WEREWOLF GAME (GAME OVER & DISCUSSION)

Started by Mandle, Sat 14/07/2018 17:14:36

Previous topic - Next topic

VampireWombat

Well, that was kind of fun. At least at first. Then it just became frustrating. I felt like my options simply were too few. I tried to play a character, but at times just gave up.
The term bodyguard didn't quite fit with what my actual role was either. An actual bodyguard is someone who is paid to protect a specific person. So instead I tried to play as an ex-soldier who chose to protect people at night. But the lack of consistency made it hard. Like, what type of setting was this even supposed to be?
Maybe more structure would help? Maybe more defined roles? Making it more like a murder mystery or something. Or making it a little like the movie Silver Bullet (haven't read the Stephen King story). Like each person has a defined role to play. Shopkeepers, whatever.
Anyway, that's just my feelings.

Mandle

#181
I'll start with a few things that could have gone better:

Firstly, it's been a long time since I've run one of these and I fear I may have set the game balance slightly unfairly against the Good team especially for a first round with new players.

I probably should not have included The Fool role so that the town was more consolidated with one common goal. I couldn't resist though. I love that role so much!

With only 9 players I should have only had a 2-player Evil team. 3 werewolves didn't leave enough room for error on the part of the Good team.

That being said:

Stupot, the Seer, did a great job with his scan selections:

On the first night he found The Bodyguard and got in contact with VampireWombat to protect him from werewolves!

On the second night he scanned Cassie and discovered she was a werewolf.

Well played! (up until this point)

I thought at this point that the Good team now had a decent chance despite my off-balanced role selections.

I expected Stu would either come out immediately with this information about Cassie or, better still, have VampireWombat reveal the information.

Not doing so until much later was a fatal slip here. It's hard to convince people when you already have the fatal majority vote against you. It just makes you look more like a wolf. (laugh)

As for the wolves: If I had been on that team I would have immediately suggested that one of us, probably Cassie as she had been quite vocal already, claim to be the Seer and name a villager to frame them.

This is to counter the fact that the Seer is very likely to reveal their info on such a vital phase and has a good chance already of having discovered a wolf.

Not saying anyone here played badly. It's most people's first game of WW and it is a deep game with many possible strategies, not all of which are obvious to a new player.

Just pointing out a few things for potential future round consideration.

GG!!!

Mandle

Quote from: VampireWombat on Thu 26/07/2018 00:29:41
Well, that was kind of fun. At least at first. Then it just became frustrating. I felt like my options simply were too few. I tried to play a character, but at times just gave up.
The term bodyguard didn't quite fit with what my actual role was either. An actual bodyguard is someone who is paid to protect a specific person. So instead I tried to play as an ex-soldier who chose to protect people at night. But the lack of consistency made it hard. Like, what type of setting was this even supposed to be?
Maybe more structure would help? Maybe more defined roles? Making it more like a murder mystery or something. Or making it a little like the movie Silver Bullet (haven't read the Stephen King story). Like each person has a defined role to play. Shopkeepers, whatever.
Anyway, that's just my feelings.

Interesting take on the game.

While role-playing certainly makes the game more fun and adds colour it is not the main point of the gameplay.

The werewolf (or Mafia)-type game is mostly about figuring out your fellow-players motives by watching carefully what they say and, especially, what they DO in terms of voting patterns etc.

It's more of a psychological challenge (read: mind-f*ck) game than a role-playing game.

Figuring out your fellow-players also becomes a lot more interesting after you have played several rounds with the same group and seen how different people approach different roles and trying to figure out their "tells". Kind of like playing poker with the same friends for some time.

Of course, more experienced groups DO add themes to new rounds. My group had an "Untouchables" round, a "The Thing" round, etc. but I thought the basic structure was easiest for newer players to focus on.

Cheers for the feedback!

Sinitrena

Posting first, reading your posts after (three replies while I was typing):

First of all, thanks for playing guys and sorry to dayowlron and PrivateerPuddin' for eating you. Rest assured, you at least tasted great :P And sorry Stupot, it must have been incredibly frustrating to know you are right but nobody believed you and in the end even VampireWombat seemed to start to doubt you a bit. I would like to thank selmiak, your suggestion that Stu might be a wolf in day two really helped us along by confusing everyone (including the wolves. We knew you were not the seer who had checked Stu but you sure sounded like you were. What were you thinking?)

