guy or gal

[jetxl]

Do you want to play as a male hero or female hero?

[evenwolf]

WOW!


What a thrilling topic for discussion!  I AM just bursting with debate on this one! I just can't say enough! Wait till every AGSer sees this and instantaneously explodes!   Male hero or female hero, the possibilities are endless!

Where to start?...... wrong forum, yay!
and then, hmm, no INFO whatsover on what project or thing this question refers to!!! Wheeeeeee!
And hmmm, if you don't know already, how are you going to make a whole game? Errrrrrr. And Oh, ARE you making a game? Or is this some bizaare question in general trying to tap into our masculine or feminine psyches??!?!?


Wowowowowowowoowowow! If only smart ass comments like these (mine) would remotely deter  threads like these from being made! If only!

[D · Y · D · O]

Play nice now, guys and gals!

[veryweirdguy]

I'll start with what I think will be most people's answer.....

It doesn't matter.

What really matters with a player character is someone you can relate to, ie. the player feels sympathy towards the character when he is sad or hurt, feels happy for them when it all goes right in the end, etc etc.

Of course, this is different if the game is a comedy. A lot of comedy is just like tragedy, only you feel less sorry for the character. You laugh when they are hurt etc.

At least, that's what I think.

[evenwolf]

DYDO:  No no!!! guy OR gal, remember! You can't have both!


Seriously... am I being too harsh?  It just seems like AGSers feel compelled to start threads these days... yet have no desire to come up with anything beyond "Red or Blue?"

I just don't know how to respond to that in any way mature.  "Violet?"

[SSH]

DYDO:  No no!!! guy OR gal, remember! You can't have both!

Be original: make the first adventure game with a hermaphrodite as the main character.

[D · Y · D · O]

Even: Well, I guess my comment was something of an attempt to deflate a possible DANGEROUS situation with FATAL consequences.

But, ofcourse, you were trying to make a good point (rather effectively, I think). Concerning your point, I'm not sure where I stand. I'm not really bothered by trivial threads. Perhaps you shouldn't post in these to start with, but I'm sure that won't work. I guess I don't know, I just post here.

On topic:

I think a gal could be interesting. Make her wimpy and girly and give her an arc in your game, where at the end she's kind of tough as nails. I'm thinking along the lines of Sarah Connor (Terminator) or Ellen Ripley (Alien).

[evenwolf]

See, but I'm not even going to try to pretend like this thread has credibility. I don't see how you can respond and try to interpret what is being asked. Even the top possibilities for what he means isn't enough.

"In general, do you enjoy playing male characters or female?"  
My answer: Well, I like playing a female, but I do get tired of wearing the high heels all the time.

"I am about to make a game- should the main character be male or female?"
My answer: Make the character Pat from Saturday Night Live. That will be the quest of the game-  to figure out if you are a male or female.  

[D · Y · D · O]

Well, I agree, the question could easily have been less vague.

[cornjob]

You know I had an idea for a game where the player character was dressed in a full body, boba fett type armor. Then at the end of the game, the character takes the helmet off, and reveals what he/she looks like. But who you turn out to be was affected by how you played the game. So it could be revealed that you are a man or woman, or even a monster, like the twilight zone episode with the masks. Or SKELETONS!!!

[Shattered Sponge]

Sort of like a cross between Metroid and Bioforge, then, Cornjob?  Interesting...

[DGMacphee]

I play a game as a potato, just as long as I enjoy that potato's company.

Potatoes rule!!!

[Enos Shenk]

jesus harold, people here split finer hairs then the folks on the macaddict forums...

[jetxl]

WOW!
What a thrilling topic for discussion!  I AM just bursting with debate on this one! I just can't say enough! Wait till every AGSer sees this and instantaneously explodes!   Male hero or female hero, the possibilities are endless!
Where to start?...... wrong forum, yay!
and then, hmm, no INFO whatsover on what project or thing this question refers to!!! Wheeeeeee!
And hmmm, if you don't know already, how are you going to make a whole game? Errrrrrr. And Oh, ARE you making a game? Or is this some bizaare question in general trying to tap into our masculine or feminine psyches??!?!?
Wowowowowowowoowowow! If only smart ass comments like these (mine) would remotely deter  threads like these from being made! If only!

dear evenwolf,
I don't want your oppinion on the general discussion board but your oppinion on my question.

Most games have male hero's.
Is this a golden formula or can I be original and make the hero a girl.

In some games it doesn't matter, still I have to pick a character!

Now lets all focus on me and on my question.
WHEN YOU PLAY/THINK UP AN ADVENTURE GAME DO YOU WANT TO PLAY AS A GAL OR GUY!!111!ii!1!!iii111!!!

fuck it, I'll make both.

