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Author Topic: What is wrong with the adventure games genre?  (Read 2162 times)

Danvzare

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Re: What is wrong with the adventure games genre?
« Reply #40 on: 16 Jan 2018, 12:27 »
What I see is WEG and Daedalic as the like big 2 at the moment and everyone else is sort of doing one-offs and the more persistent devs who are releasing more often than not are not really breaking through exposure wise, possibly due to full bottle theory, possibly due to other things (making games like Space Quest 3 remake).
And what you've just described is the Adventure gaming scene back in the 90s as well, where the big 2 ones were Sierra and LucasArts, and almost everyone else were simply doing one-offs, with exposure for all of those games not really breaking through (after all it seems to me as though the only games people ever mention nowadays are either Monkey Island or Day of the Tentacle).

But I agree with almost everything you said in your post. I just wanted to point that out.

Dave Gilbert

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Re: What is wrong with the adventure games genre?
« Reply #41 on: 16 Jan 2018, 15:23 »
Nothing really to add, except to say that WEG is nowhere NEAR Daedalic's level. Daedalic is a company that employs over 100 people, with full PR teams and marketing departments. WEG is basically just me and Ben and a handful of rotating freelancers. It's like comparing a kid with a camcorder to Spielberg.

Re: What is wrong with the adventure games genre?
« Reply #42 on: 16 Jan 2018, 20:02 »
It is kind of relative. While Wadjet Eye has done well *for an Adventure Game Studio based business*, we have to remember that they are using AGS, which is... I mean it's great and a cozy community and all, but in the multi-hundred-billion-dollar games industry, AGS is a drop of water in the vast ocean.

Even in the adventure game space, along with Daedalic you've got Dontnod (Life is Strange), Telltale, Double Fine, and many others that are all technically "little guys" relative to the big fish of the game industry (CD Projekt, Blizzard, etc.).

I do think that Mark has a point about having a huge influencer pick you up, whether that's a Youtuber, Streamer, someone at a big game news/journalism site, in the industry, etc. makes a huge difference.

KyriakosCH

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Re: What is wrong with the adventure games genre?
« Reply #43 on: 17 Jan 2018, 19:13 »
I think that a main issue is the freelancer-based nature of indie creators. It is analogous to what i deal with as a freelance lit translator. You get a contract, get paid, then have to find a new contract and so on. But you have no secure job unless you end up as signed part of the team of a large publishing house.

The positive is also analogous: as a freelance translator, up to now i can just translate Kafka, Poe and other writers i like. But if i end up in a large house, i'd have to translate whatever they want.
« Last Edit: 17 Jan 2018, 19:14 by KyriakosCH »

Re: What is wrong with the adventure games genre?
« Reply #44 on: 17 Jan 2018, 20:47 »
Exactly. As I mentioned in the podcast, (the one with Dave I think) I was technically making more money and 'being a professional game developer' at a larger company but mostly I was just 'updating the King of Clubs' to look better in some Texas Hold'em card game, or making a Fifa soccer ball kick animation 'more kickier'. Stuff I totally didn't give a crap about, really, with barely any creative input. I think Mark Yohalem (Primordia) has mentioned this as well, having worked on larger projects like Torment: Tides of Numenera, that your input can kind of get lost on these larger projects, or just disregarded and left out altogether.

But as an indie developer, I can make absolutely and exactly the game I always wanted to make (Neofeud), that I'm most passionate about, that I eat, sleep, and breathe, and don't feel bad about working time-and-a-half on (though I try not to for balance reasons) and can't think of anything else I'd rather work on.

But I do make less money, and it changes month to month. This is why I say you really need to ask yourself what precisely you want not just out of game development, but your life. You are not going to get a chance, at age 60, to turn around, with your millions of dollars you made slaving away trying to ladder climb at that corporate law firm or whatever, and redo your twenties thirties and fourties. You don't get to 'reset the console' and get another chance to see your children grow up, or expend the creative energy that you have (peak mental ability is according to studies somewhere in your thirties) on something that you care about, rather than just do one of the bullshit jobs that most people do, that consists of sitting in an office sending emails to people you don't really like, going to meetings you fall asleep in and write reports no one will read. (I should add, I don't think ALL office jobs are bullshit, and the marketing and business stuff is necessary and half of the story in running a sustainable indie dev company. A lesson I had to learn later than I would've liked. But if you don't know exactly what value your work is contributing to your life and others, then chances are it is meaningless. I speak from experience having done one of these.)

I've manage to crack this thing by basically going way-the-hell-off grid and living in a place where rentier capitalism, and thus pyramid scheme housing prices fear to tread. We have to collect our own water from the sky (no city grid, but then again 37 US cities have arsenic, lead and radon poison for drinking water). We have to dry clothes outside, next to the garden of jabuticaba (grape trees) lilikoi vines and coconuts. The road is gravel, full of potholes big enough to swallow a tractor tire, and is often swarming with chickens, goats and stray dogs. The house we live in was falling apart, surrounded by 150 foot trees leaning into it that I've had to climb in order to cut down (in pieces) and have basically had to take care of repairs ourselves. Property theft is high, (very few police) and it is kinda Wild West where you have to take responsibility for your own security. Speaking of security, 10,000 degree molten lava can come through and incinerate our entire area code at any time. Which is fine, because we have chosen not to have a house with a mortgage. (Another one of those life-choice thingies)

The closest bit of 'civilization' is a town where Woodstock Never Died with half nekkid people high on ahahuasca who trade sex and sacred gemstones for tarot readings and orange bellbottoms, which they wear unironically, right down the street. There are people literally building an Ark (yes, a thousand foot wooden boat) who believe their Brazilian ex-con leader is the second coming of Christ and that they will be spared the flood, living down the other street. When we go to the one Burger King in the area there's always a Vietnam vet who looks like Jerry Garcia with a missing leg listening to Hendrix and reciting Buddhist koans to calm another Iraq War vet who is raving about the 911 and the Illuminatis and incorporating the Ballistic Missile Alert into a conspiracy theory involving the Pope, L. Ron Hubbard, and the Mesopotamian Aliens.

It is kind of weird, but we are also kinda weird, and the area suits us. Although, I think sitting around in an office wasting your life for thirty years so you can have a giant stupid house you never spend time in and 1.5 kids you never see like much of my family have done is far weirder, and sadder to me, personally.

Ultimately I'm not saying you have to choose pyroclasm, bell bottoms and indiedev or TPS reports, lawn mowing and Starbucks, as the last three paragraphs were basically stream of consciousness and personal to my situation. There are all sorts of arrangements and middle-grounds and stuff one might arrive at. But I think the point is, unless you're just dabbling a little here and there, doing indie dev at any scale is likely going to require some lifestyle changes if you come from a stable-job, supporting yourself sort of situation.

I think that's the point, but I may have just accidentally inhaled some of the neighbor's peyote. It's hard to know one's consensus reality sometimes.
« Last Edit: 17 Jan 2018, 21:48 by SilverSpook »

MJL

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Re: What is wrong with the adventure games genre?
« Reply #45 on: 17 Jan 2018, 21:02 »
Quote
It's hard to know one's consensus reality sometimes.

Are you in a testing phase? Reality seems to slip away as scenes repeat themselves over and over... (laugh)

Re: What is wrong with the adventure games genre?
« Reply #46 on: 17 Jan 2018, 21:11 »
Realness is a lie; you've got to open up your third eye, man! I've sailed solar flares on the surface of the sun! Watched attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion! :D
« Last Edit: 17 Jan 2018, 21:18 by SilverSpook »

MJL

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Re: What is wrong with the adventure games genre?
« Reply #47 on: 17 Jan 2018, 21:26 »
I've mostly just played asset flips on Steam, so I suppose I'm a bit more jaded than you... haha (roll)

I just noticed that smiley should be attached to a thomas tank engine. ok sorry, enough OT from me lol
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« Last Edit: 17 Jan 2018, 21:28 by MJL »

Re: What is wrong with the adventure games genre?
« Reply #48 on: 17 Jan 2018, 21:38 »
Nothing wrong with being a jaded realist! Also I tend to go off on the business-end of the industry, but I think the aspects of promoting a game, trying to figure out ways to monetize it to keep the game makers with lights on and food on the table, handling the accounting and distribution details that can be a real nightmare for creative-types, all that stuff you do, Mark, is all vital stuff. All stuff I wish I learned earlier, like before the initial Neofeud release. I'd've had a million bucks by now and could've retired to Kingston upon Hull! :D 

Mandle

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Re: What is wrong with the adventure games genre?
« Reply #49 on: 17 Jan 2018, 21:55 »
Wow, SilverSpook, your life sounds like "The Mosquito Coast" of game devs. Amazing read!