Full Throttle 2: What are they doing?!

[Punch]

I was just reading through the FT2 webpage (http://lucasarts.com/products/hellonwheels/default.htm) and I'm getting kind of worried. There's a whole lot of action mentioned and only the occasional bit of adventure.

Are they turning it into and Indiana Jones-esque game? Frequent action and push-pull puzzles?  :'(

- Punch

[Trapezoid]

It might be so. But even if it does turn out to be an action-adventure, I still think it could be a pretty cool game in its own right. The concept art and character models look quite promising (the screenshots look very incomplete, though.)

[remixor]

I couldn't be more cynical regarding the direction this game is taken.  If it turns out to be a good game, I absolutely will put aside all prejudices, but until that happens I'm of the opinion that it will be really bad.  The graphic style looks like crap to me, there's far too much action (40 "strategically placed" weapons...?  health bars?  tons of fighting), and there's no Tim Schafer.  Now, obviously Tim Schafer isn't the only one who could possibly make a worthy sequel, but with most of the great LEC adventure designers gone now, we get crap like MI4... Doesn't bode well for FT2 in my opinion.

[Punch]

I'm sure it's still going to be good, it's just that... well... I was hoping for a similar game... Full Throttle was awesome, and turning it into an action game is just... wrong. I'm not saying they can't change it, what the hell would be the point of a sequal if there aren't any new ideas, but still...

Ah well. I'm sure I'll still buy it. And they can't have butchered it too badly.

- Punch

[Nacho]

Let me show my oppinion...

LucasArts was for many of us the horny cybergirl who made us lose the adventure-graphic virginity  

I remember Indy 3 and, Man! Monkey Island... After that the quality of the games rised, but not the charming. The sensations we had the first time we went down the giant head monkey won´t be repeated  :'(

And after that, I dunno know why, maybe since Full Throttle... Quality down. Only Manny keeps the quality, why? Mr. Ron Gilbert is right, they only thing they care is how many poligons can the 3-d machine move, Monkey island 4 sucked...

Lucas has lost the fresh they had at their first games... now that creativity can be found here, in AGS, we´re young, we´re funny... We gotta keep teh good work!

[Gonzo]

The new FT site has really given me doubts about the game now. Before I was confident it would be a great adventure game with action thrown in here and there (like the original) but the emphasis of everything on the site seems to tell us otherwise.

Besides that, the new screenshots look awful, especially the first one - looks like a bad Quake I modification with Full Throttle skins. And it makes me worry about the interface, the second screenshot with the fighting doesn't look like fun. Compared to the early screenshots which looked good, this is alarming, what have they changed?

But we shouldn't speculate, it's best to wait to play the game before we pass judgement. I'm just a little more worried now.

[jetxl]

First they make crappy starwars games then they mess up Guybrush and now it looks like they make the coolest game ever into a shooter.
The only time LA makes a good game is when another company does the work for them.

Quesion has there ever been a good 3d game?
I can only think of Normality and alone in the dark (It was scary!)

[Adamski]

I agree with Trap on this one.

It's going to make a lot of people very unhappy with Lucasarts though.

[Eero]

Hmm, I really hope that they make Sam&Max 2 better than Full Throttle 2... :

[Shattered Sponge]

  Well, in my humble opinion, they managed to get a damn good game out of Indy and The Infernal Machine (yet to play the new one), but then the movies themselves always had a lot of action at their heart, so it would be difficult to see it working with something like FT... I guess we'll just have to see.

[jannar85]

Someone better e-mail LucasArts...or I won't buy FT2.

[MrColossal]

i think the best answer to the what are they doing question is...

whatever they want, it's their company, it's their game and they can do whatever they want to do

no company sets out to make a shitty game so they are trying their damndest to make FT2 the best game they can in today's market place. now we've all been around for a few years and we know what today's markey place is like, so why is everyone so surprised?

you can't expect a company to never change especially in light of new technology, game playing ideas, trends and all that

also remember that we will be around on this earth for many years and who knows what new games will come out later. maybe adventures will come back in 10 years or whatever... maybe there will be new and better character's and games that we'll become attached too and make fan games off of

this is just full throttle, i bet tim schaffer or whoever isn't all that upset about the game [just maybe that he can't work on it and make a paycheck] he designed it many years ago and many years and projects have come and go, he's working on psychonauts anyway, his own game that he gets to design all over again

if you create something for a company you know that it is for that company and that they own it and they can do what they please with it. he's moved on i'm sure, along with many other people who made adventure games in the past

[Trapezoid]

Come to think of it, FT2 isn't looking any more action-oriented than Psychonauts...

