Summerbatch - v2 consideration

[SSH]

You should get Benedict Summerbatch to do the voice over for your adverts (in the style of Sherlock Holmes)

[miguel]

Hi guys,

as a follower of AGS life for the last 10 years of my life, a gamer and a poor talented game-maker, I am inclined to say some words.

Although the idea of earning money with games is reasonable and makes all the sense in the world, I am afraid that things are going just a little too fast in the community. CJ is not around any-more, future development of the engine isn't 100% clear at this moment and that relates to the games portability. Have a look at sites that support free-lancer game-makers and see what they are doing and the way they do it. People are earning money but the  games quality is higher than AGS average quality. And the best games get the money as the low ranked ones are quickly forgotten. Those sites have thousands of people ranking them, you get points when you rank someone's game.

Also, in my opinion, the AGS community has been here thanks to some fortunate gathering of specific people. And because it is free.
Those people are the creator, thank you; the moderators, fantastic; the tech guys, back-bone; the quality game-makers, there are some, not fair to name them; the people that "live" here;
Again, all this work and talent has one common link that is a powerful one: it's all done without any monetary compensation.

The Bake sale was great and its purpose a noble one. But money was asked and doing it so puts the AGS community, the engine and the game makers on a completely different level. The market.
Even if people were asked only for 1,5$, it's still money. And regarding to that, if you want to charge somebody, do it well, the minimum should have been 5$. 14 games for that kind of money is telling people that they will probably find 1,2 games that are worthy...
Sorry for being this way but that's what I think.
I hate to name people and as a rule I never comment a game that I didn't like, but IMO only Ben304 would have make it well in a site like Kongregate, for example. There's a game on the bundle that I wouldn't play for free, sorry. That's what me and thousands of gamers do, the offer is gigantic, so if the quality of the game doesn't reach the minimum you just skip to the next one.
Also, I've noticed that the way modern gamers see adventure games is a bit different from ours (meaning people that played the classics back when they were produced), it's common to have mixed genres in the same game (rpg-puzzle-adventure-platform)...

As I said, before you engage on this summerbatch project, take a look outside AGS. See what people are playing this days, what is the trend, what are the most popular games and why.

As I see things, if you're going to make a game commercial, anything less than what Dave Gilbert is doing with his projects isn't enough. Ask him if he could make a game on his free time until May that could be successful and I believe he would say no.
When planning on selling a game you have to raise the quality bar and you know it.
Have you consider joining efforts and make one really good game?

There's more than 7,000 members here. I'd say 2,000 are faithful and will buy the summerbatch bundle regardless of the quality of the games, but the word spreads fast. Getting into the market is a tricky thing and people expect a lot when they're paying money... I would hate to see this community  badly-spoken on the net.
We have a name on the cyber-space, when people find out they're talking with a Agser they have respect.

Well, the text is long enough, and I know that some people will hate me for judging their work but I'll be here to explain my point of view.
Bare in mind that money is not evil but can and will change things around.
The priority of this community should be the engine and its portability and to ensure that the people doing it are getting all the support they can have. And that may include server money and/or even paying the coders to do it.

[Ali]

I don't think anyone will hate you, miguel. Those are good points, but I don't think m0ds has to worry about the reputation of the AGS community.

I agree that developing the engine is a priority, but there are lots of artists and non-programmers (like me) who can't really contribute to that. I don't think a project like this will distract from long-term goals for AGS.

Quality control is the big issue, and I think m0ds will have to make some tricky decisions to ensure that there are no bad-eggs.

I think the get-out-of-jail-free card is a pay-what-you-like scheme. I'm not sure if that's what m0ds is planning, but I think its worth considering.

That way the selling points are indie quirkiness by penniless gamemakers for whatever you think it's worth.

In conclusion, I think the SummerMartinFreeman has good potential.

[Eggie]

I think there's more people than Ben here who can produce games work forking out money for. I'd totes pay for anything as fun and pretty as Limey Lizard, for instance, and Chance Of The Dead if it had the polish of being made in more time than a month (And RAM ghost was one of my top reasons for buying el bakesale bundalé).

