted material would be banned from having a high-speed internet connection for a year at a time, their connection speed capped at 512 kb / second or lower. Repeat offenders would get temporarily banned from the internet altogether, effectively excommunicating such individuals from most social circles and media outlets, as well as receiving serious monetary fines (the proceedings of which would be used to fund more effective monitoring of network traffic and reinforcing the LAW).

And if all else fails, we shoot the perpetrators on the streets for being assholes and not taking a hint.

[Noctambulo]

But in all seriousness: the SOPA and PIPA seem to me much like the good old Patriot Act. A huge fuss, massive waste of resources and time, and no real impact, other than some minor negative ones.

Right...."no real impact, other than some minor negative ones"... Invasion of Irak and Afghanistan (where are the WMD's, by the way?), illegal detentions, Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib... What do you consider a "real impact", the Holocaust??

...Hmmm, I get it... No US citizens (except soldiers, but they're expendable), so it's ok... Right?

[WHAM]

But in all seriousness: the SOPA and PIPA seem to me much like the good old Patriot Act. A huge fuss, massive waste of resources and time, and no real impact, other than some minor negative ones.

Right...."no real impact, other than some minor negative ones"... Invasion of Irak and Afghanistan (where are the WMD's, by the way?), illegal detentions, Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib... What do you consider a "real impact", the Holocaust??

...Hmmm, I get it... No US citizens (except soldiers, but they're expendable), so it's ok... Right?

Uhhhh... Do you know what the Patriot Act is? The Patriot Act was created as a set of rules and regulations that act in the US, allowing the police and FBI to more easily aquire information on citizens suspected of connection to terrorist organizations, and is not directly involved with invading Irak or Afganistan. Calm down, man!

[Noctambulo]

Uhhhh... Do you know what the Patriot Act is? The Patriot Act was created as a set of rules and regulations that act in the US, allowing the police and FBI to more easily aquire information on citizens suspected of connection to terrorist organizations, and is not directly involved with invading Irak or Afganistan. Calm down, man!

Yes, I know what the Patriot Act is: Just a step into the "war on terror". Basically, It's "Mein Kampf" to Holocaust all over again. The main difference is that the people now have things like, say, internet.

And maybe it's easy to you be calm about the loss of freedom because it is a great bussines for some people, but I'm not like that... Or (I want to believe this) you just don't know what the Patriot Act REALLY implies.

[WHAM]

Uhhhh... Do you know what the Patriot Act is? The Patriot Act was created as a set of rules and regulations that act in the US, allowing the police and FBI to more easily aquire information on citizens suspected of connection to terrorist organizations, and is not directly involved with invading Irak or Afganistan. Calm down, man!

Yes, I know what the Patriot Act is: Just a step into the "war on terror". Basically, It's "Mein Kampf" to Holocaust all over again. The main difference is that the people now have things like, say, internet.

And maybe it's easy to you be calm about the loss of freedom because it is a great bussines for some people, but I'm not like that... Or (I want to believe this) you just don't know what the Patriot Act REALLY implies.

I find it quite hard to believe you truly understand the patriot act. You are basically comparing the written works of a deranged, although ingenius, German / Austrian military and political leader to a law passed in the United States. I think the difference in both scope and purpose here is quite noticeable.

All I know of the Patriot act is what Wikipedia tells me. It has a very broad and well analyzed view on the matter and I can understand how some people, especially people who have something to hide, would see the Patriot Act as a negative thing. However, it is a step towards more nationwide security in the US. Here in Finland a slightly similiar thing was passed into law a year or two ago, although on a smaller scale (only regards electronic surveillance of e-mail and such at workplaces).

[Anian]

But WHAM, even your rendition would have terrible missuse and a lot of gray and illegal areas that actually contribute to a certain product, not to mention stuff that is maybe unavailable by no other means than stuff like torrenting etc.
Examples
- loads of musicians might get their music pirated, but lots of those people actually later pay concert tickets that have a higher price than an album, not to mention buying the music legally later,
- watching stuff that you can't have access to in other ways, such as documentaries (which I might catch on one of the Viasat or Discovery channels but it's hard),
- stuff that's limited to USA, for example hulu videos but also distribution limited productions,
- then there's loads of stuff that perhaps happens live but you can't get it any other way, can I for example buy all episodes of SNL or similar, how about streams of concert that again might be limited to a coutnry, how about tirbute videos (which actually get a lot of people pumped for a games, movies, music etc. all that would potentially be gone, infact in your case it would be
- I heard of a show that is on in USA, I can't watch it unless I - buy it of let say amazon, where I have to spend lots of money for the whole season a year later or about a year or more later to watch it on our television networks, of which some usually don't show the whole season (they sometimes interrupt it for no reason). And then I get it legally and watch the commercials.
- how about music that's on say a record and I don't have a record player?
- how about tutorial videos for a software, that helps the software developer directly by making their product acccesible and easier to learn

This is not about making money, it's about making even more money (deserving or not).

Btw 512 is not low, up until a year ago that was the speed limit on my net connection.

[Khris]

WHAM:
There's this guy that died recently who left a big power vacuum that's not nearly filled by his son. Maybe you could apply there?

On topic:
From what I've read, SOPA and PIPA will
-make venture capitalists refrain from investing in internet startups
-force any site that features user-generated content to police their own site, which forces huge liability costs onto countless Internet companies
-decimate the open source community
-outlaw the use of programs that allow democratic movements in oppressive countries to circumvent internet blockades
-allow ISPs to block sites on a hunch because the site is competition to their own business
-punish millions of innocent users who have never done anything illegal online

On the other hand, they won't do what they're supposed to do, so there isn't even an upside.

