Author Topic: Frustration/ranting/market  (Read 797 times)

Frustration/ranting/market
« on: 24 May 2018, 06:05 »
Sorry for the ranting.
After studying IT networks and changing the area of study to 3d animation, I came out from the college/courses very late. After many struggle trying to find a career and falling I ended up becoming some kind of a neet. I'm now more than 30 and still not a independent person, and very ashamed of myself. I, like most of you, always enjoyed computer related stuff and games. I've been studying game development and all things related to it while I didn't had a job.
For the last year I began to get interest in programming, and found that I really liked it, I already had programming lessons in college so I knew the logic. So I started programming a tool and learn at the same time. C++, SDL and opengl. I saw a light at the end of the tunnel, a opportunity to profit and work, be independent. I thought that it was a great idea, so I've been working for the last year on a software I've developed myself. My goal was to release a post on social media, after the first version had been complete, and sell the product on some platform that is related to the software specific area (3d software).
No comments, a couple of views, didn't get any reaction at all till finally the post was forgotten. For a year feeding the illusion that everything would be fine, that I was on the right track after many years... is at least very frustrating.
For those who have software developed, or even games. How do you market your product?

For those interested here is the tool I made:

Mandle

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Re: Frustration/ranting/market
« Reply #1 on: 24 May 2018, 06:58 »
Cool video. Maybe showing a few fully textured objects interacting would make it a little more interesting to the average person?

Re: Frustration/ranting/market
« Reply #2 on: 24 May 2018, 08:30 »
Aye, it's not easy getting your product out there. I struggled to market the game in my signature. My initial thought to make a platform game was the universal appeal of said type of game. But who do I market it to, its one cute and charming but average platform game in a sea of platform games. It sold several units on steam upon release but has now flatlined.

I'm making an adventure game now, and I feel I could promote that better. There's adventure game specific websites and fans of the genre.

Crimson Wizard

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Re: Frustration/ranting/market
« Reply #3 on: 24 May 2018, 13:33 »
Before marketing, and before even producing the software comes the question of purpose and target user audience. What is your tool for? How much useful it would be, and to whom?

After watching the video and reading the short description on the linked page, personally I was left puzzled. Is the idea of this program to create a scene with realistically scattered objects lying around?
Firstly, it is not explained what you can do with that afterwards. Can you export it into some common scene format, like for 3Dmax or blender, or some 3D engine?
Secondly, if simulating dropping objects is all that it does, why standalone tool and not a plugin to one of the popular 3D editors?
These tools also have physics simulation in them, is there any advantage in using your standalone program for making scattered objects, in comparison to doing same in a 3D editor?

I am not really into 3D editing, but these are questions that come to mind. Your program looks like a fun educational project, but it's practical uses are not obvious.
« Last Edit: 24 May 2018, 13:40 by Crimson Wizard »

selmiak

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Re: Frustration/ranting/market
« Reply #4 on: 24 May 2018, 16:48 »
I am not really into 3D editing, but these are questions that come to mind. Your program looks like a fun educational project, but it's practical uses are not obvious.
thought the same :)


Secondly, if simulating dropping objects is all that it does, why standalone tool and not a plugin to one of the popular 3D editors?
blender has some markets for addons and plugins. though open source is cooler! Cell fracture rocks!

Re: Frustration/ranting/market
« Reply #5 on: 25 May 2018, 06:44 »
Cool video. Maybe showing a few fully textured objects interacting would make it a little more interesting to the average person?
Yes, indeed I need to make better graphics and presentation to get more attention. I didn't put textures because wasn't the focus of the software, but I'll render something better later to show how it can be used to other people.

Before marketing, and before even producing the software comes the question of purpose and target user audience. What is your tool for? How much useful it would be, and to whom?

After watching the video and reading the short description on the linked page, personally I was left puzzled. Is the idea of this program to create a scene with realistically scattered objects lying around?
Firstly, it is not explained what you can do with that afterwards. Can you export it into some common scene format, like for 3Dmax or blender, or some 3D engine?
Secondly, if simulating dropping objects is all that it does, why standalone tool and not a plugin to one of the popular 3D editors?
These tools also have physics simulation in them, is there any advantage in using your standalone program for making scattered objects, in comparison to doing same in a 3D editor?

I am not really into 3D editing, but these are questions that come to mind. Your program looks like a fun educational project, but it's practical uses are not obvious.
Thanks for the feedback Crimson and Selmiak. You are absolutely right. Now I see how flawed the description and presentation are. The ideia is a tool to help scatter objects instead of the user manually doing it. Like creating a pile of debris, leafs etc in a more natural way, which would be hard to make by hand. The reason to make standalone instead of a plugin is to be able to export to more softwares, and don't be stuck on only one software, I'll have to write plugins for connections through.
It is really good when other people point out the things we can't see for ourselves.

