Thimbleweed Park, a new old point and click by Ron Gilbert

Started by Trapezoid, Tue 18/11/2014 19:45:44

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Adeel

Quote from: Dualnames on Thu 20/11/2014 06:57:18
I can count more than 100 people I've met in here that could make this game faster and with much less money, and better. They don't even have a working prototype of nothing, they're in it for the money.

I'm glad that someone agrees with me. They are just exploiting their fans. Moreover, I'm tired of reading articles claiming that he's 'reviving the genre'. For the love of God, no, he's not. There are so many indie devs who are FUCKING WASTING their lives and won't let this genre die. I don't need to go any further. From my own community: the names of Dave Gilbert (are they related? - always wanted to ask that question :tongue:), Grim, Dualnames, Mods, Vince Twelve, KodiakBehr, TheJBurger and many others come to my mind. Furthermore, there are many inspiring devs are going to release their games commercially soon or have released already, such as Andail, CaptainD, AprilSkies, etc. Please note that I'm only counting commercial games here because they are exposed to a wider audience. That doesn't mean that I am ignoring free games. They have a soft corner in my heart. Ron Gilbert or not, the genre is very much alive and thriving. Seriously, we don't need a messiah to save us from the impending doom.

While I would love to see it happen, but I personally think that he's too arrogant to use AGS. Creating a new adventure engine isn't going to do Indie Devs any good because they will be reinventing the wheel basically. Furthermore, I don't think they will support their engine (I could be wrong on this part and I hope that I am).

The same old rhetoric of "True Adventure Lovers". If you are really a true lover as you claim, you should invest your own money too, like others have done.

They are here just for the money and the profit. They aren't here to do any favour on us, no matter how much they try to put it like that.

I refrained from commenting here (I've been vocal about this in IRC, though) before because I knew I would get backlash from Ron Gilbert's fans and this thread would escalate quickly. I've commented now only to show my support to Dual's views.

Gurok

So glad Ron Gilbert is reviving the genre again! Adventure games are dead! Only 50 games per year now, etc, etc.
[img]http://7d4iqnx.gif;rWRLUuw.gi

Snarky

Quote from: Adeel S. Ahmed on Thu 20/11/2014 10:47:10
Moreover, I'm tired of reading articles claiming that he's 'reviving the genre'.
I checked out a bunch of articles about this project, and only The Escapist said anything remotely like that. In any case, it's nothing to do with Ron Gilbert. You always get these whenever there's a moderately high profile adventure game in the classic style. It's ridiculous, but I'm sure every AGSer with a commercial release have had some version of it applied to them.

Quote from: Adeel S. Ahmed on Thu 20/11/2014 10:47:10
There are so many indie devs who are FUCKING WASTING their lives and won't let this genre die.
Wow, what a great compliment.

But that's the point, isn't it? Most people who "could do this game" cheaper and quicker (which is pure guesswork without knowing more about how big the game will be, and of course ignores whatever special "Ron Gilbert & Gary Winnick flavor" they will instill) are doing it as a hobby or at well below the going rate for industry professionals (in some cases because they're just starting out and are trying to break into the industry).

For an experienced, professional game designer living in California, $60,000/year is a modest salary. And I don't think it's outrageous for them to say "We'd like to make this game, but we've got to have enough money to pay ourselves a decent wage." That's the whole point of Kickstarter, isn't it? To establish in advance whether there's enough interest in a project that it makes economic sense for the creators. They're not getting rich off this or exploiting anyone. If you don't think the game will be worth 20 bucks, or you don't like the concept enough to support it, then, well... don't. (I haven't, though I might.)

Stupot

I remembered Ron Gilbert tweeted a while ago asking for recommendations for engines.
I found the tweet here: https://twitter.com/grumpygamer/status/496315538285789184 (from August)
He later denied he was looking for an engine to actually use and said he was just seeing the state of the Adventure engine market, but now I guess this was the real reason.

I too think the asking sum seems a bit of a high figure, but I'm not sure 'in it for the money' is the right phrase. We can't really judge whether or not it's worth that amount until we see the final product.  I've pretty much decided I'm going to back.  But if it ends up running out of money and being split into two "episodes" I'll be pretty jizzed off.

miguel

It's just typical of adventure gamers, they have Ron Gilbert making a new-original game with the retro look and the pixels and all but they still complain. The money they ask is the money it takes for them to make a game, plain simple. It's like complaining about P.Jackson's Tolkien adaptations when we get to watch a brand new movie every xmas for 5 euros.
It's never better to sulk in nostalgia for what it was, and there's always the risk that people (even veterans) fail do deliver the same quality/feeling expected but art is a risk in the end.

To me, that screenshot (mood, colours, inventory items, the detective poses, the cigarette) immediately tells me that they have it all together to deliver a great game. Okay, so the rest of the game will be crap, I just don't know. Some parts of MI sucked for me, and I never was really into MM, it's the overall input gamers get from a game that counts, not a interface or the size of a pixel.
Working on a RON game!!!!!

Adeel

Quote from: Snarky on Thu 20/11/2014 11:45:19
Quote from: Adeel S. Ahmed on Thu 20/11/2014 10:47:10
There are so many indie devs who are FUCKING WASTING their lives and won't let this genre die.
Wow, what a great compliment.

You don't get the point, do yo? The genre is alive and thriving because of those indie devs. Indie games aren't limited to Adventure Games. Yet they keep developing them because of their love and respect for this hobby, even though there's more money in other genres such as Platformers, FPS, 'Simulators' ((roll)), etc. This all goes to waste when polished adventure games aren't featured in mainstream magazines and ridiculous games such as "Grass Simulator" are featured prominently.

Snarky

Quote from: Adeel S. Ahmed on Thu 20/11/2014 13:56:54
they keep developing them because of their love and respect for this hobby
To claim that it goes to waste if it doesn't receive as much hype as some other games suggests you don't know what the word "hobby" means.

Dualnames

Honestly, I would give everything I own to play the game that reveals the secret of monkey island, for this i am not willing to give a penny.
Worked on Strangeland, Primordia, Hob's Barrow, The Cat Lady, Mage's Initiation, Until I Have You, Downfall, Hunie Pop, and every game in the Wadjet Eye Games catalogue (porting)

m0ds

I'm sure it'll make a tidy profit, and I'm going to remove/not rant anymore about the money even though it seems a bit excessive (probably just the vague financial breakdown they gave). I'm sure it'll succeed, in a few weeks time the question of money will be well and truly behind them and us... I'd like to play it. But I'll support the after release stage, cos I know they could have that game out on a fraction of that budget if they really wanted.

ps. Thanks Adeel ;)


Adeel

Thank you for your explanation, Mods. I couldn't possibly have explained it in such a good way like you did.

Darth Mandarb

For me it's much more simple...

They know that Kickstarter works (has worked) for industry veterans and they're capitalizing on that.

Sure, they could probably pull this off for a lot less scratch but why should they?  The Kickstarter community absolutely drools over projects like this, which we've seen time and time again, and they almost always get [over]funded.

To me it's just two guys taking full advantage of the benefits of the Kickstarter system.  Sure, I was a little surprised at the funding goal (at first blush) based on the quality of the, very limited, available materials but if you've got the clout to shoot for the larger funding goal I say, why not?

m0ds

Very true.

Art + Coding 63% of $350,000 - $220500 (£140,322) / 2 (cos thats basically Ron and partner pay) $110,250 (£70,275)

Somewhere in the region of £30-35k a year each if it took 2 years perhaps. I suppose that's a fairly normal annual wage for a lot of folks.

Anyway I bet he's a secret millionaire. He's been earning a percentage on multiple games since the 80's. (laugh)

arj0n

Quote from: Darth Mandarb on Thu 20/11/2014 17:13:16
They know that Kickstarter works (has worked) for industry veterans and they're capitalizing on that.
Exactly

If someone is to 'blame', it's (imo) those people who pledge such projects with high amounts of money instead of pledge a lower amount and pledge also other projects that really need it (new/fresh indie devs)...  :-\

Cassiebsg

Guess there's a lot of point&click closet fans with a lot of money to waste out there... (roll)
There are those who believe that life here began out there...

Babar

I don't understand. They're not asking a lot more than what the Double Fine Adventure kickstarter initially was aiming at- "old school adventure game", which I'm fairly certain wouldn't have had more than 3-4 people working on it, maybe more because Tim Schaefer has the infrastructure in place. While I'm not really a fan of the Maniac Mansion aesthetic myself, does that art style REALLY diminish the entire project in everyone's eyes so much that everyone is going on about "They're asking way too much for this!"?

Sure, maybe Ron & Gary COULD have made the entire game in their spare time and released it for free. Sure, maybe they COULD have asked for 10k (or whatever number everyone is going on about), and made the game as a sideproject while earning money otherwise. Sure, maybe even they COULD have put aside everything else, lived off their savings and popped out the game in a year or 2. But why? There some sort of weird honour code going on that I don't know about with "DO IT FOR THE LOVE OF THE GAME, MAN, MONEY MEANS NOTHING"?
The ultimate Professional Amateur

Now, with his very own game: Alien Time Zone

miguel

It's funny how guys here that are in the business of making games for a profit can "bitch" on someone like Ron Gilbert trying to make good money. The man is legendary and a reference but still has to play some kind of mother Theresa role while the world spins on dollars and profit.
Working on a RON game!!!!!

Grim

Quote from: Armageddon on Thu 20/11/2014 07:07:05
Quote from: Dualnames on Thu 20/11/2014 06:57:18
I can count more than 100 people I've met in here that could make this game faster and with much less money, and better. They don't even have a working prototype of nothing, they're in it for the money.
I think it's a bit of a hyperbole to say they're in it just for the money. It does make me sad that 1000% better looking adventure games like To Azmuth aren't getting funded as quickly though.

Thanks for putting To Azimuth on my radar. I just love the look of that game! Sadly, I don't think it will get funded...

Trapezoid

Guys who've been professionals for a long time and don't live in their parents houses know what to value their work at. News at 11!

Think of it this way: You're an industry veteran searching for a job. You turn down anything with less than a $60k salary. That's all it is.

m0ds

Haha :D Yeah a bit of bitching, there's something about money and the videogames industry (and others) I can't quite put my finger on. Maybe it is just normal wages that someone like me still can't fathom at this point in time.

Spoiler


"Ron Gilbert released an adventure game today. What do you mean 'water'?"
[close]

Monsieur OUXX

Independently from Gilbert's intentions, one might observe that he is setting a rather deadly trap for himself:
This screenshot looks exactly like Maniac Mansion, which means people will expect exactly something as brilliant as MM. Except MM isn't that brilliant (or, at least, if you put it in context, it cannot compete anymore with games from the golden age, like DoTT or Sam&Max -- and I'm not even talking about the graphics, I'm just talking about the gameplay, writing and puzzles).
Therefore, if he goes that way, there can only be disappointment -- and if that happens, Gilbert will be definitely "burnt" with the nostalgia fans.

That said, I doubt that this picture would look anything like the project. I cannot imagine even for one second that Gilbert would be so naive. I'm sure his team have something up their sleeve.
 

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