Post production paintovers to Sketchup renders

Started by Quintaros, Sun 01/03/2015 16:59:00

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Quintaros

I've been modeling my game setting in Sketchup and I really like the sense of geography it instills and the flexibility it provides for tweaking compositions.






I'm trying to do some work in Paint Shop after rendering to combine photographed elements and to soften some of the textures.  Does this style work?  Any suggestions or paintovers are welcome.


Here is an example of an interior as well:



Eric

Try Kerkythea. It's free, and will give you better renders than Sketchup alone.

Kasander

+1 for Kerkythea (and it has a cool name, too!).

I like what you've shown here, Quintaros. That view from above makes me want to explore the town and find out what kind of adventure/mystery is hiding out there. I'd surely like to see it finished - with textures, details, all the bells and whistles :)

cat

No idea about modeling but... wow, Quintaros, where have you been hiding the last 5 years or so?

Cassiebsg

I've figure what's been bothering me about these pictures since yesterday, and it's the black outlines mostly.
Specially on the view from above. It makes those houses and stuff look fake and out of place. You might want to thin them down (if possible) or completely get rid of them.
Adding shadows would also make your pictures more real. Specially noticeable in the interior screen.

Otherwise great pics! Looking forward to see where you take them. :-D
There are those who believe that life here began out there...

Quintaros

I hadn't heard of Kerkythea before so thanks for the recommendation, Eric.  Although I like Sketchup's feature for lighting exteriors with the sun, I wasn't sure how to create lighting for the interiors and this ought to help. 

The aerial view is just an overview of the unfinished Sketchup model and isn't intended as in-game background so I'd made no effort to clean up the heavy lines.  The second two images are closer to what I have in mind for outlines.

Cat, I think I had a hard time balancing the AGS hobby with the rest of life.   I never lost interest exactly but I started spending less and less time working on my game and visiting these boards until I finally felt that that part of my life had passed.  And that made me sad.  I still have a tremendous amount of fondness for this hobby and its community so now I'm trying to rebalance my life so that it can be a part of it.


Frikker

how did you draw the 3d terrain in the first pic as all i have ever done in sketchup is geometric shapes....?
keep up the good work :) 8-)

Monsieur OUXX

Quintaros, about your original question:
I don't think the style works very well in its current state.
--> I'm not talking about your Sketchup scenes. They're great.
--> I'm not talking either about the idea of painting over Sketchup renderings. That's a good idea, it has been seen before.

But in my opinion you should find a way to make the paint over less shy: at the moment it looks only like you (badly) painted over the shading. By "badly", I only mean that you cannot hope replacing the shading "as is". You'll never do as good as the Sketchup renderer.
You need to find your own style, even if it means losing details or taking bold decisions.
For example, you could get your inspiration from Nelly cootalot : sharp, thin black lines, and loose colouring. That's just one possible example, of course.
I'm pretty sure that you could Photoshop your rendered scènes to separate the black lines from the rest, and then apply some interesting filters. You could probably even automate that with a script, but I'm getting carried away ;)
 

Quintaros

Quote from: Frikker on Mon 02/03/2015 23:59:23
how did you draw the 3d terrain in the first pic as all i have ever done in sketchup is geometric shapes....?


Sketchup does have the ability to pull terrain from satellite information.  Even if you're modelling a fictional location, you may be able to find a good surrogate for your desired terrain.

Quote from: Monsieur OUXX on Tue 03/03/2015 11:04:46
...
But in my opinion you should find a way to make the paint over less shy:...
You need to find your own style, even if it means losing details or taking bold decisions.

Point taken.  I`ll spend some more time with these and repost some updates.

WRK

Good Evening

Surely I'm not that experienced in the process of game-making
(three titles forever stuck at "almost finished" stage,
that's also the reason I'm now doing AGS game by myself
so it could actually come out... sorry, that's another story)
but I've done my share of concept art and storyboarding
so let me share some opinions.

First of all, good job at mastering Sketchup (that alone
is a impressive thing for me, cause this skill is
unfortunatly too occult for me to acquire). I can see
and honour the time and effort You put in those frames.

That being said...

In my humble opinion these frames lack something of a soul.
I understand that those are sketch-renders without
paint-over, yet there is something in composition and framing
that's too generic. Let's take picture with a ship for example.
Most of that picture is actually sea and sand, "crushing"
(composition-wise) the ship and the port area which makes
that picture not that interesting. It looks like You have
modeled Your scenery and THEN started looking for a frame.