[Radiant]

What I find hilarious is that the U.S. Government is funding projects to circumvent internet censorship in countries like China, while these bills propose creating the same kind of censorship.

Spread the word. More people need to be aware of this continual struggle by western governments against freedom of speech.

[WHAM]

@ Anian:

I understand that there are exeptions, but let me respond to at least one of your examples: Music.
I believe this should be up to the musicians themselves to decide. There are bands who publish their own music and release much of their material FOR FREE (Machinae Supremacy, for example) and are ok with their material being distributed. Free distribution is part of their business plan and chosen method and they have confidence that ticket and record sales will hold up (and they have) despite the free distribution.

However, some labels and artists do not WANT to use this method and I believe they should have the right to decide what is legal and what is not when it comes to material THEY PRODUCE. It's their livelihood and they should have that chouse. Piracy takes away the choise. This also applies on documentaries, movies, TV shows and area restricted material: It's the choise of the publisher and the choise should remain available.

@Khris:

I understand that people worry about SOPA and admit that yes, its wording should be changed to a more uniform and clear shape before being passed into law, so that misuse is not as easy (hell, it should not be possible at all!) but then again: what we have seen in these SOPA protests is people reacting to a perceived threar, even though there is no proof to show that the response is justified. To me the SOPA response seems like people crying out "all guns should be banned because they can harm people", while ignoring any positive effects that might also be available (in case of guns: "You come into my house through the window in the middle of the night, I want to be able to defend myself until the police arrive!")

[Scavenger]

In WHAM-land, anyone caught downloading or sharing illegal or copyrighted material would be banned from having a high-speed internet connection for a year at a time, their connection speed capped at 512 kb / second or lower. Repeat offenders would get temporarily banned from the internet altogether, effectively excommunicating such individuals from most social circles and media outlets, as well as receiving serious monetary fines (the proceedings of which would be used to fund more effective monitoring of network traffic and reinforcing the LAW).

And if all else fails, we shoot the perpetrators on the streets for being assholes and not taking a hint.

shoot the perpetrators on the streets

And so, on that day, fifty years ago, fire was stolen from the hands of the people and given back to the gods. The flow of information stopped, for the common man was afraid anything that they shared with another might be considered contraband and shot. People no longer sung in the streets or referenced things that they liked, as copyright hung over their heads like the Sword of Damocles. Any performance could snap the string, ending their existance, and sending the message the corporations always wanted - that ideas were theirs, and all who expressed them had the wrath of the gods brought down upon them.

In an increasingly connected world, we were isolated. Unable to publically speak as all ideas were copyright. We thought that this would protect us, emancipate us but all it did was imprison us in a nightmare of vague claims to ownership by indominable monsters.

We were reduced to passive consumers, no longer could we use the tools we were given to create new things, but instead paid for the privilige of watching the gods dance in front of them. Anything could be taken from men, the gods could create scarcity, and thus charge whatever price they desired for the gifts they could so easily take away. But the price for this had already been paid.

Chained to the highest skyscraper, his liver torn out by eagles every day, broadcast globally, was the image of the original thief, a symbol of the new age, the rage of the gods against man, cravenly looking on with awe and terror:

[Danvzare]

To me the SOPA response seems like people crying out "all guns should be banned because they can harm people", while ignoring any positive effects that might also be available (in case of guns: "You come into my house through the window in the middle of the night, I want to be able to defend myself until the police arrive!")

All I've got to say to this is that here in England guns ARE banned because they can harm people and we've only had one attempted assassination on our prime-minister (the English version of a president) which failed unfortunately. You almost never hear anything thing to do with shooting or gangs riding down the street shooting, like you hear in America all the time. So you're telling me the ability to be able to buy guns from your local supermarket is a good thing. I must admit being able to defend your home from thieves would be nice (something which you're not allowed to do for some reason in England) but if you can buy guns, so can the thieves and that's your problem, right there.

As for SOPA and PIPA, I hope they don't pass for numerous reasons.

[WHAM]

So you're telling me the ability to be able to buy guns from your local supermarket is a good thing. I must admit being able to defend your home from thieves would be nice (something which you're not allowed to do for some reason in England) but if you can buy guns, so can the thieves and that's your problem, right there.

England is a special case primarily due to it being an island, which makes monitoring incoming packages easier and thus it is harder to get illegal firearms into the country as a whole. But here in continental europe, do you really think making guns ILLEGAL will keep criminals who make their living by BREAKING THE LAW from getting guns? 

[Radiant]

http://sopastrike.com/

Black out your websites today. Spread the word!

[Calin Leafshade]

Re: The Patriot Act not having any big impacts.

Tell that to the people detained indefinitely with no charge for liteally *years*.. Although I guess WHAM would be fine with that if they threatened 'the regime'

[Wyz]

In my opinion Any form of censor is bad for humanity, let alone allowing greedy corporations to take away the freedom to live and express of any civilian. This thing needs to go away. Patriot act? Same deal.

[Shane 'ProgZmax' Stevens]

It has a very broad and well analyzed view on the matter and I can understand how some people, especially people who have something to hide, would see the Patriot Act as a negative thing. However, it is a step towards more nationwide security in the US.

No.  Just no.  Coupled with the National Defense Authorization Act, America is now designated a 'battlefield' and American citizens may now officially (NB: Obama seized the power to assassinate American citizens previously with an Executive Order which he used to kill Anwar Al-Awlaki and his teenage son) be arrested and indefinitely detained outside of American soil on the mere accusation of terrorist involvement without a writ of habeas corpus or a trial.  This completely defies the 6th and 12th Amendments of the Constitution.