I'll develop more features and maybe try to get some testers. Make a better material for presentation.

Aye, it's not easy getting your product out there. I struggled to market the game in my signature. My initial thought to make a platform game was the universal appeal of said type of game. But who do I market it to, its one cute and charming but average platform game in a sea of platform games. It sold several units on steam upon release but has now flatlined.

I'm making an adventure game now, and I feel I could promote that better. There's adventure game specific websites and fans of the genre.
That game seems to be really fun. Did you try some game communities in reddit?

tzachs

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Re: Frustration/ranting/market
« Reply #6 on: 25 May 2018, 15:01 »
Adding to what has already been said (identify your target audience and have a clearer trailer), what you are really missing is unique selling points (USPs). What does your product offer that the competition doesn't?
For that, of course, you need to find the competition first. A quick google showed Mega Scatter for unity, but I'm sure there are more.
So you should look at the competition and decide: is there a feature that I offer and they don't? Is using my product will make the user more productive? or if your product is inferior, you can also offer a cheaper price which can be your USP.
Whatever your USP is (or are), it should be emphasized in the trailer.
And the trailer's call to action (the link in the end) is barely visible, it needs a little more screen time and a bit more nudging (like "to learn more: link"). And the link itself (to the facebook page) doesn't seem to work (I'm getting "the page isn't available") -> make sure the link is actually working.

So once you have a legit trailer, and a legit working link with more info/tutorials/etc, and you know who your target audience is, you need to go where the target audience is.
So if your audience is game developers, go to unity/unreal/godot/etc forums. And if your audience is 3d artists go to maya/3dmax/blender forums. And of course if you do offer plugins to those products that's a great advantage (and if you find a popular product which doesn't have a plugin -> this might be a good place to create a plugin for, as you'll be filling a hole).

Good luck (your product seem nice)!

Re: Frustration/ranting/market
« Reply #7 on: 25 May 2018, 20:34 »
Thanks tzachs! I'll definitely take some time to put everything together more nicely.
And focus on the 3d communities out there.

Re: Frustration/ranting/market
« Reply #8 on: 25 May 2018, 21:18 »
Reddit? You know, I really don't understand what reddit is lol. It seems to be some kind of comments arguing website??

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Re: Frustration/ranting/market
« Reply #9 on: 25 May 2018, 21:33 »
My goal was to release a post on social media, after the first version had been complete, and sell the product on some platform that is related to the software specific area (3d software).
No comments, a couple of views, didn't get any reaction at all till finally the post was forgotten.

This is so familiar, and I think this is the common outcome of most indy ventures on social media. Truth is, with all the people, companies and content on social media it has a very short memory and very high noise ratio. Your product has to stand out by a frankly unreasonable amount to be noticed.

Seeing the video immediately made me think of blender, and I think (though selmiak and I are biased as blender users) that this should probably be a blender plugin. If it renders cloth in real time with any kind of accuracy it will be very welcome, believe me. In the world of games, and since you're obviously familiar with physics, I think a hot plugin for something like UE4 and/or unity, would be inverse kinematics for ragdolls, more specifically something like the Euphoria engine.

C, SDL and OGL are great things to know.

Re: Frustration/ranting/market
« Reply #10 on: 27 May 2018, 06:56 »
Reddit? You know, I really don't understand what reddit is lol. It seems to be some kind of comments arguing website??
I don't use myself either, but the problem with facebook is that the user don't get see everything he follows on the timeline, a lot of posts is omitted based on the algorithm it uses. Reddit is made of various sub forums, I guess it's easier to find your target audience. I'm going to try it later.

Seeing the video immediately made me think of blender, and I think (though selmiak and I are biased as blender users) that this should probably be a blender plugin. If it renders cloth in real time with any kind of accuracy it will be very welcome, believe me. In the world of games, and since you're obviously familiar with physics, I think a hot plugin for something like UE4 and/or unity, would be inverse kinematics for ragdolls, more specifically something like the Euphoria engine.
C, SDL and OGL are great things to know.
Thanks, I'll make some kind of plugin for blender if possible. I don't know a lot about physics, I'm using nvidia tech to make that software, but in a easy to use interface. Game engines already implement it, but only for in game stuff. I don't know what blender uses, I thnks most plugins are Bullet physics, which is usually the cpu implementation only.