Start with a sketch. On paper. Think about "what's that
frame about". Does it tells a story? What kind of feeling
or atmosphere you want to express. Ask yourself
"why I'm showing it like that".

"Cause it looks good/nice/awesome" is not really an answer.
"Cause I want to show the ship, sea and port area" is
actually not an answer either. You can show it all in
a million ways, so why this one?

Personally I think this may be a 3D software thing,
since it doesn't put any restrictions/boundries on
the creator. Just look at cinematic difference of
sci-fi movies from 80's (or even earlier) and computer
made sci-fi movies today with obligatory fly over futuristic
city, something huge hovering above it, people staring in the sky,
all of the contemporary movies suffer from no restrictions,
and in a weird way since they can do eveything in a computer
they all end up looking the same (with some notable exceptions).

Sketch on paper gives you that boundries back.

Ahhh... sorry, I've got lost in my own thoughts.
Back to the composition.

Adventure games are (mostly) visual medium, so steal and learn
from other visual mediums, cinema, comicbooks, paintings.
And most important, study Stanley Kubrick. Even if you're
not a fan of symmetry, there's a lot everyone can larn
from his composition, cause everything matters. Things
relate to each other and you can tell that using composition.

Make multiple frames of the same picture. See how it
works with horizon high and low, maybe open space
and sky will help to tell "this is seaport, smell it". :)
Try puting ship in front of the sea, if it's a shipwreck
tell us in that frame "it's the cruel sea that made that wreck".
Or maybe it's a new ship, then if you will have sea and sky
as a background it will show some of "adventures that
wait for that ship". Because it's not only the objects
that tell the story, it's also their relations to each other
and their composition.

And don't fill the wireframe shapes. Make them very light,
almost transparent and paint all over them. They are
here only for the refference, but it's You who actually paints.

If my words came harsh I'm sorry. Please consider this
as a friendly and sincere discussion and not hating/trolling.

Pax

Snarky

Quintaros!! Good to have you back, man! ;-D

I have to say I agree with Ouxx. The models are nice, but the finish is a bit lacking. Part of the problem, I think, is that you're following the renders too faithfully. You're not really adding any detail in your painting (apart from that bush), so even if we were to see it as just a painting, it wouldn't be a painting of a place, but a painting of a pretty simple 3D model of a place. At that point, you might as well just use the 3D model directly, rendered with something like Kerkythea. (I think Rogue State, for example, uses Sketchup-modeled backgrounds, rendered with very little Photoshop editing.)

If you're going to paint on top, I would just use the 3D renders as an underlying sketch, and paint it all freehand. And I'd try to be more realistic, particularly in giving texture and variation to objects and surfaces. The waves and sand are a good start, but the (I assume) grass looks like concrete painted green, while the concrete looks like... well, like a render. Think bricks, think cobblestones, think gravel, think undulations in the lawn, think a footpath, think chipped corners, think marks from the high-tide waterline... Think sparkling dew (or sea spray) where the sun hits. If we are to believe in this as a real space, you need to at least suggest that it's not just a collection of polygons.

Finally, do you need this high a resolution? Especially if you decide you're painting the backgrounds, they'd benefit - IMO - from being scaled down, as they are a bit too simplistic to work in high-res.

All that said, I think this is a promising start. It just needs a bit more TLC before it begins to "work." WRK does perhaps have a point about the compositions (though I wonder if he was seeing the images cut off: I had to "view image" to see the whole thing - you really should scale them down!), but I think with some cropping/reframing they wouldn't be too bad. One small thing I would change there is to nudge the POV so you don't have the edge of the wall head-on.

WRK

> though I wonder if he was seeing the images cut off

Yikes! You're absolutly right, I didn't saw whole image.
My apologies. In that case, please consider my earlier
comment as ramblings of a lunatic old man who didn't
drank his morning coffe.

Quintaros

WRK, thank you for your detailed reply.  Despite not having seen the entire composition when you wrote it, much of it is still apt.  You're correct that the model was built before the framing was chosen.  The contraint of having a constant layout appealed to me but it was a bit of a double edged sword when it came time for camera placement.  I feel the horizon line is too high and the stairs down to the boat are unclear as a path.  I agree the image is not conveying much of a story or mood...  I think that will be more clear in game with characters and objects present.

Snarky, I definitely agree with you on the grass and concrete... and overall uniformness of surfaces.  I'm not sure about the resolution.  As soon as I viewed this thread on my work computer I started to have doubts.  I think at least for the purposes of posting updates I'll do some reduction.