The game was fun, though also exhausting. The wolves were in constant communication. I recieved around 40 PMs and sent about 20. And it got nervewrecking when Mandle just wouldn't finish the game in the last day phase, because we knew we had won if nobody changed their vote.

I wonder, josiah and selmiak, what made you not believe stu? Especially you josiah?  Your last post about the numbers of votes not adding up was exactly what I feared one of you might figure out.

The wolves wondered a bit if it helped us that fortune choose the three female players as wolves. Anyone thought it unlikely that we three could be the scum and therefore decided to trust one of us just based of the unlikeliness of this?

So, in the end it was  a fun game - once. It really got exhauting in the end when we had to fear for one of our own. Well, I guess the town had to fear this even more and you had no way to see where a decision was going when it comes to the nightly snack or anyone to talk to without the need to be careful. I guess you guys had it worse, especially Stupot.

But I don't think I'll play another round right away. I need time to rest.

Mandle

#184
Hahaha yeah Sinitrena, I hear you. Being on the wolf team is probably the most nerve-wracking role to play because you actually know your team members and have to plan consistantly from the very start.

It's also terrifying that you might not remember your own lies consistantly and slip up somewhere and doom your team (like a wolf-player claimed VampireWombat had so you guys must have been watching for such slips in your own posts to notice that one I'm thinking).

I once had to play a WW team member 4 games in a row and it became ridiculous trying to change my play style so much each time so that noone could tell. That's just the luck of the draw though.

Being a normal villager is the least stressful role because then, even if you are killed or your team loses it's usually because of lack of information and you don't feel as bad.

As for mass PMs: It's often worth it for the WW team to set up a free private forum somewhere. I forget the site we used to use but there are plenty out there that don't even require a sign-up. This takes the PM pressure off a lot.

(The Good players can also do this once they have a trusted/scanned group together but must be very careful not to let in a wolf by mistake, especially in games that have roles with the ability to hide their own, or someone elses, role from the Seer. I once got invited into the Good player's forum when I was a wolf and had a grand old time! The game ended very quickly after that! YUM!)

Anyway, well played and hope to see you back at some point in the future.

Sinitrena

Quote from: Mandle on Thu 26/07/2018 00:31:24
As for the wolves: If I had been on that team I would have immediately suggested that one of us, probably Cassie as she had been quite vocal already, claim to be the Seer and name a villager to frame them.
We considered something like that. Not in the open but in private, contecting people after night 1 and pretending we were the seer and had scanned them the first night. We deemed it too risky and decided against it. And when nobody was intending o lynch a wolf in day 2, we were already very secure in our position. Lynching a town would gave given us the win, not lynching abyone still kept the advantage on our side. So, no need to pretend to be the seer.

Mandle

Quote from: Sinitrena on Thu 26/07/2018 00:58:13
Lynching a town would gave given us the win, not lynching abyone still kept the advantage on our side. So, no need to pretend to be the seer.

True, and nice plan! The big trouble would have been if Stu had come out with his info straight away. Of course you guys didn't know he had info on Cassie but the chances he had found a wolf were about 50/50 by then or maybe slightly better.

Anyway, I was saying more what I would have done than what you should have done by that point in my post but, reading the overall post does make it sound like I was saying you should have. My bad there.

Your choice not to is obviously best vindicated by the fact that you got away with everything and won!

Mandle

Quote from: Sinitrena on Thu 26/07/2018 00:42:50
I wonder, josiah and selmiak, what made you not believe stu? Especially you josiah?  Your last post about the numbers of votes not adding up was exactly what I feared one of you might figure out.

I think Josiah just likes killing Stu (laugh)

Sinitrena

Don't worry, I read it as could not should.:-D I just tried to explain some of the thoughts we had.

We actually thought it was less likely the seer found a wolf than 50/50 because we thought it likely the seer had scanned dayowlron in night one.

Stupot



But yeah, Mandle's right. We would have had a much better chance if I'd come forward as the seer before most people had already made their preliminary votes. But towards the end it didn't make any sense for a town member to not believe me, especially after Josiah's observation.

The best part about being so honest forvthe second half of that game, and about this post-match analysis is that we are all learning tricks which can either be employed or implied for maximum paranoia.

Sinitrena

By the way, even though I don't want to play again right away, I would be interested in the role of game master. If you want to play yourself and are willing to give up the responsibility.

