Stupid Nobels-- Nobel for lit given to Bob Dylan :)

Started by KyriakosCH, Thu 13/10/2016 23:36:12

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selmiak

Bob Dylan shouldn't get this years literature nobelprice but he should rather get obamas peace nobel price, then I could sleep a little better. Of course it should be taken from mr obama in a peaceful way. Obama is in no way a peacemaker with all the wars the us is involved in and guantanamo still active and doing some semigood things at the end of his period. Does bob dylan get the literature award rather than the peace award because all his songs of freedom and peace and understanding are just fictional thoughts of a dreamer that wants to escape his time and not because he means what he says and sings when he wants to make people think and question decisions of the awarded peacemakers...


Problem

#22
QuoteNot seeing what your first question is there for. I suppose you don't think writers won nobels for how they read their books.
Exactly, and that's why I don't think Dylan has won the prize for how he sings his songs, but for his writing.

QuoteI think it is a bad precedent which will further erode the worth of this category of nobel.
In my opinion it's quite the opposite. A songwriter winning in this category is first and foremost an acknowledgement that literature is a rich category that spans a wide spectrum of works. And it's not like this will happen again any time soon. The worst thing that could happen is what always happens - most people don't remember who has won the prize in 2015, 2014... and not even Bob Dylan will change that. Some people are getting mad, because for whatever reason they feel insulted by the decision... but again, this happens every year. Business as usual.

KyriakosCH

Quote from: Problem on Fri 14/10/2016 22:32:38
QuoteNot seeing what your first question is there for. I suppose you don't think writers won nobels for how they read their books.
Exactly, and that's why I don't think Dylan has won the prize for how he sings his songs, but for his writing.

QuoteI think it is a bad precedent which will further erode the worth of this category of nobel.
In my opinion it's quite the opposite. A songwriter winning in this category is first and foremost an acknowledgement that literature is a rich category that spans a wide spectrum of works. And it's not like this will happen again any time soon. The worst thing that could happen is what always happens - most people don't remember who has won the prize in 2015, 2014... and not even Bob Dylan will change that. Some people are getting mad, because for whatever reason they feel insulted by the decision... but again, this happens every year. Business as usual.

Not exactly. Point obviously was that a writer doesn't tie his text with any presentation of it by himself. Dylan sung those stuff, and he isn't Homer either; he is merely a pop song-writer. There already exist a great many contests/awards for songwriters, including special category for the lyrics themselves. Having this spill over to the nobel lit contest only makes the latter even less respectable now imo.
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Stupot

It's hard to think of song lyrics as poems. However, though I'm not a massive fan myself, Bob Dylan is the one of a few songwriters who I have heard referred to, by people who admire their work, as poets. No one is questioning whether he deserves recognition for the body of words he has written on pieces of paper over his carreer, just whether they can be classed as literature. But I think if you can class his songs as poems, and people do, then you have to class them as literature (I certainly remember poetry making up a certain percentage of my English Lit. Classes at school). Maybe students of the not-too-distant future will even be studying Bob Dylan in high schools (just after their History 101 class entitled 'WW3: lesson 1 - Trumps rise to power.')

Radiant

Quote from: KyriakosCH on Fri 14/10/2016 22:41:53Having this spill over to the nobel lit contest only makes the latter even less respectable now imo.
Even less? LOL, you're talking about one of the most prestigious and respectable awards in the world. (That's not counting the politics prize, which as stated before is fundamentally different from the traditional Nobel prizes).

Because yes, the standard definition of literature includes both poetry and drama. If you're not aware of what the word means, well that's on you. Here, have some background info.

Quote from: Stupot+ on Fri 14/10/2016 22:50:07
It's hard to think of song lyrics as poems.
That depends entirely on what kind of music you listen to.

Mandle

Quote from: Snarky on Fri 14/10/2016 15:28:39
In fact, the jury's rationale for him winning the prize is "for having created new poetic expressions within the great American song tradition".

Hmmmm... that's an interesting point: The word "within" suggesting that he won for his poetry, but not via the medium it was created in.

In that case I can accept it as the same case as a playwright winning based on their writing, not that me accepting it or not means anything. But I can understand now why you said you are good with it.

The matter of whether or not Mr. Dylan deserves to win even in this case is a matter of opinion though. I have none.

KyriakosCH

Quote from: Radiant on Fri 14/10/2016 23:03:12
Quote from: KyriakosCH on Fri 14/10/2016 22:41:53Having this spill over to the nobel lit contest only makes the latter even less respectable now imo.
Even less? LOL, you're talking about one of the most prestigious and respectable awards in the world. (That's not counting the politics prize, which as stated before is fundamentally different from the traditional Nobel prizes).

Because yes, the standard definition of literature includes both poetry and drama. If you're not aware of what the word means, well that's on you. Here, have some background info.


Very genius reply. Yes, i happen to know that poets have won this award loads of times. In fact only two nobels here in lit are to poets.

Anyway, giving an award to someone who seems a terrible choice is bound to make the award less respectable. The nobel in lit has been given for political reasons as much as any other one, btw.
This is the Way - A dark allegory. My Twitter!  My Youtube!

Snarky

Quote from: Mandle on Fri 14/10/2016 23:23:19
The matter of whether or not Mr. Dylan deserves to win even in this case is a matter of opinion though. I have none.

Yeah, I have no strong opinion on the merits of Bob Dylan's work as poetry/literature. He's not my favorite (I like "Tangled up in Blue" and "Subterranean Homesick Blues", for example, but loathe "Hurricane"), but poetry can be challenging to appreciate, and he's certainly well respected by many people who are actually experts in the field. Beyond that it comes down to personal taste. This whole "it's not literature because he writes songs" thing, though... That just strikes me as misdirected snobbery.

Anyone wanna post some favorite Dylan lyrics so we can see what the ruckus is all about?

BTW, about adventure games (or adventure game scripts) winning in the future... well, it'd have to be one hell of a script! Some sort of literary IF experience could very well qualify, though.

Quote from: KyriakosCH on Fri 14/10/2016 23:49:14
Anyway, giving an award to someone who seems a terrible choice is bound to make the award less respectable.

Just because you don't like his work doesn't mean he's a terrible choice. And there are always people who complain about the winners: there's just more of them this year because more people have heard of Bob Dylan than most other winners.

Stupot

Quote from: Radiant
Quote from: Stupot+ on Fri 14/10/2016 22:50:07
It's hard to think of song lyrics as poems.
That depends entirely on what kind of music you listen to.
Absolutely. And it's also going to vary person to person what kind of songs they may or may not consider poetry. Songwriters I have heard referred to as poets include Bowie, Cobain, Stevie Nicks, Eminem. I think what people mean when they say 'X is a poet' is not 'X writes poems' but that 'X's songs touch me in a way that a beautiful poem might.'

I guess the question is where to draw the line between a song and a poem. Is it the writer's intention? I coukd write something, publish it in a volume, say it out loud with no music at a poetry recital and call it a poem. Or I could take that same piece, write a few guitar riffs around it, get a band together, put on an album, perform it at a rock show and call it a song.

But regardless of the distinction between songs and poems, it's all the same words. So if you're judging solely on the written words of a song then it just as equally deserves to be considered 'literature' as any poem does.

RickJ

As Richard Feynman says, when you accomplish something you already have your prize, honors are meaningless.

Ali

None of William Blake's contemporaries though he was a poet either. But he was - a poet and a painter far behind his rightful times.

Snarky

Blake also used to perform some of his poems as songs.

KyriakosCH

I am of mixed view about Blake's poems. On the one hand he clearly has passages of very very striking intensity ("some are born to sweet delight, some are born to endless night" etc), on the other those poems as a whole don't seem to me to be particularly engaging. Parts are featuring a raw kind of power, as with that tiger poem. Not that this -seeming or not- inconsistency is only a Blake thing, of course.

Personally i am also not particularly fond of his painting. Again similar position as with his poems. :)
This is the Way - A dark allegory. My Twitter!  My Youtube!


Mandle

Quote from: Stupot+ on Tue 18/10/2016 05:14:22
Seems like the man himself doesn't want it :-/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/17/nobel-prize-committee-gives-up-trying-to-contact-bob-dylan/

Well, from reading that article it mostly seems that Bob Dylan just isn't that interested in self-promotion, but that he will show up briefly to do what he is expected to do and then duck out quickly again...

LOVE the quotes from Obama about how Bob dealt with the whole White House appearance...

I sense a serious touch of class about the dude from reading the whole article...

I hope he shows up at the Nobel Awards dinner, eats a few bites, talks to a few people, grabs his award and then just says he needs to take a leak before his speech, and then sneaks out the bathroom window to be whisked away... And then donates the prize money to some poetry scholarship...

Sounds like his style... And I can totally dig it!

Cassiebsg

Yeah, I kind of got the vibe that those "mundane" things are beyond him, and he might be a shy and reserved person, that just happens to love writing and singing, but hates being a celebrity with all that's attached.
He's not in it for the fame and glory. (nod)
There are those who believe that life here began out there...

Radiant

Quote from: Stupot+ on Tue 18/10/2016 05:14:22
Seems like the man himself doesn't want it :-/

Well, that's exceedingly nobel of him! Yeeaaaahh!

KyriakosCH

Maybe he is a cool person, but i was only speaking against the nobel committee (nod)

Besides, isn't Dylan roughly 100 years old? :=
This is the Way - A dark allegory. My Twitter!  My Youtube!

MiteWiseacreLives!

Quotehe is merely a pop song-writer.
I object to this. Pop != Rock & Roll.
I agree with the notion that others really performed many of his songs the best, therefor he is primarily a writer/poet.
Also, Tweeter and the Monkey Man performed by The Headstones. (I have also referred to Hugh Dillon as a poet :P )

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