Possible enhancements on Indiana Jones combat system

[Monsieur OUXX]

Hi all,

Im here to discuss enhancements on the fight sequences in Indiana Jones games : Last Crusade and Fate of Atlantis.

As you now, the system is currently like this :
1. You can position your fists/guard either in high, middle or low position. The opponent does the same. If your fists are at the same level where your opponent punches, then you automatically block his attack.
2. You can punch any time, and he will block you under the same condiitons as you block him.
3. When you punch, you use up some of your "energy bar", which grows back when you do nothing. He loses as much health as you used up energy when you punched (same goes for him and his energy bar).
4. You can hop backwards or forward. The move is rather slow and rarely allows you to evade a puch.

The difficulty of an enemy comes from how much health bar he has, how big is his energy bar (and how fast it restores), and how quickly he adjusts his fists position to yours (to block your punches).

I've always found that system horrible. Some people argue that it's actually fun, but I don't think it is. The controls are clunky, inaccurate, and it looks like your slow moves are more a result of a bad graphical engine than a deliberate gameplay choice. Moreover there doesn't seem to be any advantage is choosing between tactics (hopping backwads, punching franticly, etc.)

How would you improve that? I'm thinking of something simple. Not some fancy system (by the way, quest for glory made it much more complex but in the end it's still completely unplayable).

I was thinking of something like Prince of Persia: You have to pres a button to block an attack. But it's also the only moment when the opponent is vulnerable, so you have to quickly strike back. And moving forward helps harrassing him.

But with the new devices (like tablets) there would be a need for something that works entirely using "screen tapping". I'm not sure what would be the best way of blocking AND striking back, when using a touch screen.

Any ideas? This is more of a brainstorm, any idea is accepted.

[Tramponline]

Totally agree with you. It was a horrible system and it annoyed the heck out of me.
The response time after hitting a key was frankly quite ridiculous, which meant that I usually caught myself furiously mashing random buttons at some point, which is probably the worst result any game interface could trigger.

One idea that immediatley popped into my head rereading your list about the old Lucasgames system:

Assuming the player character has one hand raised to block and the other hand lowered in order to be ready to punch.
By using the left/right arrow keys (just as example) you could alternate between which hand is raised and which hand is ready to punch (i.e. lower), while using the upwards key to actually punch.
The same principle applies to the opponent. Any punches dealt on the blocking hand side would result in minor damage to the enemy, while punching at the side with the opponent's lowered hand would cause a considerable amount of damage (maybe even stagger him/her for a short intervall) and vice versa.

Obviously, an example of a very, very simplified fighting concept. But might be a good base to improve upon...(e.g. additional ducking = arrow down, side steppting etc.)

I've to admit, I know virtually nothing about tablets of any kind, so I wouldn't know about those...                 

[CaptainD]

The mouse-controlled system used in the old 16-bit game Pirates! could possibly work too - use LMB to attack, RMB, mouse cursor position determines going forward, back, height of attack / block (from 3 presets).  Seems like that might not be a bad methodology for touchscreen either?

[DrJone.s]

There was a combat system in Cruise for a Corpse that you rarely see in playthrough videos because it can be avoided by using the soap at the right place.

Anyways, the system works this way (talking from memory as I haven't played that game in twenty years!):

left click - punch if you are close to the enemy
right click - evade.

I remember the characters moved, so it might be that a character moves back if it gets hit, or maybe if it evades, left click might make you move forward if you are too far from the enemy to punch it.

It was quite cool. Back in the day, I liked it more than the Indy combat system. However, as any video I saw skips the combat, you'll have to play the game up to that point in order to see it.

[InCreator]

The one used in Mafia II (lmb - quick strike, rmb - hard jab, hold space to evade next attack) would work perfectly for Indy. You can scrap rmb if you want, and just have buttons to attack and block.
And successful dodge will leave enemy open for quick strike combo.
It's a bit on an easy side and rather simple to master, but adventure game doesn't need too hard arcade sequences anyway.

AND you can always modify how often enemy dodges for difficulty curve, OR just add stamina/energy to the formula for more complexity.
For example, holding space also drains stamina (like in Chivalry: Medieval Warfare) so the easy "just hold space until opportunity opens"-approach is discouraged due stamina loss.

Sounds perfect to me -- no need to reinvent the wheel.
On a tablet, if multi-tap is supported (all new tablets have), it would look like this:


You hold thumb on a dodge button or tap hit one. And control movement with other hand.
OR, you could even make "back up" movement as dodge key IF enemy is attacking, and "hit" one as attack IF you're nearby, otherwise to move forwards. Then you'd need only 2 controls instead of 4.
But this would sound too much like simplified quick-time event game then. I'd go for 4 controls.

[Monsieur OUXX]

There was a combat system in Cruise for a Corpse

WHAT THE...?
This game is one of my first 4 video games EVER (I played it on a 286), and as a kid I had a LOT of trouble finishing it... I played that game for so long it's practically carved into my brain with fire letters.

...And now you tell me there was a COMBAT SYSYEM in it?

...You sir, made my day! Off to Youtube!

[Monsieur OUXX]

^ That post was the off-topic post.

Now for the serious post : all those leads are very interesting! I don't regret asking around for advice. Thanks y'all!

[MiteWiseacreLives!]

I say look into the Pirates! fighting system style like CaptainD mentioned has my vote, easy for tablets too.
Use mouse clicks:
Click high, mid or low on the opponent for an attack
Click ground behind you to step back, ahead to go foreword.
Click yourself to block high, mid, low.
Click objects in background, if near them, to pick them up (Hit him with the Vase, Indy!)
I think it would be fun, in that it is a change up from the original and the single click and mouse controls suck you in. I built something sorta like this for my current project, it got pretty good feedback and I enjoy playing it myself still too.

[Monsieur OUXX]

I watched several videos of the "Pirates!" system and it really looks like it sucks. It looks very clunky and "inaccurate", and seems to have a boring pace.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yomPFU-azRI

I think the Prince of Persia 2 system, for example, is much more thrilling : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mCRCmqTGhjI  ..And thinking about it, it's actually very similar to the one in Mafia II...