Retro->Painted Castle wall

Started by notid1, Thu 26/02/2015 22:45:30

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notid1

Hello!

I've been hacking on an adventure game for the past 6 months called "Tick's Tales - A Knight to Remember." It's a modernized take on a retro-styled adventure.


It's actually not an AGS game, but I'm popping in because I've recently discovered Zyndikate's artwork. Wow! I was impressed with the work it that I was inspired to repaint one of my screens using his one of his color palettes and technique, to learn. Here's my WIP so far:



I decided to change the point of view some too, so I took part of the scene above.

I'm happy with this result so far. The palette that I lifted makes it really easy to shade. The one area I'm not so stoked on so far is the castle wall. My big area of concern is that castle wall. It's obviously half-done, but something doesn't feel right about it, even now. As if it doesn't interact with the environment at all, and is just pasted there. In the spirit of learning, I thought I'd come here and ask for feedback on this work in progress. Any ideas as to what can improve the integration of the various components?

Thanks a lot!

Mandle

I think a reason the wall feels kinda just "plunked down" in the scene is the way it connects with the ground. If you look at real walls of this type the bottom block does not come flush with the ground. The blocks and the entire wall wall continue down under the ground (otherwise it would be a bit too easy to just dig under and get inside). Also, after the wall has been there for some time wind, rain, and other natural forces are going to push earth up against the wall at its base or erode earth away. So the way the earth connects with the wall will end up more undulating instead of flat. Plants will also start to grow up the wall just as they grow up and over rocks in nature.

Just some stuff I noticed straight away anyways: But NICE PICTURE so far! ;-D

notid1

Quote from: Mandle on Fri 27/02/2015 05:19:33
I think a reason the wall feels kinda just "plunked down" in the scene is the way it connects with the ground. If you look at real walls of this type the bottom block does not come flush with the ground. The blocks and the entire wall wall continue down under the ground (otherwise it would be a bit too easy to just dig under and get inside). Also, after the wall has been there for some time wind, rain, and other natural forces are going to push earth up against the wall at its base or erode earth away. So the way the earth connects with the wall will end up more undulating instead of flat. Plants will also start to grow up the wall just as they grow up and over rocks in nature.

Just some stuff I noticed straight away anyways: But NICE PICTURE so far! ;-D

Yeah, that makes sense. Thanks for the feedback. I haven't really done much with the ground yet, as grass is really difficult for me. It's hard to give the illusion of grass/dirt without drawing every blade. Still figuring that out. Any tips or recommendations would be helpful!

Here's where it's at now.




Synthetique

I had some trouble putting it into words, so i butchered your image instead. Just a tiny idea that might inspire you.

notid1

Synthetique,

The grass against the wall looks really good. That does help! Thanks.

One thing that I've struggled with is when I tried to apply texturing like that to the whole image it just becomes a mess. Maybe the solution is to only apply it selectively. I'm trying to avoid having a static sea of green for my grass. Any thoughts on that?

Thanks again.

Synthetique

Quote from: notid1 on Fri 27/02/2015 22:57:20
Synthetique,

The grass against the wall looks really good. That does help! Thanks.

One thing that I've struggled with is when I tried to apply texturing like that to the whole image it just becomes a mess. Maybe the solution is to only apply it selectively. I'm trying to avoid having a static sea of green for my grass. Any thoughts on that?

Thanks again.

I'm having some trouble visualizing what you mean, but i'd like to help when I understand what you mean ^^

notid1

I think I've figured it out how better to describe the problem with the grass. No good looking solution yet.

The problem that I'm trying to solve is that it seems like a sea of green, and it leaves it looking like things are just sort of pasted on top. At first I was thinking it was about the texture of the grass, and your example really helped. But if you apply that kind of technique to the whole image it becomes a confusing mess with thousands of random looking blades of grass all fighting for your attention. I realized the real problem is that the ground underneath the grass really has no form to it. It's a totally flat plane, so any kind of texturing you try to do will seem artificial. I decided that the ground itself needs some small amount of hills and variation, before trying to texture the grass on top of it. It'll also give better insight into making the texturing make logical sense, i.e., when to use darker or lighter colors for blades.

Here's where I'm at. So this doesn't look very good yet, it might even be a step backwards. But even this makes the interaction between the left side of the castle look more natural, because it's not a straight 90 degree angle. If I can get the ground to have some realistic form to it, I'm sure the grass will come much more naturally. Hopefully this helps illustrate what I'm trying to solve. Any pointers on how to do this idea right?




For reference, I've been using these two beautiful images that Zyndikate did as my inspiration.
http://www.danielthomas.se/upload/pics/2012-07.png
http://www.danielthomas.se/upload/pics/bgBlitz2011-01.png

Synthetique

#7
Ah I understand now. Try and imagine that you are painting small hills, to help you with the shading. Grass is usually a sea of very subtle hills/bumps.
And if you look at the reference pics, you can see that there's a "sea of green" but thanks to having grass strands where the green meets something else, it looks nice. Also shaping the edges of any dropped shadows into strands helps a lot. Like in this example. I realise that it's not the most beautiful grass but I just wanted to show what I mean. :)


Maybe it gives you some ideas.

Cassiebsg

Actually I have more of a problem with the wall it self, the way you drawn it seems very "thin"... like it's only 30-40cm wide. That isn't a realistic depth for such a wall. So my eyes are telling me it's a fake wall. (wtf)

Here's a few googled pics to serve you as inspiration:
Spoiler





Just google for castle walls for more inspiration and references. ;)
[close]

There are those who believe that life here began out there...

notid1

That's great help. I'll update it and see what you guys think.

Mandle

Hahaha Cassie...I love the random dude sitting on the wall in the background in the first image... (laugh)

And yeah, Cassie is right. I would even expand on it a bit by noting that your wall is only one layer of blocks thick. This would make it very easy to just push over. It needs a second/third layer of blocks behind the first which do not line up with the other layers.

As the picture is now the ramparts on the top of the wall make no logical sense. The reason for the []_[]_[] shape of a castle wall is so that archers have a block to hide behind while loading arrows, and then duck out to fire them in the spaces inbetween. With your wall there is no place for them to stand. So the tunnel part of the wall should be 2-3 blocks deep while the ramparts should remain one block deep as they are now. This will create the feel that there is the top of the thicker wall that the archers can stand on.

Also, two of the blocks on the left-hand side of the tunnel are cut very short. The builders would not have blocks this short. In fact, the arch probably needs proper arch-blocks including the keystone at the top, if you want to be completely realistic.

The contours you have added to the grass look great to me. Now if you incorporate the other advice about grass in this thread it should look perfect.

Getting better all the time though! Great work!

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