Author Topic: What is wrong with the adventure games genre?  (Read 4612 times)

What is wrong with the adventure games genre?
« on: 10 Jan 2018, 12:03 »
I can't figure out how this:

is not very popular yet.

For 2 years - only 7K views. I don't want to compare the stats with something similar from another game genre but the difference will be huge.

I know that this topic is old, but these days I'm feeling very low about the whole situation with the games, AGS, AGS engine and everything related.
I tried to make some retouchings of my old games with the new AGS. I went very bad. I can't even compile the games.

I moved from AGS to browser based (HTML, CSS, JS), because I thought that people are not playing .exe games anymore but I was wrong.
I made an online browser based adventure game demo (several rooms) - https://www.cq-game.com/cq5/demo.html
To be honest - the interest is low. Maybe my game is the problem.

So I really wanna know... How can we spend so much time and efforts... It takes years of creating something that will be played by 10-20-30 people?
For me, it was the magic of moving a character over something that you draw... to create a worlds. But it was.

Over the years I made 4 games. With every new game release the interest was lower and lower.
I know things are changing, new genres, new people, new visions.

Is everyhting that bad?
   



« Last Edit: 10 Jan 2018, 12:49 by Iliya »

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Re: What is wrong with the adventure games genre?
« Reply #1 on: 10 Jan 2018, 13:05 »
If you want to make something that's used by millions of people, look for the lowest common denominator. You won't like what you have to do one bit, though.

Ali

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Re: What is wrong with the adventure games genre?
« Reply #2 on: 10 Jan 2018, 13:57 »
Without wanting to criticise that video, adventure games are fine. Look at Firewatch, or Life is Strange.

That remake has nice graphics, and is a decent proof-of-concept. But it's misconceived in my view. Pointing and clicking is fast - walking very slowly from place to place to read big chunks of (unvoiced) text is not so much fun - and even less fun to watch. Where is the interactivity? The first thing the player does kills them. If you haven't played Space Quest, this would be incomprehensible. I'm sure you can find dozens of boring FPS shooter and minecraft clone tech demos on YouTube.

Making games and finding an audience is hard, and can be unfair. But I also think very few people succeed by trying to do what is popular.

m0ds

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Re: What is wrong with the adventure games genre?
« Reply #3 on: 10 Jan 2018, 14:11 »
I hear ya. Point & clicks are outright clunk that only a handful of people are willing to put up with. Just try something a bit more casual. If you're sticking with point and click then reel in the interface and use a simpler method ie two click so that casual audiences can play it without getting pissed off at multiple verbs and inventory use laden gameplay. You want to tell a good story, then people will pass this on, pick it up, play it. Don't block a good story behind a 9 verb interface, tell that story as freely as you can. Be intuitive sure, but don't block people behind tough or nonsensical puzzles, make sure they know where they're heading and how to get there. I feel the mechanics of point and click games can effectively become nichés within a niché. I won't play anything with a 9 verb interface anymore, that particular method, design choice, is a niché within the niché. And I'm just not that nichéy ...

The larger audience do need a bit of "hand holding". Whether that's through simpler mechanics and interfaces or hints & tips during a game... That's just how it is today. The game > walkthrough factor is higher than it ever was, back in the day we had to go to actual shops to find the game guides, today you just Alt+Tab to Google. But you don't want your audience to leave your game. EA and other massive publishers have horrible systems in place to reduce that, for folks like you and me it's just about making the game engaging and not too difficult. If you can tier your difficulty, easy, normal, hard etc then that's probably even better. Younger audiences want more rewards, on-screen "juice" I think it was referred to around here recently, and you can ignore that or you can get used to it and start including it, or at least a little more of it, in your games.

I'd say the point n click genre is really showing its age now. But it's not the games fault. It's just the more the world becomes streamlined the less appealing the not very streamlined point n click experience stands out. Being a bit more casual, maybe a bit more linear, is how you reach larger audiences. if that doesn't work for you then don't do it, but don't moan when you have only 20 players of your clunky point & click. I know some people like walls of text (as seen in that Space Quest video) but MOST people don't. So if you're going to cater for the "some" people and not the "most" people, again that's no-ones fault but your own.

