Author Topic: What to do with a friend going down the drain?  (Read 1174 times)

selmiak

  • ǝsıɔɹǝxǝ ʞɔǝu puɐ uıɐɹq
    • I can help with play testing
    •  
    • I can help with proof reading
    •  
    • I can help with translating
    •  
    • I can help with web design
    •  
    • selmiak worked on a game that was nominated for an AGS Award!
What to do with a friend going down the drain?
« on: 13 Mar 2018, 09:07 »
I have a very good friend, we had lots of beers and fun together. We would hang out on the weekends and sometimes on weekdays, but over the last couple of months his alcohol habit became really drastic thing. He only eats broth anymore or little bites (and I'm a good chef), the rest is liquid with alcohol in it. when he gets drunker and drunker he knows everything better and rarely is injurous, rather he commands around for little things right in front of his nose. When I explain him, hey, this thing, gamecontroller, lighter, spoon, whatever, is right in front of him he gets louder and wants to get it handed, dunno if he is king in his head or just unable to move because drunk. normally I throw him out then. I know he did meth a lot some time ago and stopped, but lately this also became a more often and then he complains about his nose bleeds. lately he had his nosebleeds again and drnak too much and puked blood, I hope from his nose and not a damaged stomach or liver or WTF! And no, he doesn't go to a doctor when adviced. He went to rehab for alc once (that I know of), I even visited him there, damned, what a desolate place, I can imagine it only get worse there, he made it through there for a week, then the docs thought, hmmm, what are we doing, let's check his urine and found traces of meth and wanted him to go to closed up treatment where you get fed all kinds of funny little pills and there he ran away. And lately he announced he wants to drink himsef to death. I have a lot of empathy and feel sorry for him but this drains on my strenght and he just doesn't listen. What do the positive people of the ags forums think, What can I do? what should I do? and also HOW?

the funny weird and sad thing is, he is away to visit family for a week or so now, he probably drinks there a lot too and meets old drinking buddies. Then I forget how annoying he is in the meantime and after a week or some other random timeframe he reappears and is sober and nice and then I fall for it and talk with him until it gets worse and worse.
At least he started making music, so I though maybe we can make a game together to give him some purpose, but that music is no gamemusic sadly. What do when he reappears and is sober and nice?
« Last Edit: 13 Mar 2018, 09:32 by selmiak »

Khris

    • Lifetime Achievement Award Winner
    •  
    • I can help with play testing
    •  
    • I can help with scripting
    •  
    • I can help with translating
    •  
    • Khris worked on a game that was nominated for an AGS Award!
Re: What to do with a friend going down the drain?
« Reply #1 on: 13 Mar 2018, 09:36 »
Sounds like the drinking is a symptom. He should get professional help, I guess.

I also feel that I have to add that he doesn't sound like a friend, at least not anymore. A friend doesn't behave like that. He knows he'll behave like an asshole when he gets drunk. But when he's hanging out with you he doesn't care enough to try and stop before it gets to that point. If you want to do something about this right now, without waiting for him to get help, throw him out *before* he gets insufferable. Communicate, by words or actions, that you are willing to hang out with him, willing to help him, but not willing to act as his doormat.
« Last Edit: 13 Mar 2018, 10:44 by Khris »

Stupot

    • I can help with play testing
    •  
    • I can help with proof reading
    •  
    • I can help with story design
    •  
    • I can help with voice acting
    •  
Re: What to do with a friend going down the drain?
« Reply #2 on: 13 Mar 2018, 10:02 »
I had similar trouble with a friend. Haven’t got time to go into the whole story but he was a friend from school. His mum kicked him out at one point (when we were like 21/22 or something) so he stayed with my family. His mum and my mum had been friends too so he was a friend of the family. But he basically started stealing money from us to the point where my mum had to put a lock on her own bedroom door. She eventually kicked him out too for other reasons I won’t go into. I stayed his friend but he just kept getting worse. After my first stint in Japan I went to visit him. He seemed to be doing alright, but some time after my sister went to see him without telling us, he got her wasted and she crashed her car and lost her license. I haven’t seen him since then. I don’t hate him and I wish I could help but I had to put my own sanity and already limited finances first. So, I’ve distanced myself from him. I know he’s been in and out of institutes and been homeless for a bit but my family did our bit and he took advantage, nearly bringing me down with him.