Mandle

#191
Quote from: Sinitrena on Thu 26/07/2018 01:08:32
Don't worry, I read it as could not should.:-D I just tried to explain some of the thoughts we had.

We actually thought it was less likely the seer found a wolf than 50/50 because we thought it likely the seer had scanned dayowlron in night one.

Hehe, good thinking but I guess Stu also suspected dayowlron as the Fool.

On a side note: Wolves can also make a play where one of them pretends to be the Fool or even the Seer can have a try, as it might keep them safe from lynching AND from werewolves, but this requires a lot of guts to try in case the town actually lynches the Fool or the werewolves eat him or the act is too unbelievable and is busted.

Mandle

#192
Quote from: Sinitrena on Thu 26/07/2018 01:13:13
By the way, even though I don't want to play again right away, I would be interested in the role of game master. If you want to play yourself and are willing to give up the responsibility.

Oh, hell yeah! Let's do that then!!!

Feel free to use my templates for Day/Night phase etc. if you wish.

If you want any help deciding on role numbers after player numbers are known I would be happy to help or what I have said above will probably help too.

Basically, do what I didn't do, and actually do the math: You want to give the Good team at least 3 days before things get to the "lynch a wolf or lose" point if possible. So figure on 1 player getting lynched each day phase and 1 player getting eaten each night phase. But you shouldn't have a game with only 1 wolf. That can end way too fast. It's a hard balance to decide.

As host you must be very careful to stay 100% neutral with your posts and PMs and avoid the temptation to add commentary of your own while the game is in progress. My old group had several rounds spoiled by new hosts saying too much, slipping up, and giving away roles. Even the slightest slip gives a lot away to an experienced player ;)

You are welcome to start the new thread whenever ready and I will be sure to sign-up!!!

(Yeah, it's better to have a new thread for every round or it can get too confusing)

Can't wait!

Sinitrena

I'll wait at least a day or two for the post game discussion to die down - and to give everyone some time to rest.

Mandle

Quote from: Sinitrena on Thu 26/07/2018 01:33:52
I'll wait at least a day or two for the post game discussion to die down - and to give everyone some time to rest.

Sounds like a good idea!

Privateer Puddin'

#195
Quote from: Stupot on Thu 26/07/2018 01:12:18


But yeah, Mandle's right. We would have had a much better chance if I'd come forward as the seer before most people had already made their preliminary votes. But towards the end it didn't make any sense for a town member to not believe me, especially after Josiah's observation.

I think your claim post needed a bit more info - who else had you visited (and then just say he was a normal villager rather than bodyguard?) and what were your motivations. Given that no one else tried to claim Seer, I was surprised the vote still went the way it did.

Sorry for voting you and piling the pressure on from the grave :( This post just seemed too much filler for me:

Quote from: Stupot on Sun 22/07/2018 02:20:59
I can only ask you to trust that I am not a werewolf... or am I?
But seriously I'm not... or am I?
No honestly, I'm not... ooooor?
No!

selmiak


Stupot

@Privateer Puddin Yeah I regret all that deliberately ambiguous stuff early on. I think I was trying to compensate for not saying much in the first day (due to being busy IRL). But that post you quoted was from before I knew Cassie was hungry like the wolf. After that I just thought honesty would be the best policy.

Mandle

Quote from: Sinitrena on Thu 26/07/2018 00:42:50
And it got nervewrecking when Mandle just wouldn't finish the game in the last day phase, because we knew we had won if nobody changed their vote.

Yeah,sorry about that again.

I was watching TV and waiting to end the Day Phase but ended up laying down to watch and then falling asleep on the living room floor.

I woke up like 4 hours later all full of aches and pains and couldn't do anything else except drag my ass to bed.

When I woke up this morning I was dreading what to do if the town had changed its vote during the total 10 hours or so the Day went over the time limit.

This will of course happen again from time to time for whatever reason: The game host is not a superhuman robot.

So, either the game host should set an exact time that the Day Phase will end and any posts after that time are not counted, or they should rule that if a phase goes overtime then that's just too bad and the players will have to deal with it.

Probably the first method is the most fair.

Stupot

Yeah part of me wondered if maybe you were leaving it to see how it played out. I guess it would have been unfair if the votes had changed after the day should have ended... but I was still hoping they would.

SMF spam blocked by CleanTalk