[Jimi]

I haven't played the original.

[Barcik]

I am sure each one of us is thrilled to know that. Really, thank you for contributing that to our humble debate.

[remixor]

Come to think of it, FT2 isn't looking any more action-oriented than Psychonauts...

Come to think of it, it's also not looking any more action-oriented than Doom III.  The difference is that Doom III is a follow up to classic action games, and Full Throttle 2 is a follow up to a classic adventure game, and Psychonauts is an entirely independent entity that could be a barbie dress-up game and still wouldn't be breaking an continuity of anything in the past.  Now, I expect Psychonauts to be aweosome, because it looks like it will completely live up to its expectations--that is, a really awesome action/adventure game developed by Tim Schafer.  I am reasonably certain that Full Throttle: Hell on Wheels will not live up to the legacy of the first game, which was a great adventure with minor action elements.

[Trapezoid]

Is a sequel not allowed to have its own legacy? No one complained when DOTT went in a completely different direction from Maniac Mansion...

[remixor]

Is a sequel not allowed to have its own legacy? No one complained when DOTT went in a completely different direction from Maniac Mansion...

Come on, at least DOTT stayed in the same GENRE.  It also had a form of the multiple player character feature that was such a part of MM.  DOTT is a great example of a sequel, because it introduces new plot, new characters and new technology, but keeps the same genre of the game, retains familiar aspects, and will appeal to the same people who loved MM.  On the other hand, FT2 is not even the same type of game as FT.  It will use similar characters and I assume plot elements in a totally different medium, which is a very odd thing to do, and has already alienated many fans of FT before it's even out.

[MrColossal]

remixor, can you understand that times have changed?

cause if you can't see that isn't 1997 anymore than we can't talk about this

[remixor]

remixor, can you understand that times have changed?

cause if you can't see that isn't 1997 anymore than we can't talk about this

I'm not quite sure what you're getting at here.  If you think that I'm implying that FT2 should be 2D with sprites or something, you've read too much into what I've said.  I think FT2 should take full advantage of today's technology (although judging from those screenshots, it doesn't look like it has), but I'm of the opinion--an opinion which for some reason may be stranger than I think it is--that a sequel to an adventure game should be an adventure game.  Full Throttle was an adventure game with action elements.  FT2 will be an action game with adventure elements.  In writing those two things sound much more similar than they actually are.  Ever played an action/adventure?  It really plays nothing like an adventure game, and I expect that out of FT as well.  I'm not even anti-action/adventure or anything, I just don't like that they're creating a sequel to a great game whose genre is different from the first game's.  I mean, what if they released a sequel to Citizen Kane that was an action movie.  It could be a really great action movie, but it wouldn't feel like a sequel to Citizen Kane at all since the medium would be so different.  (This was a purely hypothetical example, btw, I'm not trying to actually say anything about Citizen Kane.)  That's how I feel about Hell on Wheels: that I'll play it and maybe it will be a good game--but with LA's track record of late, I'm somewhat doubtful--but I can't imagine it will "feel" like Full Throttle, and to me that's a problem.  If it's not a problem for you, fine, I think it would be great if LA made it a good game that people enjoy, but don't tell me I'm living in the past.

[auhsor]

Quesion has there ever been a good 3d game?

Well theres been Grim Fandango, which is a great example of a 3D adventure game, which is good.

I havn't played the original FT (although i am trying to download it, but a 56k modem aint good for that) but yeah, we don't know if FT2 will be good or not until we actually play it. Action/Adventure seems a bit dodgy to me, but i guess LA are just trying to make money with a character that is familiar, and so people who played the original will buy the game as well as kids who just see it as another action game. It was the path that Sierra almost went with Space Quest 7, but they've cancelled that new project.

Anyways, i dont know what to think yet. It seems that LA has done what Sierra has done - give up on its past, and try and make money in new genres. But i guess its not all about the money, but it seems that they are targetting FT2 to an audience that will bring in more money for them. But i do think that they would try and make a good game. Well thats enough from me...

[Las Naranjas]

Many people will say that GF isn't really a 3d game. Sure it has polygoned characters, but it's still a 2d environment except you use the keyboar and can walk behind static objects.

And you could do that in KQ, which was also billed as a 3d game.

However, in terms of good 3d adventures.


Under a Killing Moon, Pandora Directive and presumbly Overseer. It's certainly 3d graphically (despite the Duke Nukem 2 1/2 d spiriting) and in terms of game play, since it was necessary to properly look for things, rather than scrolling a mouse across a 2d background for hotspots.

the same can be said for GK, with was fully polygoned, and utilised 3d to a large extent in game play.

[MillsJROSS]

I'm not getting such a negative vibe from this game. I think it'll be good. It still is an adventure game. The first one had some action, and it was still great. And for the most part, I think Lucasarts is trying to sell it to other people, because they know we'll buy it no matter. If it isn't good, oh well, we have plenty of games here, to keep us entertained for a while.

-MillsJROSS

[Femme Stab Mode >:D]

new sequels of old favorites generaly suck. I hope they never make a Sam and Max 2, that would be an offence deserving death penalty.

[Timosity]

I'd never played Full Throttle until yesterday when I d/l it cause i could never find it in shops.(it's the full talkie version)

To be honest, I thought it was below average for what I was expecting, people build it up to be one of the greats but it let me down in that respect.

It was OK, the story was pretty thin, there weren't many places to go and it took me about as long to finish as it did to download. (4-5 hours)

Allthough I used scummvm just so I could hear the sound and voices, I couldn't get the sound to work just running the game file.

With Scummvm it cuts out some of the game, I noticed at the start with scummvm it doesn't have the action parts on the bike etc. Also later on I think it skipped a whole section cause it gave me some new items and suddenly a jump appeared before the broken bridge. It gave me some message on the screen about mines or something.

Also you can't use the keyboard when using scummvm to control. It was so hard controlling the car with the mouse in the demolition derby.

I'll have to play again and sacrifice sound just to see what scummvm cut out. The graphics and animation is alot smoother without scummvm too.

Is there another way to get Sound to work without scummvm?

(EDIT: I got the sound to work without it by running the imuse.exe)

I think If I'd played the game before Grim Fandango I might think differently, but FT sucks, so I couldn't care a less about FT2, I don't feel as close to Ben as I did to Manny.

[remixor]

new sequels of old favorites generaly suck. I hope they never make a Sam and Max 2, that would be an offence deserving death penalty.

I'm not sure if you know this already, in which case your post was simply intended as irony, but LucasArts announced development of Sam and Max 2 some time ago.  Purcell is working on it though so I have more hope for that game than for FT2.

[jannar85]

Lol! ScummVM don't support FT fully yet. It jumps to different parts at the moment. That will probably teach you not to download warez, k?

[Timosity]

Lol! ScummVM don't support FT fully yet. It jumps to different parts at the moment. That will probably teach you not to download warez, k?

I can still play it though now cause I worked out how to set up the sound, so I don't need Scummvm.

I would have bought it if I could find it but after playing it I wouldn't pay more than $10 AUS for it.

[DGMacphee]

I never played it but was Simon the Sorceror 3 a fully 3d game?

[Helm]

eric: Have times changed so much that a good idea in 1997 isn't a good idea anymore? If it's not broken, don't fix it, is what I say.

I'd love to see a hi res painted backgrounds full throttle that is innovative where it should be: in the character development, the puzzles, and the feel of the game world. Hell, I wouldn't mind it terribly if it were in a competently designed 3d world, as long as the game is about exploring the concept of FT. Do you think several levels of road-rash street fights and shooty action (which seems to be what this game is going to be about, although I would be the first to take that back if it comes out and it does have a good storyline)will do that? I'm not really sure.


Also, your point about it being their game doesn't mean anything. Of course it's their game. It's not like we're discussing it so we can affect the way it'll be made. We're to enjoy (or suffer) the final game anyway, but that doesn't nagate the point of discussing how the current game industry works, through the spectrum of FT2.

[Trapezoid]

Don't you think the way we anticipate the game will affect our final opinions when it finally comes out? If we get it into our minds that the game "sucks" before it comes out, it might be hard to shake that idea, even as we play it.

[remixor]

Don't you think the way we anticipate the game will affect our final opinions when it finally comes out? If we get it into our minds that the game "sucks" before it comes out, it might be hard to shake that idea, even as we play it.

No, I honestly don't think so.  I WANT FT2 to be good, to live up to its predecessor, I just really don't think it will do so at this point.  If it's not a good game, I won't be overly surprised, but if it truly is a good game, I will most definitely not hang on to any misplaced criticisms.

[n3tgraph]

ah crap

again the    'technology vs. gameplay'   thingy

hard to tell:
I just wish they kept the game in concept art:



3d games aren't bad.... but they are actually only good for shooters.
just like jedi knight 2 - a great lec game imo

[Jimi]

I only like 3d when it's on  a world war shoot em up, or a sim type game.

[Privateer Puddin']

yeh that looks fantastic, but we've yet to see that in 3d form

[remixor]

ah crap

again the    'technology vs. gameplay'   thingy

hard to tell:
I just wish they kept the game in concept art:

Yeah, I remember first seeing that, thinking "Holy crap!", immediately viewing all the actual in-game screenshots, and wondering how the hell so much could become lost in the translation.

[PeaceMan]

I don't mind if Lucasarts decide to include some action elements into Full Throttle 2 because it seems a bit pointless to have a game about bikers and not even have control of the bike or not have a fight sequence. as long as the game is a bit longer this time it should be great. The only thing that concerns me is the 3D graphics because they look too blocky just like in EFMI. I think it should stay 2D just like CMI. 8)

[n3tgraph]

If they made a game like the pic I posted, I would be happy

[Trapezoid]

Because graphics matter.

[12431]

full throttle. haven't played that in a very long time.

[jetxl]

the 3d graphics look crap. I have seen much better 3d background in the critics lounge.

[evenwolf]

but the 3d backgrounds in the critics lounge are... 2d...


ah, nevermind.  I have no gripes about the game- it looks very similar to a game I wanted to make ever since  Vigilante 8 for PlayStation. The main character I had designed actually ended up very Ben-like:

[GarageGothic]

Well, the Indiana Jones series turned into Tomb Raider (and looking at the latest game, Buffy) and now Full Throttle goes 3d action style as well. Makes me wonder how the sequels to some of the other LucasArts games would look.

Imagine "Loom 2" as a cutesy PS2 platform game with Bobbin jumping around, shooting musical notes from his stick - Harry Potter-style. Or how about "Maniac Sims" where you take control of the Edison household and get the chance to purchase a bigger nuclear reactor for the basement, breed tentacles and, of course, take care of trespassing kids.

[scotch]

Sounds like a good Photoshop Phriday idea

[n3tgraph]

what about a monkey island shoot em up

where guybrush carries around all kinds of hunky weapons

[Igor]

Must say i didn't like much original FT (that is, except for the eyeballs-dropping graphics), so i don't really care about sequel. But i agree with Helm. I mean, i'm sure Doom players would go nuts if Doom3 turned out to be a point&click adventure. The same is here, except reversed. If "go with technology and new trends" means we'll get a dumbed-down sequels of classic games, it's ok with me, but i won't buy them.

[DGMacphee]

Sounds like a good Photoshop Phriday idea

I do believe you're right!

And so it shall be for next Phriday!

[Trapezoid]

They have some new, much higher quality screenshots on the FT page now.
http://www.lucasarts.com/products/hellonwheels/

[n3tgraph]

wow it looks like mafia and gta3 :

[edmundito]

I think full throttle fits the actiony style, if done right. But lucasarts just seems to recycle old things now days like making indy too tomb raider (even the outdated graphics) and so on.

Recently, I bought Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell, and I noticed that on IGN they categorize the game as "third person adventure". Maybe they're right. the game is not much about action, but about skill and wit, and if you don't do it right you have to shoot and sometimes die, and isn't that what adventure is all about? of course you don't have to solve puzzles heavily or anything, but you still have to talk to people and find objects. it almost reminds me of Pleurghburg DA during those times you had to do the right thing (in other words, when you had to use your weapon ) I still think it's almost an action adventure, but it's totally different from Tomb Raider. Of course this type of action-adventure was invented a few years back with Metal Gear Solid (and they call MGS2 on IGN "ADVENTURE"?!!)

The time is right for Full Throttle. the original really pushed the 2d boundaries in many ways, and now that 3d is so easily available, it makes sense to make the sequel. However, LEC (LucasFilm Entertainment company*) really needs to put more effort into the game. Plus, they also need to stop overcartooning everything, like they did with EMI and now they seem to do with FT. I think 3D advnenture games are a different type of deal now, and they need to be more of action than wits, but still have the wits be domninant in some sort of way, and have some action sequences, like PDA, from time to time. There's one person who noticed this detail, and his name was Ron Gilbert. He added the idea of point + click (he said that he hated adventure games, and he made them to his idea of what a fun adventure should be) and eventually redefined the style of adventure games. I think the time is right to go one step further, so adventure games can survive.

Of course, here we are old-fashioned, and we make advneture games of the 90s. but if we ever go 3d, we're going to have to change.

The End

* If you look at the screenshots on LucasArts' website, it says "LucasFilm Entertainment Company" so I'm guessing that's the official name for LucasArts. Long live LEC!

---

Actually, I just realized that the MGS style is more like the Alone in the Dark style invented around 1992. See? they had to make a adventure game that worked with 3d.... and I guess they picked up the concept when 3D became mainstream.