[Evil]

Female, it works for both sexes. Men like the idea of controling a woman. Women like the idea of being a woman more then being a man. Plus... Women have boobs...

[scotch]

I don't really mind, although I'd prefer to play a well defined character than a blank canvas type generic adventure male who I can pretend is me.  So really I'd say don't choose male just because most game players are male. (And don't choose female because most adventure game players are males who want to play sexy females )
Probably best to start with something else to define the character than if the it will be male or female.

[shitar]

I prefer being a male character.

[Andail]

Evenwolf, if you're gonna over-react, do it with somebody who hasn't already contributed to the forums with games, good ones at that, and a good record of interesting discussions.

[TheYak]

Of course most adventure games don't really have the feeling of "being there" or have situations relative to the average person's life.  I don't think they have the RPG potential to pretend (however mildly) that the character on-screen is you.  Am I wrong?  When playing an adventure game, I see it as more of a challenge to help the little guy/girl figure out their situation.  It's not until you get into FPS/RPG/Simulations that enough interactivity and realism comes into play enabling you to mentally jump into a character's shoes.  

I don't think you should pick a character based on what people what to associate with but rather one that fits the situation.  Sometimes it's the generic hero that fits best.  Or as in Leisure Suit Larry, could we really imagine someone other than Larry in that role?  If he were suave and sophisticated, the game could be awfully dull.  

Relating to some above comments:  It's a bit harsh to put down a thread in the general forum that is at least adventure game related.  Hell, 90% of the threads here deal with stuff having nothing to do with the reason we're all here.  However, I would recommend being more specific in your posts, Jet.  People are less likely to think the thread's a waste of space if you give a little more info.  Is your game full of adventure and life-threatening situations?  Is it more of a socially-oriented game?  With more detail, you might actually get recommendations that mean something.   Also, try searching for a topic to see if it's been started before.  I know I've participated in this sort of thread at least twice before.

[Darth Mandarb]

I'd have to say I prefer playing a male character because I can relate to it more.  I agree with Yak's comments about the character being a completely seperate character and not 'you' on-screen.  I much prefer playing a male character that is not me.

About the topic of this post.  No matter what you post and how intelligent/specific/detailed it might be (or not be) there are always going to be those here who wine about it.  So, in my opinion, post whatever you want and don't worry, or respond, the those who complain about it.

cheers,
dm

[Andail]

Well, I'm not saying people shouldn't post thoughtfully and appropriately, I'm not even saying Evenwolf reacted on something I've never reacted on myself.

The way he reacted on, however, was unnecessarily sarcastic IMO.

Enough about this.

[evenwolf]

I over-react not to persons, but to actions.  There are so many ways one can use words to express himself or ask of others.  Obviously many points could be brought up such as "men are typically the heros".  Is it that we expect a male hero and frown upon a female hero?  Or is it just that not enough female heros have been presented?

Andail- surely you can understand my frustration.   Imagine being part of a debate and the topic is sex and food..   How do you even know what relationship to focus on? How to use food during sex? If you prefer food over sex?  Finding food sexually stimulating? Finding sex appetizing?

Sure there's a serious debate hiding somewhere- but instead we've turned it into something base simply because time wasn't taken to elaborate.

I'm sure I would have reacted somewhat more calmly if I knew Jet a tad more, or perhaps met him at mittens.  As I would have acted calmly with anyone.  I simply don't have time to research when I find a post very frustrating such as this, after such a time of trying to encourage mindful posts.  

by the by, Darth-  when you give advice to pay no attention what anyone thinks, how is it that you yourself are not encouraging someone else to accept your own beliefs? Uncanny! You defy logic! Here's a trophy!  Hypocrisy we shall call it.

*hmm, I appear to be an ass all of a sudden

[Darth Mandarb]

jet - see what I mean?

cheers,
dm

[Barcik]

I would rather play a female character because I like the protagonist to be different from me. I enjoy playing with a different personality.

[Ginny]

I think it doesn't matter, and I have no preference.
I would rather play an interesting male than a female without character, and vise versa.

I love Grim Fandango, which has a male character, and I love TLJ, which has a female character. What makes me love these games and they're characters isn't their protagonist's gender, it's the personality.

In the amateur adventure scene, there seem to be very little female protagonists, but that shouldn't be the reason that you make a game with a female character, the reason should be that it fits into the story to have a female. Of course, ussually the protagonist's gender isn't important, so it's all down to personal taste.
I think that I, like Barcik, like playing someone different from myself, which is why I like Manny from GF more than April from TLJ, but then again it could be just better writing of the character.