The promotion should definitely emphasise a few flagship titles that'll look good in screenshots and have reputable names attached to them. Once people know they're getting that level of quality it's not like they'll object to having a handful of less professional, but still quality controlled and fun, games thrown in to sweeten the deal.

[ddq]

brb, buying miguel a beer...

[Rocco]

very interesting project, the deadline is very close,
but maybe its possible to make a little heist game, based on my scaffolding i did for City of Thieves.

[Chicky]

Okay, have held off commenting because i'm interested but have no previous credibility.

To me it seems the potential issue is one person putting in 150% and making something that looks marketable and another putting in an equal amount of effort, but to a lower standard. Should person B get the same cut as person A? They've both worked equally as hard but realistically person A is going to bring in more sales.

This is where the humble idea of making a little cash becomes a fight to join the bandwagon, and the claws come out. I'm not saying that this is going to happen, it just strikes me as a little unfair that one member could dedicate 200+ hours to creating something mind blowing, when another makes a game in a month. Are these games going to be moderated by visuals? Length? Gameplay?

Tbh, this is all driven by my massive ego. Everything above is hypothetical. I have a project that is viable for the release window, but i think i'd rather release it as freeware.

[Igor Hardy]

Yeah, quality control will be difficult to handle.

That said, I want to express my total support to the general idea. I don't see anything controversial in asking money for something you've made. Or in making a bundle of things like that.

Releasing a high quality product for free is actually more controversial than asking money for it.

[m0ds]

Sure, thanks for all the comments. Interesting concerns, interesting points and they're all very valid. And exciting to read and think about cos this is what game producing is all about to me   Promoting awesome games!!... I'm really only asking people who've been around a while and have a traceable history/association with AGS to contribute games, so you can definitely expect games of considerable quality in the first pack. And I have every intention of it being a pay what you like scheme. I'm pretty confident in the marketting of the product and the games, if I wasn't, I wouldn't be trying this, I'd be making night of the testicle 2

But reaching a certainl level of quality shouldn't obscure peoples vision of creating what they see as a "great game" for it. Some of the greatest pieces of AGS "art" and stylistic games were short. If that is how one of them turns out it will be effectively marketted as such so you know what you're getting and why we appreciate it and you won't feel ripped off! I appreciate all the input though and the thought out comments, thanks Miguel!

As you know though CJ never had any intention of making anything with AGS it was just a self-accomplishment thing really: I'm a guy who wants to have a game studio before I die - and you know my commitment to the community (which has been 12 years) and I'm more than involved on freeware titles, it's just time to reach some of my personal goals, and those involve monetizing this "hobby" for other people too.

I'm sure CJ feels he has lived a lifetime in AGS, as do I. When I first came here adventure games were strictly dead. They'd only had their heyday less than a decade previous to that. Since then I've seen the birth and rise of indie adventure games (and indie dev on the whole) - also seen the expression of AGS and its impact on the gaming community. It's been a great era, definitely - but this project aims to usher in a new era (for me certainly) especially for those people who want to live off their favorite skills.

Morgan Freeman once said "Get busy livin', or get busy dyin', that's goddaamn AGS". People should be able to make the most of their talents however they see fit and this community has always been supportive of that. I'm confident now that when I promote certain things the right people end up listening, you can't spend your life fighting off what you're good at (another Morgan Freeman quote) the best thing to do is work with it And that's all I'm-a-doin  8)

AGS will always be a piece of software free to use by freewarers and commercial companies if necessary. The fact is Chris has specifically left AGS to be able to compensate. We all have different reasons for being here, and everyone has different reasons for using AGS (but still making the most of it). I've done things for free as I started here at 16, I'm fairly certain someone else in the future will do the same sort of thing from a similar age. I'd be most impressed if someone so young could start making commercial quality games though, because there should be a future for them with things like this. It is a good way to earn a decent living, doing what you love.

