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Author Topic: What breaks your immersion?  (Read 3178 times)

Mandle

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Re: What breaks your immersion?
« Reply #20 on: 27 Aug 2017, 12:17 »
Instead, this is an old trope from when most writers considered women to be the weaker/fairer sex who wouldn't be able to fight a real man, and then it stuck because they thought it unfair to hit a lady.

I always thought they wrote in the hot-girl on hot-girl fight for the sexy value.

Cl...

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Re: What breaks your immersion?
« Reply #21 on: 27 Aug 2017, 12:31 »
I always thought they wrote in the hot-girl on hot-girl fight for the sexy value.

Re: What breaks your immersion?
« Reply #22 on: 27 Aug 2017, 15:05 »
Hot Fuzz is an awesome movie, it makes great parody of tons of action and police-movie tropes!

Speaking of parody, one thing that I'm tired of seeing in adventure games is intentionally dumb and convoluted puzzles making fun of dumb and convoluted puzzles. Having the protagonist pointing out how dumb and irritating a puzzle is doesn't automatically make it fun, the player is still forced to do a stupid puzzle, except the programmer knew it was stupid and still put it there. One example that comes to mind is this scene in The Whispered world. That puzzle was not fun and did not feel rewarding to solve, it just yanked me out of the story.

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Re: What breaks your immersion?
« Reply #23 on: 27 Aug 2017, 15:08 »
Having the protagonist pointing out how dumb and irritating a puzzle is doesn't automatically make it fun, the player is still forced to do a stupid puzzle, except the programmer knew it was stupid and still put it there.
They do it because it's the easy way.

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Re: What breaks your immersion?
« Reply #24 on: 27 Aug 2017, 17:24 »
To get back to adventure games, I don't like when games ask people to look for their own keys (to get out of your house/ start your car).
This. This is the most boring way to start a game. And no, this does not get me closer to the protagonist, I don't enjoy looking at stuff in an apartment of an unknown person without no reason and I play adventure games because I want interesting stories and puzzles. The first few minutes are the most important ones of a game, don't fill them with random errands.

What breaks my immersion in adventure games is when dialogue/conversation options don't update to reflect things that have happened in the game. Like, if you've discovered in the course of the game that your neighbor is a serial killer and have had him arrested, the next time you talk to your doorman, that topic might come up, maybe?
And that. This is so important. I hate it when I have to find a certain item and after finding and using the item, I can still ask everyone where to find that item. Many developers are too lazy to fix this. But actually, you just have to turn some dialog options on and off.

Re: What breaks your immersion?
« Reply #25 on: 27 Aug 2017, 22:16 »
Hot Fuzz is an awesome movie, it makes great parody of tons of action and police-movie tropes!

Speaking of parody, one thing that I'm tired of seeing in adventure games is intentionally dumb and convoluted puzzles making fun of dumb and convoluted puzzles. Having the protagonist pointing out how dumb and irritating a puzzle is doesn't automatically make it fun, the player is still forced to do a stupid puzzle, except the programmer knew it was stupid and still put it there. One example that comes to mind is this scene in The Whispered world. That puzzle was not fun and did not feel rewarding to solve, it just yanked me out of the story.

Yeah, this thing of trying to be ironic and ripping on bad design while using bad design really makes one want to punch the dev in the face. :D

Stupot

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Re: What breaks your immersion?
« Reply #26 on: 28 Aug 2017, 00:15 »
What breaks my immersion in adventure games is when dialogue/conversation options don't update to reflect things that have happened in the game. Like, if you've discovered in the course of the game that your neighbor is a serial killer and have had him arrested, the next time you talk to your doorman, that topic might come up, maybe?

On a similar note. When you've exhausted all conversation with a character but they hang around in the same location until the end of the game. It's annoying because you have to keep clicking on the character to see if they have anything new but they don't ("Hello, I wanted a word" "Certainly, how can I help?" "That's all, goodbye"). Unless they are a barman or unless they have some recipie or clue that you need to listen to again, there's no point in that character being there anymore, especially if hours and days have passed in game time. Surely they have a home to go to.

Re: What breaks your immersion?
« Reply #27 on: 05 Sep 2017, 13:02 »
I came to think about another big thing which breaks my immersion, and that is when a story that takes place in a historical/fantasy setting have female characters walking around in public with long hair past their shoulders. Until very recently, an adult person walking around with their head uncovered wouldn't be considered fully clothed, and everyone in the western world, with the exception of young children and sometimes unmarried virgins, would have some form of veil or hat covering their head outdoors and in public, and women would have their hair tied up in a bun or braided. To a medieval person, a grown woman walking around with her hair out would be the equivalent of someone in modern times walking around in their pyjamas.

However, this wasn't done simply for modesty reasons, as someone who has long hair I can tell from experience that if I don't tie it back, it's virtually impossible to do any physical work or exercise without risking my hair getting caught on something or getting in my eyes. If you also take into account that before electricity was a thing, people relied on candles and torches, long hair flowing free would be a real security risk, so every time I see a movie or fantasy illustration of a woman running around with long hair hanging down, it breaks my immersion.

Crimson Wizard

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Re: What breaks your immersion?
« Reply #28 on: 05 Sep 2017, 13:15 »
Nothing breaks immersion more for me than the absurdic stupidity of characters and similarily absurdic structure design ... ( *cough* "Alien: Covenant" *cough* )
« Last Edit: 05 Sep 2017, 13:23 by Crimson Wizard »

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Re: What breaks your immersion?
« Reply #29 on: 05 Sep 2017, 13:28 »
To a medieval person, a grown woman walking around with her hair out would be the equivalent of someone in modern times walking around in their pyjamas.
I have actually seen people walking around in their pyjamas... several times in fact. Almost enough to make me question whether or not it's a new fad. ???

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Re: What breaks your immersion?
« Reply #30 on: 05 Sep 2017, 13:36 »
Or the stupidity of the world in general. Watched "the Hitman's Bodyguard" recently and because of a bit at the start the whole movie was sort out rendered pointless to me (and then at the end where they doubled down on similar stupidity and double ruined it).
The start has some dictator at the Hague being tried for war crimes and a witness describing how the dictator came to his house and murdered his family and imprisoned him. The defence then objected because there was no evidence for that, and it was all hearsay. And the judge sustained it.
And all the while I was thinking "The guy just GAVE evidence, and it was the literal opposite of hearsay!"

Oh well, was a pretty bland movie otherwise too.
« Last Edit: 05 Sep 2017, 13:43 by Babar »
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Re: What breaks your immersion?
« Reply #31 on: 05 Sep 2017, 15:08 »
I came to think about another big thing which breaks my immersion, and that is when a story that takes place in a historical/fantasy setting have female characters walking around in public with long hair past their shoulders. Until very recently, an adult person walking around with their head uncovered wouldn't be considered fully clothed, and everyone in the western world, with the exception of young children and sometimes unmarried virgins, would have some form of veil or hat covering their head outdoors and in public, and women would have their hair tied up in a bun or braided. To a medieval person, a grown woman walking around with her hair out would be the equivalent of someone in modern times walking around in their pyjamas.

However, this wasn't done simply for modesty reasons, as someone who has long hair I can tell from experience that if I don't tie it back, it's virtually impossible to do any physical work or exercise without risking my hair getting caught on something or getting in my eyes. If you also take into account that before electricity was a thing, people relied on candles and torches, long hair flowing free would be a real security risk, so every time I see a movie or fantasy illustration of a woman running around with long hair hanging down, it breaks my immersion.

Good point, but to anyone who's just remotely interested in history, any depiction of the middle ages will appear quite ridiculous. You have to take it all with a grain of salt, really.
How there are burning torches or candles everywhere, how armour looks like modern-day goth-punk outfits, how everyone is clean, how bows are really easy to draw and shoot, how building fires is easy to do, how nobody is always cold during winter, how hardly anyone is ridden with skin diseases or rotting teeth, how people survive with wounds instead of dying from sepsis, and so on, and so forth...

Crimson Wizard

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Re: What breaks your immersion?
« Reply #32 on: 05 Sep 2017, 15:56 »
how nobody is always cold during winter

How could I forgot, this is something I get easily triggered about (and loose immersion instantly). Maybe because I live in relatively cold climate :).

I remember playing Skyrim, the game supposedly about a very cold place. Entering town called Winterhold, with stone buildings, stone walls, stone pavement everywhere, and snow, lots of snow. Immersion is good in that game, so I can say that I feel how cold should be there. And then - there is a homeless pauper who does not have any shoes, and sleeps on some kind of thin blanket on the street! This person would be dead next morning in real life.
Same thing with bandits walking around with naked torsos, wooden houses on the mountain ridges with holes and missing boards everywhere (just imagining the winds going through the living room makes me shiver).

Hah, and in one of the latest episodes of the Game of Thrones when John Snow goes off with his team to catch a zombie (dumb idea on its own), these guys go into the blizzard, and no one is covering their frigging head! Some of them were even bald, so no natural protection either. They would come back with their noses and ears frozen off (in best case, lol).
« Last Edit: 05 Sep 2017, 15:59 by Crimson Wizard »

Re: What breaks your immersion?
« Reply #33 on: 05 Sep 2017, 16:37 »
  how everyone is clean, how hardly anyone is ridden with skin diseases or rotting teeth, how people survive with wounds instead of dying from sepsis, and so on, and so forth...
While it is true that they didn't have sinks and showers or deodorant during the middle ages, I think many historical movies take it too far in the opposite direction,
where people look like they have been literally rolling in filth. Even if cleanliness standards were lower than today, I'm pretty sure medieval people wouldn't pick dung
off the ground and smear in their faces, yet several actors look like they have done exactly that before they started filming. :-X

If anyone is interested, here is a link with descriptions on how people actually managed their hygiene in history.
how nobody is always cold during winter

How could I forgot, this is something I get easily triggered about (and loose immersion instantly). Maybe because I live in relatively cold climate :).
...
Hah, and in one of the latest episodes of the Game of Thrones when John Snow goes off with his team to catch a zombie (dumb idea on its own), these guys go into the blizzard, and no one is covering their frigging head! Some of them were even bald, so no natural protection either. They would come back with their noses and ears frozen off (in best case, lol).