So each person prefers something else, but any character is good as long as it's well written and interesting.

[Lazy Dragonrose]

Be original: make the first adventure game with a hermaphrodite as the main character.

Snail Quest!  Helm wins!

[Robert Eric]

None of the above.

[rodekill]

I don't have a preference. Whatever suits the story.
I'd like to point out however, that there have been no games starring either eunuchs or hermaphrodites.

[rookworm3]

I prefer female main characters, but only if they're hot.

and naked.

p.s. I have dibs on "eunuch-quest". More info forthcoming.

[Femme Stab Mode >:D]

Well..
I prefer non-human characters to humans. I made Slime Quest and who the hell knows what sex is slime? I don't really care, as long as the character is realistic and likeable and I can feel for him/her/it.
As you can see in the banner in my signature, I do prefer female characters just a little more than male, but the main character in my RPG is male. The female characters fight and do all the cool stuff too. But overall, I'm neutral on this.

[GarageGothic]

Great topic, but unfortunately I only have a few minutes to reply.

I prefer playing female characters - in adventures as well as in any other genre. If you can choose your (or rather, your character's ) gender, I always choose female. Usually because I find it easier to relate to females than to the weird macho representations of men in computer games. Maybe that's just my gay side talking.

But I'm not sure there have been any really memorable female player characters in adventure games - April Ryan didn't do much for me, nor did Laura Bow. I hope to create an original female player character myself with Dinah in Shadowplay. She's certainly very different from any classical female stereotype.

[Captain Mostly]

wow. For a newbie, evenwolf takes his role round here REALLY seriously!

[Dmitri]

even- calm it dude,

why does a post need to be long to be meaningful?

Look at Dg, he compresses his posts into one liners,

yet they still have meaning, he even made two agsers go away.

All Jet's post HAD to do was introduce the matter to us.

No more... we extrapolate and discuss the rest.

Hostility is not required.

[Nellie]

I like Evenwolf's tough new image.

He used to be all forgiving and tolerant, like in some sappy Robin Williams film.  But now he's like...  like...   The TERMINATOR...  yeah!

* Nellie imagines Even in leather on a Harley Davidson.

[Captain Mostly]

I heard that EvenWolf beats someone up with a urinal in the new film... is this true?!

[Czar]

So this refers to Evens first, and i think other posts:

Imagine being part of a debate and the topic is sex and food.. How do you even know what relationship to focus on? How to use food during sex? If you prefer food over sex? Finding food sexually stimulating? Finding sex appetizing?

Well i dont get you getting so over-reactive, while you could be the one who can expand the topic, he gave us multiple choices and thats what could make this a deeper discussion. So i second what Dmitri said.

and btw Nellie, did you see Even candidating for the governor?Vote for him!

[Darth Mandarb]

GarageGothic and Femme Fetale make some good points but I think GinnyW (is that Ginny Weasley by chance?) said it best with "but any character is good as long as it's well written and interesting."

evenwolf - if you had read my post thoroughly you would have seen the part that says 'IN MY OPINION'.  It's not hipocritical to give somebody my opinion, nor is it 'encouraging them to accept it'.  Please read carefully.  Thanks.

Let's get back on topic now shall we?

cheers,
dm

[Robert Eric]

* Nellie imagines Even in leather on a Harley Davidson

:o  I'm not even going to ask.

[evenwolf]

darth-

No that doesn't work- because as we know, you and I do not have a pleasant history with eachother.  I feel there is some form of animosity and you tried to take advantage of this contraversial lapse in my reputation  as a means of gaining leverage over me.  You have an opinion about me, perhaps you've suppressed this in the past.  Yet you act like nothing is personal with you, that nothing phases you. But that's not true, the fact that you singled out my original post and  referenced your own "cool" reaction in another thread is the very proof of that.  Your entire participation in this thread is personal, obviously.   So I find what you say and how you act to be hypocritical - disclaimers have little effect in that case.

You could perhaps argue "I don't challenge people immediately when they post such things, but rather I gradually try to discredit that person over time ", however you cannot say 'it simply washes over you'.  That would be inhuman, not to mention in this case - false.

As you can see, I've approached our relationship in a very mature way.  Without sarcasm, just plain old reasoning.  Reason back.

[Darth Mandarb]

sigh ... to those bored with this off topic posting I apologize.

even -  My statement in that other thread had nothing to do with you.

I thought perhaps you had mis-read what I wrote, so I clarified.

I am not trying to 'gain leverage over you'
I am not 'trying to take advantage of this contraversial lapse in your reputation'
I am not 'trying to discredit you over time'.

