Movie Character ---> Pixelated Character (mustache issue)

Started by silverwolfpet, Tue 03/05/2016 12:55:30

Previous topic - Next topic

silverwolfpet

Hello!

I'll keep it short. First, thank you for taking a look into this thread, every suggestion and advice is more than welcomed.
Working on a game (based on one of our webseries) - got stuck on the character sprite.

Screenshot from Webseries:


Sprites variants:


Enhanced Sprites variants:


As you can see, there's a bit of trouble when it comes to the mustache and facial expression. Trying to keep the game at 320x200, the mustache can be confused with his mouth. If we make it too small, he starts looking Charlie Chaplin. :)
Giving him a curved mustache will make him look "happy" or "smiling" which is something to be avoided.

The game is a thriller/mystery type of game, it has tense moments, scary environments but it also has a lot of humor in the "calm" parts of the story. It's quite tricky to balance this since the character must look good enough for a scary experience but also be animated funny for comedic purposes.

We'll be using Sierra-style portraits for dialogues, so the facial expressions should not be a problem.
What do you think?

Danvzare

I think there's several problems with the mustache that's causing you trouble.
Firstly, it's too low down. It needs to be above the mouth, not where the mouth actually is.
Secondly, the five-o-clock shadow clashes with the mustache. No one expects to see a character with both a mustache and a five-o-clock shadow like that. And anyone with a mustache that magnificent, is problem going to be much more clean shaven. In short, I recommend you downplay the five-o-clock shadow a bit.
Thirdly, the mustache lacks definition. It's just one colour. You need to use another colour to either add highlighting or shadows. Make it stand out. You could also possibly replace those skin-colour pixels that illustrate a curved mustache, with some highlighting, although I'm not sure if that would work.

In my opinion, the only sprite which doesn't make him look like a smiling buck-toothed hillbilly, is the last sprite. And that's probably because his mustache is extending beyond the face. So that's probably a good place to start.

Good luck. :-D

Blondbraid

Quote from: Danvzare on Tue 03/05/2016 13:57:16
In my opinion, the only sprite which doesn't make him look like a smiling buck-toothed hillbilly, is the last sprite. And that's probably because his mustache is extending beyond the face. So that's probably a good place to start.
Part of my brain thinks it looks like he has a big smile and a Chaplin-style mustache right above it. (laugh)
Personally I prefer the second sprite from the left, but I agree with Danvzare on the mustache. Also, the bowler-hat looks like a trilby-hat in some of the sprites, it should be rounder up top.

Maybe you can try and zoom out the photo and see what the pixels look like?


Gurok

Quote from: silverwolfpet on Tue 03/05/2016 12:55:30
If we make it too small, he starts looking Charlie Chaplin. :)

That's a nice way of putting it! Go with the fourth option. That looks most convincing to me.

Don't use black/dark greys for the suit. There's no contrast. Sample a colour from his suit in that pic and up the luminance a bit.

I tried doing a redraw.

[imgzoom]http://i.imgur.com/Me97xuN.png[/imgzoom]

My drawing of his suit looks a bit mottled, so I've probably overdone the lighting a tad. But you can see far more detail when you don't start with a colour so close to black.

I wouldn't worry about the shape of his moustache. It's all one big slab this size, and double height conveys enough of an idea about its shape (bushy).

Get the shape of the bowler hat right. I found this to be a good reference:

https://media3.popsugar-assets.com/files/2014/08/14/816/n/1922283/4477bc6ff7d312a0_DA5_er_7HdKhFB.xxxlarge_2x/i/Thomas-Barrow-Rob-James-Collier-looks-smart-bowler-hat.jpg

It's never going to look right perfectly front on.

I think the moustache is fine sitting over the mouth.

If you'll excuse me, I have to go play a Poirot game now...
[img]http://7d4iqnx.gif;rWRLUuw.gi

silverwolfpet

Quote from: Danvzare on Tue 03/05/2016 13:57:16
I think (...) that's probably a good place to start.
Good luck. :-D

Quote from: Blondbraid on Tue 03/05/2016 14:34:46
Part of my brain thinks (...) Maybe you can try and zoom out the photo and see what the pixels look like?

