Thimbleweed Park, a new old point and click by Ron Gilbert

Snarky · Tue 22/09/2015 17:10:20

Quote from: Monsieur OUXX on Tue 22/09/2015 16:01:23
However AGS does all the systems you mentionned except XBox (and there's even a half-finished converter to XBox).

Not very well or very easily. I'm actually not convinced that it would be quicker for him to learn AGS, work within its limitations and deal with all the tedium (and dev builds) it would take to port the game to all those platforms than it is for him to slap together his own engine from parts he already had lying around.

Besides, the last Ron Gilbert blog post was all about the benefits of automating processes (like building, or testing, or updating resources), which AGS is spectacularly bad at. And that's without even getting into all the other problems with using AGS for commercial releases (e.g. the infamous save game problem). Face it, AGS just isn't fit for purpose for a professional team that isn't already steeped in it (because that was not the task it was originally designed for). Plus, he has specific requirements that AGS doesn't offer (e.g. smoothly changing character tinting, composing character animations from multiple parts) and that would be more work to implement in AGS than in his own engine.

There could be other engines that would be more suitable, but he did review a bunch and decided he wasn't happy with any of them. (Another issue, I believe, is that he's a big Mac guy and wants tools that run on Mac, which not all of them do.)

I'm generally in favor of not reinventing the wheel, but with an experienced engine programmer like Gilbert it just doesn't seem like a big deal: It's probably more crucial that the tools support their preferred workflow and pipelines than the few weeks he spent putting together the core functionality before they could really start working. In the end they might gain more than they "waste".

Myinah · Wed 07/10/2015 22:40:42

I don't know if you guys saw the latest blog where Ron introduces the new team members.

I have been in two minds whether or not to post here but I did want to share the news that I've been hired as the new writer. It's really exciting and I wouldn't have this job if it wasn't for AGS, the wonderful community, and my dev partner Sox (droppedmonoclegames). Most people here probably wouldn't know my name or Twitter handle as its different to my forum one but yeah. Just thought I would share the news.

Mandle · Wed 07/10/2015 23:36:14

Myinah, that is amazing news and HUGE congratulations!!!

Thank's for sharing this news with us. It's very inspirational!

Here's the relevant part from the blog for people who don't like to click too much:

Spoiler

Lauren founded Dropped Monocle Games with her friend Sox Brooker in 2012. While discussing their love of point and click adventure games after an evening of DnD, and probably too much cider, they decided they could totally make a game! How hard can it be? This led to the creation of a "charmingly crap" point and click called Witchy Woo. In spite of its "flaws" (although it still won the game jam), people seemed to like her writing, so they kept doing it and whipped up a couple more games, including another jam winner, Mess Goblins, and Goatherd and the Gods, nominated for several AGS awards. You can follow her on Twitter at @boosegoose.

[close]

(Oops, sorry. I guess you had to click anyway...)

selmiak · Wed 07/10/2015 23:49:30

congrats on that Myinah, that's really exciting!!!

On a sidenot, in the newest podcast episode Ron Gilbert mentions he wants to open source the adventure game engine he is writing for Thimbleweed Park, but the game itself will not be opensourced...

Myinah · Thu 08/10/2015 00:01:43

Thanks guys! I haven't chatted with him about the engine open sourcing but it would be interesting. I do like the dialog syntax he has created. It's pretty refined and I was able to pick it up with some ease as a rather sub par programmer. Fingers crossed he does release it as an open source project because I think it will be a slick dev tool. Although Sox and I will continue to develop on AGS for the foreseeable future unless something amazing takes its place. We are putting together the foundation for our first full length release as we speak!

Stupot · Thu 08/10/2015 00:47:55

Cracking news, Myinah.
I hope you will keep us up to date (no spoilers of course).
Best of luck with everything.

Mandle · Thu 08/10/2015 01:22:11

I'm really interested in hearing how you found out about the job opening and especially what the interview process was like...

I gather from the blog that your works so far were looked at. Was there anything else you had to do like write an example scene you were given etc? Were official qualifications required? What kind of questions were you asked? Was there anything unusual or weird about the process (I know Ron has quite an evil sense of humour)?

