Topic: Moderator Announcement: Multiple Forum Accounts

[voh]

Had this happened in any of my communities, I would have done the same thing. So, yes, excellent moderating.

The fact that he declined the skype session (which could have completely cleared him if played well) and that he left on his own make it seem that the moderators (and many members) were right. That's a satisfactory conclusion. He seems guilty, but he left without making it worse.

That sort of speaks for him too. This could have been a much dirtier end. I'm glad it isn't.

I'm also glad about the insight. Sure, it's nosy, and I really have no right to have the insight, but knowing about the suspicion and actually getting the outcome completely and clearly explained gives so much trust in that you guys are doing this for the right reasons.

It's a shame he thought he could leverage the forums to his will. I may not be the most active AGSer, but I respect this place far too much to ever consider doing that.

[RickJ]

...  I don't believe for an instant that this was harmless.  ...

I agree whole heartedly with progz.   Fraudulent accounts/postings breaks the trust and insults the intelligence of the community.  Without trust there is no community and no value in an online forum.  As for the individual named in this post, his writing skills (as displayed in his reply to this thread) seems to be well below a PhD or even Masters degree level.  Makes one wonder, doesn't it ...

I also have disgust at the idea of directing people over whom one has authority to praise one's work.  "Go to this public forum and praise my work and vote for my entry in this competition and I'll give you a grade better than you deserve...".  How ethical and mature is that?  Definitely not the behavior of a competent professional or anyone I would want to have contact with. 

Good work and thanks Snarky and other mods...

[kconan]

  The mods were more than fair in this case.  I disagree on it being minor, as RickJ stated this kind of nonsense insults the intelligence of everyone here.  I also think that this is a slap in the face to other people making AGS games and trying to get some exposure. 

[Kimbra]

First of all, the real victim here is AnasAbdin. Not only because 'some' mods are accusing him of something he did not do, they also exposed locations of several people here whom he doesn't know about... oh wait! You people still think I'm another AnasAbdin? ....Really mature.

It's so easy, let the mods simply google the IP I'm using now + "the country name where I'm studing" it'll give them a direct hit to the university campus I'm studying at. And do you guys really think he's that stupid to create multiple accounts from one IP? Not even using proxies?
And NO I WILL NOT EXPOSE MYSELF USING SKYPE TO ANYONE SPECIALLY AFTER KNOWING THAT MY PM TO ONE OF THE MODS WAS FORWARDED TO OTHER PEOPLE (NON MODS INCLUDED)... Next thing a snapshot of my face is roaming the forum...

I'm sure this is the result of jealousy and discrimination from atleast one of the mods towards AnasAbdin. I happen to know most of the people here are into freeware and let's be clear here: you all had a take on AnasAbdin after learning that his game is commercial. I mean go check his Complete Game Announcement and see it for yourselves. Speaking of that thread, AnasAbdin did not know that I was his student here until -me bad- posted a snapshot of his game using a PC from campus which he recognized right away and didn't know how to act or what to do.

I -myself- happen to know one more student using the forum. But hell not all that list. One of them (above in this thread) stated that he/she had another forgotten account. And to be honest, the close logging times of me and any other student is the strongest evidence that we are using the campus PC labs during our breaks to log on the internet.

And yes I do praise him and his work a lot. Because I LOVE EVERYTHING ABOUT HIS GAME AND ART. And since most of you are into games degrading women and drooling over b***ies I happen to LOVE his work here more and more. I log in -and like everyone else in this forum- I check my favorite threads, if nothing to say I don't post. I check posts from people I know (the one person I know), and he is so TALENTED and I can't stop myself from saying something about it. Sue me.
Not to forget that I have the right to post wherever and to whomever I want to. Just sayin'

Maybe sometimes I post nonsense or reply as if the thread was facebook chat? Ok I take the blame not him. Go to his profile and check his posts, always shushing me and the 'other student' he knew about (only lately) because he felt really bad. And he's ALWAYS asked everyone on his threads to use his blog or email if they have nothing important to say because he felt guilty that he wasn't allowed to support the forum financially. Do you really think he needs to push up his threads among a forum that doesn't contribute financially to his game? And speaking of -and I'm really sorry to say that AnasAbdin but I have no choice because the dumdum here is too much and I have to shut some mouths (Mr.Abdin I know you'll kill me for exposing this)- he is using all the profits for an orphanage here (were we live).

In short, believe whatever you want to, I will remain in this forum like anyone else, I will post whenever I want to from whatever IP I'm using. And I encourage everyone to do so. I will praise you if you are good. I am not violating the rules of the forums unless it is not allowed to give your free opinion in a well-mannered way.

[ddq]

Ooh, forum drama. First, the on-topic stuff so Dualnames doesn't yell at me: mods responded appropriately, sock-puppeting isn't harmless, but isn't as egregious as some claim, Kimbra should probably stop digging their way out of a hole and take a Xanax, and Prometheus was a fucking terrible film.

[Grim]

I actually quite enjoyed Prometheus...

Well, if this is true, an orphanage in which children guided by their charismatic inspirational teacher make adventure games together, must be the most awesome orphanage in the world!

[straydogstrut]

Yes, I understood the intent with the latest mod post to be a summary of this case and a call for discussion on how future cases should be handled. The mods themselves mentioned that this is not the only case being looked at. I think singling out AnasAbdin or jumping to prove/disprove the accusations is best left for PMs to the mods from anyone who has concerns, otherwise this topic will quickly spiral out of control.

Given that we haven't had an explicit rule prohibiting such behaviors, we would like to ask the community for input on how we should proceed in the future. We wouldn't normally expect to make this big a deal of fake accounts, but we feel this has been going on for so long, and affected so many members, that some sort of closure is necessary. As previously mentioned, this is not the only case we are looking at, and further announcements may follow.

[Dave Gilbert]

So sad that this happened. But I suppose since the folks involved have declined to step up and refute the claims, there was no other outcome.

[Andail]

Kimbra, I understand that you're emotionally affected by this, but please try to look at from our perspective, and please address the questions that have been raised instead of throwing around your own accusations. None of the moderators have ever held a grudge towards AnasAbdin. Nobody is jealous or bitter or angry with him because he's made a successful game that he has chosen to make commercial.

None of the great professional game makers - Vince and Dave to mention two - have been met with skepticism or resentment by this community for going commercial.

Also, you keep referring to the fact that Anas is kind towards children, and that he's expressed interest in supporting AGS financially. This is beside the point - we're not questioning Anas's warm heart and dedication to AGS.

Anas's only response so far has been virtually the same - how people are jealous of him for being successful and popular, and he's also already mentioned how he helps orphans and what not. If you feel you have been unfairly targeted by other members or moderators in the past, please point out these instances. It doesn't help to portray yourselves as martyrs.

[Kimbra]

I am so sad you mods made me cry 
He NEVER mentioned the children and he NEVER asked for sympathy and he NEVER tried to look like a martyr (when did he mention the orphans???)
I also feel violated when one of the mods forwarded my PM to other people, you mods are no guarding angels and what you did to him is not acceptable.

[Ali]

Kimbra, I think most of us would prefer it if you were telling the truth. AnasAbdin is/was well liked in the forums. However, it's hard to believe that he was unaware of your posting when posts are as close together as this:

AnasAbdin          Re: Anastronaut: The Moon Hopper    26 January 2012, 08:52:05
Kimbra             Re: Anastronaut: The Moon Hopper    26 January 2012, 08:42:47
AnasAbdin          Re: [Released] Anastronaut          26 January 2012, 08:40:01

I'm not saying it's impossible, but it stretches credibility.

To paraphrase Richard Dawkins, extraordinary claims require extraordinary proofs. You can't make an extraordinary claim, refuse to back it up and start throwing around insults.

[AnasAbdin]

omg! you're all being judgmental now?! Next time I'll always check the IP/time/date of a post before I reply. Happy?
Jesus I don't want to explain any further. this is so sad 

[Stupot+]

The plot thickens. Think of the orphans, people!
I always thought Anas seemed cool. But something was always a bit odd about this situation.

I think this has happened before though (just not to quite the same scale). I've noticed several times in the past that a CG announcement has brought with it some new members who disappear again after a few quick  posts about that one game.  With the bigger releases that get publicised elsewhere, then fine, but it has happened on small games too.

[AnasAbdin]

And please, I don't want anyone to talk in behalf of me. I have chosen to lay back the forum for a short time because it's the beginning of the semester and I am busy with work and life; not for any other reason.

[Ali]

omg! you're all being judgmental now?! Next time I'll always check the IP/time/date of a post before I reply. Happy?
Jesus I don't want to explain any further. this is so sad 

I agree it's sad, which is why I haven't attacked you at any point. I'm saying it's hard to believe that you weren't aware of one another using the same forums in the same place within minutes of each other.

EDIT: And I was actually addressing Kimbra, not you!

[AGA]

For the people who have been accusing the mods of being biased, or of victimisation, I can tell you this is nonsense.

I haven't been involved in the decision making of this issue, since I don't pay enough attention to the relevant forums to make a judgement (I had no idea who AnasAbdin even was).  In the discussion thread in the staff forum, the points were laid out calmly and without strong opinion.  The decision to make this thread was made with input from a large number of the staff, and certainly was never down to one person's personal dislike of the people (person?) involved.  The staff have acted as would be expected of them: fairly and neutrally.

[Snarky]

As AGA says, no one has in any way been "out to get" AnasAbdin. Before this case came up, I believe most moderators either personally liked him, or had no opinion one way or the other. Our responses and actions follow from the evidence (the most important parts of which we have presented).

I am personally convinced that Kimbra is AnasAbdin, or at the very least acting in cohort with him. The post above is point for point the same claims previously made by him, including the ridiculous "You shared a PM with someone else? You're history's greatest monster!" pretext for refusing a video chat.

For the record, Kimbra sent a PM defending AnasAbdin. It contained no information he would not already be aware of if his story were true. I replied to them both with the offer of a video chat, cc'ing another mod who had been in touch with him. He responded in a similarly outraged and paranoid manner. Kimbra never responded... but then that would be redundant since they are apparently of the same mind on everything.

The mods (like, I would hope, any other members) use discretion in sharing PMs with anyone else. If the message states that it's only for one person, or contains sensitive information, we would keep it private unless there were overwhelming reasons otherwise. Apart from that, PMs to the mods in their official capacity are routinely shared among the other moderators, in order to coordinate our responses and keep everyone on the same page. And we may forward a PM to someone else that it relates to, if that does not compromise the original sender, just like you might forward an email to another friend or co-worker. This should not be a shock to anyone.

To be clear: We would, of course, not publicly disseminate recordings or screenshots of such a video chat, particularly if it proved AnasAbdin and Kimbra to in fact be separate people. As I've been sort of the point person on this case (though we've had extensive discussions behind the scene to decide how to handle it), I can fully understand if AnasAbdin has formed some resentment against me. If he has more trust in and would prefer to deal with one of the other moderators, that's fine.

I am disappointed that AnasAbdin has not stuck by the decision to leave the community voluntarily, and that Kimbra is still posting. As voh said, this matter could have been put to a clean end; now it will have to get messier.

[Radiant]

Where one side (i.e. the mods) has rational argument and clear evidence, and the other (i.e. this game designer who I haven't heard of) has just a bunch of insults, I'm pretty obviously going with the former. Come on, I've seen this on wikipedia plenty of times, sockpuppeteers respond like that all the time when caught redhanded.

[voh]

Okay, regardless of what the exact truth is, the fact that this many accounts are posting from the same IP will remain shady at best.

This isn't about 'discrimination'. Most people on these forums have been supportive of commercial ventures (though are sometimes disappointed by seemingly high price points, that doesn't mean they're not supportive of the venture itself) because it shows that we, as AGSers, can do 'real', commercially viable games. Look at Resonance, the Blackwells, Gemini Rue. That we'd be negative towards Anas because of his game becoming a commercial venture is one incredibly weak argument. Hell, it was on my 'to check' list.

Either way, I think maybe it's a good idea if all the complicit accounts stop posting for a bit. Let this die down. Talk to the mods, find the truth or at least a middle ground everyone can be happy with.

Making this a public debate between the 'accused' and the mods will only reflect badly on Anas and friends.

Take a breath and find a solution.

[Dualnames]

I personally liked Anas, but seriously, refusing to come forth via some way to prove he's not behind the accounts, and instead choosing to back away from the forums before he gets banned to appear as a martyr, is ridiculous. All you had to do was prove yourself, and you failed to do by anyone's standards. And that's wrong in my books.