AGS Awards votes close at 13:59 BST on Wednesday 07 March 2018. You've already voted, so you've got 10 days and 19 hours left to wait before voting closes!

Author Topic: Trumpmageddon  (Read 24110 times)

Scavenger

  • Cavefish
  • In Four Glorious Colours!
    • I can help with animation
    •  
    • I can help with backgrounds
    •  
    • I can help with characters
    •  
    • I can help with scripting
    •  
    • Scavenger worked on a game that was nominated for an AGS Award!
      Scavenger worked on a game that won an AGS Award!
Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #200 on: 16 Nov 2016, 20:15 »
So it almost sounds like you're saying it's possible to support a candidate while not simultaneously supporting all their policies?

I'm saying that in this election Hillary Clinton was by far the least awful option. Trump did have all of her aggression and more against other countries. And what would be the option? Not vote and let Trump get in? Vote for a third party that would only help Trump get into power because of the broken system?

It's like, why the hell would you vote for someone who doesn't even seem amenable to the least bit of criticism AND has more extreme views than the alternative? Yeah, I have my principles, but I'm not stupid. Pragmatically you'd have a better chance at convincing her than him, especially with the awful people he surrounds himself with.

Yes, it is possible to support a candidate you don't agree on 100% with, that's like, every candidate. But you gotta start with the one that is not wholly incompetent and running on a platform of bigotry.

Also, if there are so many people voting for Trump and also supporting people's rights, where are the "Trump voters for lobbying Trump to not start registering Muslims and deporting immigrants" campaigns?

Darth Mandarb

  • Evil Sith Lord
  • Mittens Vassal
  • AGS Baker
    • Lifetime Achievement Award Winner
    •  
    • Darth Mandarb worked on a game that was nominated for an AGS Award!
Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #201 on: 16 Nov 2016, 20:43 »
I'm saying that in this election Hillary Clinton was by far the least awful option.
You feel that way. Trump supporters do not.

Yes, it is possible to support a candidate you don't agree on 100% with
This is all I was hoping for.

Problem

  • Cavefish
    • I can help with animation
    •  
    • I can help with characters
    •  
    • I can help with making music
    •  
    • I can help with play testing
    •  
    • I can help with scripting
    •  
    • I can help with translating
    •  
Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #202 on: 16 Nov 2016, 21:09 »
If I have the choice between drones and nukes, I'll grudgingly take drones.

But let me try to explain why I have trouble understanding Trump voters:
Clinton's plans are pretty much more of the same compared to what Obama did. Some good, some bad. Clinton is the personified status quo, which is not a nice thing to say.
But then it's really hard for me to find anything about Trumps campaign that wasn't disgusting or frightening - insulting pretty much every minority was only the beginning, and it ended with him questioning the whole election unless he wins, which is quite simply a dictator's reasoning. I have yet to hear a single good explanation why this would be preferable, unless you're completely uninformed or you really believe that this attitude is an improvement over the status quo. And yes, if someone believes that, I'll oppose vehemently.

Now, I'm lucky. I'm white, male, straight, born in a wealthy country with a more or less liberal government. Jackpot! Nothing of this is my own achievement, but I could say that I don't care and that it won't be all bad, and it's all same and probably nothing will change in the long run. After all I'm not affected. Because, you know, luck. But this would only downplay a dangerous development (and it would make me an asshole by the way). What happens in the US has an effect on Europe. And we have our own racists, they are getting more and more powerful, and some are even worse than Trump will ever be. So the most dangerous thing you can do is underestimate the consequences. Maybe it won't get worse, maybe it will stop. But I wouldn't bet my money on it. And so, I'm deeply worried, and I have strong feelings against people who vote for someone like Trump just for the heck of it. Be it in the US, here in Germany, or anywhere else.
« Last Edit: 16 Nov 2016, 21:40 by Problem »

Scavenger

  • Cavefish
  • In Four Glorious Colours!
    • I can help with animation
    •  
    • I can help with backgrounds
    •  
    • I can help with characters
    •  
    • I can help with scripting
    •  
    • Scavenger worked on a game that was nominated for an AGS Award!
      Scavenger worked on a game that won an AGS Award!
Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #203 on: 16 Nov 2016, 22:15 »
You feel that way. Trump supporters do not.

