To pick up the weird item, or not to pick up the weird item?

[NickyNyce]

I'm not saying this is right, but I'm sure we all have noticed this. In many adventure games the developers are thinking about this, because in so many cases when you pick up an item that seems to be useless the character says...I have no idea why I'm picking this up, but what the hell.

So yes, there does seem to be a problem here, and the developers know it. Now it's a matter of keeping the game fun or user friendly for the player. It seems very easy to just not have these items available until certain places, but in Ali and AnasAbdin games where the character can go in any direction they want, this becomes an issue. Maybe it's important to tell the player in the beginning of the game that they can pick up anything they want. By doing this, the player is deciding which items to pick up and not the character, if that makes any sense?

Maybe in this case it's important to add items that will be useless? Never to be used in the game? Let the player know that they indeed may be carrying useless items around. Maybe limited inventory space is a reasonable idea, so deciding which items to pick up seem very important and this adds another layer of thinking to the game? It will be very important for the player to be able to get around the game world quickly though, to keep it user friendly when the player says...Now I do want that light bulb I saw in the shop before.

In AnasAbdin case, maybe his character can store all these items he finds in his space ship, but his character can only carry so many items with him? Now his character can go back to his supply crate in order to decide which items to take with him. I actually really like this idea, because it adds another level of puzzle solving to the game. This will make it harder on developers to code the game, but I think this sounds pretty cool.

There has to be a better way than just picking everything up even if it is useless at the time.

[Stupot]

Which would you prefer your players to experience: a) to initially be unable to pick an item up only to find out they need it later, or b) be able to pick up an item despite having no initial need for it only to coincidentally need it later?

I think most adventure games have a mixture of these scenarios. For me, a) has more potential for 'AHAA' moments where the player remembers something they have previously seen and has to go back for it. Just make sure they don't have to go back an annoyingly long way to get it. Or better still, make it something in a room that they will be going back to anyway so as not to feel like a needless backtrack.

[Danvzare]

Which would you prefer your players to experience: a) to initially be unable to pick an item up only to find out they need it later, or b) be able to pick up an item despite having no initial need for it only to coincidentally need it later?

B, definitely B.
A introduces too many problems, such as "Well I saw a candle earlier, but I couldn't pick it up, so what the hell am I supposed to do?".

[Cassiebsg]

I also like CaptainD's suggestion, even though that was a bit extreme with an engine and wheelbarrow.
More like... "I can't pick that up! It's screwed to the wall..."... later, after you come across the puzzle that needs that item, and you realize you need it, you may just find a screwdriver someplace, maybe an NPC dropped it, or has it, and know you can talk him out to trade that screwdriver, buy it or convince him you need it to solve a problem... and all of a sudden you have 3 puzzles instead of 1.

[Radiant]

I'm not saying the player shouldn't be able to pick up useful looking objects - hammers, keys, books etc. I just don't like it when they pick up useless looking items for no reason.

The straightforward solution, then, is to not have any puzzles that require useless-looking items. This is elegant, whereas disallowing taking the item until the character has a reason for is not elegant.

[Stupot]

I don't think disallowing an item to be picked up at first is such a bad thing. It just has to be handled carefully. Set up a small puzzle early on or in a tutorial where this happens, then you can teach the player that your character isn't always going to pick up everything that isn't nailed down and that he might sometimes have to recheck a room they've already been in. Once that is an established game mechanic I don't think it's a problem as long as you avoid the other pitfalls that might come with it (distant backtracking, calling your player an idiot, etc) and try to make it natural (make it a room that the player would be going back to anyway, so that it doesn't feel like they are just going back to fetch something they could have picked up earlier.

TLDR: Train the player to think 'okay, I can't pick that up now (and why would I, there's no obvious need for it) but I'll bear it in mind because I might need it later.'

[Mandle]

The straightforward solution, then, is to not have any puzzles that require useless-looking items. This is elegant, whereas disallowing taking the item until the character has a reason for is not elegant.

A man says to his doctor "Doctor, it hurts when I do this." and forces his elbow up behind his head.
The doctor says "Then don't do that."

[Danvzare]

Once that is an established game mechanic I don't think it's a problem as long as you avoid the other pitfalls that might come with it

Agreed, if you establish it as a game mechanic, everything should be fine.

Although to add to your list of pitfalls, another one is to make sure that the player can pick up the item when they think it'll be useful. Nothing is more frustrating than finding a dark room, going back to pick up that candle you saw earlier, and finding out that you can't because you first had to tell someone that you couldn't go forward because the room was too dark, so you could be given a lighter, and then the player character realizes he needs the candle (despite there being a fire in another room somewhere where you could have lit the candle).
I'm fairly sure something like that has happened before to me on non-adventure games. You figure something out, but you can't do it, because there's a per-requisite that you didn't know about or even need.

[Ali]

I also agree with Stupot about it being a legitimate mechanic, and I think that bad puzzle design has trained us to play adventure games wrong. I do it too, but reflexively combing every location for hotspots and filling your pockets indiscriminately is a silly way to behave (except in the context of a forensic detective game). I don't think games should reward silly behaviour just because it's traditional.

Although to add to your list of pitfalls, another one is to make sure that the player can pick up the item when they think it'll be useful.

Danvzarre I hate that too. It happens in one of my (otherwise) favourite bits of Morrowind.

[cat]

Adventure games usually work in that way - you can pick up stuff you encounter, put it in your inventory and try to use it whenever you want to. Is this realistic? Probably not. Should this be discuraged? Maybe.

You don't want the player to walk around and pick up random stuff? Fine - then don't give them an inventory at all. Or make it more realistic and let the player only pick up one item in each hand. Or make an inventory with very limited item count. Or... options are endless.

If you don't like the established mechanics, make new ones. But do it for the whole game and don't just use it in one place as an excuse for lazy puzzle design.

[Radiant]

I also agree with Stupot about it being a legitimate mechanic, and I think that bad puzzle design has trained us to play adventure games wrong. I do it too, but reflexively combing every location for hotspots and filling your pockets indiscriminately is a silly way to behave (except in the context of a forensic detective game).

It is true that it can be a legitimate mechanic. However, bear in mind that characters in most games behave in lots of silly ways - so 'cracking down' on only this one would be weird to the player. If you want the main character to behave realistically, that's great (and innovative), but it would require more changes than the one this thread is about.

[Ali]

I see your point. I suppose these kind of interface-based ideas, like the Resonance's short/long term memory, probably need to be well integrated into a very good game to avoid simply annoying people. And even in the case of Resonance, I often forget that it had a memory-inventory at all.

I think my solution in this case will be to allow the character to take the outlandish objects, but to justify it in a way that is in-character for the protagonist.

EDIT: I should say I was asking this with reference to less cartoon-y games than Nelly. Obviously, Nelly can pick up stupid stuff and it doesn't matter.

[Stupot]

For a piratey game like Nelly, you could have some kind of trading ststem. In that setting there are sure to be certain characters who are into buying/trading useless junk in return for either money or other junk which turns out to be less useless. This is the kind of thing that would justify a player-character picking up all sorts of crazy stuff.

In a more serious game I think it doesn't hurt to at least ask yourself "why does my character think it's okay to pick this up?"

Oooon the other hand, I remember a point being made a while ago (maybe by me?) that you can think of the inventory not necessarily just as a giant box of goodies the character has in his posession, but also as a record that your character is aware of the item abd it's location. So when I click on the inventory, select the plank of wood and use it in the window, I'm not really pullingba massive chunk of wood out ofvmy trousers. Instead I'm recalling the plank, going back to get it, bringing it back and smashing the window with it all without the ugly backtracking.

I guess there's a kind of elegance to that thinking, but it's flawed. Especially if the player is in a new area and wouldn't physically be able to have gone back for the plank.


(Sorry, my fat thumb is being fatter than usual today and I can't be arse to fix all the typos right now.)

[Mandle]

(Sorry, my fat thumb is being fatter than usual today and I can't be arse to fix all the typos right now.)

Just admit it mate...It's summer holidays and you are drunk...Nothing to be ashamed of...I'm drunk too...

[Trapezoid]

If you have a key in room A and you don't want the player to pick it up until they've encountered the door in room B, put the key up on a tall shelf, and put a long stick next to the door in room B.

There will always be times when you use the protagonist's opinion as a no response-- "I don't want to do that." But generally it's an awkward type of puzzle when the player has to convince the protagonist to do something that would have no apparent consequences, like picking something up.