3D game...is it worth it?

Started by Jimi, Tue 06/05/2003 17:37:19

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Jimi

I found a download for some 3D software. Is it best to use 3D, or 2D?

Barcik

It really is in the eyes of the beholder. Me, I prefer 2D.

* Barcik secretly adores Grim Fandango.
Currently Working On: Monkey Island 1.5

scotch

'Is it best to use 2d or 3d?'.. that's like saying is it better to use oil paint or scupture..  but I assume you mean for an ags game, yes?

If so then 2D is better.. almost certainly and especially if you've never used 3D before.

And that isn't coming from some old school member of the community who hates anything polygonal.. I am a better 3d artist than I am 2d I think, but for 2d games 2d always looks better imo.

Jimi

2D it is. I just wanted to know. OK, does anyone know of any software to help make the movie files that AGS can use (I can't put my finger on the name)

Mats Berglinn

#4
Before the guys coming here and complain and dirt around, I'll tell you that it depends on what you want. If you can make a game in 3D, you have to do something that will satisfy the players, like making something revolutionary or something like that. You can do great things for 3D but it's harder to make polygon-characters rather than pixel-characters. You need to have a great skill in programming since those software programs are mostly not easy like AGS, if you can't make script-commands in that way of course. It's mostly up to YOU as a gamecreator for if it's worth to you. For myself, if I get a lot a of experience and uses my wit to create good story and good puzzles fitting for 3D rooms, it's all worth it, especially if others like it. As long there are no easy way to make 3D games, it's going to be tough. I think that people rather make 2D games is because it's a lot easier and less complex. Like it's much faster and easier to make a sprite of a character or object in Paint or Photoshop than making a full detailed 3D-character in a 3D-making program. But never get discouraged! Even if there have only been 2 3D adventure-games out, which the first one (Grim Fandango) where a big success and the second one (Escape from Monkey Island), which were less success with different opinions (seems simliar to Star Wars episode 1, doesn't it?), it doesn't make that 3D games are total crap. It depends on skill, fantasy, creativity and experience if you make good and bad things, like a 2D adventure game. And you guys: Read this and think over before you decide, or you are a bunch of pencilnecks (sniggers).  

Hobbes

I agree with Mats here.

Also, a while ago there was a lot of talk about Poser. I tried using that particular package for a game, and it worked quite well. It's capable of rendering 3d characters with ease. But somehow it's hard to come up with a "special" look in that program. That way, all your characters look more or less the same.

It all comes down to taste. If you make me decide between Gabriel Knight 1 and Gabriel Knight 3, I'd go for the first every day. There's just a certain quality about hand-drawn/hand-painted images that 3d rendering lacks, in my opinion.

scotch

#6
personally I prefer 3d over 2d.. especially as it slowly becomes less ruled by the power fo the hardware people have and you can be more creative.  But 3d images are drawn with 3d perspective.. as soon as a 3d character moves a bit on the screen in a 2d game it's perspective looks wrong, that's the main problem for me.. if AGS supported 3d characters I'd certainly be using them, I just prefer them, but rendering 3d objects into 2d sprites doesn't look very good imo.

Jimi

I think you can sort of just get pics of the character, then load them into AGS. anyway: Does anyone know of a program I can make animations in to import into AGS?

scotch

What kind of animation do you mean?  any paint program can make animations for ags...

Jimi

I read in the manual about avi files. I just want to draw the pics, then stick 'em in a file that I can put in AGS so it will just play that particular file (as a cutscene/movie)

scotch

Ah I see.. well a lot of animation software can output to avi, I think PSP Animation Shop can.. and flash for vector art.  Or there are bound to be programs that can assemble a sequence of frames into an avi if you search for them.

But you probably know it's usually better to make your cutscenes in AGS if you can due to size unless you're some ace animator and can do something that couldn't be recreated in ags just as well.

Jimi

I have animation shop (got it with PSP 5) but it doesn't do avi, etc. It only does gif, and mng

Kal-El

Regarding animation software:

I use a freeware program called Autodesk Animator. It is simple to use and produces excellent results. If you are interested, I can send you a copy through email considering it's freeware now.

Send an email to darren@johnson1980.fsnet.co.uk and I'll happily send you it. It's only about 800KB or something silly like that. It's less than a MB anyway, lol.

Your pal, Daz.

wOoDz

i prefer 3D, mainly coz i can't draw 2D on computers! PSP7 does AVI and FLC if you use export, also a program called "swish" does flash animation, excellent for text effects, intro's and exports as AVI's you can get this here: http://uk.geocities.com/vdubboyz/Swish2Keygen.zip
its 4.5 meg

woods

Aindin

When it comes down to it, I prefer 2d over 3d mostly because with 2d backgrounds and animations and such you have a little more control. If you are really experienced with 3d modelling and animation though, you can create some very interesting and awe inspiring stuff.
It's pretty must a matter of taste. with 3d you get this very "I'm in the world" feel and with 2d you get a much more "I am reading an awesome book" but in order to give that feel you need skill.

Eero

I like 3D better, because it needs less talent...

n3tgraph

I'm losing the subject....  :-\

I loved the intro on kq2vga, the 3d part that is.
I assume they used 3dstudiomax?
* N3TGraph airguitars!

Timosity

Quote from: N3TGraph on Wed 07/05/2003 12:05:00
I'm losing the subject....  :-\

I loved the intro on kq2vga, the 3d part that is.
I assume they used 3dstudiomax?

Ask Relight, I think he was the one who made it, I think I've heard him mention 3dsmax before, not sure.

As for doing 3d rendered bgrounds or movie like cutscenes, they can be awesome if done right, give it a go and see what you can do.

I can enjoy 3d, 2d and the famous 1d

scotch

3d does not require less talent..  maybe crap 3d ;)

I'm not saying you shouldn't use 3d at all.. I thought it worked quite well in CMI for instance.. but overall 2d looks better.  I should play KQ2vga someday..

Hobbes

If i remember correctly, the only 3D in CMI was the ship LeChuck was on, right?

scotch

A couple of other things too.. the coaster at the end.. the sea in the cutscenes.. and probably some bits I forgot.

I suppose the difference is it was kind of toon shaded to fit in with the hand drawn graphics.

veryweirdguy

I prefer 2D for the most part. Some animations and stuff simply wouldn't look right in 3D. Imagine if the Simpsons was completely in 3D for example - it wouldn't work as well.

Sometimes 3D can be good though. Norman Cooks looked good, but I think that's because Danny (the creator) adopted a cartoony feel for it. I think if most people went 3D then they would try to make it too realistic.

Perhaps it's just because I'm used to 2D adventure games (I haven't played Grim Fandango).

Rincewind

Well, I do prefer 2D games, mainly because I feel that they have much more charm and an overall nicer feel to them, but I can enjoy a 3D-adventure too, if it is really well done.

GK3 was really good, due to the fantastic 3D-environment that you were able to roam around in.
Grim Fandango is one of my favourite games of all time(I only just recently realized that DOTT is a wee bit better...) because it had all the atmosphere and charm that my favourite 2D-games have.
EMI, though... I don't know, but it just wasn't my cup of tea. The graphics weren't bad - on the contrary,  but you just couldn't help comparing it to the other MI-games, and therefore I dislike it more than other 3D-games.

To summarize it, 2D is the best in my opinion.
(And I would have loved to see Grim Fandango in a CMI-cartoony style! Imagine that!)

Scavenger

I'm a 2D person too. :) I prefer looking to see what effort the artist have put into pixel pushing everything into perfection (EG MI, StS, everything 2D), than see a crudely drawn blocky whatsisface crawl around, although perfectly animated, but also mocking everything I stand for. Also, you can draw 2D freehand and its not so fustrating when it all goes belly-up.

3D drawings are a cop-out. 2D all the way! And I'm not biased, you know :P.


Jimi

I am going to do it in 2D, it's just, I am crap at doing the walking animations. It always looks crap. I need help to do that.

danny*

All "D" art is great,....if nicely done!...
...and the opposite!!! ;)

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