Give me one thing Clinton campaigned for during the election that is as hateful and murderous as what Trump did every day and appointed people for. Not an economic thing, not the emails thing, but something that targeted a group of marginalised people with murderous rhetoric. Something that made people fear for their very lives and basic human rights. (oh, and it has to be something that Trump didn't say the same or worse about.)

It should be easy, if Trump voters truly were voting for what they believed to be the lesser of two evils, right?
« Last Edit: 16 Nov 2016, 22:29 by Scavenger »

Darth Mandarb

  • Evil Sith Lord
  • Mittens Vassal
  • AGS Baker
    • Lifetime Achievement Award Winner
    •  
    • Darth Mandarb worked on a game that was nominated for an AGS Award!
Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #204 on: 16 Nov 2016, 22:48 »
If I have the choice between drones and nukes, I'll grudgingly take drones.

Whenever I hear this I can't help but thinking, "should I use a 9mm pistol or my Star Wars laser blaster?"

Even if Trump was gung-ho to use nukes, the president cannot wake up in the middle of the night and press the button.

It's a little more complicated than that.

Can somebody link me to a direct quote (video would be better) where Trump says he wanted to use nukes? I googled and only found a bunch of accusations (with no evidence) and a bunch of quotes of him being very dumb about it and saying basically it would be the last thing he would do but he won't "take the cards off the table". He sounds, as usual, like he has no real idea what he's talking about but I didn't hear him say he wants/intends to use them, just that he would if he had to.

I'd like to hear/see him specifically say he intends to use them as this seems to the be the thing anti-Trump people are most concerned about.

Give me one thing Clinton campaigned for during the election that is as hateful and murderous as what Trump did every day and appointed people for. Not an economic thing, not the emails thing, but something that targeted a group of marginalised people with murderous rhetoric. Something that made people fear for their very lives and basic human rights.

Damn.

I thought we were past this.

Repeat: You really need to stop assuming that everybody thinks like you do.

You think Clinton's worst policies are better than Trump's best.

You think that. 

It's important to realize that you don't get to determine what even one single other person on this planet thinks.

It's just a fact.

Until you can accept that you're going to continue to be disappointed and angry and intolerant.

Scavenger

  • Cavefish
  • In Four Glorious Colours!
    • I can help with animation
    •  
    • I can help with backgrounds
    •  
    • I can help with characters
    •  
    • I can help with scripting
    •  
    • Scavenger worked on a game that was nominated for an AGS Award!
      Scavenger worked on a game that won an AGS Award!
Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #205 on: 16 Nov 2016, 23:02 »
Until you can accept that you're going to continue to be disappointed and angry and intolerant.

You keep calling me intolerant, but the only thing I'm intolerant of is bigotry. I know what bigotry is, I know the effect it's having on my American friends, and I know that not a single Trump supporter has come forward to say "Hey, I'll fight for the rights of the marginalised, now let's get Trump to not try to profile and deport people".

Okay then, give me how someone else thinks - explain to me their thought processes, so that I know how they overlooked all of Trump's really overt and hateful rhetoric and hiring choices (Like Mike "Gay Kid Torture Legislator" Pence during his campaign) and still think that Clinton is the worse one. Like, clearly I'm incapable of thinking like a Trump voter. Please, explain it to me. I really want to know.

Crimson Wizard

  • AGS Project Tracker Admins
    • Best Innovation Award Winner 2013, for spearheading the AGS 3.3.0 project
    •  
    • Lifetime Achievement Award Winner
    •  
    • Crimson Wizard worked on a game that was nominated for an AGS Award!
Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #206 on: 16 Nov 2016, 23:20 »
Okay then, give me how someone else thinks - explain to me their thought processes, so that I know how they overlooked all of Trump's really overt and hateful rhetoric and hiring choices (Like Mike "Gay Kid Torture Legislator" Pence during his campaign) and still think that Clinton is the worse one. Like, clearly I'm incapable of thinking like a Trump voter. Please, explain it to me. I really want to know.

I feel quite awkward jumping into discussion at this point (esp. as a complete stranger), but I was curious about similar thing recently, and occasionally found this article:
http://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/meet-lgbtq-voters-who-backed-trump-n684181

Just wanted to note that with multitude of interviews and surveys that might be easier to check those to know people's reasoning of choosing this or that candidate, rather then demanding Darth Mandarb to explain them.

« Last Edit: 16 Nov 2016, 23:55 by Crimson Wizard »

Darth Mandarb

  • Evil Sith Lord
  • Mittens Vassal
  • AGS Baker
    • Lifetime Achievement Award Winner
    •  
    • Darth Mandarb worked on a game that was nominated for an AGS Award!
Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #207 on: 16 Nov 2016, 23:36 »
You keep calling me intolerant, but the only thing I'm intolerant of is bigotry. I know what bigotry is, I know the effect it's having on my American friends, and I know that not a single Trump supporter has come forward to say "Hey, I'll fight for the rights of the marginalised, now let's get Trump to not try to profile and deport people".

You are intolerant to contrary viewpoints.

I mean I'm not even disagreeing with you that Trump is "bad" or that his policies are "evil and hate-filled" but yet, because I'm simply suggesting that other people might not think like you, you're lashing out at me.

I'm curious... Trump, like Clinton, supports continued use of targeted drone strikes. Are you contacting people to protest this? You suggested you would do that had Clinton won (since you support her but not that policy) so I'm curious if you're doing it now that Trump has won. Or would you only do that if the candidate you supported won the oval office?

What about Trump's stance on the TPP (which affects all of us, not just minorities)? Are you contacting people about this?

What about Trump's pro-life/pro-choice stance (which affects all of us, not just minorities)? Are you contacting people about this?

Or are you only concerned with the stuff that affects you?

Okay then, give me how someone else thinks - explain to me their thought processes, so that I know how they overlooked all of Trump's really overt and hateful rhetoric and hiring choices (Like Mike "Gay Kid Torture Legislator" Pence during his campaign) and still think that Clinton is the worse one. Like, clearly I'm incapable of thinking like a Trump voter. Please, explain it to me. I really want to know.

I've explained this several times already.

I've asked several questions and made several statements/points in this thread in the interests of understanding where you're coming from and you haven't addressed most of them.

You fixate on one part here or there that allows you to lash out (repetitively) in anger.

Scavenger

  • Cavefish
  • In Four Glorious Colours!
    • I can help with animation
    •  
    • I can help with backgrounds
    •  
    • I can help with characters
    •  
    • I can help with scripting
    •  
    • Scavenger worked on a game that was nominated for an AGS Award!
      Scavenger worked on a game that won an AGS Award!
Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #208 on: 16 Nov 2016, 23:57 »
I give up, I don't have the mental fortitude to keep fighting this. There's a thousand other things I could be doing to help, I'll do those instead.

Ali

  • What will become of the baron?
    • Ali worked on a game that was nominated for an AGS Award!
      Ali worked on a game that won an AGS Award!
Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #209 on: 16 Nov 2016, 23:58 »
Had she won, Clinton supporters would absolutely have had to accept that they supported the USA's appalling use of drones in Pakistan and elsewhere.
Would it be fair to say though that someone who voted for hillary for any reason at all, fully supports drone murder? That their intention is to kill syrians? That we should hate them for this?

It would be fair to say exactly what I said in that quote. They supported it. Would it be fair for a victim of a drone bomb to hate Clinton's supporters? I could certainly understand that. I haven't said that we should all hate Trump voters, I've said they have to accept their complicity in a most dangerous kind of bigotry.

Given that, I'd say it's fair to say that you support the continued use of drones to commit targeted killings if you support Clinton.

Yes, of course you do. If you hold your nose and vote for someone, you have to take the bad with the (in Clinton's case) less bad. But you can't make the 'lesser of two evils' argument when the candidate you're defending is, by any historical comparison, the greater evil.

I would have more sympathy if criticism of Clinton had focused more on her foreign policy and less on her bloody eeeeeeeeemails.

Here's Trump saying some stuff about nuclear weapons. I said he wanted to nuke ISIS - I apologise for that overstatement*. In fairness, he's at pains to make it clear that nuclear would be a last resort. In context he merely said he wouldn't rule it out for the Middle East, or Europe:


He was subsequently pressed on these issues and stood by his insistence that "Europe is a big place. I’m not going to take cards off the table.", and boasted of his unpredictability as a businessman.

That's not as clear cut as I made out. But it's hardly a case of warmonger versus peacemaker.

*or to put that apology in Trump's voice: "I never said that. Huge lie. It's really terrible this lying media, folks. Real shame."
« Last Edit: 17 Nov 2016, 00:20 by Ali »

Darth Mandarb

  • Evil Sith Lord
  • Mittens Vassal
  • AGS Baker
    • Lifetime Achievement Award Winner
    •  
    • Darth Mandarb worked on a game that was nominated for an AGS Award!
Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #210 on: 17 Nov 2016, 00:42 »
Yes, of course you do. If you hold your nose and vote for someone, you have to take the bad with the (in Clinton's case) less bad. But you can't make the 'lesser of two evils' argument when the candidate you're defending is, by any historical comparison, the greater evil.

Could you give more reasoning behind feeling the "lesser of two evils" argument can't be made here?

I would agree that it's pretty obvious (to me) that Trump is the greater evil but I still find Clinton to be "evil". So it would still be the lesser of two evils argument as far as my support for either would be concerned.

Not being argumentative, I'm genuinely curious.

Here's Trump saying some stuff about nuclear weapons. I said he wanted to nuke ISIS - I apologise for that overstatement*. In fairness, he's at pains to make it clear that nuclear would be a last resort. In context he merely said he wouldn't rule it out for the middle east, or Europe:

He was subsequently pressed on these issues and stood by his insistence that "Europe is a big place. I’m not going to take cards off the table.", and boasted of his unpredictability as a businessman.

It's interesting to me how you, who I know isn't prone to hyperbole, made that overstatement.

I'm not judging, just an observation.

We are all guilty of it from time to time (and you owned it, kudos).

I'm just saying it makes me wonder how often that happens in the modern world? Particularly with something as "global" as a presidential election.

A candidate says something, somebody else interprets it and repeats it (intentionally or unintentionally overstating or, worse, intentionally altering it to fit their agenda to make somebody look better/worse as needed) and then it runs amok on social/mainstream media and it becomes "fact" in many peoples' minds.

I've seen several instances of videos that are conveniently edited to make a person seem they said one thing but if you watch the video in its entirety and put those quotes in a larger context the meaning is totally different.

It's scary to me how easily this happens.

And people just accept it without fact-checking.

I mentioned it earlier (I think) about how it's so hard to sort through fact/fiction when researching a candidate these days.

That's not as clear cut as I made out. But it's hardly a case of warmonger versus peacemaker.

I have to think that every president has to have thought about the potential need to use nukes.

Is it a reality of being the leader of a nuclear powered country? I think it must be?

I think it's probably something previous presidents has the common-sense not to talk about publicly though.

I feel pretty sure I couldn't give the order if I were president. I mean maybe to try to knock an asteroid off course or something but not to annihilate human life. Gives me chills just doing the thought experiment.

Maybe I won't run for president in 2020 after all...

*or to put that apology in Trump's voice: "I never said that. Huge lie. It's really terrible this lying media, folks. Real shame."

I could actually hear his voice.
« Last Edit: 17 Nov 2016, 00:56 by Darth Mandarb »

LimpingFish

  • Mittens Serf
  • Boink!
    • LimpingFish worked on a game that was nominated for an AGS Award!
Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #211 on: 17 Nov 2016, 01:19 »
Like, clearly I'm incapable of thinking like a Trump voter.

Yes, you are. Just like I am, and just like most people who didn't want to see Trump in the White House are. That's why this current debate, which I think Darth is getting a lot of flack for and somewhat unfairly (though, it has to be said, intolerance to viewpoints and disagreeing with them, however strongly, are two vastly different things), has no resolution.

Leaving aside Nationalism/Racism/Sexism/Bigotry, how many mindsets can we divide the remaining Trump voters (and I have a feeling that this may be one of the largest parts of his voting demographic) into? The disenfranchised? The anti-Clinton? Anarchists? Bernie Saunders, who personally I would have liked to see nominated instead of Clinton, was asked, after pulling out of the race, was he now going to tell his supporters to vote for Clinton. He replied, "Vote with your heart." What are we to take from that? Was it a dig at Clinton? Was it a plea against Trump? Or was is simply a reminder to vote based on who you thought would make the better President. Well, America has chosen.

But who, and I want to know this too as I'm damn angry at them, are we looking to blame? Well, I'm angry that enough Americans didn't believe in the worries of, or simply didn't care about, their fellow countrymen. I'm angry that enough Americans didn't think that concrete evidence (regarding his lack of political experience and general suitability, not his personal views) was presented to deter them from voting Trump. And, yes, I believe that a pro-Trump vote was simply a thinly-veiled anti-Clinton vote, and, as such, was an incredibly reckless position for over fifty percent of Americans to take, however they felt about their political system. Reckless not just with their own future, but with that of the rest of the world, for which, I think, the rest of the world has a right to feel shafted.

So, I guess I'm angry at America herself.

As I said earlier, my opinion of America (and Americans) has changed (just as it did in 2008). But that change was coming throughout 2016, and this just capped it off. Is that unfair? Do I have a right to say America is a lesser country for having voted this man, and his rhetoric, into office? Ehhh.

I'll decry Trump and his supporters until I'm blue in the face, because that's who I am. But just as I feel I may be incapable of comprehending a non-racist/sexist/bigoted Trump vote, though I'm sure they exist, I can comprehend that these voters felt they were making the better choice. For who? Ask me again in four years.

I'm happy to make this my final word in this thread, since politics, along with Organized Religion, really shouldn't be discussed (at length) in respectable company, for fear of diversions into circular terrain. I humbly suggest others follow suit, as that rock is starting to look very familiar...

Jack

  • Think deviant
    • I can help with AGS tutoring
    •  
    • I can help with scripting
    •  
    • I can help with story design
    •  
Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #212 on: 17 Nov 2016, 01:40 »
Some stats and interpretations sourced from the mainstream media: The Numbers Show Trump Win NOT Due to Racism and Sexism

On the subject of stability, it seems 2016 offered the worst of choices: Where Was Hillary?

Problem

  • Cavefish
    • I can help with animation
    •  
    • I can help with characters
    •  
    • I can help with making music
    •  
    • I can help with play testing
    •  
    • I can help with scripting
    •  
    • I can help with translating
    •  
Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #213 on: 17 Nov 2016, 07:53 »
It's a little more complicated than that.
It is more complicated that that, and that's exactly why my post is ten times as long as the line you quoted. No, he's not going to nuke the planet. Great news. If you bothered to read what I have written instead of picking one flippant line, it should be absolutely clear that nukes are not my main concern. I explained how I feel about the election, how people are responsible for their vote and how you shouldn't underestimate the consequences of an election. I wrote about Trump, his campaign and what this election could mean for other countries and why it worries me. I talked about how easy it is to downplay policies if they don't seem to affect you. But if someone ignores pretty much everything I write and only picks the most convenient line, it's impossible to discuss. Sorry, but there's no point continuing like this, so I'm out.

Snarky

  • Global Moderator
  • Mittens Earl
  • Private Insultant
    • I can help with proof reading
    •  
    • I can help with translating
    •  
Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #214 on: 17 Nov 2016, 08:06 »
Even if Trump was gung-ho to use nukes, the president cannot wake up in the middle of the night and press the button.

It's a little more complicated than that.

The actual mechanics of it are a little more involved, but the president does in fact have unilateral power to launch nukes, and the military has to obey:

Quote
There are no restraints that can prevent a willful president from unleashing this hell.

If he gave the command, his executing commanders would have no legal or procedural grounds to defy it no matter how inappropriate it might seem. As long as the president can establish his or her true identity by his or her personal presence in the Pentagon’s nuclear war room or its alternates (places like Site R at Fort Richie near Camp David), or by phone or other means of communications linking him or her to these war rooms using a special identification card (colloquially known as “the biscuit” containing “the nuclear codes”) in his or her possession (or, alternatively, kept inside the “nuclear briefcase” carried by his or her military aide who shadows the president everywhere he or she works, travels and plays), a presidential nuclear decision is lawful (putting international humanitarian law aside). It must be obeyed as long as it is constitutional—i.e., the president as commander in chief believes he or she is acting to protect and defend the nation against an actual or imminent attack.

But within these broad constraints there is no wiggle room for evasion or defiance of the president’s orders. That’s true even if the national security adviser, the secretary of defense (who along with the president makes up the “national command authority”) and other top appointees and advisers disagree with the president’s decision. It does not matter whether the United States has already come under attack by nuclear or non-nuclear weapons. It does not even matter if the commander in chief simply orders the use of nuclear weapons on an ordinary day for reasons unknown to all but him or her. Under the president’s open-ended mandate to decide when the national interest is threatened, ordering up a nuclear strike is his or her prerogative, and obeying the order is incumbent upon the military servants of civilian authority.
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/06/2016-donald-trump-nuclear-weapons-missiles-nukes-button-launch-foreign-policy-213955

If he did so outside of a context that could be considered an immediate existential threat to the US, one would hope those around him would conclude that he'd gone insane and have him removed from office, but given the people he's surrounded himself with I wouldn't want to take that chance.
« Last Edit: 17 Nov 2016, 10:11 by Snarky »

Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #215 on: 17 Nov 2016, 09:52 »
When I read about all this, I wonder if anyone has suggested that USA should switch to a Parliamentary system?
It's hard too see the advantages of a two-party system when it boiled down to a very even race between two widely unliked candidates and a huge number of voters didn't even vote...