Took both of your suggestions (thank you very much!) and tried coming up with a better sprite. It's also important to keep it in the same "feel" with the backgrounds. What do you think? Is it any better? Any worse?

I think we're getting there.


Big image (7Mb), even though it is PNG :)))
Spoiler
[close]

Quote from: Gurok on Tue 03/05/2016 15:08:14
That's a nice way of putting it! Go with the fourth option. That looks most convincing to me.
(...) If you'll excuse me, I have to go play a Poirot game now...

Oh, wow! That's SO nice of you to draw Plustard! We love it! :-D
Hmmm, you may be on to something there, with using a shade different than black. We've played with that and here's what we got so far:


Aaaand another big image to see the blending in action:
Spoiler
[close]

Hmmm... what do you guys think?


Snarky

You don't have to scale up the image before you post it. Use [imgzoom] to get a picture that can be dynamically scaled up in the browser (hover for scaling options):

[imgzoom]http://silverwolfpet.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Plustard-Sprite.gif[/imgzoom]

silverwolfpet

Quote from: Snarky on Tue 03/05/2016 15:56:25
You don't have to scale up the image before you post it. Use [imgzoom] to get a picture that can be dynamically scaled up in the browser.

Thank you for the tip! I noticed that, although it does make the images blurry (at least on my side, on Chrome). Thought I'd make it easier for everyone ^^
What do you think of the model, Snarky?

Blondbraid

I really like your new sprite, although the blue one seems a little bit bright, maybe slightly slightly darker (especially the rim of the hat, it sort of blends into the background)?
All in all I think it's an improvement.


Danvzare

Definitely a huge improvement.
Now THAT is a mustache. :-D

silverwolfpet

Quote from: Blondbraid on Tue 03/05/2016 17:08:21
I really like your new sprite, although the blue one seems a little bit bright, maybe slightly slightly darker (especially the rim of the hat, it sort of blends into the background)?
All in all I think it's an improvement.

Quote from: Danvzare on Tue 03/05/2016 17:43:15
Definitely a huge improvement.
Now THAT is a mustache. :-D

The mustache does look better and I think I'm a bit fonder of the black suit (as it is show-accurate). However, the backgrounds are and will be quite dark... maybe this can be a good thing, that he blends into the background sometimes? Maybe it adds to the creepiness?

We decided upon the opening scene (it takes place in a museum). What do you think?


Monsieur OUXX

#10
the central issue is : CHOOSE A CHARACTER SIZE. Everything else is secondary. and then stick to it.

That includes CHOOSING THE SIZE OF THE FACE. Otherwise, later on, you'll have a lot of issues if you badly chose how many pixels should be used for the eyes, the nose, etc. There is only a handful of resolutions that actually work well.
 

oareaso

I like number 5 most, because of his big head, a big head helps to show his emotions easier, only his left shoulder feels a little weird to me and as Danvzare said the mustache is low.

Grok

It the mustache is a trade-mark feature of the character you might want to exaggerate it and make it really big
[imgzoom]https://db.tt/jsRifC6A[/imgzoom]

SinSin



I had a little (not great) paint over session with this and played around with the stache,  I managed to make it a little bigger but maybe too big now lol.
I'm having some real issues shading that suit too.
If it doesn't help, at least I got some practice in

EDIT   just noticed that coloured pixel   DOH
Currently working on a project!

silverwolfpet

#14
Quote from: Monsieur OUXX on Wed 04/05/2016 13:02:33
the central issue is : CHOOSE A CHARACTER SIZE. Everything else is secondary. and then stick to it.
That includes CHOOSING THE SIZE OF THE FACE. Otherwise, later on, you'll have a lot of issues if you badly chose of many pixels should be used for the eyes, the nose, etc. There is only a handful of resolutions that actually work well.

I completely agree! We've spent the last days debating just that, comparing, testing... we think we finally got it.

Quote from: oareaso on Wed 04/05/2016 13:51:22
I like number 5 most, because of his big head, a big head helps to show his emotions easier, only his left shoulder feels a little weird to me and as Danvzare said the mustache is low.

Yes, true, then again we'll use portraits so all the emotions will be shown above the sprite. It's a little tricky to pull off, but we might just make it.
Mustache readjusted accordingly.

