Topic: FINALLY somebody took a stand...

[monkey_05_06]

@Khris - that's even worse!!  IE6??  Seriously?  There is simply NO [acceptable] reason for ANYbody (company or personal) to still be using IE6.  That's just beyond stupid.

At my employer, most of the computers are using IE6. Most of the representatives using them don't care because the firewall blocks most anything that isn't directly related to the company's sites and tools (which for the most part are generally IE6-compatible). I say "generally", but there's still aspects that don't work at all, like the company's "Careers" site.

I guess that I should consider myself "lucky" that they have an integrated "Software Delivery System" that basically is just a list of LAN-based installers for company-approved programs, including IE7. The best part about it is that it takes about 30-45 minutes to run an installer, that if we could just download and run the installer directly would take about 10-15 minutes. Every time I am moved to a new computer, I take the time to install IE7 before I do anything else (this persists for other users later as well).

Of course, the people I work with are also so intelligent they don't understand the difference between bookmarking ("Favoriting") the forwarding URL (redirects to 1 of 6 servers based on volume) and bookmarking one of the servers statically. "You can't add that to your Favorites, it makes it run slow."

[Khris]

[Frodo]

Sooo... When's a tax coming in to take money for using older versions of Firefox, Chrome, Netscape Navigator etc?

Couldn't agree with this more.

If you're gonna punish those who use an old version of IE, then you should also punish those who use an old version of firefox, chrome etc.
A lot of us actually PREFER IE to the alternatives.   

[Khris]

WHY?

[Frito Master]

A lot of us actually PREFER IE to the alternatives.

Doubtful and there is no logical reason behind it.

A version of Firefox from years ago is still better then the newest internet explorer.

Though I'd vote chrome nowadays as the best browser.

[Anian]

A lot of us actually PREFER IE to the alternatives.

Doubtful and there is no logical reason behind it.

A version of Firefox from years ago is still better then the newest internet explorer.

As soon as you try to dabble in css and html code, you quickly come to see just how crappy IE is.

[Frito Master]

^
I figured just opening it was enough haha.

I was fixing a computer for a old lady once awhile back she had so many toolbars that seriously at least 40% of the browser window was nothing but search tools and news updates.

[Radiant]

If you're gonna punish those who use an old version of IE, then you should also punish those who use an old version of firefox, chrome etc.

The point is that IE is notorious for not complying with internet standards, which Firefox and Chrome have no problem with. It is really true that webdesigners must spend an extraordinary amount of time on having their site work in older IE versions, when it immediately works fine in all other major browsers. It's not about punishment, it's just a statement of fact that supporting older IEs is expensive.

[Snarky]

Yeah, it's like how some stores charge you a little extra if you want to pay by credit card: it costs THEM money, so they pass the cost on to the consumer.

[Darth Mandarb]

If you're gonna punish those who use an old version of IE, then you should also punish those who use an old version of firefox, chrome etc.

Old versions of real browsers (Chrome/Firefox/Safari) are still standards compliant and new stuff (like CSS3) will "fail gracefully" and users of those old[er] versions of real browsers won't even notice that something isn't as cool as it could be.  Take that same site and put it any version of IE and it will look like it was designed by 2 week old partially-blind one-legged gerbil.
 

A lot of us actually PREFER IE to the alternatives.

This really BEGS the question; have you actually tried a real browser?  I do not know how ANYbody that does more than check email (even just those) could actually prefer IE.  You're missing out on a lot the web has to offer.  A lot.  But as I always say, "to each their own".

[monkey_05_06]

Beyond simply not being standards compliant, IE is often not compliant with itself from one version to the next. So supporting, say, the current and two previous versions, as well as supporting the standards compliant browsers, basically involves designing and building the page 4 different times.

Even if you're accustomed to using it, there's very little, even in ways of user interface, that IE does that can't be/aren't easily replicated in other browsers.

[Tabata]

Call me a moron if you are happy to do so   

[Ryan Timothy]

I used to like IE as well... until years ago when actually felt like moving on and trying something else.

I love talking to computer illiterate people and asking what browser they use.
Them: "Oh I use Google"
Me: "So you're using Chrome?"
Them: "No, I use Google. Google is my internet"
That's when I realize they merely have Google set as their home page and have no idea what a browser is and likely using the Google search to punch in URLs.

[Frodo]

This really BEGS the question; have you actually tried a real browser?  I do not know how ANYbody that does more than check email (even just those) could actually prefer IE.  You're missing out on a lot the web has to offer.  A lot.  But as I always say, "to each their own".

If by 'real browser', you just mean one that YOU like (you've made it painfully clear you don't like IE), then yes, I have.  I've tried firefox and chrome at various times, and didn't like them.  They are cumbersome and awkward to use.

[straydogstrut]

I don't get all this bashing people just because they like IE. Get over it.

I've dabbled in web design a little so I *know* you have to jump through hoops to make your sites look pretty in IE aswell as the other browswers, but for actually using the internet I don't see what difference it makes what browser you use so long as you are comfortable with it. I favoured Firefox on Windows then went Mac and used Safari until it started grinding to a halt. Now I use Chrome almost constantly and i'm very happy with it, but I don't see any reason to start flaming anyone for using IE.

At the end of the day, all software has its good and bad points, and people learn and problem-solve differently, so naturally they will find different software to their liking. Personally, despite all the rave reviews of it, I still don't 'get' the Gimp. It just isn't the right fit for me (possibly that is just the Mac version though which doesn't feel like a native app). I don't see that it matters what developers think is the superior browser: Regardless of the technical whizzbangs under the hood, the only thing that matters is that people can actually use the thing and enjoy doing so.

I do agree that users should be encouraged to upgrade if necessary, without rapping them across the knuckles for using a browser the developer doesn't like. It would be impractical for companies to support older software indefinitely. How effective this gimmick will be is doubtful though.

[Anian]

I've tried firefox and chrome at various times, and didn't like them.  They are cumbersome and awkward to use.

Well that's just plainly not true. All those explorers have basically the same user interface with just a tad different interfaces for more advanced functions.

[monkey_05_06]

I've just recently done a fresh install of Windows, and I'll admit...before I even got the Ethernet driver installed, I had already gone in and uninstalled IE8 (that is, I "turned it off"...later I'll worry about setting myself as the "TrustedOwner" of the folders and actually deleting the files ).

I don't think someone's ignorant just because they use IE, I just think that there are better alternatives (opinion). I also understand that from the perspective of a web developer, IE is perhaps the worst case scenario.

For these reasons, I think an IE tax isn't unwarranted.

[Darth Mandarb]

If by 'real browser', you just mean one that YOU like (you've made it painfully clear you don't like IE), then yes, I have.  I've tried firefox and chrome at various times, and didn't like them.  They are cumbersome and awkward to use.

No.  By "real" browser I mean a REAL browser that isn't a worthless, useless, insecure piece of shit like Internet Suxplorer.  IE is not a real browser.  It doesn't qualify. 

Chrome/firefox are "cumbersome and awkward"? You work for Microsoft don't you?

[Babar]

I don't get all this bashing people just because they like IE. Get over it.

I've dabbled in web design a little so I *know* you have to jump through hoops to make your sites look pretty in IE aswell as the other browswers, but for actually using the internet I don't see what difference it makes what browser you use so long as you are comfortable with it.

But you said it yourself. You have to jump through hoops to get it to look right. Some of them are pretty tiresome and insane hoops. Hence the tax (or to be more accurate, the joke...I don't think anyone would actually pay the tax). Since most other browsers are objectively better than IE, they figured "Why should we have to go through that hassle for what is probably someone too lazy to update/change their browser?"

Also, I don't think you'll find a lot of people who disagree that GIMP is a horrible horrible horrible piece of software as far as the UI is concerned.

[Jared]

I've also never gotten the disdain for IE. I never liked Firefox, and still don't - I used it for a while when I was having issues with IE in a new build and, really, Firefox crashed for me a lot and was constantly failing to complete downloads for me. It was also failing to display/load webpages for me on a pretty regular basis. For something that was meant to be far superior I was very, very disappointed.

I use Chrome now, though. The first browser to convince me that it legitimately IS superior to IE. I was still disappointed when I found it caches pages in a different way so I can't recover pages after they're deleted or explore anything in an offline mode, but those aren't functions I've ever used often.