Slasher

  • slasher
    • I can help with AGS tutoring
    •  
    • Lifetime Achievement Award Winner
    •  
    • I can help with scripting
    •  
    • I can help with story design
    •  
    • Slasher worked on a game that was nominated for an AGS Award!
Re: What to do with a friend going down the drain?
« Reply #3 on: 13 Mar 2018, 10:03 »
Been there with those type of people in the long distance past...

They use up your time and energy, wear you down and never seem to change their habits even when they promise to...

Tell him you will NOT see him until he's got his act together...

If he won't help himself then forget him.. There are plenty of other people in the world to be friends with..

Naturally I hope he can solve his issues... but it's odds on he won't, but you never know..



CaptainD

    • I can help with play testing
    •  
    • I can help with story design
    •  
    • I can help with voice acting
    •  
    • CaptainD worked on a game that was nominated for an AGS Award!
      CaptainD worked on a game that won an AGS Award!
Re: What to do with a friend going down the drain?
« Reply #4 on: 13 Mar 2018, 10:11 »
Some extremely sensible advice already given here, perhaps more even as I type this. 

You can only help a person who wants (or at least is willing) to help themselves, and admits there is a problem.  It sounds as though your friend does not actually view over-drinking as the problem, but life itself, with "drinking himself to death" being the ultimate "cure", whilst drinking numbs him in the meantime.

It's interesting that he does manage to sober up sometimes though.  Maybe that shows there is some hope left?  The thing is you need to have a really serious conversation with him whilst he's sober - he won't like it and nor will you - but there's no point talking to him when he's not  Perhaps he's unaware of what he's really like when he's under the influence - have you told him directly?  (It's really not an easy thing to do, especially when it's someone you care about.)

As already mentioned though need to make sure that you don't put yourself at undue risk in this situation - again easier said than done and obviously you want to be a good friend, but please don't let those good intentions get you dragged down as well.  It's a real shame that your friend has (I assume) a negative impression of previous efforts to get genuine help, but he really does need it.

Don't know how this is going to turn out buddy but please take care of yourself here too.

Cassiebsg

  • Cavefish
  • Fleeing the Cylon tyrrany...
    • Cassiebsg worked on a game that was nominated for an AGS Award!
Re: What to do with a friend going down the drain?
« Reply #5 on: 13 Mar 2018, 16:00 »
Sounds to me like he's an alcoholic and not willing to accept it. Only way he'll ever be better is dropping all alcohol forever!
Only thing you really can do is help him realize that and that he needs to stop drinking (and doesn't help to talk about that while he's drunk obviously).

Provide support but don't provide alcohol, and if he really wants to hang around you then zero alcohol (and drugs) should be the rule. If he's not willing to do that then he's not ready, I guess.
There are those who believe that life here began out there...

Mandle

  • NO PIXEL LEFT BEHIND!!!
    • Mandle worked on a game that was nominated for an AGS Award!
Re: What to do with a friend going down the drain?
« Reply #6 on: 13 Mar 2018, 16:35 »
Perhaps he's unaware of what he's really like when he's under the influence - have you told him directly?  (It's really not an easy thing to do, especially when it's someone you care about.)

A very good point, but just telling someone what they are like while out of it might not be enough.

Perhaps take a video of him at his worst and show it to him if you have the chance.

Don't know how this is going to turn out buddy but please take care of yourself here too.

And this first and foremost!
« Last Edit: 13 Mar 2018, 16:42 by Mandle »

selmiak

  • ǝsıɔɹǝxǝ ʞɔǝu puɐ uıɐɹq
    • I can help with play testing
    •  
    • I can help with proof reading
    •  
    • I can help with translating
    •  
    • I can help with web design
    •  
    • selmiak worked on a game that was nominated for an AGS Award!
Re: What to do with a friend going down the drain?
« Reply #7 on: 14 Mar 2018, 09:54 »
They use up your time and energy, wear you down and never seem to change their habits even when they promise to...

absolutely!

Don't know how this is going to turn out buddy but please take care of yourself here too.

Thanks for all this great advice guys, you are the best. this really helps! At the moment he is not here but visiting family. probably to eat or to get money, all because he is broke already for some shitty reason he gave 200€ to some shady guy, probably to buy drugs and this guy never came back and of course he was drunk atm. Or maybe he went to a casio, i don't know any more and I don't want to hear those stories anymore. me shouting at him and his stupidity and drunkness doesn't bring back the money, probably makes him want to drink even more to forget this idiocracy he did when he was drunk. What a vicious circle. I gave him some food the last days before he left and he drove me crazy with wicked speech as a thank. he sometimes leaves when he is either broke or knows he drove people too crazy and comes back, is sober for a day and smiling and a nice guy and it gets worse from there. I fear the day he comes back. He still has some valuable computer parts and some comics from me. screw the comics, but I want the computer parts back. So I actually have fool him to get into his appartement before shit's going down. he'll become possessive of my things and our fucked "friendship" probably.
the weirdest thing is, he is an interesting character and I have no idea how he gets through life and always stands back up again, so part of my artist writer soul wants to study him, but being around him is not healthy. damned. Since he is very broke and money arrives at the end of the month I can expect him then... :(

Mandle

  • NO PIXEL LEFT BEHIND!!!
    • Mandle worked on a game that was nominated for an AGS Award!
Re: What to do with a friend going down the drain?
« Reply #8 on: 16 Mar 2018, 14:54 »
Ever seen the movie "Withnail And I"?

Take a look maybe. Your situation reminds me a lot of it, especially the part where you say he is an interesting character for you but you feel he is dragging you down.

selmiak

  • ǝsıɔɹǝxǝ ʞɔǝu puɐ uıɐɹq
    • I can help with play testing
    •  
    • I can help with proof reading
    •  
    • I can help with translating
    •  
    • I can help with web design
    •  
    • selmiak worked on a game that was nominated for an AGS Award!
Re: What to do with a friend going down the drain?
« Reply #9 on: 26 Mar 2018, 09:11 »
Guess who's back! Way ahead of the expected time, but sober. I convinced him to go on a biking tour this sunday. Was fun and not even beer afterwards was involved. He knows he was ugly the last time, I hope it stays this way. Seems like a diary thread now. Dear Diary, everything okay it seems, I'll consult you once it gets worse... :P

CaptainD

    • I can help with play testing
    •  
    • I can help with story design
    •  
    • I can help with voice acting
    •  
    • CaptainD worked on a game that was nominated for an AGS Award!
      CaptainD worked on a game that won an AGS Award!
Re: What to do with a friend going down the drain?
« Reply #10 on: 26 Mar 2018, 09:52 »
Hope it stays positive mate.

selmiak

  • ǝsıɔɹǝxǝ ʞɔǝu puɐ uıɐɹq
    • I can help with play testing
    •  
    • I can help with proof reading
    •  
    • I can help with translating
    •  
    • I can help with web design
    •  
    • selmiak worked on a game that was nominated for an AGS Award!
Re: What to do with a friend going down the drain?
« Reply #11 on: 03 Apr 2018, 18:14 »
so it was all good for some days and now we wanted to visit a friend and are 1 hour late already because he had to listen to music loud and drink. once we finally left his flat and door closed he just said... oh noes. I said please no! he said, yes. well, his keys are inside and at this very moment he is very drunk and he and his greek neighbour are trying to break into his flat. funny if it wasn't so sad. Then I just went away, probably the best thing to do for my nerves. >_>

CaptainD

    • I can help with play testing
    •  
    • I can help with story design
    •  
    • I can help with voice acting
    •  
    • CaptainD worked on a game that was nominated for an AGS Award!
      CaptainD worked on a game that won an AGS Award!
Re: What to do with a friend going down the drain?
« Reply #12 on: 03 Apr 2018, 18:56 »
:undecided::sad:

Stupot

    • I can help with play testing
    •  
    • I can help with proof reading
    •  
    • I can help with story design
    •  
    • I can help with voice acting
    •  
Re: What to do with a friend going down the drain?
« Reply #13 on: 03 Apr 2018, 23:21 »
Do you have anyone else in your mutual circle who you could talk to about it? Like this friend you were an hour late for meeting? Is he or she someone you could ask for help in dealing with this guy?

Slasher

  • slasher
    • I can help with AGS tutoring
    •  
    • Lifetime Achievement Award Winner
    •  
    • I can help with scripting
    •  
    • I can help with story design
    •  
    • Slasher worked on a game that was nominated for an AGS Award!
Re: What to do with a friend going down the drain?
« Reply #14 on: 04 Apr 2018, 05:30 »
They are acting exactly the same as three guys I used to talk to.

They would all pop in to see me, mostly drunk and would always have a can of beer or cider in their hands and would be quite loud.

Trouble was it was difficult to get them to leave, which I asked them to on a number of occasions but it was ignored.

Eventually the council were told (by other residents) of them being in my flat and they were banned from entering the building.

To be honest I was quite relieved.

In their state they didn't really respect or comply with others. They acted selfish for their own needs and disregard everything else.

If you want to be a martyr keep trying... but don't complain when they do not comply....It is your choice...

Unless you can kill the root of his problems you are fighting a losing battle....

Of course I hope he does pull through...eventually...


Re: What to do with a friend going down the drain?
« Reply #15 on: 12 Apr 2018, 02:39 »
I would agree with the unanimous advice given already. Do what you can within reason but don't put his wellbeing before yours (martyrdom as Slasher says). Because the very sad truth is that some people won't change in spite of any help, big or small, they are offered (of course, that doesn't mean that you shouldn't try in the first instance). I am not trying to be facetious or heartless here but, if he has proclaimed he wants to drink himself to death, in spite of all the help (running away from rehab etc), why would you then spend effort to try and stop him doing what he thinks he wants? Addiction is a horrid disease/behaviour pattern which at the end of it all comes down to how much personal responsibility one can muster to change themselves. External help can only do so much, and from what you've written it appears he's had ample opportunity.

By the way, it's highly likely that these periods of sobriety are part of a sort of charm offensive, so that he doesn't lose fingers in pies that he might need in future ('he reappears and is sober and nice and then I fall for it and talk with him until it gets worse and worse'). I've had a comparable friendship to this where the reconciliation was always followed by a loss on my part. The last straw was when they trashed my room and broke all my furniture when they were steaming drunk. You honestly just have to cut some people out of your lives, like pruning rotten wood. In your own short life you simply can't afford to try and change another's when they lack the personal fortitude to do it themselves.

I have a lot of empathy and feel sorry for him

This is very interesting because empathy, and perhaps even pity, I suspect is the only thing that is motivating you to help. Now I have another alcoholic acquaintance who truly had a bum deal in life at every turn - in lots of ways it's 'no surprise', or even reasonable, that they hit the bottle. But empathy is never a sufficient reason to put up with someone giving you shit and dragging you down. Again, the fact that they lack personal responsibility will always trump any empathy that you might feel for them. (It's funny actually, because this guy once put a gaping hole in his front door when he locked himself out too, just like your friend!)

In short, and I'm sorry it's blunt, as soon as you feel like you've done enough that can be reasonably expected, and not a moment after, just ditch him. Invest your time in friends that you know for certain don't just care about themselves.

PS. Realised this thread is a bit older, would be nice for an update too selmiak :)
« Last Edit: 12 Apr 2018, 02:42 by Atelier »

selmiak

  • ǝsıɔɹǝxǝ ʞɔǝu puɐ uıɐɹq
    • I can help with play testing
    •  
    • I can help with proof reading
    •  
    • I can help with translating
    •  
    • I can help with web design
    •  
    • selmiak worked on a game that was nominated for an AGS Award!
Re: What to do with a friend going down the drain?
« Reply #16 on: 12 Apr 2018, 10:07 »
PS. Realised this thread is a bit older, would be nice for an update too selmiak :)

yeah, this could be his personal fail blog, some of his escapades are rather entertaining when you hear about it, but not when you witness it firsthand, but atm I asked him to not drink at my place and not come around drunk and it seems to work. he got a bit more silent and thoughful (or so...) and is nice to have around, he is a friend after all. I hope this lasts. If not there might be some funny fail updates and I lose some hair but I think I found the right interval between. Thanks for all your replies so far ;) ;-D

for those curious and interested in what can go wrong, the last time he disappeared for 3 weeks he left his hotplate on on 50% heat, could have burned down his flat (the one with the broken door) and has to pay quite some money he doesn't have for the energy now. *tears out hair*
« Last Edit: 12 Apr 2018, 10:14 by selmiak »

Grim

  • *Dreamer Of The Day*
    • Grim worked on a game that was nominated for an AGS Award!
Re: What to do with a friend going down the drain?
« Reply #17 on: 12 Apr 2018, 10:45 »
Just bear in mind that when an alcoholic will have to choose between the drink and the friendship... they will probably choose the drink.