Quote from: Grok on Wed 04/05/2016 17:23:20
It the mustache is a trade-mark feature of the character you might want to exaggerate it and make it really big
[imgzoom]https://db.tt/jsRifC6A[/imgzoom]

That is a beautiful rendition of the Inspector, hahaha! Excellent work!
We'd love to tackle this look as it seems to be quite adequate - however we're really striving to finish this game till mid-August. It's a little challenge we're gonna tackle, so the fewer pixels, the better.
However, if this experiment goes well, we will most likely increase the number of pixels and, implicitly, the overall quality of the sprites.

STILL, you make a fair point there. We think we found the perfect balance to make it look good AND not give him a weird hillbilly-look. :-D

Quote from: Sinsin on Thu 05/05/2016 01:22:52

I had a little (not great) paint over session with this and played around with the stache,  I managed to make it a little bigger but maybe too big now lol.
I'm having some real issues shading that suit too.
If it doesn't help, at least I got some practice in
EDIT   just noticed that coloured pixel   DOH

This is pretty much identical to one of our drafts and tests. Yours actually looks a little bit better than ours ;)

That being said, taking into account all your suggestions, we think this final combined-look of Plustard will be more than ok for this game (at least until we gather more experience).
We also made Johnny's Sprite (the white-haired associate). He's still WIP, but we made a test shot with him too.

AND to take things further, we're gonna settle the issue with "the characters might blend into the background" by adding a flashlight support, which should be appropriate for a scary game. :P Here we go!




Focusing the emotions on the (upcoming) portrait sprites, keeping the style close to the background-art, all while balancing the real-life look with the cartoony tendency AND making them effective for (upcoming) scary scenes, this should prove to be the final version of Plustard and a good starting point for Johnny's sprite.


Whacchu think?

Cassiebsg

I think you need some contrast for your main character. It's already blending with the BG, that he looks so much smaller than Johnny.
Black is a pain to work with. Also I would drop that black line between his hand and the shirt. You have a clear black line from the jacket arm, then a bit of the white shirt and then skin. Also I don't know the show, but how is the character normally? He's he conservative and keeps his jacket buttoned up for most of the episode, or is he more relaxed, like in the last picture you posted, and uses his jacket lose and open for most of the episode? Cause if it is the later, then I would go for an unbuttoned jacket, that would give you a little more contrast to an otherwise very dark character.

Here's a quick paint-over, just to illustrate. (remember that black is not always just black, but different kinds of grays depending on the lighting it's receiving.)
[IMGzoom]http://i725.photobucket.com/albums/ww258/Cassiebsg/Private/SpritesAlpha_paintover.png[/IMGzoom]

Also, think you are using way to many shades or color. Reduce them. ;)
And do post the sprites in it's original size. painting over something that is 5 times the size it should be is a pain.

And last but not least, I'm not the best sprite artist, so listen to the "experts" (I'm not one). ;)

Think Johnny looks okay, though again, I would avoid the pure white for the hair, try a very light of gray, leave the white for highlights and a light grey for shadows.
There are those who believe that life here began out there...

silverwolfpet

Ack, super-sorry... forgot to add them. Here, done, I added them to the post above.

As for their personalities, Plustard is very uptight, very stubborn.
Johnny has a kid-like mentality.

If we'd be talking stereotypes here, think of Plustard as a grumpy John Cleese, while Johnny could be represented by a hyperactive Naruto.
This is a very, very thin characterization, but if it helps... :)

The flashlight works now, still need to tweak it but let me post a WIP screenshot. This is why I hesitate on going wtih "50 Shades of Gray" on Plustard ;-D - the flashlight should suffice in bringing him out of the background.
Although I agree on Johnny's hair and shoes, they should be darker.


Danvzare

Maybe it's just me, but I think Johnny's hair on that sprite, makes it look like a lion's mane. The white hair, the light skin colour, and the way the hair follows the back of the head, kinda tricks my eyes into thinking that it goes under his chin as well.

Also, the live-action screenshot shows Johnny's coat having short sleeves. While your sprite's coat doesn't have any sleeves at all. It's not an issue, just an inconsistency I thought I'd point out.

Avirosb

I was messing around a bit and came to the conclusion you might want to "soften" the tips on the moustache (nevermind that other stuff)
by adding a color that is darker than the skin but lighter than the moustache, preferably a shade of gray. Hopefully this is useful.

[imgzoom]http://i.imgur.com/k0wBlqW.png[/imgzoom]


silverwolfpet

#19
Quote from: Avirosb on Sat 07/05/2016 22:34:46
I was messing around a bit and came to the conclusion you might want to "soften" the tips on the moustache (nevermind that other stuff)
by adding a color that is darker than the skin but lighter than the moustache, preferably a shade of gray. Hopefully this is useful.

[imgzoom]http://i.imgur.com/k0wBlqW.png[/imgzoom]

That looks really great! It kind of looks like one of our earlier designs. While the idea of "softening" the mustache tips is good, we think we'd rather keep it as it is now.
Here's the front view for the mustache:


As soon as we have some Johnny versions, we'll post them here!

silverwolfpet

As promised, here is Johnny!
What do you think? ;-D We pretty much like how he turned out and we're aiming to make the hair move as he walks. Nothing too fancy, just visually pleasing. ^^



Danvzare

Very nice indeed, and a good likeness of the character. Nice artstyle as well.

The only bit of critisism I could give, is the 90 degree angle on Johnny's left shoulder (the right side of the picture).
Personally, I'd smoothen it off a bit, like this:
[imgzoom]http://orig04.deviantart.net/3307/f/2016/141/b/7/johnny_by_danvzare-da38b7z.png[/imgzoom]

silverwolfpet

Quote from: Danvzare on Fri 20/05/2016 10:06:47
Very nice indeed, and a good likeness of the character. Nice artstyle as well.

The only bit of critisism I could give, is the 90 degree angle on Johnny's left shoulder (the right side of the picture).
Personally, I'd smoothen it off a bit, like this:
[imgzoom]http://orig04.deviantart.net/3307/f/2016/141/b/7/johnny_by_danvzare-da38b7z.png[/imgzoom]

Awesomesauce! Thanks for pointing that out - we fixed it now :-D

Well, excellent news - Johnny has his full walk-cycle. Plustard as well.
Onwards to the portraits!

Warning! Actual image size!
Spoiler
[close]

So far we have this going on, and we're preeeeetty sure it's not a good art decision. I mean, yeah, we have the actors who can pose live for this (which is an advantage) but we don't wanna take the player out of the mood. The small number of pixels might suggest that we should use stylized versions or cartoonified... what are your thoughts on this?


Maybe adding a background to them might make things look better? Or perhaps the style itself is not ok (by using photorealistic pics). Hmmm...


Blondbraid

I'm not sure whether photos or cartoon style would be a better choice, but I do think
it would be good to use a background for the portraits so they don't melt into the background...


silverwolfpet

Perhaps a background would make it too big/blocky?  This is what we have so far.




silverwolfpet

What about Johnny. Do they both look okay?
We're about to tackle the facial expressions and we need to make sure the base/default image is looking awesome.



Danvzare

Maybe it's just me, but Johnny's portrait looks a little creepy.
Those wide eyes and that big smile, come together to create a rather unsettling image. At least, in my mind.

Cassiebsg

There are those who believe that life here began out there...

silverwolfpet

Okay okay, how about these versions?

We think Plustard's Portrait is 100% finished.
Not sure about Johnny though, but he does look a bit more human. What do you think?



Danvzare

I love the circle and triangle backdrops on the portraits.
Johnny's portrait still gives me the creeps though. It's the white above Johnny's eyes that make him look like a serial killer.

Here's my quick fix:
[imgzoom]http://orig11.deviantart.net/507d/f/2016/150/4/b/johnny_portrait_by_danvzare-da4b0em.png[/imgzoom]

Haggis

The 'lunatic' look though is actually in keeping with Johnny's character - I've seen the pilot episode and lets just say he's not all there. The portrait is actually pretty good in that regard.

Danvzare

Quote from: Haggis on Sun 29/05/2016 10:08:19
The 'lunatic' look though is actually in keeping with Johnny's character - I've seen the pilot episode and lets just say he's not all there. The portrait is actually pretty good in that regard.
Oh, well in that case keep it as is. It's perfect. 8-)

I should really watch that pilot episode.

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk