Pro- or Anti-Antivirus?

Started by Khris, Fri 07/04/2017 10:08:06

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Khris

@abstauber
I'm still running Win 7 on my main machine, and afaik, using AV software is recommended in that case. You don't need it for Win 10 though. (I read this in an article by security experts complaining about various AV programs messing up Chrome's internal security, but I'm too lazy to go looking for it now.)

The best defense against viruses is between your ears anyway  :-D

Danvzare

Quote from: Khris on Fri 07/04/2017 10:08:06
I'm still running Win 7 on my main machine, and afaik, using AV software is recommended in that case. You don't need it for Win 10 though.
If you've got Windows 10, install Antivirus software. I don't care what any article says, do it.

Heck, if you've got Linux installed, I still suggest installing Antivirus software. Sure there aren't many viruses on Linux, but if you ever transfer files from a Linux computer to a Windows one, then you're going to want Antivirus software to be able screen those files.

abstauber

#2
Maybe we should discuss AV matters in a different topic, even though the latest addition made me chuckle quite a bit :)

--edit: AV matters as in: useful or not.

Khris

Quote from: Danvzare on Fri 07/04/2017 11:46:58If you've got Windows 10, install Antivirus software. I don't care what any article says, do it.
Sure, because you're clearly more knowledgeable about security issues than the people who work on Chrome.

And regarding Win 10, I meant to say "in addition to Defender".

morganw

Windows Defender in Windows 10 incorporates what was previously Security Essentials. It's full realtime anti-virus supplied by the OS vendor. If you want to install something else that replaces or bypasses built-in OS protection and uses its own you can do, but this also has the ability to make the situation a lot worse.
https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.co.uk/2016/06/how-to-compromise-enterprise-endpoint.html

If you don't want real-time scanning, ClamAV is free and cross-platform.
Personally, I would ignore any stats you read on detection rates.
For Windows 7, I would just install Security Essentials.

Gurok

#5
Like Morgan said, something like ClamAV should be good enough. I would go as far to say that having a resident anti-virus at all isn't worthwhile. Scan executable files coming in. If you're suspicious about something, sandbox it. I don't use Windows Security Essentials / Defender or any other resident scanner. I turn Defender off with a group policy.

I think it's fine if people want to have Norton or Avast running on their system. (I mention these because they're particularly obnoxious.) I get annoyed when people talk about compatibility issues. Why should someone need to make their software compatible with your resident anti-virus? A good anti-virus should allow normal operation of non-malicious programs designed for the operating system.

Edit: Forgot to mention. People who still use anti-virus software, particularly 3rd party software, should check with Virus Total whenever the software finds a virus. False positives are more common than you think. This is another problem associated with anti-virus software: the software is fallible, but the users think it isn't.

I am firmly ANTI anti-virus. PRO in the right contexts: user-invoked scanning and a composite of results from multiple scanners where possible.

@Khris: On Chrome and anti-virus software:
http://www.cso.com.au/article/617316/antivirus-headaches-compromise-browser-security/
[img]http://7d4iqnx.gif;rWRLUuw.gi

Danvzare

Quote from: Gurok on Sat 08/04/2017 11:18:46
I think it's fine if people want to have Norton or Avast running on their system. (I mention these because they're particularly obnoxious.)
Just to clarify. Even though I recommend always having an anti-virus installed. If your choices are between those two, then I'll gladly take back that statement. Norton is worse than any virus I've ever had.

I'd say what I use, but this isn't the thread for recommending antivirus programs is it.

Quote from: Khris on Fri 07/04/2017 13:31:13
Quote from: Danvzare on Fri 07/04/2017 11:46:58If you've got Windows 10, install Antivirus software. I don't care what any article says, do it.
Sure, because you're clearly more knowledgeable about security issues than the people who work on Chrome.

And regarding Win 10, I meant to say "in addition to Defender".
I didn't know Win 10 already had a decent anti-virus in it... still, Microsoft is terrible at making everything, so I still would replace it with something better.