I also think many movies and video games get it wrong, like when Jon Snow falls into icy water and just gets up and keeps going, in real life he would have to take of his wet clothes and start a fire immediately or risk hypothermia.

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Re: What breaks your immersion?
« Reply #34 on: 05 Sep 2017, 16:54 »
To a medieval person, a grown woman walking around with her hair out would be the equivalent of someone in modern times walking around in their pyjamas.
I have actually seen people walking around in their pyjamas... several times in fact. Almost enough to make me question whether or not it's a new fad. ???
You hang out a lot at Walmart don't you. That is almost daily event at Walmart.

What gets me out of the immersion is when I play a character in an adventure game that has forgotten who they are, then they walk around town and remember who everyone else is.
« Last Edit: 05 Sep 2017, 16:57 by dayowlron »
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Re: What breaks your immersion?
« Reply #35 on: 05 Sep 2017, 19:10 »
I came to think about another big thing which breaks my immersion, and that is when a story that takes place in a historical/fantasy setting have female characters walking around in public with long hair past their shoulders. Until very recently, an adult person walking around with their head uncovered wouldn't be considered fully clothed, and everyone in the western world, with the exception of young children and sometimes unmarried virgins, would have some form of veil or hat covering their head outdoors and in public, and women would have their hair tied up in a bun or braided. To a medieval person, a grown woman walking around with her hair out would be the equivalent of someone in modern times walking around in their pyjamas.

It's a fair point, but history is long and the "Western world" is packed with different peoples and traditions, so I'm strongly inclined to believe that there has been considerable variation in this matter. Can you say with absolute confidence that it applies universally, in every place, every tribe, every time (until relatively recently), for Christian, Jew and pagan, at every level of society?

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Re: What breaks your immersion?
« Reply #36 on: 05 Sep 2017, 20:00 »
For me in sci-fi/fantasy, it's the use of idioms, words and phrases that don't make sense in the story world. I've been complaining about an orc saying the word "menu" for years, then recently someone made a meme about it and went viral. And I sulked.

Re: What breaks your immersion?
« Reply #37 on: 05 Sep 2017, 20:42 »
It's a fair point, but history is long and the "Western world" is packed with different peoples and traditions, so I'm strongly inclined to believe that there has been considerable variation in this matter. Can you say with absolute confidence that it applies universally, in every place, every tribe, every time (until relatively recently), for Christian, Jew and pagan, at every level of society?
While there have been some exceptions, most cultures have either worn their hair short or tied back, in the Islamic world many of the women wear veils or headscarves, viking women are depicted wearing their hair in knotted buns, with cloth tied around their hair outdoors, most images of Chinese and Japanese women have them wear different combinations of braids and buns, and many native american women and men wear their long hair in braids so the idea isn't exclusive for medieval Europe. And medieval Jews were often even required by law to wear special hats that marked them as Jews, and as far as I know orthodox Jews have very strict rules about what to wear, and that includes women not showing off their hair. Wearing an elaborate hairstyle have also been a universal sign of wealth for a long time, just like wearing fancy clothes and jewelry.

Now, there have been exceptions, but they have been relatively rare, and many of the historical pictures that show women with long loose hair are showing them in a situation where they aren't concerned with appearance or practicality, such as resting or lounging in their home or garden. In some pictures it was a way of showing that they were in mourning or otherwise had neglected grooming themselves, akin to showing a man with a five'o clock shadow.

Now, while fantasy does take place in it's own world with it's own rules, most of it is very closely based on medieval Europe, so therefore it's jarring to me to see characters wear costumes that look very medieval, but hairstyles that wouldn't have been accepted in the middle ages. And TV-shows and Movies that are actually set in a real historical time period has no excuse. Then there are also the practicality reasons I mentioned before, having the hair tied back and hidden under some headwear is a great way of keeping it clean and protecting it from the elements, and it's hard to clean your hair without access to modern showers and shampoo.

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Re: What breaks your immersion?
« Reply #38 on: 06 Sep 2017, 00:43 »
@Blondbraid. I think devs would be happy to consider your complaints. Animating long hair must be a ball-ache, so any excuse not to have to do it would be welcome.

Andail

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Re: What breaks your immersion?
« Reply #39 on: 06 Sep 2017, 07:54 »
To expand on my own rant:
Typically in popular culture, bows are considered the weapon of choice for the lean, agile types, and predominantly women. In reality, a bow of the kind used in medieval warfaring could have a draw weight of 150 pounds and upwards, and drawing them looks like this:
https://youtu.be/33LNnyqiQcs?t=120
... meaning, you pretty much draw and immediately release while rupturing your spleen or something. Back then, you wouldn't have any weight-reducing pulley/cam system, and also you didn't have the razor-blade heads seen on modern arrows, that can kill much easier.

And here's the popular culture version: