AGS Awards - Improvements for Nominations

[Cassiebsg]

Now that nominations are over, I would like to suggest adjusting the nomination forms for next year, if at all possible.

1) Separate the categories into a page for it self, allowing members to vote in each category on their own time, instead of doing it in "one go". (I left my browser open to be able to take breaks... but would be nice to able to nominate in small steeps, as looking at that huge list can be a bit overwhelming).

2) Once you select a name from the list, a "picture preview" could be shown on the right. Can be just 1 of the pictures that is already in the db. And a link to the game page. Sometimes a name doesn't quite ring a bell, so a visual queue and a link to the game page would very usefull.

3) That's about it... Though am sure others might have some other ideas.

(Sorry if I hijacked the thread... And I'll try to be there tomorrow. )

[Mandle]

3) That's about it... Though am sure others might have some other ideas.

I do... Would it be possible for the popup menu to remember where you were on the list and start from that point when you open the next popup in that category?

A lot of the time I wanted to scan down the list in order, and starting right from the top of quite a long list each time consumes a lot of time, as well as finding the point I was last up to.

Just an idea of course, but it might be nice if possible to do.

[Peder 🚀]

The current form actually puts me off nominating (and even voting too), it just feels way more tedious than it needs to be..

[Stupot]

I've also been a little put off in the past. I would still nominate, but it would be admittedly quite half-assed. This year, though, I found the time to put some effort into it (with the help of my handy little spreadsheet). I don't mind the current ststem but a more streamlined version would be welcome (anything that sees more people nominating would be a good thing).

[Mandle]

a more streamlined version would be welcome (anything that sees more people nominating would be a good thing).

Yeah, good point: The amount of effort and time that it takes to complete the form would turn off all but the most hardcore of us I would expect.

[cat]

Is it the nomination mode per se (i.e. picking up to 10 games per category) or just the UI that is bothersome? How could this be improved?

I don't think we can change the voting for this year, but suggestions for next year are certainly welcome.

[paolo]

Now that nominations are over, I would like to suggest adjusting the nomination forms for next year, if at all possible.

1) Separate the categories into a page for it self, allowing members to vote in each category on their own time, instead of doing it in "one go". (I left my browser open to be able to take breaks... but would be nice to able to nominate in small steeps, as looking at that huge list can be a bit overwhelming).

2) Once you select a name from the list, a "picture preview" could be shown on the right. Can be just 1 of the pictures that is already in the db. And a link to the game page. Sometimes a name doesn't quite ring a bell, so a visual queue and a link to the game page would very usefull.

3) That's about it... Though am sure others might have some other ideas.

(Sorry if I hijacked the thread... And I'll try to be there tomorrow. )

Cassiebsg - I agree. Nominating could be made easier and I think that would encourage more people to nominate. It took me maybe 15 minutes to transfer my nominations from the spreadsheet (thanks, Stupot+!) to the pulldown menus yesterday, and it felt like more of a chore than a pleasure. Tick boxes might have made it much quicker (although that would take up a lot more space and a little bit of programming would be necessary to ensure no more than 10 were selected).

Another suggestion: in each category, list only the games that are eligible for that category. Listing them all in every category means that there are commercial games under "Best freeware game", full games under "Best demo", etc. I know this would require a fair bit of work from whoever is organising the nominations, but I think it would make it a lot easier for everyone when it comes to nominating.

Just my ideas. Anyway, the nominations are NOW IN, and I can't wait to see who we will be voting for!

[Mandle]

So yeah, cat: That post that paolo pasted plus this that I added afterwards are the ideas suggested so far:

3) That's about it... Though am sure others might have some other ideas.

I do... Would it be possible for the popup menu to remember where you were on the list and start from that point when you open the next popup in that category?

A lot of the time I wanted to scan down the list in order, and starting right from the top of quite a long list each time consumes a lot of time, as well as finding the point I was last up to.

Just an idea of course, but it might be nice if possible to do.

[Radiant]

just the UI that is bothersome? How could this be improved?

The main problem with the UI is that you can reset all your nominations (by returning to the page and doing it all over again) but you cannot edit them (i.e. returning to the page AND seeing your previous selections).

[Cassiebsg]

Yeah, Gurok had also mentioned check boxes would be nice.
As in, you select a game from the list and then just check the boxes to the category you to nominate it to. Though this one will certainly be more troublesome to program, as you would need to be able to see and keep track of how many games one has nominated for each category.

Radiant has also a nice point, after all the time and effort one has put to fill in the nominations and has submitted, I doubt anyone will go back to redo it because you realize you made a mistake. It would be nicer if it either retrieved your nominations from the server, or stored them in a cookie, so the form would be like you left/submitted it when you return to it.

[selmiak]

just the UI that is bothersome? How could this be improved?

The main problem with the UI is that you can reset all your nominations (by returning to the page and doing it all over again) but you cannot edit them (i.e. returning to the page AND seeing your previous selections).

this!
this is very annoying!

my idea is to have a hub page with links to all different categories and nominate each category on a separate page for a start. this way you only delete one category and not everything when coming back (intentional or by accidental clicking a link). It would be supergreat to come back to one of the category pages and see your nominations and be able to edit them rather than having to fill them in again to a blank form where you can't remember exactly what you filled in before.
Only showing valid entries for each category would be the final thing to add as it involves human work (a lot!) and can't be automated that easy.

[Cassiebsg]

Only showing valid entries for each category would be the final thing to add as it involves human work (a lot!) and can't be automated that easy.

Only way to semi-automate this, was adding the categories for each game author to tick self. But have a feeling that a lot of authors would probably think that to be too troublesome to use, so either they would skip it or not add the game to the DB at all.

[Radiant]

Since we're discussing this, an issue from some time ago is that a lot of voters seem to be unclear on what exactly "best character art" is supposed to be for. Is it portrait art (and if so, why not call it that?) Is it character animation (and if so, how is that different from "best animation"?) Is it something else or does it depend on the game?

Looking over the past few years, BCA and BA tend to get mostly the same nominations, and have consistently had the same winner for the past four years. Food for thought?

[Cassiebsg]

I can see how it can be confusing, but I don't see how character art and best animation aren't two different categories. You can had a pretty ugly/bad character while all your animations are top notch and smooth.

I think the "problem" is they blend, just like most art and animation. It's hard to judge things individually when you play a game in it's "hole". And there's no way to go around this as far as I can see...

[LimpingFish]

I think we end up discussing category definitions every year, and we always seem to come to the conclusion that you'll never satisfy everybody.

The definitions we have at the moment are adequate for what the awards are trying to accomplish, and more categories would likely be a hindrance rather than a help. I don't think I'm out of line when I say that voting numbers tend to be at the lower end of the scale, and spreading them out over extra categories would likely make the organizer's job harder than it already is. I believe this is one of the reasons that the separate music and sound effects categories were consolidated into a single award in recent years, as the SFX category consistently experienced a lower than average number of valid nominees.

Having said that, I can see what Radiant means when he raises the point about Best Character Art; an award which, on the surface, seems to only apply to those games that utilize "Sierra-style" portraits. Out of all the art awards, leaving aside specific definitions, this would appear to be the least necessary category, and the most likely, in my opinion, to be considered for consolidation or removal.

As for the nomination/voting UI, I can see benefit of having a system where users can make edits and refinements over multiple sessions, but I'm also aware of the limitations that apply to a system that's provided and implemented on a voluntary basis.

[Radiant]

The definitions we have at the moment are adequate for what the awards are trying to accomplish,

I'm not aware that we have definitions of any of the awards. Is this written down somewhere?

The solution may be as easy as giving an existing award a new name for the upcoming year.

[cat]

I think character art applies to both, the character themselves and portraits if available. Remember, not all games have or need portraits. The Journey of Iesir for example does a great job in showing character emotions without portraits (and I actually prefer this over portraits).

I also don't think that best background art and character art are necessarily interchangeable. It just happens that many games that have good graphic artists are good at both aspects. Last year for example, there were different games nominated for these categories.

[Danvzare]

I think character art applies to both, the character themselves and portraits if available. Remember, not all games have or need portraits. The Journey of Iesir for example does a great job in showing character emotions without portraits (and I actually prefer this over portraits).

Agreed. After all, I've seen some really incredible character art in games without portraits. But there might not be anything special about the animations on the art.
That being said, if people are having trouble recognizing that, then maybe consolidating them into one category could be for the best.
I wouldn't mind their being a "Best character art and animation" category.

[LimpingFish]

I'm not aware that we have definitions of any of the awards. Is this written down somewhere?

Sorry, I should have worded that better. What I meant was the generally accepted meaning of the award, as denoted by it's name. As has been pointed out, the term "Character Art" should ideally be understood to encompass both character sprites and portraits, since above-average animation is not a requirement in having well-rendered figures or faces. Hence the separate animation category.

But, like I said, I understand the possibilities for confusion, in that it may be too easy to assume that the award only applies to games which have character close-ups, and I agree that "official" clarification might avoid any misunderstandings.

Having thought about it a bit longer, I think we've actually honed the visual award categories to a pretty absolute point, without going whole hog and simply consolidating BCA and BBA into a single "Best Art" award and being done with it.

But that would be crazy! ¬¬