Darth Mandarb

  • Evil Sith Lord
  • Mittens Vassal
  • AGS Baker
    • Lifetime Achievement Award Winner
    •  
    • Darth Mandarb worked on a game that was nominated for an AGS Award!
Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #216 on: 17 Nov 2016, 13:44 »
It is more complicated that that, and that's exactly why my post is ten times as long as the line you quoted. No, he's not going to nuke the planet. Great news. If you bothered to read what I have written instead of picking one flippant line, it should be absolutely clear that nukes are not my main concern.

That one [flippant] line was the only one I felt compelled to respond to.

I wasn't really even responding to you specifically, just the over-all sentiment of that one line.

The rest of what you wrote was more of the same that's been said many times in this thread and I am tired of having the anti-trump propaganda shoved in my face when I've made it abundantly clear I did/do not support the man or his policies.

Please stop?

though, it has to be said, intolerance to viewpoints and disagreeing with them, however strongly, are two vastly different things

I agree.

I think, perhaps, I worded that poorly (maybe intolerant was the wrong word?).

It was more about the absolute refusal to accept that somebody could even have a contrary opinion and less about disagreeing with the specifics of that contrary opinion.

I'm happy to make this my final word in this thread, since politics, along with Organized Religion, really shouldn't be discussed (at length) in respectable company, for fear of diversions into circular terrain. I humbly suggest others follow suit, as that rock is starting to look very familiar...

This is very true.

We hate Trump because he's an intolerant hate machine.

So now that he's been elected we will show hatred and intolerance towards those that supported him.

Rinse.

Repeat.

Problem

  • Cavefish
    • I can help with animation
    •  
    • I can help with characters
    •  
    • I can help with making music
    •  
    • I can help with play testing
    •  
    • I can help with scripting
    •  
    • I can help with translating
    •  
Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #217 on: 17 Nov 2016, 14:09 »
The rest of what you wrote was more of the same that's been said many times in this thread and I am tired of having the anti-trump propaganda shoved in my face when I've made it abundantly clear I did/do not support the man or his policies.

Please stop?

So you really think that any of my posts "shoved propaganda in your face"? Wow. Well, that's your way of dealing with other people's opinions. Don't worry, I will stop explai bothering you with my propaganda now.

Darth Mandarb

  • Evil Sith Lord
  • Mittens Vassal
  • AGS Baker
    • Lifetime Achievement Award Winner
    •  
    • Darth Mandarb worked on a game that was nominated for an AGS Award!
Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #218 on: 17 Nov 2016, 15:06 »
So you really think that any of my posts "shoved propaganda in your face"? Wow. Well, that's your way of dealing with other people's opinions. Don't worry, I will stop explai bothering you with my propaganda now.

That is just hurtful. :(

Will you please answer the following question with just yes or no?

Do you accept that there are people on the planet who don't share your views/opinions/beliefs?
« Last Edit: 17 Nov 2016, 15:08 by Darth Mandarb »

Problem

  • Cavefish
    • I can help with animation
    •  
    • I can help with characters
    •  
    • I can help with making music
    •  
    • I can help with play testing
    •  
    • I can help with scripting
    •  
    • I can help with translating
    •  
Re: Trumpmageddon
« Reply #219 on: 17 Nov 2016, 15:19 »
Yes!

---
And I've never stated otherwise. My dear Sith Lord, I have a lot of respect for you, and until these last few posts this was a very interesting discussion. I don't want to be angry with anyone, but your "propaganda" post, and this last question really bother me. Are you sure you're not confusing me with someone else? I've expressed my worries, I've tried to explain why I tend to hold people responsible for their vote, and I explained why I oppose certain attitudes. But could you please quote a passage where I indicated that everybody has to share my opinion?