I also find it very hard to believe that Chrome works better with only the default anti-virus installed, but if they say so, then I suppose it must be true. But it also means those developers are really getting lazy when it comes down to working on the security features of Chrome.
Remind me to switch back to Firefox if I ever move to Windows 10. (laugh)

Cassiebsg

I've used AV since my dad brought one from his work, since then we used McAfee... up untill... uhm.... 12-15 years ago? When McAfee started being more of a pain rather than an asset.

I say you're the best anti-virus you can have! Iif you follow certain rules, like not open suspicious files, or random files your friends/family/strangers send to your email, have a decent browser with java/flash/and all the crap turned off, then you are fairly safe to not get a virus!
Use an online scanner once in a while...

So, I can say that in my life I had 2 virus. The one my father brought, and the one a young cousin sent me (and I broke my own rule of not opening suspicious files in email). Haven't used an AV since I dropped McAfee.  (roll)
There are those who believe that life here began out there...

Snarky

Quote from: Danvzare on Sat 08/04/2017 12:01:49
still, Microsoft is terrible at making everything, so I still would replace it with something better.


Danvzare

Quote from: Snarky on Sat 08/04/2017 12:21:57
Quote from: Danvzare on Sat 08/04/2017 12:01:49
still, Microsoft is terrible at making everything, so I still would replace it with something better.


You just have to look at how Windows deals with the registry compared to Linux and MacOS to realise how many corners Microsoft cuts.
I formed that opinion way waaaaaaaaay before I got onto the internet and realised it was a meme (although I suppose back then I had nothing to support that opinion).

To my knowledge Microsoft has only ever made two things that actually work. The original Xbox, and Age of Empires. And they only published the latter.

I mean, they ruined Rare!
That's how terrible they are! They took a great company and ruined it!

abstauber

Windows runs AGS. This is a plus (nod)

Any other OS is prone to security issues (zero day exploits, virusses etc.) as well. They are just not that common, so it doesn't make much sense to create malware for those.

Windows NT and Windows 2000 were also very solid OSes btw. Not to mention that .net is also very nice to work with.

Snarky

Yeah, .Net and C# are good examples of excellent Microsoft products. The Zune was also a very good music player, and according to a friend of mine, Windows Phone is a better smartphone OS than either iOS or Android. Just to take a few examples.

No operating system is perfect, and all companies as big as Microsoft makes some sucky products.

LimpingFish

Quote from: Snarky on Tue 11/04/2017 12:17:19
...Windows Phone is a better smartphone OS than either iOS or Android.

I can attest to that.

In answer to the topic question, I agree that common sense is the best form of virus protection.

I do like a good firewall, though.
Steam: LimpingFish
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Spotify: LimpingFish

CrashPL

#13
Quote from: Khris on Fri 07/04/2017 10:08:06
@abstauber
The best defense against viruses is between your ears anyway  :-D

This.
Being a QA/security engineer, I can definitely agree that the best defense against all sorts of viruses, phishing and exploits is your common sense. Personally I don't have any AV installed by default - I'm using Hiren's boot CD every once in a while to do a complete system scan. The only thing I'm actively using, apart from that default Windows Defender thingy, is NoScript/uBlock plugins for the broswer. Oh, and my HDD's encrypted too. Been rolling like this for several years now, and I'm still alive and kicking. ;)

As for the Microsoft debate - sure, they did a lot of, um, questionable products (remember Windows ME?), but I believe they do have a fair share of quality stuff. As Snarky pointed out, C# and .NET are a good example of really excellent products (I'd go as far, as saying that most of their programming tools are (or was) really good - Visual Studio, Azure Platform, the XNA engine...), plus I've been using a WP8.1 phone for 3 years now, and never had a serious problem with it (sure, it rebooted several times by itself, but still much less than my nVidia Shield tablet /w Android... which I own for 2 years).

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