Alternative Knowledge

[LimpingFish]

And I'm trying to convince you all of what I know to be true...

You're not trying to educate, you're trying to convert non-believers to your faith. Much like any religion, truth has no place here.

[monkey424]

"Of course by the time this photo was taken 16 days later, a lot of wreckage had already been hauled away"

No. That is taken out of context. Read my analysis. The ambulance photo was taken on 9/11, because building 7 was still standing when the photo was taken.

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Your chart in the PDF you refer to implies that the pile of rubble should be accurate and symmetric around the spot where tower stood - but that is a questionable assumption.

I see no evidence that the building toppled or favoured any one direction to fall. The building clearly falls symmetrically and radially. See photos in my analysis. And then the rubble at ground zero is simply not there - anywhere. The photo you attached is looking from WTC3 (or where WTC3 should be) - where did that building go?

FYI - The top of WTC2 started to topple (rotate) but appeared to stop rotating at some point, therefore defying the law of conservation of angular momentum - just one of the many laws of physics broken that day.

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I just want to let you guys know I hold no animosity towards any of you. It has been quite a difficult experience for me but I still love you guys. I have always thought the guys here on AGS are some of the smartest, funniest, talented, diverse and creative people. We share a love for adventure games at the end of the day, which means we're not too different. At the risk of sounding like a sissy girly-man, AGS will always hold a place in my heart.

Having said that, you guys really do bring my piss to a boil!!

Someone started another thread on the 'psychology of conspiracy theories'. I think a study of the psychology of consensus is more interesting and relevant. Just watch this short video:

[embed=425,349]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TYIh4MkcfJA[/embed]

The destructive mechanism was whatever turned the buildings to dust. Kinetic energy can't do this. Directed energy can. Directed energy doesn't just mean focused geographically. Directed can also mean instructed - i.e. energy was instructed to do something other than what it usually does. Of course, we haven't really got into the meat of this subject yet. It is more or less pointless until one has understood that the implied destructive mechanism of a gravity driven collapse is entirely fictional. I say implied because it has not been endorsed or demonstrated by the government body responsible for explaining what happened. They have avoided this. The official story persists simply due to a psychological mechanism which perpetuates a perceived, superficial understanding of what happened.

Does anyone get this? NIST contractors did not explain what happened. Their report was fraudulent, which was why Judy Wood sued them for science fraud.

As a prerequisite, one needs to have a good solid understanding or appreciation of the evidence.

One needs to have a good understanding of the sheer volume of dust. It is obvious that most of the building was reduced to dust - including steel, because we just don't see it in the remains. Unless you believe the steel was all shipped to China before the day's end, you have to accept the steel just wasn't there.

One needs to appreciate the fineness of the dust - much finer than sand, or even silt and clay size particles. This dust is so fine it floats. Pulverisation (kinetic energy) does not create this size dust.

The destructive mechanism can't be due to gravity alone because conservation of energy does not reconcile with the evidence. In other words, you need a lot more energy to generate this volume and fineness of dust.

Even if you ignore the dust aspect, the law of conservation of energy is also defied just trying to keep the progressive collapse going. It is theoretically and practically impossible. Here's a short video of someone trying to replicate the progressive or 'pancake' model of collapse. It doesn't work. More energy is needed.

[embed=425,349]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJNzaMRsN00[/embed]

Anyway, I'm off on holidays tomorrow. Catch you guys later.

[Mandle]

“Of course by the time this photo was taken 16 days later, a lot of wreckage had already been hauled away”

No. That is taken out of context. Read my analysis. The ambulance photo was taken on 9/11, because building 7 was still standing when the photo was taken.

That quote was talking about a different photo.

[Snarky]

Having said that, you guys really do bring my piss to a boil!!

I'm glad to hear it, because the feeling is definitely mutual.

I wrote a longer post, but then I remembered that anything that perpetuates the "discussion" merely plays into the hands of the fringe theorists, so I'll just sum it up: Bullshit.

[Jack]

Frankly, monkey #424, I don't think you are helping the truth at all by posting in this format. I haven't read everything you posted here (because it pisses me off when I am trying to read the thread and it keeps jumping around because of 30 images loading), but from what I've seen, the things you post are highly circumstantial. An image of an ambulance that mostly survived being close to a controlled demolition is not proof of anything. You know this, or you should.

There are a lot of things about 9/11 that don't fit the official account, and while almost none of these can be taken as proof on their own, taken together they should at least suggest that the official account is a blatant lie. But taking these bits of surviving evidence and running off to construct wild theories is not helping anyone. In fact, as you should be able to see, it is doing the opposite. The no planes and DEW theories, even if true, are utterly fantastical. They are too fantastical to believe without very much more proof than we have now. I am in actuality convinced that they are just more trash dumped on the internet to prevent people from really looking into 9/11. They are low-hanging fruit for the wilfully ignorant to feel smart as they "debunk" it.

So if you really care about the truth I suggest you find something very much more concrete than what you are spreading now. And keep in mind that even if some people see it happening before their eyes, they will refuse to believe it, because of its implications.

(all that coordination and failures, apparently no one told them to just set a couple of random fires to get a perfect controlled demolition)

[Danvzare]

I just want to let you guys know I hold no animosity towards any of you. It has been quite a difficult experience for me but I still love you guys. I have always thought the guys here on AGS are some of the smartest, funniest, talented, diverse and creative people. We share a love for adventure games at the end of the day, which means we're not too different. At the risk of sounding like a sissy girly-man, AGS will always hold a place in my heart.

Aww. How sweet.
And I don't know about everyone else here, but that's generally been my feelings as well.
No matter how heated this thread gets, we're all still just AGSers.

I am in actuality convinced that they are just more trash dumped on the internet to prevent people from really looking into 9/11. They are low-hanging fruit for the wilfully ignorant to feel smart as they "debunk" it.

This is actually something I can believe.
And I wouldn't be surprised if it was true about something that's never been mentioned on this thread simply because of that reason.

[NickyNyce]

So truthers that post crazy and ridiculous theories about 911 are actually the government pretending to be truthers?

Wow...the plot thickens.

[Jack]

So truthers that post crazy and ridiculous throeries about 911 are actually the government pretending to be truthers?

Yes, you have successfully decoded the hidden message in the post where I in no way suggested that. It's totally impossible for "truthers" to be misled. Or no, they're all UFOs. Whatever gets you through.

Oh, wait. I did actually say that I think this was probably disinformation. That must mean that everyone who believes it is a government agent, if someone replaced your brain with a dirty sock full of compost.

[Cassiebsg]

Don't know what you talking about, but now you totally lost me, Jack. Whatever you tried to say there just doesn't give meaning or sound nice...

[Crimson Wizard]

So truthers that post crazy and ridiculous throeries about 911 are actually the government pretending to be truthers?

Wow...the plot thickens.

To be frank, I do not see why that would not be possible, if we take an assumption that it was government job and all. This is like another case of sabotaging opposition, similar to getting your provocators inside revolutionary groups - something that seem to had happened many times in history.

EDIT: of course, that does not mean that everyone posting or supporting such theories should be goverment agent; only few top theorists could be. People are easily get carried away with new mind-blowing theories.

[Snarky]

It's theoretically possible, and intelligence agencies have been known to use similar techniques against each other and against activist groups, but man what a waste of time it would be! Like the Internet doesn't generate enough stupidity on its own.

[Mandle]

Like the Internet doesn't generate enough stupidity on its own.

And they said a Perpetual Stupidity Machine was impossible!

[Danvzare]

Just to add icing to the cake. I would like to add that South Park actually made an episode where they revealed that all conspiracy theories were made by the government to make people think they actually have the kind of power that conspiracy theories make the government out to have.
It was a good episode too.
And just to clarify, this in no way invalidates this being possible. It would be hilarious if it was true though.

[Khris]

They are low-hanging fruit for the wilfully ignorant to feel smart as they "debunk" it.

I feel smart whenever I catch someone blatantly lying about what they themselves said three pages earlier, or when I point out that somebody fell for a Mercola article that plainly and obviously misrepresents a study's findings, then watch the person disappear from the thread for weeks.

I don't feel too smart though, because that was really low-hanging fruit, too. And picking on people who merely think they are smart is easy.

I also love how you just stepped firmly into paranoia territory. Remember to occasionally remove the tinfoil hat, so your brain can get some air.

Someone started another thread on the 'psychology of conspiracy theories'. I think a study of the psychology of consensus is more interesting and relevant.

That's a common tactic of conspiracy theorists: they think there are only two groups: themselves and sheeple.
Whenever somebody is encountered who has actually evaluated the CT hypotheses and decided to reject them, they are either a troll, a shill or still a sheeple, because they haven't "truly looked at the evidence".
I can somewhat understand the feeling though, it's how I feel whenever I encounter a religious person.

[Jack]

Since your last logic error in this thread, the invasion of Iraq has been proven to be allowed by a false flag event where the US government covered up for the true perpetrators of 9/11 by diverting attention to a country they wanted to invade and had practically nothing to do with 9/11. While this is not a false flag to the full extent that I and others have always claimed, it still fits the description of a false flag event.

The fact that it didn't shut your lie hole for more than a few days demonstrates the kind of intellectual dishonestly you subject yourself to.

[NickyNyce]

https://youtu.be/1ThnzMgm1I4

I thought this was kind of interesting. Obviously not the exact circumstances, but I did notice that besides the explosives going off, the collapse of these buildings are rather quiet. I also noticed that every single one of these buildings appear to have debris only 1 story high or less after the collapse. Some of these buildings are small, but some appear to be at least 20 stories tall. I know the towers were huge, but they did collapse up to 4 or 5 stories in some places. Very interesting.

https://youtu.be/lKYW89xEYg0

In this video you can see huge giant pieces of the tower falling to the ground. The inner core of the building was left standing for a pretty long time. After a while it eventually falls downward and collapses too.

[monkey424]

So truthers that post crazy and ridiculous theories about 911 are actually the government pretending to be truthers?

Wow...the plot thickens.

Yes, you're on the right track. But we've been through this idea before.

Repeating what I've said earlier, the cover-up of 9/11 is essentially two-tier. The first tier is the official narrative - or official conspiracy theory. The second tier is the 'inside job' narrative for those who can't accept the official version, which typically involves controlled demolition or some variant of that (one variant being the 'thermite' story which certainly falls under the 'crazy and ridiculous' category).

So yes, the 'plot thickened' about a decade ago when a chap called Andrew Johnson involved in the "truth movement" realised it had been infiltrated by individuals purporting to be interested in the truth but actually working to obscure evidence and distort perception to effectively hide the truth. Andrew wrote a book about his experience, which you can download for free - otherwise I recommend this interview with Andrew, here.

And of course, this all equates to South Park being right! The 9/11 conspiracy... is a conspiracy!



Here's a short video that I wanted to share. This lady describes things that are consistent with the statements of other witnesses regarding exploding cars.

VIDEO

Please have a look. Tell me what you think.

[NickyNyce]

Here is what I don't understand about 911. Why would the government have fake planes, 1 in Pennsylvania with a crater and so called no debri?

Now the government has another team at the Pentagon with no plane, explosion, fake actors, fake families, fake planes departing from the airports, fake phone calls, fake collapse, fake plane sounds, holograms, kill tons of people, police officers, fire fighters, fake news crews, destroy two buildings down to a few stories tall that would make everyone wonder why and how it happened?

Why do all of this when a simple bomb somewhere would be enough to go to war? WHY have 8 million chain of events that have to happen perfectly right in front of the world with cameras everywhere and tens of thousands of witnesses to see with their own eyes?

Why not have a bomb go off in the towers? Why not destroy a floor or two? Why would they destroy two of the towers and turn them to dust like you said, when they don't have to? That's why none of it makes sense. Why is george bush sitting clueless like an idiot in a kindergarten class, with a horrible response in front of cameras that make him look bad if this is a conspiracy? It doesn't make sense to me, none of it.

There is no need for the 8 million chain of events that happened that day that would be needed to go to war. Why not just the pentagon?

If explosives were used on the towers, why destroy every single floor of both towers? Why destroy building 7 too? Why have 8 million things for the world to question when you don't have to?

So the government is so dumb they never thought of this? It would take tons and tons of people to keep a secret which doesn't happen. You can't keep one person quiet in this world. An email gets sent and people find out. This is the million dollar question that makes no sense. If a bomb went off in the pentagon, all of America would have said go to war.

Oh yeah, let's also have fake conspiracy theory videos on youtube thrown in too in order to really confuse them and trick everyone. Let's use super microwave rays and turn the towers to dust and have there be a smaller pile of debri than everyone expects, that will surely make them believe this is real...?

I find all of this so insane. What does make more sense to me is this. Terrorists attacked america, and are attacking all over the world, and the towers collapsed from the points of impacts from the planes, and they failed. Yep, very simple explanation.

Just my opinion. I respect everyone else's opinions here even though the topic gets heated at times. This will be my last post here even though I've said this before. I wish luck on bringing down the government if what you say or anyone else here says is true.

[Snarky]

I feel we've been going about this the wrong way.

[Mandle]

Snarky....HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! That was freakin' GREAT!!!