Author Topic: MAGS Discussion - How to get more participation  (Read 1875 times)

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Apologies if this is in the wrong place as it’s not in itself a competition thread. I envisage it being stickied at the top of the board but if mods think it belongs in gen-gen, that’s fine.

Basically. MAGS needs more participants. I know everyone’s busy, myself included but I’m getting increasingly disheartened by the lack of entries.

However, instead of blaming people for having lives outside AGS I want to think of ways we can increase levels of participation, in the form of suggestions and advice.

Here are a few ideas. Feel free to discuss these and add some ideas of your own:

More teams - If you have an idea but think you’ll be busy, make a team. Team games are always welcome and the games borne from teams and parnerships are always really good. The thread itself is a great place to offer and ask for help. Also try IRC, Discord, Twitter. Some folks who don’t often check the thread might be willing to partner up if you approach them outside the forum.

More general themes - I used to say this in the PMs I sent to winners about choosing a topic. More simple themes/topics almost always produce more participation and more finished games. Clever concepts with extra rules always look great on paper and always garner a lot of early interest, but these are also the ones which ultimately produce fewer entries.

Go small. No. Smaller than that. No no. Like you’ve only got 30 days. The number of MAGS games which don’t see the light of day because they were too ambitious is quite shocking. I try to be lenient with extensions but I can’t always honor them and to be frank, if you’re still making the first draft of your game on the last day, you’re doing it wrong. Give yourself a pre-deadline, like a week before the main one. Spend the last few days making sure the game is bug free and pretty.

Let’s MMAGSGA (make MAGS great again)

Gurok

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Re: MAGS Discussion - How to get more participation
« Reply #1 on: 16 Apr 2018, 04:14 »
Hmmm... I'm thinking if we can't raise paricipation levels for every month, perhaps raising them for a single month would be a good start. Could we hype up December or January (months close to holidays) as "MAGS-a-palooza" or "MAGS-stock"? Get people to pre-register and publicise it months in advance.

It's a bit radical, but what if we only judged games once a year (Maggies)? A bit like the IF Comp, but still with monthly deadlines. It would give every game a chance to compete against a reasonably-sized pool of games. TBH, I'm not a big fan as this doesn't really grow MAGS but manages its decline.

You could enforce shortness via the theme. One Room, One Week could be applied to MAGS as a rule for a few months -- one room, one month.

Prizes are good, but nobody wants to fund MAGS prizes, obviously. Maybe we could award a gold star in someone's username area each time they win a MAGS. Of course, if some generous patron wants to donate prize money, that would work too.

Slasher

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Re: MAGS Discussion - How to get more participation
« Reply #2 on: 16 Apr 2018, 05:11 »
I totally agree that the lack of MAG entrants is concerning if we are to keep it going.

Some people are either too busy at the time, can't think of a game for the topic, think their games are not any good, try to get above their heads and realise they don't have the knowledge to do the game and so back down.

MAGS and the suchlike is all about having fun...  It's like: 'Let's see what I can make in a month'.....

We of course have our regulars which helps,

Naturally, people with good scripting skills who have the ability to produce quick results helps, whist people with not much experience struggle to get anything done..

Some people can't even make a game in a year that alone a month.... These people need help and reassurance...

Of course it would be good if old hands offered help to newbies and offered a hand with advice etc etc if they needed it or work as a team...

A game-making workshop would be great....a place to hone their skills and learn from experienced people...

I will naturally try to help get more participants.

I will mention this in Slashers Corner...

Let's save MAG (nod)

and Stu ;)


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Re: MAGS Discussion - How to get more participation
« Reply #3 on: 16 Apr 2018, 08:26 »
people are busy, themes are interesting to gamemakers or not. participation happens or not. Last june or july was great and had a lot of great games come out of mags, maybe this summer mags is back at its glorious height. I wanted to join but all the themes this year just didn't catch me, sorry theme makers.

Also update the december mags link in the IRC greeting message. Announcing the current mags theme in a forum banner sure gets some attention to it, still if the theme is not interesting or people are just busy you will get only that many entries.

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Re: MAGS Discussion - How to get more participation
« Reply #4 on: 16 Apr 2018, 09:27 »
I think that people (including myself) crash and burn with their MAGS projects simply because of greed. We want to make great games, we want to make the best we can, and when the 30 day deadline comes crashing down on you, it can get disheartening. Organizing a team to work on a game can be even more work than working solo on something smaller, so I don't really see teaming up as a solid solution here, either.
There isn't really anything concrete that can be done, apart from promoting MAGS more so people are aware of it, and making it clear that the games are not expected to be of top-notch quality or have ten hours of story and gameplay to them. If you can get people to grasp that a small, crude and not-entirely-finished project is a perfectly okay thing to release for MAGS, it might help people be more willing to experiment and put in the effort.

Personally I've looked at participating several times over the past couple years. A couple times I've been put off by the theme (I find themes that are too open to put me off, and personally prefer more restrictive rulesets), other times I have started something and then seen the project die due to simply not having the time and energy to put together a functioning game, which has been exasperated by a personal tendency towards feature creep in development.

I love MAGS, though, as it has helped me focus on some small projects that have taught me a ton about game development, scheduling and planning withing the scope of a project / deadline, so I'd love to see the competition go on and shine in the future. I just hope I can find a way to be a part of that, myself.

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Re: MAGS Discussion - How to get more participation
« Reply #5 on: 16 Apr 2018, 12:25 »
A passing thought that allowing RoN assets in any Monthly Mags competition might increase participation, as well as make more folks aware of the RoN assets. I've always thought/felt that, unless it was specifically a RoN anniversary game, using RoN assets violated the MAGS rules.

 

Danvzare

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Re: MAGS Discussion - How to get more participation
« Reply #6 on: 16 Apr 2018, 12:42 »
The reason why I've only participated in one MAGS so far, is because it's a month long commitment.
You need to mentally prepare yourself ahead of time, that you will be working on this game almost every day for a month. And then you either wait for a theme that you like, or just choose a month and try your best to work within whatever theme gets chosen for that month.

Not only that, but a lot of people can take a month coming up with the design of a game, but with a MAGS, you've got one day to design the majority of the game, with changes needing to be made as you make the game.

It's fun participating in MAGS, but it can be stressful.

Unfortunately, everything I just wrote is just about my experiences, and has nothing to do with improving MAGS participation. I honestly don't know how to improve participation, other than trying to enforce it as a teaching tool for newbies, and trying to get people from outside the AGS community to participate. Neither of which I think is possible.