I would ask that you extend the same courtesy to me.

I have no animosity towards you.  I can tell that we're two completely different people who have vastly differing views about most things.  To be completely honest, I rather enjoy our 'debates'.  I find them entertaining.  

I appreciate you approaching this 'with maturity, without sarcasm, and just plain old reasoning'.  I guess I just don't see "Uncanny! You defy logic! Here's a trophy! Hypocrisy we shall call it." as any of that.

cheers,
dm

[evenwolf]

That last remark was contrasting one particular post to the previous.

And off topic or not, tis good to get such concerns off my chest. I wasn't going to start a whole thread "Darth, whats the deal?"  But cheers. and all that.

[jetxl]

Evenwolf.
You are still posting things that have nothing to do with my question.
If you think my question is not right then you DON'T HAVE to post.
Your logic has more anger then point.
If your mother asks you what you want to eat, do you react like this as well?

Where does all this anger come from? Do you have a lack in social scill? Did you had a lack of air when you were born? Is this question to personal because you have a girly name? I don't know.

Anyway, I'm ready to exept your apologies.

[evenwolf]

A man should be allowed to vent at times.

As nellie has said, I have defended people before- I have stood for calm and serenity and all that.  So I want to explode and cause a little chaos. Need I fill out an application?

Im not sure about you forcing an apology from me...

if I were to apologize at this point, its for choosing your thread in which to vent. But please do not exagerrate your devotion to this thread as you obviously opened it poorly. I stand by that. Sorry.

[Femme Stab Mode >:D]

Alright, back on topic.  The reason that there isn't much female main characters is because of prejudice by some because they expect a female to be wimpy. The only adventure game I played that had a female main character was uncertainty machine and that game is droolsome. Susan was a bit too stereotypical in the game but the game was great anyway.  Oh, and jetxl, the main character in my rpg has the same face as your avatar.

[plasticman]

until further notice, evenwolf becomes my favorite poster.

[jetxl]

Sorry.

I accept your apologie.

About personality.
In LSL7 there was a female-piratelike-maid that was swearing and cursing.
There was a character just like that in sam&max, but he was a male.
The female was funnier because girls are not allowed to swear and all that.
An example of sexe is more important than personality.

femme-Cool, I'm the hero!

[Andail_unplugged]

hehe, cheers for Evenwolf proving he's as human as the rest of us, well done, mate!

As for gender, both my and Goldmund's upcoming games will feature female main characters, so I hope people don't abhor the idea of having an alter ego of the opposite sex. Whether I have managed to make Sibylla very personal is another question. Let alone feminine...

[TheYak]

Personally, I would love to see a few more convincing female characters.  However, there have been very few that have been convincing in any way.  Merely because a person is female doesn't necessarily mean that they'll react with cowardice or confusion in any given situation.  

In The Longest Journey, for example, I thought April Ryan was a nicely done character but lacked realism in the following way:

Poor voice acting - Not necessarily acting ability in this case as much as inappropriate responses.  She was overly emotional when the situation didn't call for it and was overly hostile at the slightest provocation.  If she'd been drawn up as an unstable person with a severe personality quirk then it might've made more sense.  (On an unrelated note - I love the Flipster (Not related to Flippy_D whom I despise whenever I remember to  )).

On yet another note, I think Evenwolf and Darth should probably debate one another in IM's or IRC.  If it's relevant - fine.  As soon as you guys notice it's gone off topic and becomes a personal (rather than group) discussion, you ought to stop or continue via IMs.  There's really no need for the rest of us to deal with potential hostility.  

[Femme Stab Mode >:D]

femme-Cool, I'm the hero!

heh, no. Your avatar just matches the face in one of the free resources I used.  

[Captain Mostly]

I think the reason there are so few female lead characters is because most people who make computer games aren't able to aproach character development in a mature way without sarcasm etc etc. Hence (thanks to the obviously HORRIBLE people like Darth) we get loads of under-developed characters with overdeveloped characteristics (hello Jill of the Jungle!)

Thankfully we have those marvelous conservors of morality like EvenWolf to guard us from naughty imature folk. And from discussing the female role in computer games! Go Thought Police!

[Darth Mandarb]

Character development is the key ... definately.

You must make sure there is a strong foundation to your character to start the game with.

The character must 'grow' as the game progresses so he/she 'developes' throughout.

I always liked that about (some) RPGs where you start off one way, and by the end you're the same, but better character because you've gained so much experience.  You're stronger, faster, smarter, etc.

You really get attached to characters like this, which, in my opinion, makes for a better game experience.

So I guess we've determined that the sex of the lead character doesn't matter??

cheers,
dm