Quote
Firewatch, or Life is Strange.

You couldn't get much further from a clunky point & click than with these 2 games... But they are great examples of providing a good story in a fluid manner. Alongside Ali's point, I'd agree, "ADVENTURE" games are not really experiencing any issues, rather, specifically point & clicks are. Because you can paint them up with all new things and make them great but they're a point & click which is an ancient form of telling a story :P You'd be better off getting a chisel and hammering your story onto a cave wall. Get on the casual adventure train and you'll likely fair better than the point n click train, regardless of commercial or freeware venture. People will reach the core of your game easier, your story will stand out more and not be bogged down in interface and puzzle frustration.

Quote
two games that are on the verge of not being adventures at all: Firewatch and The Witness. One has no real puzzles, the other has no real story ...and I didn’t mind! Both knew exactly what kind of games they were trying to be and delivered.

(from Adventure Gamers site)

Of course, some p&c's are successful. About 2 or 3 a year if we're lucky :P

Specifically the video: It doesn't look bad at all. But that doesn't mean it looks appealing either. Someone like myself, well, I'd need to play SQ 1 and 2 before I could get to 3. And that's never gonna happen. So I'm not gonna invest much into Space Quest 3. That particular franchise and "remaking" old point n clicks is fair enough, but the assumption that they're suddenly going to have a huge new audience, well, SQ was bollocks to me originally and it still is, 3D version or no :P Point being, that particular video/franchise is perhaps not the best example and has it's own reasons for being not very popular that may not apply to other adventure games. It's a reboot, just a 3D enhancement, etc etc. Outside of the point & click fan base the words "Space Quest" means nothing. They could totally reboot that into a way that's appealing to a mass new audience, big spectacle, but even they are sticking with the pretty clunky point & click mechanics and design of yesteryear. Well... the gameplay looks streamlined but goddamn those walls of text. Engagement killer right there...! Even the person playing in that vid can't be f***** to read them lol so if those walls of text contain story, some of the best story, then players like that are never gonna experience it. And it's not their fault that the story is delivered in a non-engaging way, that's the devs fault.
« Last Edit: 10 Jan 2018, 14:38 by MJL »

Ali

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Re: What is wrong with the adventure games genre?
« Reply #4 on: 10 Jan 2018, 15:57 »
I agree there's a problem with Point & Click. I find that I have less and less patience for P&C clunkiness these days. But since the video above isn't a P&C, I thought it was a fair point.

I was really annoyed to see Kotaku running a Point & Click is dead article about Syberia 3. S3 looks absolutely terrible, but isn't a P&C game as far as I know. The writer complained that it wasn't more like Sexy Brutale which you actually can play as a point and click. The article might as well have been called "Bad games: bad, good games: good".

« Last Edit: 10 Jan 2018, 16:00 by Ali »

m0ds

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Re: What is wrong with the adventure games genre?
« Reply #5 on: 10 Jan 2018, 16:08 »
True, the game in the video looks terrible regardless of what genre/type it is! Like you say, bad games: bad. Definitely another way to assure yourself a small audience. The Space Quest 3 remake way: Intro? Nah, let's just jump straight to the back end of a space bus. First thing player will do? Let's have them read a wall of text. Death sequence animation? Nah, let's just rotate the character 90 degrees in a split second, that works. Was it worth the 3D remake, when you think how amazing the originals were (if that applies to you)? I don't like SQ but even I can appreciate the original Sierra death sequences over....whatever THAT is. Couldn't stomach watching much more of the poor design beyond that myself := As I say that particular video portrays a pretty piss poor game. It needn't be that way for all point & clicks nor adventure games (and it most certainly isn't, thankfully). Our good games penetrate the casual audience and our not so good games have an audience of about 10 people. I don't think it's going to be much different for anyone else, tbh. Even if you have a facebook page, twitter account and whatever else specificially to market your game, don't think that by doing such things you made your game any less shit :P That doesn't mean it's wrong to make or play point & clicks. And in their own way, they do still do well here and there. But they don't have mass market appeal and they only did at the time because at that time it was the height of technology. So many new and more engaging ways of telling stories - providing escapism - have come about since then. I guess that's what makes point & click a niché inside the larger "adventure" genre (which even GTA V and zombie FPS games sit in on Steam and probably other places).

Right now, for AGSers or p&c makers, I think it's worth keeping an eye on how Silver Spook fares out of it. Because he is in the process of establishing a point and click set of games into the wider world. Dave, Grundislav, Joel Andail and Rem are past that point. It's less tough for them to sell a point and click (and by sell I mean the creative side as much as anything financial) to people even the more casual audience. Silver Spook is in the "proving himself" phase which is why I say it's just an interesting point in someone's development to keep an eye on. I think he's on the right track because he's not doing what I would call a "hit & run", to release a single game and never be seen of again, so he's already got audience engagement on the table by simply providing more than 1 game ever. He's going to have a more expansive audience, be it niché or casual or both, because of it.
« Last Edit: 10 Jan 2018, 16:30 by MJL »

Re: What is wrong with the adventure games genre?
« Reply #6 on: 10 Jan 2018, 16:29 »
One other note people didn't mention: it's not only adventure games that are hard to create fan base, the are many indie games out there that are struggling to be noticed. On steam there are tons of games without much users/review/players/unnoticed. Now days is much easier to makes games, you have a lot of easy engines out there and many games coming out every day. If your game don't have a real difference, it's just more of the same.
Now add on top of that the point and click genre which seems less popular than visual novels these days, even though they have some similarity.

KyriakosCH

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Re: What is wrong with the adventure games genre?
« Reply #7 on: 10 Jan 2018, 16:32 »
It depends on what kind of adventure game we are talking about. If you mean something like the 90s stuff, yes, chances are it won't have mass appeal (but one has to keep in mind that adventure games didn't have mass appeal in the 90s either; moreover, it helped the genre that for a time those games were the only thing the PCs had going for them, while losing to Amiga in every other game genre).

Another thing is that indie games tend to be a success when they are brief, and more lively. Eg that 5 nights at Freddie's. While some adventure indie games did eventually achieve some degree of fame, they are still not really viable as franchises, as proven by the huge amount of time it takes for their next chapter to be out (afaik the third chapter of Downfall isn't yet released, despite its success as well as the success of The Cat Lady).

Re: What is wrong with the adventure games genre?
« Reply #8 on: 10 Jan 2018, 16:35 »
I'd definitively say that the biggest problem with the video was that the protagonist walked so slowly, and it wasn't a particularly good walking animation either. If a game has large level areas to cover, the player character should either be able to run or have a fast default walking pace, because just sitting and waiting for them to reach their destination would bore most players. Plus, as MJL pointed out, the lack of any real intro made the game feel really cheap and poorly made.

I agree there's a problem with Point & Click. I find that I have less and less patience for P&C clunkiness these days. But since the video above isn't a P&C, I thought it was a fair point.

I was really annoyed to see Kotaku running a Point & Click is dead article about Syberia 3. S3 looks absolutely terrible, but isn't a P&C game as far as I know. The writer complained that it wasn't more like Sexy Brutale which you actually can play as a point and click. The article might as well have been called "Bad games: bad, good games: good".
I've played Syberia 3 for a bit, but it was after they installed a patch letting you control Kate Walker with the mouse. With that said, both control systems are slow and buggy, but by far the biggest problem with the game was the constant shifts in camera angle, which made it nigh impossible to get a good sense of where you were and which direction you were going. Syberia 3 gleefully took the 180-degree rule and fired it into orbit.

m0ds

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Re: What is wrong with the adventure games genre?
« Reply #9 on: 10 Jan 2018, 16:47 »
Quote
as proven by the huge amount of time it takes for their next chapter to be out (afaik the third chapter of Downfall isn't yet released, despite its success as well as the success of The Cat Lady).

Hmm, well 6 months for the dev to recover, then 1.5-2 years development on the new game, that's pretty standard for any indie. It looks to be the rough timescale for Dave, for Rem, for Joel and Francisco. But you can take franchises like Halo, certainly between its major releases we've got a similar time-frame. Same for GTA and no doubt countless other good series' of games. Certainly, no-one is doing it under a year and if they are they probably come out like Space Quest 3 3D or are relatively short/episodic games. Rome wasn't built in a day, etc. I'm currently aiming on a new game every 12-16 months. But I didn't say anything about "quality" game ;) So kind of thank god people do spend longer to make better things lol
« Last Edit: 10 Jan 2018, 16:54 by MJL »

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Re: What is wrong with the adventure games genre?
« Reply #10 on: 10 Jan 2018, 18:52 »
Quote
I'm feeling very low about the whole situation with the games, AGS, AGS engine and everything related.
Quality does make a difference. Yet, AGS games aren’t downloaded as much as they used to generally speaking. Any game from 2003 was downloaded thousands of times.

Quote
I find that I have less and less patience for P&C clunkiness these days.
Like everyone. More and more games are produced and can be downloaded instantly. People have higher standards in terms of ergonomics too. More often than not, coming back to a 9 verb interface feels uncomfortable since we've known adaptative icons. Even Thimbleweed Park doesn't play it straight.

« Last Edit: 11 Jan 2018, 02:04 by MJL »
 

Ali

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Re: What is wrong with the adventure games genre?
« Reply #11 on: 10 Jan 2018, 22:23 »
Thimbleweed Park is a bit of an anomaly. They haven't make enough money for Gilbert to deem it a success (though I think most of us would be happy with the sales figures!). But I really can't understand where it belongs in the story of adventure games dying (or not dying). Some people seem to think it's an innovative genre experiment, like Undertale, that subverts gaming conventions. Others seem to think it's just a classic comedy adventure game.

For me, it reminded me of the AGS games I played back in the early 2000s when there were relatively few actually playable games in the database. What it lacked in ergonomics and interaction it made up for in tiresome, repetitive self-referential humour. I really wanted to like it, but I found it as alienating as that Space Quest reboot.
« Last Edit: 10 Jan 2018, 22:26 by Ali »

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Re: What is wrong with the adventure games genre?
« Reply #12 on: 10 Jan 2018, 23:13 »
You said that browser game was not popular. A game can only be played if people know about it. What sort of marketing/promotion did you do for that demo? Did you even tweet about it? I did a google search for "cosmos quest v demo", and the only results that came up were from this forum.

Re: What is wrong with the adventure games genre?
« Reply #13 on: 11 Jan 2018, 04:01 »

Right now, for AGSers or p&c makers, I think it's worth keeping an eye on how Silver Spook fares out of it. Because he is in the process of establishing a point and click set of games into the wider world. Dave, Grundislav, Joel Andail and Rem are past that point. It's less tough for them to sell a point and click (and by sell I mean the creative side as much as anything financial) to people even the more casual audience. Silver Spook is in the "proving himself" phase which is why I say it's just an interesting point in someone's development to keep an eye on. I think he's on the right track because he's not doing what I would call a "hit & run", to release a single game and never be seen of again, so he's already got audience engagement on the table by simply providing more than 1 game ever. He's going to have a more expansive audience, be it niché or casual or both, because of it.

Mark is correct in that having your game anywhere on the internet in 2018, even if it *is* the most groundbreaking, mindblowing, revolutionary experience on the planet, is not enough to get anyone to play it, let alone buy it. And that includes Steam.

That is a major take-away for me, having released a pretty large (12-15 hours give or take) game in the Year Of The (Steam) Flood, 2017. I literally had 3 big adventure games, games bigger than mine -- not just some hack's shovelware -- come out on THE SAME DAY as Neofeud. Tacoma was one of them. I can't even remember the other two. Journey Down Chapter 3 came out the very next day as Neofeud. This is a pretty darn well-established series that started in AGS, with much bigger team, higher production-values than Neofeud, great social media marketing game, and they got... I think around 2,000 sales at launch, which Mark Yohalem (Primordia) pointed out, is not enough to sustain a team with several people.

As Dave Gilbert recently said in a podcast I did with him yesterday, "No one knows what to do exactly," to make it in the indie game industry. It is rapidly and constantly changing and evolving. However, from what I've discovered, those folks who have had any sort of success, have been those who have been actively promoting it, putting it out there, in a variety of ways. Just getting a social media account is necessary. Being active on forums, entering your game in competitions, talking to influencers, streamers, Youtubers, journalists. I spent eight hours a day emailing literally THOUSANDS of sites and journalists before the release of Neofeud. The biggest splash of press I had was when a Rooster Teeth Youtube channel called Funhaus with 1.3 million subscribers decided to do a play with Neofeud, that got 200,000 views in a few days. I could definitely see that surge in the sales/views graph. Getting in the Top 100 Indies Of 2017 (top 3 point-and-clicks) also helped, which is apparently how Funhaus discovered the video, along with the Gamejolt folks, who also featured Neofeud for a week. Ultimately, a lot of this is simply luck, a visibility wheel-of-fortune. There was no skill, talent, 4-year-Full-Sail-degree, marketing-masterplan, one-weird-trick, or anything else I could have had that got Neofeud those particular lottery-wins, but the more you put yourself and your game out there, the more lottery tickets you have.

I am an introvert by nature and despite whatever chutzpah charade I put on in the streams and podcasts, etc., I actually have a really hard time with it. I would much rather curl up in a poorly-lit dad-cave somewhere and binge Red Dwarf episodes. But I know that if I did that, no one but the inner-cloister of my game's "AGS Games In Production" *acolytes, all of 10 AGSers, will have ever played Neofeud.

(*You know who you are, and thank you for your camaraderie and being an involuntary suicide-hotline during the grueling twenty-hour background-painting guantlets. Your comments kept me alive. :) )

Ultimately you have to ask yourself: "What do I really want from this game dev thing?" What are your goals? Do you want 1,000 people to play your game? 10,000, 100,000 people? Do you want to make $10,000? $100,0000? Do you just want to get some great and in-depth feedback from serious gamers and/or critics that tell you that you did a good job? Do you want 1000 "likes"? Do you want a bunch of people clapping for you? Do you need to beat PUBG for most simultaneous players? Do you want to go to white-glove events and have Gabe Newell grovel at your feet at next years multi-trillion-dollar stadium-busting AAAA game event, with an endorsement from Oprah, and an Oscar for best original Game-To-Movie adaptation in one hand and a Nobel Prize in the other? Do you just want people to like you? Do you want to make games while maintaining great and loving relationships with your friends and family? Do you just want enough to pay the rent? To pay the food and rent? To pay for a townhouse in a San Fran exurb and kid's private school? Do you want to retire to Hawaii with a G5 and a supermodel and have a timeshare in every offshore tropical taxhaven? If you want that last one, stop making adventure games. Just make really horrible games and have Artificial Intelligence-generated addictiveness algorithms convert your shitware into digital heroin, turn lots of young children and people with addicitive personalities into junkies, then stuff your garbageware full of lootboxes and microtransactions making you rich and them homeless, take half the profits, dump it into a plagiarized cryptocurrency shitcoin, use the other half to bribe select scruple-free crypto-"gurus" to ponzi-hype it for you, store ill-gotten gains you fleeced from pension funds in a major city's propped-up real estate market making more people homeless, wash rinse repeat.   (Just kidding, don't retire here, please! I already had enough of the homeless to deal with around here in my last jobs.)

But seriously, what do you really, really want? Because if you just want a few cool folks to play your game and give you some feedback, you may be able to just make it and release it on AGS. It's a great, smart, friendly, and very active community here. But you may have to ask for a bit more critique, enter it into a competition, etc.

Personally, I just want to make games that I can be proud of, that have some artistic merit, that are relevant, and to make enough to support myself and my family at a reasonable standard. So far it is working out ok, although of course it could be better.

TL:DR point is that if you really want a number of people in excess of two digits to discover and play your game, making the game and putting it somewhere is, in the immortal words of GI Joe, "Half The Battle." The other half is getting it out there.


« Last Edit: 11 Jan 2018, 17:52 by SilverSpook »

KyriakosCH

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Re: What is wrong with the adventure games genre?
« Reply #14 on: 11 Jan 2018, 09:50 »
Marketing a game is tedious, and chaotic as well, by now. Not that i ever had to try (but i am not a team, nor that serious about game-making in the first place :) ). In the old days it was enough to have your game reported upon by the relatively few computer magazines out there. Now... those are dead, and replaced by various web-pages. And having a game reported by a web-page doesn't mean much, unless one is a hipster :=

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Re: What is wrong with the adventure games genre?
« Reply #15 on: 11 Jan 2018, 12:38 »
the third chapter of Downfall isn't yet released, despite its success as well as the success of The Cat Lady

It's coming along very nicely! 70% complete!!! ;) (I realize it brings nothing to the discussion though ;) )

But to actually bring something to this discussion, I'd say that I think it's time to move on and explore mixing genres. Lorelai is probably the last "adventure game" that I make. Not for financial reasons, cos I seem to have found my fanbase that enjoy it, but... tastes change over time. Games these days should offer that THRILL that's often missing in real life. Where's the thrill in pointing and clicking? Well, I suppose you can find it, if you really engage yourself in a p&c game, but that takes a lot of time and effort. And certainly a lot of people will be lost before that happens...

Even Dave, the hardcore p&c veteran is moving towards shifting genres, adding RPG elements to his new game, which I think is a great move.

The thing is, we all came here out of love for our Monkey Islands and Space Quests and so on, and we've tried to recreate them the way they've remained in our memories. But what's the point, really? It's like trying to wear a medieval armour and pretending the trends in fashion have not changed. Sure, you will feel the sense of pride and achievement, but after a while you'll realize you're not very comfortable at all... and that people are sorta avoiding you ;)


Danvzare

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Re: What is wrong with the adventure games genre?
« Reply #16 on: 11 Jan 2018, 12:43 »
Firstly, adventure games aren't dead. People have been saying that for years, and back then they had a good reason to. But as of right now, several great point and click adventure games get released every year, and each of which do successful enough to allow the company to make another one. So the genre is alive and well.

As for popularity, adventure games are a niche market. That's never going to change. The cinematic type of adventure game that Telltale Games is popular for, is increasingly becoming popular, but that's different enough to be considered a different genre to the point and click adventure games of old.
You'll never get mass appeal with adventure games. But that's ok, because there are plenty of genres out there that don't have mass appeal. Usually though, they have more appeal in certain countries, with adventure games seeming to be more popular in Europe.

As for why you've never gotten any type of popularity. Well first, your video looks pretty, but it's just an art project. You don't appear to be showing anything that might signify a full remake. Not only that, but you probably haven't spread the word very far. Popularity can largely be influenced by advertising, and while word of mouth can be a brilliant form of advertising, it's also quite unreliable.
And secondly, it's only really interesting to those who are fans of the original Space Quest 3, most of which would probably prefer the original Space Quest 3 out of nostalgia. And for those that don't, well they've already got a fan-made remake.
No one is going to be gushing over a small little fan project that will never see completion. Well, unless it's related to one of those insane fandoms that get excited over anything (MLP, Sonic, you know the type).

The thing about making a successful adventure game though, as far as I can tell, is that firstly you need a great story. Story is the most important element in an adventure game, much more important than any other type of game. Next, since it'll be an indie game, it'll need something unique, something special, a hook to bring in those let's players. After that, it'll be about marketing the game, pay for advertisements on websites, get news sites to run a story on your game, give out free keys to let's players and reviewers. And if your game is good, then there will be interest. But you'll never EVER get the amount of interest that something like Call of Duty does. Simply because the majority of people (the people that most games are marketed towards (ie, those who need the constant hand holding prevalent in games, play sports games, buys lootboxes and dlc, and always have a Pikachu in their Pokemon party)) don't like puzzles. And adventure games are in their rawest form, just a story with little puzzles to break up that story. Which is why those cinematic adventure games are somewhat popular, they're just the story (with no puzzles).

« Last Edit: 11 Jan 2018, 12:45 by Danvzare »

Re: What is wrong with the adventure games genre?
« Reply #17 on: 11 Jan 2018, 13:12 »
Here's my thoughts on the matter.

Let's look at this objectively:

  • The gaming industry is 100x larger than it was in the 80s/90s. This is considering the industry as a whole, including those casual gamers playing titles on mobile devices.
  • A very small percentage of that number are those who 'grew up' with point and click adventures.
  • A larger industry means more potential for sales, also more potential to get lost in the crowd of new releases.
  • We live in a society where attention spans are very low.
  • The core gameplay (or player interaction) of a point and click is driven by puzzles, something that requires a lot of patience and commitment from the player.
  • The majority of popular mobile and AAA games require little to zero effort from the player in regards to understanding narrative, let alone puzzles.
  • Media has become increasingly gratifying with the introduction of affordable CGI and improved *dramatic* narratives in television, a large majority are not prepared to invest in slow burning narrative (see above)
  • As time passes, less people are logging onto a PC when they get home. Average families favour sitting back on the sofa and playing mobile/console games, often with television running in the background.
  • Due to the lack of responsive gameplay, most point and click titles can be equally enjoyed by watching Let's Play videos.
  • We are in an age where most people are now used to googling problems they encounter in life, why would this be any different for puzzles in a video game?
  • A great deal of Point and Click games released are 'low-res' and the work involved in creating a higher resolution game requires a large team of very talented artists.
  • Low-res games are often overlooked by the larger majority of gamers and higher resolution point and click games are generally not financially viable for indie developers.
  • Most popular low-res games will have a unique gameplay mechanic not seen in AAA titles, often skill-driven gameplay.
  • The indie game market is over saturated but very healthy (and a viable option) in comparison to 10 years ago.
  • There is still a very strong and dedicated community of fans of this genre, let us not forget that.
  • People buy adventure games for the story, first and foremost - something that is very hard to convey in marketing media.
  • Quality visuals can go a long way when promoting a game on social media, try to tie this into the story.
  • People still buy adventure games.

This is coming from someone who is making a 'classic' LucasArts style point and click whilst trying to be mindful of recent trends in both indie and AAA gaming. I think we should be respectful of the merits of the genre and try to adapt this to a modern market.

Maybe a more constructive discussion would be 'What is right with the adventure games genre?'
« Last Edit: 11 Jan 2018, 14:06 by Chicky »

KyriakosCH

  • Alien spiral maker
    • I can help with backgrounds
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    • I can help with story design
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Re: What is wrong with the adventure games genre?
« Reply #18 on: 11 Jan 2018, 13:16 »
the third chapter of Downfall isn't yet released, despite its success as well as the success of The Cat Lady

It's coming along very nicely! 70% complete!!! ;) (I realize it brings nothing to the discussion though ;) )

But to actually bring something to this discussion, I'd say that I think it's time to move on and explore mixing genres. Lorelai is probably the last "adventure game" that I make. Not for financial reasons, cos I seem to have found my fanbase that enjoy it, but... tastes change over time. Games these days should offer that THRILL that's often missing in real life. Where's the thrill in pointing and clicking? Well, I suppose you can find it, if you really engage yourself in a p&c game, but that takes a lot of time and effort. And certainly a lot of people will be lost before that happens...

Even Dave, the hardcore p&c veteran is moving towards shifting genres, adding RPG elements to his new game, which I think is a great move.

The thing is, we all came here out of love for our Monkey Islands and Space Quests and so on, and we've tried to recreate them the way they've remained in our memories. But what's the point, really? It's like trying to wear a medieval armour and pretending the trends in fashion have not changed. Sure, you will feel the sense of pride and achievement, but after a while you'll realize you're not very comfortable at all... and that people are sorta avoiding you ;)

At any rate, i am happy to meet you :)
Both Downfall and The cat lady were very cool games 8-)

Though i personally preferred the story in the original Downfall, to the remake :=

Mandle

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Re: What is wrong with the adventure games genre?
« Reply #19 on: 11 Jan 2018, 15:12 »
Here's my thoughts on the matter.

Let's look at this objectively:

+1

Just scroll back up and read Chicky's list of points to see why I plus-oned...Spot on!