More teams - If you have an idea but think you’ll be busy, make a team. Team games are always welcome and the games borne from teams and parnerships are always really good. The thread itself is a great place to offer and ask for help. Also try IRC, Discord, Twitter. Some folks who don’t often check the thread might be willing to partner up if you approach them outside the forum.
Maybe I should try participating in a MAGS again, but try and form a team. How easy is it to do that?

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Re: MAGS Discussion - How to get more participation
« Reply #7 on: 16 Apr 2018, 14:10 »
I know from my own experience when trying to make games for MAGs which didn't get finished, part of the issue was just trying to figure out an art style and getting graphics done.
What if there were some MAGS starter packs? They could include templates for rooms, sprites, and a simple GUI.

Slasher

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Re: MAGS Discussion - How to get more participation
« Reply #8 on: 16 Apr 2018, 14:11 »
Danvzare:

Time management is the key along with enthusiasum, weather it be MAGS or other.

With MAG, as you say time is shorter...

Myself: I generally 'See' a good idea or two where I know what I want to do within minutes...

Then write the basics down.... that's about 20 minutes...

So far all within a day...

Then make/gather most of the assets.... usually within a day or two.

Start piecing them together as per notes made..

This usually takes from 3 to 5 days...

Start scripting my ideas and adding the elements, which may change a little over time...

This may take me up to 12 days allowing for extras stuff to include.

Then another day or so doing the gui's and more scripting.

By the time i get to day 15 i am generally running tests and tweaking.

This could take up until the end of the month, depending.

I find a month more than enough time....if you only do one or two rooms i'd say within two weeks.

A month is generally long enough though I have found it a bit tight on some instances.

Not saying my games would win awards but they are complete and playable.

All the more reasons for people to get down and dirty and start creating.

Long live MAG (nod)

From VampireWombat:
Quote
What if there were some MAGS starter packs?
That is a possibility, it would certainly cut the time down..




« Last Edit: 16 Apr 2018, 14:14 by Slasher »

Re: MAGS Discussion - How to get more participation
« Reply #9 on: 16 Apr 2018, 14:21 »
Permanently extend the deadline by another month/2 weeks? More time for people who have little, emphasis that the game doesn't have to be longer/better because of the extra time.

I'm pretty sure RotN assets are allowed to be used every month, perhaps we could create some more all in one graphics packs with different art styles that people can use. EDIT: (VampireWombat got there before me!) :-D
« Last Edit: 16 Apr 2018, 14:23 by Retro Wolf »

Re: MAGS Discussion - How to get more participation
« Reply #10 on: 16 Apr 2018, 15:58 »
To be honest the one sided rules have kept me from competing in MAGS. According to the rules…

• You are not allowed to use any material created before the competition. Your game must be completely new! An exception is music and sound; you can use any audio that is freely available to the public.
• Any modules and templates featured in this board are also allowed.


So one can use any audio/music freely available on the web, plus any modules/templates here on the forum for coding, but is forced to create graphics from scratch. I can understand not being allowed to enter a game you’ve already been working on that happens to be close to the theme, but having to make all the character animations and backgrounds can be a bit daunting for a lot of people.

This also sounds like RotN assets normally aren’t allowed in MAGS. The only acceptation was the RotN anniversary contest that I entered last year. Were there other themes that caught my attention, which I would have liked to have joined in on? Definitely, if I had the option to use RotN assets or even those graphics available freely on sites like OpenGameArt.

As far as the time constraints, one month seems like plenty of time to draft a simple story plot, peppered with a few clever mini-games.

As far as promoting MAGS goes, mayhaps creating an AGS specific jam on GameJolt to get it out to the general public who may not have even heard of AGS yet?

cat

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Re: MAGS Discussion - How to get more participation
« Reply #11 on: 16 Apr 2018, 16:23 »
For me, it is a time issue. At the moment, it can be even difficult to find time to write forum posts or do moderation stuff (the awards also required lots of time). I hope one day I can enter MAGS again, but I doubt this will be soon.

I agree with others about the assets. Maybe it would be a good idea to allow existing graphics and animations just like music and sound. I would not restrict it to RON but allow any material that is publicly available. This means you cannot use stuff you made before and had lying on your disk, so everyone has the same conditions for making a game.

Re: MAGS Discussion - How to get more participation
« Reply #12 on: 16 Apr 2018, 17:55 »
This may seem like a petty suggestion but, as votes are no longer visible, I think it would be a nice courtesy from future voters to hold back on saying who they voted for, especially including a justification for why another game was a better choice. Giving and receiving critique is essential in MAGS but there is a bit of a propensity to compare and reinforce the obvious.

No shade to anyone from March's thread, I have definitely done this in the past, just wanted to share in case others have felt this way.

Regarding opening up graphic assets - saying one can't use things they've made in the past but something from an asset library is fine? If you're going to change the rule it shouldn't have exceptions. Personally I don't think this rule should change.

Re: MAGS Discussion - How to get more participation
« Reply #13 on: 16 Apr 2018, 17:59 »
I usually read the mags-threads but never join for the simple reason that I can't make a game on my own. So for me, teaming up could help.
But in my view the initiative for projects, mags and non-mags, lies with the artists. Requests from scripters or designers for artists never lead anywhere that I can see. Requests from artists for scripting or music are instantly succesful however; that's my impression at least.

Another reason for fear of joining is indeed the fact that so many mags-projects don't get finished. I have spent some time on games that never got released. That is not really encouraging...
Maybe a longer period (2 months?) could help increasing the chance a project gets finished?

Slasher

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Re: MAGS Discussion - How to get more participation
« Reply #14 on: 16 Apr 2018, 19:22 »
HandsFree

You could keep a game small (maybe 4 or less rooms) and concentrate on quality of puzzles and game play.

It would surely make hitting the deadline easier.

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Re: MAGS Discussion - How to get more participation
« Reply #15 on: 16 Apr 2018, 22:26 »
I love MAGS and wish I had more free time to join more often, however it's hard to make a game in a month. Stuff happens and sometimes you end up having less time than you thought or you just can't get passed writers block, or you end up taking more than you can chew.

I do think the forbids of the use existing previous material might keep a lot of ppl out it. It's very time consuming to create new assets every single month. One of reason I choose to go 3D (besides that fact that I love it and don't have the patience to do proper pixel art) is cause I can re-use the characters and items... just for MAGS. (wtf)
For instance this month topic would have been a great month to alow to use art from your previous game. After all we're not really judging how artistic the game was, but how much fun we had playing each entry.

I would suggest to allow "previously created art and any & all publicly available assets"... even if only as a test for a month or two. To see if that would help some ppl that are better coders and game designers out of their shell and incentive more games. Or at least the "any publicly available asset"... With a clause that one had to give credit and link to the page(s) where the assets come from...

But that's just be. I like creating my own art as it's fun and keeps me busy... even if it results in unfinished games. I don't think I would like MAGS to be come a 2 month long thing though. Just the thought of "having" to dedicate that much to a game would be daunting (I mean a game I'm not long term committed to do, that is). I like the deadlines, as it gives me a finish line, focus and dedication to use as much free time possible.
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Re: MAGS Discussion - How to get more participation
« Reply #16 on: 17 Apr 2018, 02:27 »
I'm definitley up for relaxing the rules on 'original content only' (although I do think it should be encouraged). Allowing RON assets is a good idea.

We can definitely have a look at some of the rules and perhaps do a poll on some policy changes. That said, I think a lot can be done in terms of raising awareness and motivation. I'd love to also get more people to just play the games and vote. That in turn should encourage people to make more games.

Thanks for all the ideas so far. I want to leave the discussion open a while. Lots of food for thought.


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Re: MAGS Discussion - How to get more participation
« Reply #17 on: 17 Apr 2018, 02:44 »
I think a lot can be done in terms of raising awareness and motivation. I'd love to also get more people to just play the games and vote. That in turn should encourage people to make more games.

Very true. It is sometimes a bit disheartening to put so much effort into a game and then see a final poll where only 10 or so people voted, and 2-3 of those are people who have entered games.

I currently don't visit or belong to any other game dev sites but perhaps people who do could spread the word a little outside the AGS community...

Also, perhaps the banner announcement at the top of the forums could be used briefly to remind people about MAGS voting at the beginning of each month, with a clickable link to the list of games?

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Re: MAGS Discussion - How to get more participation
« Reply #18 on: 17 Apr 2018, 05:29 »
I also think that any public domain asset should be allowed, though not sure how I feel about previously created assets (unless you make it public domain) -> and all assets should get the same treatment whether it's graphics, sound or code.

Now, for a little more radical idea, and I'm not even sure if I'm for it, but I thought it might be worth bringing it up for a discussion: what do people feel about allowing other game engines to participate?
It will bring more participants which equal more cool games, and might lure outsiders to join the community, and maybe try AGS one day.
On the downside, there's a sense of homey feeling here that's hard to describe, and it would be shame to see it disappear.

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Re: MAGS Discussion - How to get more participation
« Reply #19 on: 17 Apr 2018, 06:51 »
Yeah. I think it's time to allow usage of pre-existing graphics, especially since we have the RON library and Eric's photos ready for grab (I know a number of people already used his music tracks, but the images probably not as popular, which is a pity, if we let these lovingly captured photos get to waste. As long as you properly credit the author you may just alter the images in any way you want, such as tracing over them or using some filters.

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Re: MAGS Discussion - How to get more participation
« Reply #20 on: 17 Apr 2018, 09:39 »
This may seem like a petty suggestion but, as votes are no longer visible, I think it would be a nice courtesy from future voters to hold back on saying who they voted for, especially including a justification for why another game was a better choice. Giving and receiving critique is essential in MAGS but there is a bit of a propensity to compare and reinforce the obvious.
Oh really? When I participated in MAGS I was very eager to know what people thought about my (and other) games and why or why not they voted for it. Of course, it might be good to only state which game you have voted for when the results are revealed to avoid influencing other voters.

Danvzare

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Re: MAGS Discussion - How to get more participation
« Reply #21 on: 17 Apr 2018, 13:24 »
Here's an idea, what if we promote making MAGS games open source, so that future MAGS games can use assets from previous MAGS games?
Or is that a terrible idea? :-\

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Re: MAGS Discussion - How to get more participation
« Reply #22 on: 17 Apr 2018, 13:26 »
On the one hand, MAGS has some issues:
  • The allotted time can be a problem (only one month)
  • Timing can be a problem (being ready to start at the beginning of the month)
  • The challenge of creating all assets from scratch can be tough if you lack skill in either backgrounds or animation.
On the other hand, these issues have some benefits:
  • The need to do a game in a month requires the developer to narrow the focus.
  • The start times are very predicable.
  • Gathering assets outside of your skill set fosters teamwork.
  • Requiring original assets results in original games.
But still... a few ideas to pick from... I wouldn't imagine implementing all four of those changes.  Just continuing the discussion...

  • Add categories to the voting system, instead of finding one winner (best original art, best animation, best game, etc.)
  • Allow RON or other freely available assets, but categorize the game as such (best gameplay, best original art, and so forth), or let the "market" decide (if it's the best game ever made with Sam and Max since Sam and Max, then fine, otherwise mega-down-vote for making another Sam and Max game).
  • Announce the topic one month earlier allowing one month for design and one month for implementation.   
    OR...
  • Allow all of the winners between the months of X and Y - 1 to plan the 11 game topics from Y + 1 to X' for the next year.  Announce all of the topics in month Y, giving people the freedom to pick a month that they want to join and plan for it (take a week off, gather a team, sketch a few thumbnails, practice a new skill ... but no actual game code or assets). With this idea we should keep the "all original" restriction.

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Re: MAGS Discussion - How to get more participation
« Reply #23 on: 17 Apr 2018, 14:20 »
Here's an idea, what if we promote making MAGS games open source, so that future MAGS games can use assets from previous MAGS games?
Or is that a terrible idea? :-\

I think highlighting the option of doing this would be a good idea.


  • Add categories to the voting system, instead of finding one winner (best original art, best animation, best game, etc.)
  • Allow RON or other freely available assets, but categorize the game as such (best gameplay, best original art, and so forth), or let the "market" decide (if it's the best game ever made with Sam and Max since Sam and Max, then fine, otherwise mega-down-vote for making another Sam and Max game).
  • Announce the topic one month earlier allowing one month for design and one month for implementation.   
    OR...
  • Allow all of the winners between the months of X and Y - 1 to plan the 11 game topics from Y + 1 to X' for the next year.  Announce all of the topics in month Y, giving people the freedom to pick a month that they want to join and plan for it (take a week off, gather a team, sketch a few thumbnails, practice a new skill ... but no actual game code or assets). With this idea we should keep the "all original" restriction.

I definitely add my vote to the allowing RON assets to be used.  OR as an alternative to that, perhaps make every 3rd month a RON themed game (wich existing RON assets available to use in those months)?  Would be nice to see more RON games being made.  Would have to be rather loose on new games sticking to the existing canon though.

I think announcing more than one month in advance could be a good idea, allowing people to pick and choose which ones they want to enter and maybe even planning some holiday around it.  It could however lead to allegations of people using far more than the single month to actually make the game.  (Not that the prestige of winning a MAGS would really be enough to make people want to cheat surely?!?)


For myself I would actually like to propose a rather more radical option - and I know most aren't going to like it.  (Apologies in advance if someone has already suggested this, I haven't read every post.)  But hear me out.

What if MAGS morphed into not a game in a month, but a game in 2 (or even 3) months?  I know it goes against the original idea of MAGS but it would be so much easier for people to find enough time to make something (especially if, as previously suggested by several people, RON / public domain assets can be used - perhaps also InstaGame - is that still a thing?).  Anyway I expect most people not not like this idea, but I thought I'd put it out there anyway.

Mandle

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Re: MAGS Discussion - How to get more participation
« Reply #24 on: 18 Apr 2018, 00:15 »
What if MAGS morphed into not a game in a month, but a game in 2 (or even 3) months?  I know it goes against the original idea of MAGS but it would be so much easier for people to find enough time to make something

I suspect this may result in little or no change to the current volume of games being finished for a few main reasons:

* It could make procrastination a more attractive option. When I've been really passionate about getting a MAGS entry finished in time I have spent pretty much every available free moment on it. I have turned down outings with my wife (I have even asked her to go out for the day and financed it when I needed deep concentration) and bailed on nights out with mates. If I knew I had 2-3 months then I probably wouldn't do so and my total number of work-hours on the game wouldn't increase by much.

* It gives a longer time to grow disinterested in your own game. Even over the space of a month it seems many starters grow bored of their original game concept and drop out. We've all read comments like "I haven't found the urge to work on it for the last two weeks so I doubt I'll finish it."

* People would probably start off with a 2-3 times grander scope for their game and still run up against the problem of having bitten off more than they could chew.

* Overall interest in MAGS within the community may wane even more with a 2 to 3 month gap between each batch of new games coming out. It's a long time between payoffs for the community members who like to suddenly get a batch of new games all at once to play, consider, and vote on.

Just my two-cents of course.

Re: MAGS Discussion - How to get more participation
« Reply #25 on: 18 Apr 2018, 00:34 »
If you want to reach new people and raise awereness, you need marketing. Starting with getting MAGS on the front page of AGS and updating its own homepage (no updates in 2018). Create social media accounts or maybe make a deal with some youtube/twitch channels and gaming blogs for coverage. Also, tie-ins with other game jams. For example, AdventureJam 2018 is coming in May and all AGS participants should consider double dipping. All this takes lots of time and effort of course, which you probably don't have, unless someone wants to share hosting responsibilites.

I agree with the general notion that the biggest issue is time, but I'm a bit hesitant about increasing the monthly time restriction. Most game jams are shorter, some only few days or hours, and many still manage to attract a decent amount of participants and produce quality games (though it should be noted that very few jams take place 12 times a year and nonstop). But my point is that good games can be made in very short time (look at Slasher, for example) and even the most simple projects can eventually lead to something bigger or spark an interest in AGS. So, yes, I agree with go small. Also, good points from Mandle. I'd probably leave this as a last resort when other options fail to draw in more people.

However, I do like the idea of allowing more pre-made assets. This could mean simple, but functional templates for different point-and-click interfaces, text games, visual novels etc., so that people could easily quick start their projects. I know that everything in the Modules & Plugins sections is allowed, but I would appreciate a good organized list of those and some probably need fixing and updating. How up to date is this place? I'm also all in for allowing RON assets, Eric's resources and stuff from released MAGS games (optional for creators). I guess we could start from creating a library of assets and see where it goes. Or if people want all public domain and free stuff to be available, then I feel that there should still be some rules, like providing the links to the assets beforehand or maybe a time limit. For example, it has to have been free for at least a year before the competition starts, so that people wouldn't simply create resources and then release those or some of their old stuff right before a suitable jam.

This is a good initiative, I'm excited to see where it leads and hopefully it will breathe some new life into MAGS.

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Re: MAGS Discussion - How to get more participation
« Reply #26 on: 18 Apr 2018, 01:23 »
I pretty much agree with everything Mandle (and hobo) just said about why increasing the time limit won't make any difference to the number of participants, and could even have a detrimental effect.

Also, I personally don't like the idea of setting the topics too far in advance. I really think the solution is to just have much more general themes like 'house' or 'winter' rather than elaborate concepts.

Instead of changing the structure of the contest to give people more thinking time, I think it would help if we changed our own approach a month-long game-making contest. The month should include thinking time and tweaking time. The actual game-making time is sandwiched somewhere in between. So plan as if you only have 20 days to make the game, then any extra time can be spent making it pretty.

Allowing RON assets is definitely an option. I'd be wary about marrying RON and MAGS too closely together though. The RON universe is quite intimidating for newbies and even oldbies. Some might be put off making a game if it was expected to slot into the RON-verse.

(After hobo posted)
Quote from: hobo
Starting with getting MAGS on the front page of AGS and updating its own homepage (no updates in 2018).
The website has been broken a little while and I can't update stuff. I don't have the whatjamacallit to go fixing code myself. Only host access. But I'll see if Peder can have a fiddle around and get it working again.

(On a side note, Peder and I have talked about how the MAGS site needs updating. It would be nice to have a dedicated MAGS portal as part of this website rather than a seperate one. That way a lot of stuff could be automated using our regular forum accounts. I'm not really the man to go about that but it would be something to think about.)

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Re: MAGS Discussion - How to get more participation
« Reply #27 on: 18 Apr 2018, 03:34 »
From personal experience, waning MAGS participation is a life-stage thing.  People at the bottom of the totem pole at work or with really young kids just don't have the spare hours to participate in a time intensive competition like MAGS.  If it was socially acceptable to submit joke games that you could throw together in several hours I might be tempted, but I always thought that was frowned upon.

I like TheBitPriest's idea of voting in categories, as it shares the glory a bit.  We switched to category voting down in the Fortnightly Writing Competition years ago and I find it much more rewarding as a writer to get more detailed feedback than just a win-lose vote.  I don't know if it is incentive for more participation, though.  The number of participants entering since the change is roughly on par with before hand.  Anecdotally, there's definitely more participation in the FWC when the rules imply that a short entry is socially acceptable....

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Re: MAGS Discussion - How to get more participation
« Reply #28 on: 18 Apr 2018, 08:19 »
Baron,

Quote
People at the bottom of the totem pole at work just don't have the spare hours to participate in a time intensive competition like MAGS
So, the high flyers have time then?

Quote
Anecdotally, there's definitely more participation in the FWC when the rules imply that a short entry is socially acceptable....
Size is not everything but quality is, so I am told (laugh)

If we reset all the boundaries I think it would take away the edge of the whole purpose of Mag... after all, you could not very well ask the sporting committee to shorten the 100m hurdles race to 80m or take away the hurdles just to suit yourself....but you could train more, get better running shoes and learn the track better etc etc

It's a competition, simple as that.... and it's to show us what you can do...

What's more, any game does not need to be long and complicated:  as long as it's playable and fun (nod)

Anyone could win, anyone (nod)


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Re: MAGS Discussion - How to get more participation
« Reply #29 on: 18 Apr 2018, 08:39 »
Okay so the arguments against making it longer by Mandle are good ones, and Hobo's point about marketing is very valid.  Perhaps it only feels like "if I'd had more time I would have been able to do it" when this is not really the case.  "Marketing" in this sense is clearly something for mainly within the AGS community and therefore the forum, though social media also has its uses there.  I think the thing about other game jams is that they although shorter they tend to be extremely focused, have quite good (or better) social media exposure and are often annual events.  MAGS is a kind of hybrid game jam - in principle it's the same idea but by virtue of being every single month, it's hard to get the same level of enthusiasm and motivation to finish a new project for it every time (unless you're Slasher! :wink:)

It seems that a certain level of consensus has been reached about allowing some pre-made graphics.  I think that would be rather helpful, especially to artistically challenged people like myself! :grin:

I also like TheBitPriest's idea of category voting, which is in line with how voting works for both the writing and art competitions on the forum.

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Re: MAGS Discussion - How to get more participation
« Reply #30 on: 18 Apr 2018, 12:53 »
It seems that a certain level of consensus has been reached about allowing some pre-made graphics.  I think that would be rather helpful, especially to artistically challenged people like myself! :grin:

I'd also shuffle in red-faced and sideways at this point and mention that I myself (and Slasher) have been using graphics garnered from google for many a MAGS and nobody has said anything as far as I know...

I feel that adapting a pre-made graphic to a game is an art in itself. It saves on the drawing time for sure but it also offers its own challenges: You must find the exact thing you need, then you must adapt it to fit within the game so that it is playable, and also you will probably be doing some work on it in GIMP to put it through some further changes etc.

And plugging the ripped art into your game can be done well or badly or anywhere in between depending on your skill at doing so.

You could have a bunch of clashing graphics in completely different styles dragging the player out of the experience or you could polish them to the point where they all fit, which takes time and effort.

At the end of the day the voters will take into consideration if the ripped art worked for them within the total experience of the game.

Re: MAGS Discussion - How to get more participation
« Reply #31 on: 18 Apr 2018, 14:00 »
Some might be put off making a game if it was expected to slot into the RON-verse.
This probably shouldn't be a requirement or expectation, most RON assets are fairly simple and generic, which means they can be easily repurposed or modified to suit your needs and create new content. Also, I don't think RON is defined or limited by any visual style or the current collection of free assets. You can use whatever graphics you want to make a RON game, these standard sprites and backgrounds are simply there to make creating games easier and faster. So what if your main character looks like Mika Huy? That sprite alone doesn't really define what Mika is and there have already been multiple different looks and versions for her in various games. Or maybe we could launch alternative universes or timelines of RON that run parallel to the main one and allow complete freedom and all manner of changes.

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Re: MAGS Discussion - How to get more participation
« Reply #32 on: 18 Apr 2018, 16:53 »
First off, thank you for starting this thread!
+1 for not extending it to 2-3 months, for reasons already stated.
+1 to marketing better on the forums.
I can go either way with category voting.
+1 for using pre-made graphics.

Personally I would participate more if I didn't have to create MAGS art from scratch. It eats up all of my time, and I don't particularly enjoy it.
Having RON assets available would be great, but does that mean you have to make a RON game? I don't know the universe, and I wouldn't want newbies to feel like they couldn't participate either for that reason. :P

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Re: MAGS Discussion - How to get more participation
« Reply #33 on: 18 Apr 2018, 17:03 »
Quote
I pretty much agree with everything Mandle (and hobo) just said about why increasing the time limit won't make any difference to the number of participants, and could even have a detrimental effect.
Me too.
I'm not so adamant about the frequency of the competitions though. One MAGS competition every 2 months could be enough.

Quote
The challenge of creating all assets from scratch can be tough if you lack skill in either backgrounds or animation.
I also find it hard to make a consistent game with satisfying visuals on my own in one month. It promotes teamwork but can deter some people from entering.

Quote
Allow RON or other freely available assets
+1
Would it be possible to allow the use of assets produced during other contests too? Background Blitz, Sprite contest...
« Last Edit: 18 Apr 2018, 17:09 by Creamy »
 

Re: MAGS Discussion - How to get more participation
« Reply #34 on: 18 Apr 2018, 18:03 »
Hi folks,


I also noted some time ago that MAGS had suffered a bit of a slow down in terms of participants for each months contest. I remember posting a few suggestions in some or other MAGS thread about this last year. My suggestion was simply to have MAGS run every 2 months however at the time I think people frowned upon the idea somewhat for various reasons of which I can understand.

However much as a radical change it is, I would like to mention it again since I just spotted this thread now and thought to give my thoughts on it.

I think there are a number of benefits to running the MAGS every other month, on the surface of the suggestion you might automatically think well, its only 6 mags a year compared to 12 and how could that possibly result in more participants per year?



Well here is the theory, shaky as it may be


1. I honestly feel that you might find more people enter who have already entered into a previous contest because there is a chance that directly after a MAGS participants will be tired, perhaps stressed, lost a bit of enthusiasm, in particular since its a jam we are talking about after all so there is that all hands on deck, full steam ahead activity which in my opinion takes time to recharge when its all over with.
Getting people to enter into another MAGS directly after is a lot to ask especially if they have worked to the bone on any previous contest. Said person/teams might be more likely to enter after a good few weeks have passed.

2. Having the MAGS run every two months gives the opportunity to add an extra week (or perhaps more) onto the time period so development can run over 5 weeks rather then 4. this extra week can come out of the month that a MAGS isn't being run.


3. Running every two months also gives the opportunity to add an extra week (or more) to the period where people get to play the games then vote, which may lead to more people getting time to play more games and squeezing out as many votes as possible with a slightly longer voting time.


4. Running it every 2 months with extra time added on may also result in better quality of games with more time for individuals or teams to polish out last Min bugs. (an extra week or more makes all the difference with contests like theses)


5. MAGS every 2 months give more time to promote the next mags before the theme is actually announced. Any extra time to get the word around is a good thing and will catch more peoples attention.


6. MAGS every 2 months might give people that regularly enter into the MAGS more time in between each MAGS to enter into one of the other smaller contests the forum runs, so this suggestion might end up benefiting participant numbers with smaller contests too.


I think at worst running this every 2 months could result in the same number of over all yearly participants as current projections are (based on the slow down).... at best you might end up getting more bumper MAGS (such as the one last June (i think?) where many people entered... So basically getting on average 8 people or so to enter every 2 months might end up being better then having 12 individual months of MAGS where only 1 or 2 or 3 enter.
OK now the "8" is wild guess, and I will admit doing this every 2 months idea might indeed make things worse, but I think if promoted right it could work.

And the only other bad aspect to this that I can see (apart from the potential to make the bad situation worse) is you would have to call the contest something else.

So in short I think you may end up getting more activity and also more people playing the entries and more people voting.

Oh also come MAGGIES people I feel might be more likely to play 6 games rather then 12 to make a fairer determination on who to vote for which may mean you might get more people voting on the whole in MAGGIES.






Asides from the suggestion to run it every 2 months here are some other thoughts.


I am not so sure about the suggestion some are making about making it OK to use assets previously made, which for me sort of defeats one of the main challenges for a game JAM. I think Jams in general are ideal for people to think outside the box and improvise and innovate with limited time or ability. However my thoughts on this might be somewhat biased in the sense my main thing is Graphics so I do have to also recognize that other participants might not have the same experience with Graphics so struggle to produce a certain quality in a certain amount of time, but I think every or individual has advantages and disadvantage compared to other participants and the great thing about game JAMS is the resulting variety of styles, ideas, mechanics.. etc that all ultimately pivot around the challenge of working around limitations / strengths and weaknesses that each participant has, and I think letting people use pre-made assets is diminishing the challenge and perhaps fun of the whole experience. But sure someone's fun is another's hell and vise versa so I dunno, there is my thoughts on it anyhoo.


This might sound a bit spammy, but have you thought of setting up a script on the forum to PM or Email every user on the forum with periodic announcements of which anyone can opt out of receiving. This is one way MAGS could be brought to the attention of people who have otherwise got their eyes off the forum and might have actually liked to try entering if they had known about it.
I think a certain MAGS theme might instantly appeal to a potential participant if they just knew about it before hand. A few mentioned about having a forum banner change to reflect up-coming MAGS this is a good idea. Anything to promote within the community is a good think because thinking about promoting MAGS outside of the community is going to be tough for a variety of reasons.

Perhaps rather then automatically offer the next theme suggestion to the winner of each MAGS, have the winner, + 2nd and 3rd place participants suggest theme, and have the community vote on the next theme via a forum poll this will raise the chance that more people will enter into next MAGS because its a theme they actually think they can work with.

Offer trophies or some sort of mark of achievement to winners or and perhaps runner-ups, the same way other contests do. OK sure there is a limited space in the signature area, but still a little badge, or icon, something for participants to aspire to. Perhaps like little star icons in the area to the side of the forum post.. er not sure what that area is called, the area where people's name/avatar are, just under there. I dunno... anyhoo .. I know its such a minor profile cosmetic, but well you know what the net is like, people like to collect achievements and show them off, and rightly so, with the work put in on each project.

Might I suggest an actual Prize for the outright winner of MAGGIES, now this is a bit of a wild suggestion because who is going to fund a prize and then why are no prizes offered for other categories during the AGS Awards, but I just though to mention this anyway, even if its just a small price like oh I dunno a book token or perhaps even a AGS T-shirt.. something.. you know.. something other then the win to aspire to might end up tempting more folks to enter.

There are a bunch of other ideas that could be done to help Mags and some have already suggested some sound ideas here also, I just hope things start to pick up eventually and I wish it the very best of luck.

I myself am striving to try enter into a MAGS this year at some point so you can hopefully count me in for at least one MAGS.

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Re: MAGS Discussion - How to get more participation
« Reply #35 on: 18 Apr 2018, 19:18 »
From what I read in this thread, I suggest the following changes:
  • All previously existing assets are allowed...
  • ...if they were publicly available before the MAGS topic was announced
  • The voting is done in three categories
    • Best interpretation of the theme
    • Best original assets (graphics, music, animation,...)
    • Most enjoyable game

I personally don't like RON assets, because with all their story and canon I find it rather intimidating (even if it is not required that you follow it).

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Re: MAGS Discussion - How to get more participation
« Reply #36 on: 19 Apr 2018, 03:07 »
Many good ideas...

What if we did something like this: Intentionally vague, broad topics on even months and specific gameplay/story challenges on odd months.
 
Broad topics would restricted to newly created art assets, while gameplay/story challenges would allow preexisting backgrounds and animations.

For example, in December the theme may be "Any game about winter or holiday," while in January it would be "A game with multiple player characters that have different strengths who work together to solve a mystery."

If you tend to like stories or interesting gameplay challenges, you know that every other month, MAGS is your place to shine.  If you prefer more freedom in game design, but like to paint and animate, you know when to set aside some time for a MAGS.

So, it would still be *M*AGS (occurring monthly), people would be able to anticipate the scope of the project based on the month, and game makers with different strengths would know when to participate.

For some people, it would be an every-other-month event. Others may still like to participate in them all.

Plus, we could try it then reevaluate... It doesn't really change the contest very much.

What do you think?
« Last Edit: 19 Apr 2018, 03:09 by TheBitPriest »

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Re: MAGS Discussion - How to get more participation
« Reply #37 on: 19 Apr 2018, 04:48 »
@TheBitPriest - I like your thinking. Saying that, if we were going to have a mix of broad themes and specific challenges, why don’t we let the topic setter be the one to decide each week whether or not (or how strictly) to have a ‘original art only’ rule?




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Re: MAGS Discussion - How to get more participation
« Reply #38 on: 19 Apr 2018, 08:53 »
@TheBitPriest - I like your thinking. Saying that, if we were going to have a mix of broad themes and specific challenges, why don’t we let the topic setter be the one to decide each week month whether or not (or how strictly) to have a ‘original art only’ rule?

I know you're still new at this MAGS gig, Stu. It's all good. (laugh)

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Re: MAGS Discussion - How to get more participation
« Reply #39 on: 19 Apr 2018, 09:02 »
MAGS where you make one game a month but the topic changes each week?

Stupot

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Re: MAGS Discussion - How to get more participation
« Reply #40 on: 19 Apr 2018, 10:12 »
I was quarter of the way to being right :-/

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Re: MAGS Discussion - How to get more participation
« Reply #41 on: 19 Apr 2018, 12:37 »
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it sounds like everyone is an agreement with allowing the use of RON assets. So maybe we should include a link to them on every MAGS thread.
Also, Maniac Mansion Mania is basically a German version of RON, with a set of characters that most people on this forum know about, which in turn could maybe make it a more appealing option (I know that I'm usually turned off from using any RON assets because I don't know the characters or locations, regardless of how many people say that it's ok). So maybe include a link to the MMM resources as well.

What if we did something like this: Intentionally vague, broad topics on even months and specific gameplay/story challenges on odd months.
I like that idea. It will give you a bit of a heads up before hand, whether or not you should be preparing yourself for a month of game making.

Also, I think that MAGS should stay at once a month. If you increase it I'll think we'll end up getting the rebound effect, which is basically that the more we increase the amount of time available, the more lazy everyone will become (and the larger their scope will be). Think of it like studying for your exam one day before the exam, regardless of how much time you had to study, or leaving your lights on more because you now have an energy efficient light bulb.

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Re: MAGS Discussion - How to get more participation
« Reply #42 on: 19 Apr 2018, 13:40 »
With all the talk of RoN and the additional mention of Maniac Mansion Mania, I have an idea.
What if we started something similar specifically for MAGS? Each month those who participate could choose to have their assets added.
I'm thinking maybe 2 or 3 series could be started. Modern, scifi, and maybe fantasy or such.
Or divide each series into different graphics style.
Maybe one month could be specifically for starting each series.
« Last Edit: 19 Apr 2018, 13:55 by VampireWombat »

Re: MAGS Discussion - How to get more participation
« Reply #43 on: 19 Apr 2018, 15:44 »
Now, these are just my personal reasons and may not apply to others, but the two main reasons I don't participate in MAGS as much as I'd want to are:

1. Too often the topics feel a bit too specific, and if I manage to come up with something, it usually so late into the month that there's no time left to make anything resembling a worthwhile game. More broad and general topics that can be interpreted in different ways would make it easier to come up with a fun game concept.

2. The rule about not being allowed to use pre-existing graphical assets. For me, that's probably what takes me the longest to finish when I work on a game, and reusing GUI elements and inventory sprites of generic items would save me a lot of time. It also feels pretty limiting to not be able to re-use character sprites, since I have toyed with the idea of revisiting or expanding upon characters I made for previous MAGS entries, but I just don't have the energy to redo every single sprite for a character I've already worked on, not because I have any good ideas on how to improve the sprites, but just because of a rule in a competition.

I understand the reasoning behind this rule, but I don't think it's necessary. While it could give members who already made games and sprites an advantage over those who hasn't, there's always RON assets or they can ask other members for permission to use their sprites and backgrounds. Now, while there is a possibility that some might try to make entries made entirely out of re-used assets, I still think most will only use it for the things they don't have time to draw and animate before the deadline and still try to make as much original content as possible. The alternative doesn't necessarily mean that all contestants will make good original graphics, I've seen several entries where they ended up using ugly placeholders due to time constraints.

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Re: MAGS Discussion - How to get more participation
« Reply #44 on: 20 Apr 2018, 00:21 »
Also, my own two bits on this topic...

For those who do enter, if you're needing help in some aspects, don't be shy to team up with someone, or ask for some teammates.

The person might not be planning a MAGS entry himself/herself, but he/she might be willing to contribute in some ways (like maybe a few backgrounds, or even a music track or two.  Even if it might be a bit of proofreading or testing the game, don't be afraid to ask for help).

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Re: MAGS Discussion - How to get more participation
« Reply #45 on: 20 Apr 2018, 10:45 »
reusing GUI elements and inventory sprites of generic items would save me a lot of time.


somebody please use this:
https://github.com/caesarcub/AGS-SCI-Template

maybe we can add some generic inv items to the template, like rope, lighter, flashlight without batteries, gun, flamethrower...
« Last Edit: 20 Apr 2018, 11:06 by selmiak »

Danvzare

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Re: MAGS Discussion - How to get more participation
« Reply #46 on: 20 Apr 2018, 11:26 »
maybe we can add some generic inv items to the template, like rope, lighter, flashlight without batteries, gun, flamethrower...
tin opener, bucket, pole, hook, pole with hook. You know, the items that appear on almost every adventure game. I think I actually compiled a list of about fifty items which appear in multiple games... for some reason.

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Re: MAGS Discussion - How to get more participation
« Reply #47 on: 21 Apr 2018, 03:24 »
Quote
@TheBitPriest - I like your thinking. Saying that, if we were going to have a mix of broad themes and specific challenges, why don’t we let the topic setter be the one to decide each week whether or not (or how strictly) to have a ‘original art only’ rule?

I think that could work. However, the reason I suggested alternating between broad themes and specific challenges was:

1. Participants could anticipate the scope of the contest ("June is here in a week... I can expect a broad theme. I'm in!")
2. The contest wouldn't be weighted too heavily in one direction or the other.

« Last Edit: 21 Apr 2018, 03:25 by TheBitPriest »

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Re: MAGS Discussion - How to get more participation
« Reply #48 on: 21 Apr 2018, 08:07 »
Quote

1. Participants could anticipate the scope of the contest ("June is here in a week... I can expect a broad theme. I'm in!")
2. The contest wouldn't be weighted too heavily in one direction or the other.
Add spoiler tag for Hidden:
As it's my topic for May I will be going for a broader topic with scope to interpret as you so wish with no asset use restrictions.
I have several topics for May in which I am deciding which one to pick...




tsa

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Re: MAGS Discussion - How to get more participation
« Reply #49 on: 21 Apr 2018, 10:33 »
Maybe it's just me, but I think maybe the invisibility of the MAGS competitions on the web and on this site in particular is one of the reasons it's not attended well. I can't find a MAGS thread or MAGS pages on this site, and the 'official' MAGS website http://www.mags-competition.info/?page=current seems to not have been updated since January 2018. Why not make some easily visible links on the home page of the AGS website and udate the 'official' MAGS site?

Re: MAGS Discussion - How to get more participation
« Reply #50 on: 21 Apr 2018, 12:29 »
On the subject of theme choice... Not sure if it will help anyone or not but here's a brief summary of themes and turnout for the last 30 competitions:
Add spoiler tag for Hidden:
* Mar 18 | make three playable characters and differentiate the gameplay between them | 2 entries
* Feb 18 | pick genre, setting and location from predefined lists and include a pet with an extraordinary gift | 4 entries
* Jan 18 | hidden and misinterpreted true motives | 3 entries
* Dec 17 | invisibility | 1 entry
* Nov 17 | contest/competition | 4 entries
* Oct 17 | fears/phobia, + 1 room requirement | 5 entries
* Sept 17 | past and future mixed up | 3 entries
* Aug 17 | the Bible | 3 entries
* Jul 17 | same place frequented by character 3 times as key element of the plot | 3 entries
* Jun 17 | rescue | 8 entries
* May 17 | fate | 2 entries
* Apr 17 | misinterpretation/mistaken identity | 1 entry
* Mar 17 | difference in size | 2 entries
* Feb 17 | same location at multiple time periods | 2 entries
* Jan 17 | transformation/metamorphosis | 3 entries
* Dec 16 | pickpocketing | 2 entries
* Nov 16 | afterlife | 3 entries
* Oct 16 | remake an existing game into a different genre | 2 entries
* Sept 16 | pure evil | 5 entries
* Aug 16 | must include monkeys, poor quality vehicle, giant banana | 5 entries
* July 16 | extinction | 4 entries

* Jun 16 | non-cliche historical setting + real personnas (optional) | 3 entries
* May 16 | must include gas, "It's all right now" quote, someone named Jack + Jack jumps and toothless bearded hag (optional) | 4 entries
* Apr 16 | natural disaster | 2 entries
* Mar 16 | changing seasons | 1 entry
* Feb 16 | RoN | 2 entries
* Jan 16 | Black Death | 6 entries
* Dec 15 | depleted/running out | 3 entries
* Nov 15 | monsters + must include rhyming | 6 entries
* Sept 15 | Stephen King, must include 2 rooms and 2 characters exactly | 2 entries
What I feel the most popular themes have in common is that they are flexible and not too ambitious, in a good way. Basically, when I think say "monsters" or "contest" or "rescue", a bunch of simple short game scenarios immediately springs to mind and whilst none of these games would probably be very original or imaginative, they could be quickly and effortlessly planned out. Coming up with a working MAGS game plan shouldn't really take any of the precious little time we have to actually create the game.

Also, not all themes that scored 4+ entries are vaguely defined - some in fact use detailed requirements, see the monkey theme from Aug 16 or Jack theme from May 16 for example. Personally I'm not a big fan of these "include x, y, z and your game must be f" subjects because (admittedly more as a player than a creator - I rarely participate) I feel the competition is more captivating when the entries are themed rather than connected by randomly chosen elements. But it does seem to stir creativity if the combination turns out to be flexible enough.

As for the use of pre-existing open source graphical assets, it feels like something that could improve the turnout but I'm not convinced if using RON resources for this purpose is a very good idea unless the MAGS entry is an actual RON game. It is a free to use library, but a library dedicated to a specific series so using it for random MAGS games *kind of* defeats the purpose to me. But then again I'm hardly an expert on RON policy, someone better versed in the subject might want to comment should this option ever be seriously considered.

Re: MAGS Discussion - How to get more participation
« Reply #51 on: 21 Apr 2018, 17:29 »


As for the use of pre-existing open source graphical assets, it feels like something that could improve the turnout but I'm not convinced if using RON resources for this purpose is a very good idea unless the MAGS entry is an actual RON game. It is a free to use library, but a library dedicated to a specific series so using it for random MAGS games *kind of* defeats the purpose to me. But then again I'm hardly an expert on RON policy, someone better versed in the subject might want to comment should this option ever be seriously considered.

I'm not a RoN expert, either, but at some point in time, before the establishment of a RoN Canon, folks began offering up characters and backgrounds for public use. I can't help but feel those folks would be sad that the canon was preventing the assets from being used to tell any story, be it one for the RoNiverse, or one for the more general worlds of MAGS. If the MAGS entry doesn't lend itself to a Zombie Mayor, or Death and an Alien building sandcastles, they can be left out. It may be up to the denizen lurkers within the RoNiverse to decide whether it's a RoN game, or not. Just don't kill off any existing character, unless you made it.  (laugh) And even then, someone may just resurrect him, or her, or it.

Cassiebsg

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Re: MAGS Discussion - How to get more participation
« Reply #52 on: 21 Apr 2018, 17:39 »
Well, the way I see it, even if they are RON assets, they are free for use. So nothing to stop one from making a game with them and just adding a note "Not a RON game" or "This is a parallel universe to the RON universe" or something. That way you can do whatever you want with the characters and don't need any previous knowledge of them or the universe they live in.
There are those who believe that life here began out there...

Re: MAGS Discussion - How to get more participation
« Reply #53 on: 22 Apr 2018, 00:34 »
I agree that public domain assets should be allowed for use.

Slasher

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    • Slasher worked on a game that was nominated for an AGS Award!
Re: MAGS Discussion - How to get more participation
« Reply #54 on: 23 Apr 2018, 10:32 »
I had a thought.... There are some members that are great at drawing, animating etc that to a newbie might be a bit daunting and put them off entering when they look at their own work.

To stop this from happening what if members could only show images/videos/Completed game link in the last week of the contest before voting starts?

I myself am guilty of this...

What do you lot think?

Re: MAGS Discussion - How to get more participation
« Reply #55 on: 24 Apr 2018, 02:14 »
I'm not sure but I will say that I'm more likely to complete a mags if I don't have to do every graphic from scratch. That being said there are pros and cons.

Re: MAGS Discussion - How to get more participation
« Reply #56 on: 26 Apr 2018, 15:23 »
I've been working on a little project where AGSers combine all their unwanted and old artwork. Could be useful for MAGS if allowed.
Just look at Ocean Spirit Dennis, in his world they allow people to use freely available art in their game projects, look how happy he is. Click him, go on!