Topic: Farewell, Neil Armstrong

[Ponch]

You make adventure games. You will never be trendy.

But that doesn't mean we can't be sexy. 

[Calin Leafshade]

Yes it does.

[Ponch]

I beg to differ, sir. Clearly, i am one sexy cow. 

[Atelier]

But you don't even have udders. By all acounts that makes you a sorry excuse for a cow.

[Grim]

Sadly, it's not just you Grimm.

It's madness I tells ya, soon people will believe there were "concentration camps" in WW2 where they killed and tortured people.

Really?!?

Is there really a need to be so patronising about this?!?

Do NOT compare me to those who believe that. There is a line, you know. I DID admit my knowledge in that area is sparse and I'm actually willing to change my mind about that seeing how strong people feel about it and faced with the facts. But whether the moon landing happened or not, it doesn't bear the same meaning as Holocaust where millions of lives were lost, probably the worst crime inb the history of mankind. By putting me in the same bag as those Fascist sons of bitches who deny the existence of concentration camps for the purpose of cleaning their undeniable guilt you really do offend me.

I really didn't expect that.

[Ponch]

CJ won't let me post my sexiest cow gifs. But I suppose that's a small price to pay for being a member of the sexiest forums on the interwebs.

Also, this thread is now about sexy Neil Armstrong.  (<-- Sideburns. Very sexy)

[DBoyWheeler]

Yes, let's keep this thread on topic.

[Anian]

Really?!?

Is there really a need to be so patronising about this?!?
...
I really didn't expect that.

Well, yes that did come out harsh, I'm sorry. But that "line" is really foggy, you can basically say anything is BS from history, not doing research or checking for facts about your beliefs and opinions is really offensive to other people. Just because an opinion about a human accomplishment is not perhaps in the same level of grandeur as killing of millions of people, doesn't mean that it doesn't change the attitude towards events.

I firmly believe that historia magistra vitae et testis temporum (or this should be true in a more idyllic world) and when events such as a death of a figure from those same times and history occur, then warping facts and changing events on basis of paranoia and human stupidity (and by this I mean human stupidity in general, not you) is one of the most horrific things that can happen to a civilization.

[Andail]

Grim, you've been met with harsh responses here, but take an objective look at what you're doing.

* Someone starts a thread where people can wish a certain famous person a peaceful rest.
* You, unprompted, claim that the person in question was a fraud.
* When called on this, you have no facts or even thoughts to back it up, just a vague feeling.

Everyone is entitled to their opinions, but an RIP-thread is seldom the right place to barge in and make illfounded accusations.

If anyone wants to debate the alleged falsity of the moon landing, I suggest they start a new thread, and bring at least a modicum of theory to the table.

[Grim]

I think this isn't the first RIP thread that ends up this way... Perhaps the reason for it is that for most people here Neil, or any such person, is a hero, but for some, like me, he isn't. Not in a way that I don't respect his achievement, regardless of my beliefs ( NOT claims), but in a way that I personally didn't grow up wishing it was me going to the moon and playing out the moon landing with my lego characters when I was a kid. It was never something that fascinated me much. Why post an opinion then, I'm sure you'll ask? Because this is a forum and the general idea of it is that people from all cultures and different ways of life can express themselves freely. This isn't some kind of Neil Armstrong memorial forum, but adventure game forum. I'm sure none of his family will read what Grim said and weep. It just really doesn't matter what I believe and if I knew it would be met with such hostility, I'd do something else instead.

I did not call him a fraud, I did not attempt to rewrite history. I'm sure he was a lovely, lovely man, who had a long and accomplished life, and for that fact alone he has my respect. I'm pretty sure that if me and Neil met and I said "Man, you didn't really go to moon and back, did you?" he would just smile and talk to me like a friend. He wouldn't spit in my face and release the hellhounds on me.

But, sorry, that's how I felt here.

[Andail]

I think this isn't the first RIP thread that ends up this way...

No but people usually react when RIP threads derail for no real reason, and thread authors tend to find it disrespectful.

Perhaps the reason for it is that for most people here Neil, or any such person, is a hero, but for some, like me, he isn't. Not in a way that I don't respect his achievement, regardless of my beliefs ( NOT claims), but in a way that I personally didn't grow up wishing it was me going to the moon and playing out the moon landing with my lego characters when I was a kid. It was never something that fascinated me much.

Me neither - I don't have any personal investment in Armstrong's reputation, it's just a matter of principles.

Why post an opinion then, I'm sure you'll ask? Because this is a forum and the general idea of it is that people from all cultures and different ways of life can express themselves freely. This isn't some kind of Neil Armstrong memorial forum, but adventure game forum.

No, this is the general forum, where all topics may be discussed, but a rather fundamental principle here is that we respect the thread topic.

I did not call him a fraud, I did not attempt to rewrite history.

Yes you did. By calling the moon landing a hoax, by proxy you call a man whose entire career and life calling evolves around the moon landing a fraud. And since the moon landing is considered a fact amongst any serious historian or scientist worth his salt (and everyone else with common sense), you are indeed trying to rewrite history.

I'm sure he was a lovely, lovely man, who had a long and accomplished life, and for that fact alone he has my respect. I'm pretty sure that if me and Neil met and I said "Man, you didn't really go to moon and back, did you?" he would just smile and talk to me like a friend. He wouldn't spit in my face and release the hellhounds on me.

Well, his brother-in-arms Buzz Aldrin once punched a guy in the face for expressing disbelief (not approving this, just saying) so I wouldn't be so terribly sure. Frankly I think all of them are pretty tired of conspiracy theorists.

[ddq]

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/1wcrkxOgzhU?feature=player_detailpage" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/1wcrkxOgzhU?feature=player_detailpage</a>

Ignorant and disrespectful, Grim.

[Ponch]

In a perfect world, Buzz Aldrin would live long enough to travel the world, punching everyone who thought he faked his historic accomplishment. 

[Khris]

Grim:
It's laughable that you insist that your stance/beliefs/point of view/whatever is "NOT" a "claim[s]". You're simply trying to pass of your ignorance as a mere "belief" in order to make it unchallengeable. That's dishonest and pathetic.
You aren't agnostic about whether Armstrong has been to the moon; according to your own words it didn't happen because the technology at that time was insufficient to pull it off. That's a direct contradiction to the established facts and the accounts of thousands of people around the world who where directly involved in the live broadcast or watched the spacecraft with their telescopes.

What would you say if I stated on these forums that it was my belief that you didn't create Downfall because your talent was insufficient at the time and that "The Cat Lady" isn't more than the trailers and screenshots and that there's no actual AGS game in the works?
Would your reaction treat this as a false claim, or would you simply shrug and say "that's his belief, he's entitled to it"?

Also, I don't have a huge emotional attachment to the moon missions or to Neil Armstrong. I simply despise the combination of spewing ignorance and acting all victimized when people call you out on it. Either do your research properly and learn something in the process, OR stick to your patently false claim and be ready to argue for it, ffs.

[Armageddon]

He was the best cyclist and he will be missed.




Yes it's a joke.

[Kweepa]

That punch is a hoax.

[Ponch]

That punch is a hoax.

The shadows don't line up! And that is clearly a sound stage! And a stunt double!

[Grim]

There is nothing more I can say, and even if there is, it will probably be taken out of context and called pathetic, ignorant, laughable and false.

I honestly feel that I haven't deserved this kind of comments. I'm not even sure how to feel about this:

In a perfect world, Buzz Aldrin would live long enough to travel the world, punching everyone who thought he faked his historic accomplishment. 

I guess I'll just say thanks and seeya elsewhere on the forum, hopefully in a nicer discussion. I won't post on this thread anymore, because clearly this is upsetting to everyone. I'd say me included, but I suppose I am not allowed to feel a victim here (because I'm the bad guy, and the only way to deal with ignorant fools like myself is to kick the shit out of them- and if that's the case, I'd say mission accomplished, prepare for landing...).

[kconan]

RIP Neil Armstrong

The only folks I've talked to (in person) who didn't believe in the Moon landings were Russian.  During the Space Race their government called BS on the first Moon landing, and in-turn started the early versions of the conspiracy theory.  My Dad worked for NASA Langley for 40 years, so I had steam coming out of ears trying to argue with them and eventually gave up.

I love that Buzz Aldrin clip.

[ddq]

Look, a guy just fucking died, okay? The least you could do is abstain from your utterly uninformed dismissal of his legacy. It's not malicious, it's not even stupid, it's simply ignorant in the purest sense of the word, as you freely admit your beliefs were completely devoid of research or evidence but rather the small-minded disrespect of a great man, not to mention the scientists and engineers who put humans on the goddamn Moon.

Also, props to NASA Langley, kconan.