My personal stance will always be in unbiased favor towards helping people earn, I will always be inspired by new developers and other people who are comitted to making great games. But I for one know how hard it is to create something worthy to be sold as a lone title under a commercial company. I don't like the prospect of ousting games because they don't meet some people's requirements, rather, be greatful for everything you are given But these are just ramblings...

Perhaps then, there is trust needed, ultimately. Think about my background, 12 years of AGS I've certainly played some rubbish AGS games So the quality control aspect this time round is certainly really going to be my task (as producer) and it will require a little faith. But the fact you'll be able to pay what you want (certainly for a few months) for the games means you won't need to break the bank to play them! Why wouldn't I want to pay the kind of people I'd want working for me in the future, now? It's also a big financial learning project for me, everything is and I don't see myself at the point I want to be at the end of the year without some deeper experience with commercial AGS titles and people developing them.

Lots to think about but I gotta run! (Only just got here and there's been a total thread lockdooownnn) but thanks again folks. I appreciate there are still many unknowns about this kind of venture. Thats why it's good to discuss

[Technocrat]

Hm...I'm intrigued also...time to kick the 4-week plan into action again, except expand it to a few more as well! Who wants a sequel to The Rail?

[Chicky]

I have complete faith in your abilities Mark, and your contacts 

I have a project that is viable for the release window, but i think i'd rather release it as freeware.

Sorry, this came across a bit arrogant. I meant i'd rather release as freeware to pay back the community etc, for all the awesome free games i've played over the years.

Technocrat: I do!!

[Tabata]

Who wants a sequel to The Rail?

    I DO!     

[Creed Malay]

This sounds most interesting! Colour me interested.

[Dualnames]

This sounds most interesting! Colour me interested.

There has been reported an explicit lack of crayons.

[Creed Malay]

M0ds will have saved one for me. We are *tight*.

[qptain Nemo]

Technocrat, I think it'd be fair to let you know that you considering joining this made my day.
I look equally positive towards a The Rail sequel as well as something completely original.

[LocutusofBored]

I'm also interesting in joining up. Poc301 doesn't have much time, but has also agree to help program a game for me. Thanks!

[LRH]

I don't know about the other interested parties, but I would like to address the concern about quality. I completely understand the giving a game away for free and selling a game are two drastically different things.

When making the games I made for free, there were plenty of times when I would approach creation with an attitude such as: "Screw it. This game is for me. This game is free. I know it will likely fall into the vast void of obscurity that plagues the AGS database, but that's not the point. I want to finish this idea and see where it goes." The point of my free games was to develop my understanding of the engine as well as my capacity to create reasonable pixel art. I think it's worth noting that I quite literally spent hundreds of hours on my creations.

A commercial game, no matter how low the cost, will receive a much more tactical approach from me. It must be my best, and it must be worthy. It will be created for the audience just as much as it will be for me. I will treat this game with the gravity it deserves.

I know this may appear superficial and half-hearted, but I really do believe in my current project's worth.

[Stee]

I was just thinking about something like this. But moreso along the lines of a games jam.

Is there a restriction on slots? I'd like to provisionally put myself in, but would rather have something to show for it first if thats ok?

Also, if I can be a little evil, after talking with AngelicCharon, I'd like to put him in provisionally too. We were talking about getting him into the bakesale, but ran out of time, and I think the gentle pressure of having his name on the list might give him a bit of a boost. Of course, I will also pester him to agree 

[m0ds]

Now http://www.summerbatch.co.uk exists! Kind of. Just points to my games page right now but if I'm right Peder Johnsen is working on a landing page and lovely system that will ensure you can download the games easily.

The designers have been working on some great stuff, hopefully I can put up some screenshots soon. As you may know you can already find out about one of the included games, Nancy The Happy Whore in the gip lounge thanks to Technocrat:

http://www.adventuregamestudio.co.uk/yabb/index.php?topic=45593.0

More news soon

StuPot Stee - just get in touch if/when you think it's definitely going to happen your end. The deadline is now June 1st for a release on June 7th.