Gabriel Knight interface

[GarageGothic]

Seeing as most current AGS games use a KQ5-style GUI, I'd like to know what people here think about the "expanded" Sierra GUI used for the first Gabriel Knight game. As some of you might know, I'm writing a game in the GK style/genre, and I've been thinking a lot about interface issues lately.

First of all, the splitting up of the "talk" icon into two: "question" and "talk"/"chat". Was that really necessary? Except for a few people who you could talk to but not question, the "talk" icon seemed to be used for small talk, just some random comments, but in fact, several of the "question" conversations also had this kind of dialog. You could choose "compliment her" when talking to Gabriels grandmonther, and "Insult him" when talking to Mosely. To me the two icons seemed redundant.

Secondly, the splitting up of the "hand" icon into 4(!): Pick up, operate, open, push/move. I liked that "pick up" was a seperate icon. I've really missed that in earlier games. But I'm not so sure about the other three. I mean, the "open" icon - wouldn't that just be the obvious action when "operating" a door? I can't think of a single point in the game where "opening" something didn't perform the exact same action as "operating" it would have. I suppose it would make sense, if you had to remove the batteries from a flashlight instead of turning it on, but that's a bad example, because it's an inventory puzzle. As for the "move" icon, it probable could have it's uses. But is it used often enough? The only kind of puzzles that would need it are those where it isn't obvious that pushing something is the appropriate action to perform (say, finding the hidden passages in The Colonel's Bequest).

And finally, what did you think of the inventory action icons, LOOK, READ and OPEN? "Open" was hardly used at all (a single envelope I think, plus it could be used on books, but so could "read"). "Look" and "read" does make sense within the genre ("look" being the casual glance at the object, "read" being the careful study of written matter). What I'm considering is replacing "read" (for closed books) and "open" with some sort of action icon, which would open the flashlight from the earlier example as well as opening books for reading. Does this make any sense?

As an additional question, how do you feel about operating inventory items by clicking them on the player character? One rather unfortunate example of this is when you click the empty bowl on Graham in KQ1VGA to make him say the magic word - I would never have thought of that if I didn't know the solution from the original version of the game. It's a kind of inventory interaction that shows the flaws of the classic GUI interface. My thoughts on this is that it should only be used when actually applying them to the character (clothes, make-up, hair gel, whatever) and perhaps also when "equipping" an item (such as a flashlight or a gun), but I'm not even sure that's a good idea. All other interaction with inventory objects (that doesn't involve objects or characters in the background) should take place within the inventory screen (or in closeups of items after looking at them).

It'd be interesting to hear other's thoughts on this.

[Hobbes]

As a major fan of the GK adventures, I simply love the GK interface. Yes, it has its cumbersome issues (as you expertly point out), but somehow it had... style. It gave you the feeling you were operating within a real world, instead of a simulated environment.

The move/operate issue is something which I found bothersome as well. But I kinda liked the two talk-options. I know the "!" one wasn't used all that often, but it was fun.

Operating stuff on the character. I like this. In GK1, for example, using the hair gel to (partly) transform you into a priest was enjoyable. The interface of the inventory also didn't bother me one bit. I liked how you had "Open" in there as well, despite its little usage. Somehow it all felt "right".

But I am a crazed fan of the series, so that's probably just me.

[GarageGothic]

Don't get me wrong. I'm a crazed fan as well, which is why I want to use the interface in the first place. But still, I feel there is room for improvement.

My current interface has these commands: Walk, look, talk,  pick up, operate + the inventory and file menu(save/restore/settings) icons. Talk works differently depending on whether or not you need to interrogate the person or just chat with them (for instance, you wouldn't need to question a street vendor about plot-related topics, so instead you would just get Monkey Island style dialog options at the bottom of the screen where you could haggle or choose what to buy).

All suggestions are welcome.

[Rincewind]

Agreeing totally with Hobbes here. I Love all of the GK-games.
I have nothing against the GK1 interface, and didn't have any problems with it at all.

The Talk/Question option is great in my opinion, as it adds to the realism in the game - Instead of just going around questioning everyone you find in the game, you can also just chit-chat with people if you feel like it. (As in real life)
(Although what GG says about the talk option depending on whether you need to interrogate the person or not is a great idea. I'd go for that if I was you.)

The many actions(Push, open, interact, pick up, etc...) is also a nice touch imo, since it demands more of the player, and thus makes it a bit more interesting to play.

[Mr Jake]

I havnt played any other of the GK games then #1 (cause I cant seem to find them) but I liked the interface,
much better then the PC thinking your trying to open somrthing when your tying to pick it up etc...

[Vel]

I liked the GK3 interface most. It had very nice options, especially the "hide" one.

[Proskrito]

about operating inventory items by clicking on the player, i would'nt like it so much, i would prefer operating them directly, as in lucas games. But, you wouldnt be able to use these items on anything else, so, as long as the item should be able to be used on other things as well as the player, i think it´s ok.

[DragonRose]

I think that in GK1 there were indeed too many "interaction" options.  As GG said, if you interact with a door, you're probably going to open or close it.  If you interact with a book, you're going to read it. But the same could be said for the SCUMM interface.  Do you really need a push and a pull, an open and a close etc., etc?  Other than that, I thought it was great.  I'm using a modified version of it in my game, where there is walk, talk, look (identifies an object) inspect (gives other sensory details about it- it's colour, what it smells like, what emotions it gives the PC) take and interact, as well as inventory and spells.

I also like the idea of being able to interact with the player character.  In KQ1VGA, they were kind of stuck with having to click the bowl on Graham because there was no way to type in "say Fill!" and they were trying to keep it as close to the original as possible.  But there were lots of times when interacting with the character works really well.  In KQ5, you have to make sure Graham eats the ham and wears the cloak, so you click them on him.  In KQ6, the invisible ink puzzle and when Alexandre dresses up as a maid required the player to interact with the player character.  It also opens up the door to some interesting humour, like in the QG games when you click a dagger on yourself, or a rock, or a lockpick (my personal favourite).

[Gonzo]

Well, as long as an interface isn't annoying and makes sense, I don't see any problem. Whilst things like the GK1 and verb box SCUMM GUI have some perhaps superfluous options, it doesn't really do them any harm. In fact the SCUMM verb box is probably my favourite ever GUI. Some might say it offers a more interesting challenge. I certainly think a GUI like the 'Broken Sword' one with the left-click clever cursor and the right-click look may be going a bit far. (Even though I'm considering it for my game).

As for using objects on the player character, I think you might be able to make it so the objects don't become the 'Use x with...' cursor after you've selected them in the inventory, and instead just trigger a response once you click 'Use' on them. Sam And Max Hit The Road used a trimmed-down Sierra-style GUI (walk,look,use,take,talk) and when you went into the inventory and clicked 'Use' on a certain outfit, Sam said something like "This isn't the time or the place." Surely that's possible in AGS?