Mandle

Quote from: WRK on Wed 04/03/2015 11:09:56
Just look at cinematic difference of
sci-fi movies from 80's (or even earlier) and computer
made sci-fi movies today with obligatory fly over futuristic
city, something huge hovering above it, people staring in the sky,
all of the contemporary movies suffer from no restrictions,
and in a weird way since they can do eveything in a computer
they all end up looking the same (with some notable exceptions).

This is BRILLIANTLY PUT!!!

I would much rather look at the perfectly framed matte paintings (real paint on glass) of the Dagobar swamp:

Spoiler
[close]

Than zoom all over the place through it in CGI, which is what most directors will do now. Hell, they have spent all the money on getting every texture on every vine just right so you gotta show off the goods right?

But wait, wasn't the scene supposed to be just a moody shot of a dismal swamp, giving you a feel for the place and letting your imagination fill in the rest of what you can't see? Like, maintaining some mystery?

Not these days! Michael Bay would laugh in your face if you suggested the camera could just slow down for a moment or even (gasp) stop dead still to frame a shot as the mood of the film implies:

To hell with that! Why frame a shot when the CGI gives you unlimited movement for the same dollars per frame of film???

And yeah, sorry for rambling on a bit here with my own personal gripes, but I think about 5% of what I said is relevant to the thread... :P

Baron

No way!  Is this what I think it is.... :shocked:



Quintaros old buddy, you are one dogged developer! ;-D  Welcome back, and I hope this project finally sees fruition.  Good luck!

Eric

Wait a minute...I thought that green dome looked familiar....

Monsieur OUXX

 

Quintaros



So here is an edit... well basically a new render from a different angle that hopefully is a better composition with more clear pathways.  The buildings still require bit of work at the modelling level to add more windows and give a hint of an interior. I experimented with render without any linework whatsoever but I think I prefer some edge indication at a reduced opacity. I'm happier with the trees and grass but am struggling a bit with the edge of the water on the beach. Not finished but as far as I'm going to get with it this weekend.

Kasander

Holy shit! Quintaros, are you really doing THIS!? 8-0 Can't believe I didin't recognize it at first glance! (laugh) You've just made my day, man. Whatever you're gonna do with it, do it!

Wow. I must say as a die-hard fan of the original I'm very enthusiastic about this project.

That new camera angle does look better. You could move 'the camera' a bit further to the left so the yacht is a bit more visible, but I guess it looks more dynamic the way it is now! Carry on, man!   

Be seeing you! 8-)

Mandle


Quintaros

#20
There will be penny-farthings, and mini-mokes, and Alouette 2s... and all of the other iconic staples of the series. 

Snarky

So it's The Prisoner? (Never seen it, but a quick gimgle - that's short for "to google image something," all the cool kids use it - seems to confirm.) Cool!

The latest version looks much better. A bit of texture helps immensely.  Is it deliberate that the ship is embedded into the dock?

Mandle

#22
Quote from: Snarky on Sun 15/03/2015 11:46:08
So it's The Prisoner? (Never seen it

It seems to be exactly that, and you should!!!

There's just something about that series that appeals (in my opinion) to the hearts of adventure gamers...

Spoilers:
Spoiler
A British secret agent gets mad and resigns. We don't know why: it all happens in the opening credits(In what I consider a perfect study for anyone making an intro to a game). He goes home and gets gassed. He passes out and wakes up in The Village: A rather pleasant retirement home/concentration camp for ex-spies. Rather pleasant that is unless you still had a bit of a life to go back to. Well, forget that! There are giant bubble sentries that will encase you in their innards if you test the perimeters, and a whole bunch of Number Twos (this is a '70's British show so the obvious humour here does not apply) to try to break you to give up the INFORMATION!!! Add all this to a beautiful resort where people kick back riding penny-farthings, play chess on seaside balconies against ex-adversaries, and view daily circus parades on the hour.

I AM NOT A NUMBER...

I AM A FREE MAN!!!
[close]

Kasander

Once upon a time this show made me buy a lava lamp. True story (laugh)

It's a perfect material to adapt for adventure game. So many story and gameplay ideas. Yeah, I'd love to play as a Number. Keep it up, Quintaros! :)

Quintaros

I'm really happy that people recognize it and are enthusiastic about a game version.  I'm making the game to be self contained so that one need not have seen the series to follow the game... But hopefully anyone who enjoyed the game would be turned on to the series.

And yes, Snarky, the boat is supposed to be built into the shore so I'm glad that came across.

Eric

There were actually a number of early text adventure adaptations of the game. One of which you could win by simply refusing to play!

Looking forward to this one!

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