The power of the weakness

Started by tanito0, Wed 14/05/2014 22:03:19

Previous topic - Next topic

tanito0

Hello! My name is Tanito0 and I have an HP Pavilion that still has Windows XP. Since I got a job a few months ago, I have gathered enough money to buy a new pc, with decent 2014 devices. Last month I was ready to do so, but in the last moment, there was something that stopped me. I realized that I had never used the potential tools that my beautiful computer could give me. In fact, I started to think about how little value we give to the things we already possess, and how little we know of the beautiful creating possibilities that a PC offers us. I mean, a hundred years ago, people had to write a paper and send it to a post office that would take several days to deliver a message to another person in a different country. Nowadays, we have a billion tools able thanks to the internet, but it seems that we are not ready to enjoy it properly. My computer has five or six years of use, but for these days it may seem already old because it cannot run Battlefield 4. Like the song says, "where are we running"? Where THE HELL are we running? 

Needed to share this!
Tanito0
Pixelado

kaput

Howdy, Tanito0. Firstly, pass the doobie. Secondly, I also have an HP Pavilion. We are 'should be buddies'. Now pass that doobie. Whilst a majority of latest gadgets are better, we shouldn't doubt our little rust bugs. Keep a hold of 'em, because planned obsoletion is coming harder and faster. I for one approve this message.

Cassiebsg

Most people upgrade their computers to follow up with a particular game that requires you to have the state of the art... other wise most ppl don't really need super fast computers. mMst pll just use them to surf the net, read email/forum and maybe play Solitaire/Freecell/Tetris... maybe they write a few texts with wWord, but that's about it.

A few years ago (3 or 4) I replaced my old one (that was about 4-5 years old) with a little sleek power efficient eeee-PC. I've been pretty happy with it, even though it was actually a down grade in relation to my old one (that was a lot more powerful, but less energy efficient). And for the last 4 years, I haven't done much more than "most" ppl do.-.. surf the net, read email and play solitaire...

However, today, I just realized that if I'm going to continue dabbling into making 3D models and renderings, that I may actually need my old computer - or an updated and even more powerful version of it... I just can't stand the slow processing, the lagging mouse pointer, and hours of rendering (for a single image, just to check and adjust materials and lighting)...
There are those who believe that life here began out there...

Babar

The problem is, even if you just do simple stuff like browsing and watching movies and such, most of that software is constantly updating, and you soon find your computer running slower doing the simplest things.

You could hold out on updating, but eventually the software you are using comes up with a new major feature (and most content makes use of it), or a security fix, then you have to.
The ultimate Professional Amateur

Now, with his very own game: Alien Time Zone

Janos Biro

"In skating over thin ice, our safety is in our speed" - Ralph Waldo Emerson.

I recently updated my computer to be able to play some recent games I always wanted to play, and never could. I think the question here is why we need to update faster and faster. It is not just because things get better faster and faster, but because corporations need to sell parts faster and faster to get more and more profit. We are now concentrated in throwing things away to make room for new things, because stopping doing that could lead to an economic disaster.
I'm willing to translate from English to Brazilian Portuguese.

Gribbler

For graphics heavy games like BF4 I use a console and don't have to worry about specs, RAM, CPU, GPU or anything. Every game runs super smooth. And for everything else, office stuff and less demanding games such as adventures I use my now 7 year old laptop. Perfect solution.

miguel

Yeah, I rather play fast-paced games on the console and use my 7 year laptop for AGS and retro gaming. But I'm getting to the point that I can't even play new adventure games on it, so next Xmas I'm thinking about offering myself a new PC. Or a PS4...Decisions...
Working on a RON game!!!!!

Ghost

Quote from: janosbiro on Wed 14/05/2014 23:32:27
I recently updated my computer to be able to play some recent games I always wanted to play, and never could.

Wow. But what about all those slave kids in the mines, man, digging the copper for that machine!
With their tiny tiny hands!

DoorKnobHandle

Quote from: Ghost on Thu 15/05/2014 01:30:36
Quote from: janosbiro on Wed 14/05/2014 23:32:27
I recently updated my computer to be able to play some recent games I always wanted to play, and never could.

Wow. But what about all those slave kids in the mines, man, digging the copper for that machine!
With their tiny tiny hands!

I love you Ghost! :)

Janos Biro

Quote from: Ghost on Thu 15/05/2014 01:30:36
Quote from: janosbiro on Wed 14/05/2014 23:32:27
I recently updated my computer to be able to play some recent games I always wanted to play, and never could.

Wow. But what about all those slave kids in the mines, man, digging the copper for that machine!
With their tiny tiny hands!

You are making fun of something very serious. (wrong)
I'm willing to translate from English to Brazilian Portuguese.

tanito0

Quote from: Sunny Penguin on Wed 14/05/2014 22:22:09
Howdy, Tanito0. Firstly, pass the doobie. Secondly, I also have an HP Pavilion. We are 'should be buddies'. Now pass that doobie. Whilst a majority of latest gadgets are better, we shouldn't doubt our little rust bugs. Keep a hold of 'em, because planned obsoletion is coming harder and faster. I for one approve this message.

:-DChewbie doobie for you man! Getting by in life without video card  (nod)
Pixelado

miguel

Quote from: DoorKnobHandle on Thu 15/05/2014 01:32:06
Quote from: Ghost on Thu 15/05/2014 01:30:36
Quote from: janosbiro on Wed 14/05/2014 23:32:27
I recently updated my computer to be able to play some recent games I always wanted to play, and never could.

Wow. But what about all those slave kids in the mines, man, digging the copper for that machine!
With their tiny tiny hands!

I love you Ghost! :)

You have to admit it, Janos: you were just asking for it. It sounds like all you did on those topics was to defend therories that you clearly don't follow.
Working on a RON game!!!!!

bicilotti

Great topic, tanito0!
Great joke, Ghost! :P

Quote from: Babar on Wed 14/05/2014 23:17:22
The problem is, even if you just do simple stuff like browsing and watching movies and such, most of that software is constantly updating, and you soon find your computer running slower doing the simplest things.

You could hold out on updating, but eventually the software you are using comes up with a new major feature (and most content makes use of it), or a security fix, then you have to.

There is an OS which is remarkably stable (albeit with somewhat dated software selection), frugal in resource usage, which updates programs only for security reasons and doesn't force shiny new features down your throat! And it's gratis, too!

I promise I will stop being an obnoxious evangelist.
(for this month only)
fingers crossed


CaptainD

I've been using an old, under-powered for ages.  I've also wanted to replace it for ages but haven't had the money.  Still, it's good in one way - I figure that if the games I'm developing run fine on my PC, they'll run fine on pretty much anything! ;-D 
 

Babar

Quote from: bicilotti on Thu 15/05/2014 12:19:07
There is an OS which is remarkably stable (albeit with somewhat dated software selection), frugal in resource usage, which updates programs only for security reasons and doesn't force shiny new features down your throat! And it's gratis, too!

I promise I will stop being an obnoxious evangelist.
(for this month only)
fingers crossed
I already use xubuntu, you filthy italian. Except when I want to play games. Which I admit is more often than I want to mess around in xubuntu :D.
The ultimate Professional Amateur

Now, with his very own game: Alien Time Zone

Janos Biro

Quote from: miguel on Thu 15/05/2014 10:58:44
Quote from: DoorKnobHandle on Thu 15/05/2014 01:32:06
Quote from: Ghost on Thu 15/05/2014 01:30:36
Quote from: janosbiro on Wed 14/05/2014 23:32:27
I recently updated my computer to be able to play some recent games I always wanted to play, and never could.

Wow. But what about all those slave kids in the mines, man, digging the copper for that machine!
With their tiny tiny hands!

I love you Ghost! :)

You have to admit it, Janos: you were just asking for it. It sounds like all you did on those topics was to defend therories that you clearly don't follow.

Absolutely not! I never advocated boycotting practices as the solution to anything. If you think that you have to stop consuming to be able to criticize something like that, the joke is on you! No amount of boycott could ever change society, because boycott is a consumer right, very different from a political change. See Why personal change does not equal political change
I'm willing to translate from English to Brazilian Portuguese.

Slasher

#16
Hi

I'm using a computer that was developed in the 'Ark' and made by Noah.....

This means that I can't do somethings because it won't take the latest software to run it.

But at £40 from a bootfair what can you expect (laugh)

This is course means I will need to purchase an up to date computer to be able to run the latest software.

At the end of the day a rusty old morris minor may run ok and get you from A to B but it would make for a smoother, faster ride if you had a BMW....

Software and technology determine computer needs.

Playstation, Cube etc for games is good, if you can afford it, else you battle along with what you have.

Unless of course you win the lottery (laugh)

If you can upgrade do so, you'll have to in the end anyway.



miguel

QuoteAbsolutely not! I never advocated boycotting practices as the solution to anything. If you think that you have to stop consuming to be able to criticize something like that, the joke is on you! No amount of boycott could ever change society, because boycott is a consumer right, very different from a political change. See Why personal change does not equal political change

Just theory, again. You are not coherent with the ideas you defend. If I am totally against CO2 emissions and preach about it on the internet is it okay if I buy a muscle-car from the 70's? I can do it, but to some (if not all) I'll just be and sound like a fake.
Working on a RON game!!!!!

Janos Biro

#18
Quote from: miguel on Fri 16/05/2014 00:32:10
QuoteAbsolutely not! I never advocated boycotting practices as the solution to anything. If you think that you have to stop consuming to be able to criticize something like that, the joke is on you! No amount of boycott could ever change society, because boycott is a consumer right, very different from a political change. See Why personal change does not equal political change

Just theory, again. You are not coherent with the ideas you defend. If I am totally against CO2 emissions and preach about it on the internet is it okay if I buy a muscle-car from the 70's? I can do it, but to some (if not all) I'll just be and sound like a fake.

I find amazing that you still insist on this idea. Look, I would be incoherent if the theory was limited to an individual consumer choice. Some (if not all) people who would find it fake to criticize CO2 emissions and buy such a car simply didn't understood where the CO2 emissions come from. They naively believe it comes from people buying inefficient cars. Bullshit, only a small fraction of CO2 emissions comes from that. Besides, you can't possible compare the act of buying a better computer with buying a "muscle-car from the 70's". Consoles are much worse. I used old computers for all my life. This one not such a luxury, it is just enough so I can play L.A. Noire. So stop trying to find excuses to attack me. You don't really care about the problem I pointed out back there. It simply bothers you because you don't want to admit you were wrong.
I'm willing to translate from English to Brazilian Portuguese.

miguel

#19
So, if a person doesn't understand consumer theories, CO2 emission causes, gaming industry evil plots and the difference from buying an old car and a new computer then he comes to Janos to know the truth. Got it.

My opinion is that my opinion is worth shit, I may be able to influence the people that depend and live with me and that's about it. My opinion is that if I really wanted to educate or tell the truth to a certain group of people then I'd better live and act according to what I want them to believe.
But because I don't, I just do my best to cope with life around me, part of it is trying not to impose my belief on others.
That takes a while to learn but hopefully you'll get there, because, like I said before and with no sarcasm - you are an interesting and obviously intelligent person and a good asset to the community.
Working on a RON game!!!!!

Ghost

a) My initial post was neither funny nor wise; it derailed a thread and I am sorry about that. My fault really.

b) After a lengthy and verbose discussion about how there are too many games, how consumerism is bad, how people should better try to have less than more, now defending the purchase of a new computer with the Statement that it isn't luxury as long as it just plays LA Noir DOES sound hypocrite as hell.

Gribbler

Quoteyou can't possible compare the act of buying a better computer with buying a "muscle-car from the 70's". Consoles are much worse.

Yep. My 6-year old PS3 required so much coal it was getting tiresome. Not to mention smog in the apartment. I sold it and bought PS4 - now I feed it plutonium and it's so much safer and cleaner! ;)

Ghost

Quote from: Gribbler on Fri 16/05/2014 11:09:27
Yep. My 6-year old PS3 required so much coal it was getting tiresome.

Kiiiids these days. I'm still using a PS2 and it is glorious! They work by herding electric eels.

Gribbler

Quote from: GhostKiiiids these days. I'm still using a PS2 and it is glorious! They work by herding electric eels.
Hey! I still keep my PS1 and use it as a training bike occasionally!

CaptainD

Wish I still had my hand-cranked Atari ST :~(
 

Ghost

Quote from: Gribbler on Fri 16/05/2014 12:18:26
Hey! I still keep my PS1 and use it as a training bike occasionally!

If you now tell me you have a copy of DARKSTALKERS I may have to visit one day! I'll bring snacks! Seriously. You name them, I bring them.

Janos Biro

#26
I'm really sorry for staying off topic, but I'm being accused of hypocrisy and I have the right to defend myself.

miguel and Ghost,

I don't think I'm smarter than anyone here, that's why I'm sure you all can understand what I'm saying. It WOULD be hypocrisy if I stated anywhere that people SHOULD stop buying things. I never said that, and I gave you my reasons for believing that stop buying has nothing to do with the problem I addressed. Your tendency to misinterpret me makes me think you feel guilty about buying stuff made by people working in terrible conditions, and you are trying to deal with this guilt by mocking those who bring this fact to your attention. It's not "gaming industry evil plots". People are being explored because of historical conditions, and this will keep happening either you buy things or you don't, because consuming "too much" is not the cause of capitalism. The production system is the cause of poverty, and there's nothing you can do about it as a consumer. Only politically aware citizens can do something about it. Your insistence in the idea that I should stop consuming computers because I know they are a product of exploration is illogical. Poor people wont get better jobs just because I refrain from having computers. Think about it before you say something like that. My main point in that old topic was not about what I DEFEND, was about a FACT. You can't deny that fact by pointing to contradictions in my personal attitude. Blaming consumers for poverty in India and Africa is like blaming old catholic ladies for the Inquisition and the Holy Wars.

What is happening here sounds to me as the reaction of people who want to deny reality by mocking people who point at this reality. My attitude towards this problem goes way beyond a consumer choice. I feel bad about people being explored too, but I deal with it by doing more than useless "simple living". I do it by political activism. If you don't want to do the same, fine. But don't come trying to mock me just so you can feel less guilty about it. If you believe that stop buying is the best you can do, then do it. I don't think it is the best I can do, so I do something else instead. But don't matter what you do, the fact that some things are made by people working in terrible conditions remains true, even if we don't give a shit about it. What bothers me is that your comment seem to try to deny that, like saying: Janos says computers are made of minerals extracted by war prisoners in Congo, by he buys computers too, therefore he is full of bullshit, therefore the game industry have nothing to do with what's going on in Congo, therefore I can use my computer in peace...
I'm willing to translate from English to Brazilian Portuguese.

Ghost

#27
Quote from: janosbiro on Fri 16/05/2014 16:05:29
if I stated anywhere that people SHOULD stop buying things. I never said that
But you made multiple threads that were all about people who said things you said you agreed with, and you continued all of these threads multiple pages, bringing in more quotes to strengthen the quotes you have already made. If you never were never in any agreement with what you quoted, why quoting it in the first place? Because usually when someone remains passionate about a point and goes to some lengths to defend it, he or she stands "behind the issue" at least a bit.
[edit]
And that was all my initial post was indeed poking fun at: That after using an argument to strengthen your position, now doing an action that makes it so easy to repeat the argument against your position. In your case it was someone asking a musician if his music was worth it that someone has to dig up the metal for his guitar under terms of child labour, and that was somehow a valid point against consumerism and art and civilisation.


Quote from: janosbiro on Fri 16/05/2014 16:05:29Your tendency to misinterpret me makes me think you feel guilty about buying stuff made by people working in terrible conditions, and you are trying to deal with this guilty by mocking those who bring this fact to your attention.
This is cold reading at ist best. You feel misinterpreted. I think my view on your argumentation is justified. But like you already did, and are now again doing, stop complaining about assumptions being made and in the same sentence making assumptions.


Janos Biro

Ghost,

Sigh... NOTHING of what I said or quoted implies in the idea that buying computers is wrong. You keep arguing like that was the case. How can I understand that you did not misinterpreted me? The issue was NEVER about buying or not buying. If you read it like that... What can I say, besides that you were reading it wrong?

So I can understand you don't feel guilty about buying things made by people working in terrible conditions? What do you feel about it?
I'm willing to translate from English to Brazilian Portuguese.

Ghost

#29
Quote from: janosbiro on Fri 16/05/2014 16:30:11
NOTHING of what I said or quoted implies in the idea that buying computers is wrong.
That's good, because it would make a terrible argument.

Quote from: janosbiro on Fri 16/05/2014 16:30:11
You keep arguing like that was the case.
I'm not. Right now I am saying that you spent many words on a linear discussion. This discussion lead from games being too Long to there being too many games to civilisation being flawed. This made me and several others think that you somehow supported that view. If that is not the case, then consider much of what I said null and void.
Currently you seem to be stating that you aren't really believing in that argument. Just in the facts behind the argument.
So I admit I am confused.

Still, since this seems not to trigger a lock I'm interested in seeing it through :)

Janos Biro

#30
...

I think I get it. When you read what someone writes, you aim at understanding what that person believes, rather than looking at the reality that person is pointing to. Is that right?

If you were not arguing like my argument is that buying computers is wrong, why you said it was hypocrisy to point to how computers are made and to buy a new computer? Where is the hypocrisy, if you understood I never said buying computers is wrong?

I know, my discussion back there was pretty radical, pretty boring, pretty strange and pretty useless. I'm sorry, okay? Will you ever forgive me? What bothers you, Ghost? Why you kept that in your mind until now? I totally support the view I presented, but this view never had anything to do with buying or not buying computers.

What I said in this topic was simply that what I personally think about it doesn't matter, and not that I do not believe in what I said, you see? You keep thinking in terms of what I believe or not. What is the relevance of this? Does it change the fact?
I'm willing to translate from English to Brazilian Portuguese.

Ghost

Quote from: janosbiro on Fri 16/05/2014 16:56:11
I think I get it. When you read what someone writes, you aim at understanding what that person believes, rather than looking at the reality that person is pointing to. Is that right?
I think we've got it now, yes. I never wanted to say that you buying a new computer is a wrong, and I never wanted to make you appear a "bad person" just because you did buy a new computer.

Quote from: janosbiro on Fri 16/05/2014 16:56:11
If you were not arguing like my argument is that buying computers is wrong, why you said it was hypocrisy to point to how computers are made and buying a new computer? Where is the hypocrisy, if you understood I never said buying computers is wrong?
The contradition in my eye was that you first used the "child slaves dig up ore and that is terrible, and a musician should question that!" argument. I understand it was not YOU saying that line, so I don't pull any punches here: It's a silly, tearful and pretentious argument.
Then, however, you act like 99% of the world and just accept the bad things and get a new computer anyway. Thus my "what about the slave kids" mockery. But also kudos for you ;) You're just like us :-D

I feel relieved we could clear that up (nod)

Gribbler


Janos Biro

Ghost,

Child slaves DO dig up ore for our computers parts, and this IS really terrible, and we SHOULD do something about it. But this situation comes long before computers being invented and will remain the same even if people magically cease to use computers right now. It has nothing to do with individual consumption practices. Even if you and I could stop using computers, our society can't. Banks need it, hospitals need it, schools need it, every little shop need it. The fact that we need something doesn't nullifies the fact that is made by "slaves". Only better working conditions can change that. You can achieve that by organizing political actions against those who use "slaves", by bringing them to justice. See? It's really simple. I hope we can be friends now.
I'm willing to translate from English to Brazilian Portuguese.

Ghost

Quote from: janosbiro on Fri 16/05/2014 17:31:52
See? It's really simple.

Wow, that makes perfect sense now and I am grateful to have it all spelled out to me. Much wow (nod)

tanito0

Dudes, I think that what we are discussing here is computer GAMING, not computer use in general. Obviously, without computers, a crysis would explode in the World as things are up to 2014. :tongue:
Pixelado

Ghost

Quote from: tanito0 on Fri 16/05/2014 21:17:46
Dudes, I think that what we are discussing here is computer GAMING, not computer use in general. Obviously, without computers, a crysis would explode in the World as things are up to 2014. :tongue:
Yes, that little tete-a-tete here was a bit of a fallout from a couple other threads. I think I started it. Sorry.


I'm serious about the PS2 though. That thing is unkillable. In the time I own it a friend blasted through three XBoxes. Power to the weak indeed. And SSX Tricky is glorious :=

Gribbler

Quote from: GhostI'm serious about the PS2 though. That thing is unkillable. In the time I own it a friend blasted through three XBoxes. Power to the weak indeed. And SSX Tricky is glorious.
"It's tricky! It's tri-tri-tri-tricky!" (laugh)

Khris

Quote from: janosbiro on Fri 16/05/2014 16:05:29Your tendency to misinterpret me makes me think you feel guilty about buying stuff made by people working in terrible conditions, and you are trying to deal with this guilty by mocking those who bring this fact to your attention.
Wow. I hope I don't have to read something as vomit inducing as this on here again, ever.

Janos Biro

I'm willing to translate from English to Brazilian Portuguese.

Janos Biro

I think that "Where THE HELL are we running?" is a very good question. My first PC was a 386, back in 1996. Then we updated to a 486 in 1998 and a Pentium in 2000. It stayed that way until 2010, and I did some amazing things with it. Then my friends started giving me their old PCs whenever they bought a new one, until I really bought one, last year, which is a Pentium 2.9 GHz. Originally it had 2 GB RAM, then I bought another 2 GB RAM to make it 4 GB, and this month I finally bought a GeForce 9800 GT to be able to play some games I already had on Steam. I'm a pretty new consumer of games and computer parts. The only commercial game I bought before 2010 was Neverwinter Nights, and it costed 8 dollars. Now I fear that in some years new games will come that I will want to play but I will need a even better computer, and I will have the money to buy. I wanted to buy a console so I can play with my brother, but still very expensive here in Brasil. And I still prefer playing computer games.

In other words, I could never play those beautiful AAA games because my PC was always shitty. Now I can, and I'm loving it, so don't spoil my fun! :P
I'm willing to translate from English to Brazilian Portuguese.

miguel

Nice gaming Janos! Glad you're sounding just like everybody here! ;)

Click HERE for something totally unrelated!
Working on a RON game!!!!!

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk