I'll be watching you...or rather Benetton will be.

OneThinkingGal and ._. · Sun 13/04/2003 04:01:37

I'm an EPIC reader and pretty concerned about my privacy as anyone on IRC can tell you (they'll say paranoid, but ignore that

).

This is one of the newer items posted on EPIC:
http://boycottbenetton.org/index.html (Click News)
Benetton: No Microchips in Clothes (Yet)
Italian-based clothing company Benetton announced that it has not put Radio Frequency Identification (RFID) tags in its clothing, despite some reports to the contrary. The company said it will undertake a study of the tracking technology, "including careful analysis of potential implications relating to individual privacy." Consumers Against Supermarket Privacy Invasion and Numbering had organized an anti-RFID boycott of the international clothes manufacturer and vendor. For more information, see Junkbusters' page on RFID. (Apr. 7)

Apparently, they've backed out of it for now but still might use them for 'industrial purposes'.

Doesnt it seem like you're always being watched no matter what you do? I know loads of people will say well you know what, if you're not doing anything wrong, why are you worried? But I think we should be worried. We should be worried as to who has access to this information and what they do with it and how long it exists for. I'm not specifically talking about just this, but the whole tracking infrastructure that is being put in place around us. Keep in mind most of this is not really opt-in. They're not really giving you a choice.

On the one hand the govts seem to be putting in place broad sweeping measures for spying on its own people, which one can at least excuse as security related; on the other hand the corporations continue to track you to find out which neat little bracket they can put you into so they can sell you what you 'need', all while convincing you its for your own good.

While its all in the name of capitalism, and I'm generally pro-capitalism, where does capitalism end and intrusion begin?

Here's a coupla more related links(off the news page there):
http://newswithviews.com/Mary/starrett4.htm
http://www.alientechnology.com/news/The_Internet_of_Things.htm
http://www.itnews.com.au/storycontent.cfm?ID=9&Art_ID=11844

And my general privacy reading links:
http://www.epic.org
http://www.privacy.org/

I'd like to hear people's thoughts on this, is it pointless to be this concerned or does it matter or any other ideas you may have.

Archy in Germany · Sun 13/04/2003 18:15:29

I really couldn't care less if a couple of big companies know that I like buying anime, trashy RPGs and computer components.

TheYak · Sun 13/04/2003 20:32:25

Annie? Are you sure you know what this is about? This concerns the new clothing tags that are to replace the current ones. The current ones have strips of metal set a certain distance apart. When you pass through a stanchion, it sets off an alarm. The RFID are the new breed of tags that use a very slight amount of electricity to activate a radio signal individually "keyed" to each tag.

Now, even if you knew that, you might not know that these things are going to be used to nearly every product you purchase. They'll be on cans of Coke, Videos, CD's, Coffee-Makers - not just clothing. Now, if retailers are thinking of leaving the tags active then that is a tad scary. These tags are supposed to be much smaller than the current tags. In fact, they're supposed to be roughly the size of a head of a pin. They'll be inter-woven into garments so they won't be easily removed.

Trapezoid · Sun 13/04/2003 20:46:35

Unless they have little cameras or microphones in them, I don't see what the problem is...

OneThinkingGal and ._. · Sun 13/04/2003 22:06:22

Yes they're planning to leave them active or were rather.

Oh yeah, and also if you read the articles, there is no way for us to turn these things off.

Trap, they're more like a radio transmitter that tells anyone with a relevant scanner what you bought and where you bought it from without your consent.

I don't know if you guys read this link, but it seems the most succint to me:
http://newswithviews.com/Mary/starrett4.htm

To quote from that:
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Benetton is not alone in implementing this frighteningly invasive technology. Gillette has already purchased 500 million of these tracking devices and starting in July will imbed them in shaving cream and razors sold at Wal Mart stores. The chipped items will sit atop "smart" shelves that will work in unison with the chipped products to tell Gillette and Wal Mart all kinds of things; and the info-gathering doesn't end there. As an extra added bonus ,when shoppers take their Big Brother -branded purchases home (and wherever RFID "readers" are located,) their purchase will be tracked. RFID Journal touts the technology as a way to eliminate bar codes, cut down on labor costs and theft and says it will be a boon to inventory control.

The founder and director of a group called C.A.S.P.I.A.N. (Consumers Against Privacy Invasion And Numbering) sees it differently. Katherine Albrecht, a Harvard University doctoral candidate says what Benetton, Gillette and over 90 of the world's biggest corporations are doing, in essence, is "registering" those products to you. Albrecht has been warning us about this for years. She says consumers have no idea that these RFID chips actually track the owner .. " then anytime you (go) near an RFID reader device the (product) would beam out your identity to anyone with access to a database - all without your permission".
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Which I spose most people will say they dont give a hoot about anyway.

Las Naranjas · Sun 13/04/2003 23:11:25

Isn't it fun when the new assitant forgets to remove the tags since it's tech and small (unlike those big fat white discs) so you set off the alarm in every other shop you go to that month.

I got a thing for being searched by big fat security men.

Shattered Sponge · Mon 14/04/2003 06:04:21

Quote from: Archy in Germany on Sun 13/04/2003 18:15:29
I really couldn't care less if a couple of big companies know that I like buying anime, trashy RPGs and computer components.

Well, considering the kind of anime that I buy...

There should be more pornagraphic computer components.

Trapezoid · Mon 14/04/2003 06:06:41

I don't understand. They don't submit any information about YOU. It seems like anonymous statistics stuff.

OneThinkingGal and ._. · Mon 14/04/2003 22:49:59

Of course its connected to you, its got a unique number that can be traced as being bought by your credit card.

Trapezoid · Mon 14/04/2003 23:09:32

Ahh.
It all really comes down to what they're using it for, I suppose. Personally I don't see much use other than statistics gathering, but it does seem like conspiracy theory fodder.

LGM · Tue 15/04/2003 00:44:36

This isn't really worth worrying about.

If you wanna complain about what big corporations do, attack the ciggerate companies.

What the hell are they gonna do if they know what you buy?

"Oh, this person likes to buy apples at the grocery store... Shall we kill him?" or rather "Shall we send him a box of apples?"

Honestly, you needn't be worrying unless you're buying something you shouldn't be.

(You can always shop online if you're going to be a paranoid conspiracy theory person.. But I don't see how that is any better.)

OneThinkingGal and ._. · Tue 15/04/2003 03:59:34

Its actually that they can identify you from your clothes so if someone stuck a reader in an apartment doorway they could tell who was coming and going.

Squinky · Tue 15/04/2003 23:52:38

Well, You would think this would violate our 4th amendment rights....but the worlds getting all stupid and crazy....

They'll probably have some legal way of saying that you agree to it when you buy the product...Legal smeagle stuff...

TheYak · Wed 16/04/2003 02:50:58

It is interesting. Imagine being tailed by surveying white vans. They'll have reading machines bolted to the vans so they can simply follow you from the grocery store and find out your favorite brand of laundry detergent and what kind of clothing you like. I, personally, don't like the idea of this possible breach of privacy but you do have to keep in mind that this isn't like a tracking device (per se), it's P/A tech meaning it's passive until it receives a signal at which point it's active long enough to send a number back to the transmitting stanchion. It does have some definate bonuses that may even outweigh the negatives. For example: It may deter more theft which'll mean lower prices (in theory) for those of us who pay for stuff (unlikely, but the theory is good). You could also possibly have a line in a grocery store where you simply wheel your cart through a small hallway and slide your ATM card through... all without taking stuff out of your cart or having to deal with an actual human-being (They can be so trying sometimes).

Squinky · Wed 16/04/2003 03:35:47

But then, what happens to the poor slobs job that used to check your stuff....

I don't know, I heard about that whole checking idea a few years ago and I never liked it then....

I'd rather just go through the checkout...

Las Naranjas · Wed 16/04/2003 04:44:59

Presently (under Australian law) if you get overcharged electronically (by barcode scanners) you get the product free. Just to make sure the shops don't fleece millions from a dollar here a dollar there.

But if there's no checkout person, who do you complain to?

Instead you can call a line and wait for 15 minutes until someone comes on.

Or you can fill out form AB23Z9 and wait.

And it'll make it just that more difficult.

So the companies, without breaking the law, won't feel compelled to fix the error, and may continue to fleece all that money.