I totally understand if you are not allowed to talk about some or all of these points, or just do not feel comfortable talking about it. If you can however I'm sure it would be a great read for the community!

Myinah · Thu 08/10/2015 10:01:17

Sure. I don't think Ron will mind me talking about the hiring stuff. I'm not able to talk about the game much for obvious reasons, but Ron is a great guy so I don't see any reason why I couldn't.

I found out about the job through a game dev group for women on Facebook. Jenn Sandercock the new programmer posted about the search for a writer and I pretty much screamed and ran to my laptop to send Ron a message through the contact form on the Thimbleweed website. It was a basic cover letter explaining my experience and linking to my games. No CV or anything.

Ron was at Gamescom when this kicked off so it took a while for him to respond, but when he got back he set us a writing assignment. I don't think I have ever been more nervous writing something, or had a worse case of writers block. I was convinced I wouldn't get it. A month or two later when I got the message I had been successful I actually felt faint and had to lie down. I had worked so hard preparing myself for failure that I had not even slightly prepared myself for the scenario where I got the job.

I don't think Ron asked me many questions. We didn't really talk much until after I got the job. He does have a wicked sense of humour though and it was requested we appeal to it in the writing challenge. Those of you who have played my games may be aware I have a slightly dark sense of humour myself. Of my own stupid jokes the thing that makes me laugh out loud every time I play it is in Witchy Woo.

Spoiler

When you add fairy dust to the cauldron and she accidentally commits fairy genocide. The screams are what really tickle me.

[close]

With regard to the qualifications thing I actually think they may have talked about this in the most recent podcast. They definitely don't look for degrees or specific qualifications. Gary has a degree in business or something? They said there were no game design courses in their day and that they are entirely self taught. To them a person with a qualification isn't more or less desirable than a person who is self taught.

I have no academic qualifications beyond my AS levels. I got sick during my A Level year with my autoimmune disease and flared for maybe 2 years which meant I missed going to university. I never went back to get more qualifications because I was too old to get them for free by that point, so I just went into full time work when I could. When my illness flared again and I lost my job it was worse than it had ever been so I needed something to keep me from losing my mind to boredom. AGS was a lifesaver for me. Even if it wasn't making money it was keeping me busy, giving me writing and development experience and making my life happier. In the end it gave me the experience I needed for this job. I was also doing freelance copy but AGS is the thing that helped me write dialog and understand programming.

So basically I think I got this job because I have a dark sense of humour, I was in the right dev group at the right time, and I had already written a bunch of comedy point and clicks. I also think finishing our games was a big factor. It's very easy to start a game, but finishing one isn't. If we hadn't finished the games I wouldn't have had anything in my portfolio. So even though they may not be the most polished amazing games, they are at least complete.

I think that answered most things?

Mandle · Thu 08/10/2015 11:07:27

Thanks for the info...amazing read!

Snarky · Thu 08/10/2015 11:38:57

Yes, congrats Myinah, and hope you'll enjoy the job! It's great that there'll be AGS talent behind this title. The way Gilbert and Winick are building up the team and raising the quality level on the stuff they're previewing is going a long way to address some of the concerns I had at the start of the project; I'm happy I ended up backing it.

Dropped Monocle Games · Thu 08/10/2015 12:38:27

Yeah well.... Ron is following me on Twitter. so

I am pretty sure that your humor and way of writing is what helped you get the job.

now stop showing off and get to work on the story for our next game

Monsieur OUXX · Thu 08/10/2015 15:29:57

Wow, congrats.

Cassiebsg · Thu 08/10/2015 19:06:26

Congrats and thanks for sharing the story!

LostTrainDude · Thu 08/10/2015 21:45:38

I actually dropped my own monocle when I read the news on the Thimbleweed Park blog

Congratulations, really

I've always found Dropped Monocle's games to be great!

Thanks a lot for sharing!

[delete} · Thu 03/03/2016 23:29:17

Mr Ferrari still has the deluxe paint vibes. He's really an ace!

Mandle · Fri 04/03/2016 00:36:35

Quote from: Otterina on Thu 03/03/2016 23:29:17
Their latest Special Agent Ray trailer looks so very promising and funny.

That does look amazing! Nitpick: I'm not quite sure how I feel about the "bloated and pixelated" line though. On the one hand it is funny, but on the other hand it kinda feels like too much of a wink to the player. 4th wall breaking is a very delicate business I feel: Overstep just a little and you can break immersion completely.

Just my opinion: The game seems to have a lovely Twin Peaks feel, so now that's two games I know of coming out this year that have that in common: Interesting, considering the new series is coming out soon too!

Snarky · Fri 04/03/2016 16:03:04

I didn't think the trailer was very good, to tell the truth. The rhythm seemed way off, and the voiceover, music and picture often seemed to clash. I'm not sure whether that's the final voice of Ray or just a temp track, but the actor didn't really sound professional - stumbling over her words and not conveying much in terms of emotion or atmosphere - and the recording quality wasn't great, either. Mind you, it would be difficult to make that whole monologue flow properly: it tried way too hard to cram in too many details without offering a point of entry (i.e. why is she telling us this?).

Also, I'm not keen on the post-processing effects on the pixel art (I noticed heat shimmer and "old film" scratches and hair); I hope that's just for the video and not in the game itself. And I can see why: it did feel rather static.

Most of this has more to do with the art of cutting a trailer than with the game itself, which might be great. And for those who haven't followed the development, I can see how the jump in production values from the Kickstarter campaign would be impressive. But the trailer itself is rather unimpressive, IMO.

Danvzare · Fri 04/03/2016 16:18:29

Quote from: Snarky on Fri 04/03/2016 16:03:04
I didn't think the trailer was very good, to tell the truth. The rhythm seemed way off, and the voiceover, music and picture often seemed to clash. I'm not sure whether that's the final voice of Ray or just a temp track, but the actor didn't really sound professional - stumbling over her words and not conveying much in terms of emotion or atmosphere - and the recording quality wasn't great, either. Mind you, it would be difficult to make that whole monologue flow properly: it tried way too hard to cram in too many details without offering a point of entry (i.e. why is she telling us this?).

Also, I'm not keen on the post-processing effects on the pixel art (I noticed heat shimmer and "old film" scratches and hair); I hope that's just for the video and not in the game itself. And I can see why: it did feel rather static.

Most of this has more to do with the art of cutting a trailer than with the game itself, which might be great. And for those who haven't followed the development, I can see how the jump in production values from the Kickstarter campaign would be impressive. But the trailer itself is rather unimpressive, IMO.

Having just watched the trailer myself. I agree that it wasn't exactly a great trailer, it was nice, but not great. I'm still very much looking forward to the game though.
And while I wholeheartedly disagree about the post-processing effects on the pixel art (I rather liked those), I must agree with what you said about the voiceover. That voice actor is kind of... underwhelming.

Myinah · Wed 23/03/2016 00:23:38

Thimbleweed Park had a great reception at GDC and Ron wrote a great post about it linking to some of the articles written about the game.

It's really exciting seeing it all come together. I don't think you can please everyone but honestly the art, music, puzzles, and humour are all there.

I've also noticed a few people seemed to think Ray was basically going to be Scully, which she really really isn't, and I think that's why some people were surprised by her voice. I think it colours people's expectations of the character somewhat even before they've played the game.

Snarky · Wed 23/03/2016 07:53:08

No, sorry. Irrespective of the character, it's just not a very good performance. It's probably partly the way the actor is trying to do a "hard-boiled" voice, but you also have several stumbles and half-swallowed syllables that just don't sound professional. E.g. in the first sentence, she doesn't enunciate "were prepared" properly, and then when she gets to "I arrived" it comes out more like "I 'rive'". I don't think anyone is able to follow her rushing through "a victim of the violence we bring on each other in pursuit of our dreams turned to nightmare" on first listen, but the writing is just as much to blame for that. But then next you get "junior agent Reyes" all slurred together as well, and there's no excuse for that, unless it's that it's just way too much monologue in way too short a time.