Old Sierra Adventures on your cellphone - Possible platform for new adventures?

Started by jaz, Mon 15/12/2003 10:33:00

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jaz

Hey, anybody aware of this?

http://opentrap.narod.ru/

(56'ers note that it could take some time to load all the pics)

I have found this websit a couple months ago and quickly forgot it. Now I have stumbled over it one more time. These guys port old Sierra quests (SQ, TQ, KQ, LSL, Black Cauldron) to Symbian enabled mobile phones.
Since I have one of these gadgets I have tried the Time quest demo and it was cool, just like in the old days. I'm definatelly looking forward to further releases (that is, should they obtain rights from Sierra).

So my questions are:

Any of you tried this and if so, how did you like it?
Do you think adventure games on cellphones have some future?

jaz

GarageGothic

How about a cellphone port of AGS? ;)

Seriously though, why do people bother with these things? Sure, it's fun that you can actually do it, but I'm sure that the only people who would actually play these games already played them on the pc. I'd be so much happier if all these people making ports and remakes spent the time on a multi-platform DOS emulator that actually worked instead.

juncmodule

Let me see you type fast on that thing!!!

Personally I don't understand it. I think it is really cool, but it's just not practical.

Brian Provinciano (SCI Studio creator) was porting AGI to the Game Boy Advance, he was going to have a pop up keypad on screen(I think it would pause action, just like in SCI games). I just think it would be bulky for typing.

Now, point and click on the other hand makes sense to me. I'm pretty sure ScummVM has a pocket PC port and a few others. It would be great to see a GBA port of MI1 and MI2!!

I guess if you REALLY love a game, then you will play it even if it is bulky and what-not ::)

later,
-junc

Joseph DiPerla

Well, if you look at one of the Nokia phones, it flips open into a keyboard. So that helps.

Besides that, many of those phones also support external keyboad attachments. I think those type of games could work on phones.

Also we need to remember something, no matter how bulky the game is, if your at a very boring event or place, you dont care. Your gonna play those games anyway.

JD
Joseph DiPerla--- http://www.adventurestockpile.com
Play my Star Wars MMORPG: http://sw-bfs.com
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Pumaman

Blimey, my phone battery only lasts about 24 hours on standby - I'd probably only get about 10 minutes of gameplay out of it between recharges.

I dunno, it just seems to me that a mobile phone screen is far too small to be able to see all the detail you need to play an adventure game. Plus, as junc says, any old typing interface games would be an interface nightmare :)

Esseb

I can imagine it working just fine. The resolutions of old adventure games aren't that great and with the size of the cellphone displays increasing I don't see how that will be too much of a problem.

Regarding the input, an SMS message really doesn't take too long to write, even using proper spelling, assuming the port borrows the idea of a dictionary.

For those who don't know what it is, most mobile phones include a word dictionary which helps speed up typing. Instead of hitting 44 33 555 555 666 to type in hello you simply type in 43556 and see if the word "hello" came up, if another word which uses the same input came up you simply hit the * to scroll through the available words. Seeing as how pretty much all text adventures include a world list it wouldn't be too hard to look up the available words in this. In addition a basic word list should be supplied on the side so that it's possible to type in common words that isn't used in the game.

With such a method I think text adventures on mobiles would work very well. I'm not sure if this particular port uses a method like it however.

GarageGothic

QuoteAlso we need to remember something, no matter how bulky the game is, if your at a very boring event or place, you dont care. Your gonna play those games anyway.

Ah, young people today. In the old days we never worried about battery time and interfaces. Our biggest problem was if the paperback novel would fit in our coat pocket.

jaz

hmm, I kinda expected such reactions...
As I have tried the demo I can say that it was quite playable. I wasn't able to turn T9 dictionary on so I had to type "SMS style" but even this was manageable. (They say that predictive text input will be possible)

But I have to agree that to revive old games is not exactly the right way to go. I's obvious that ports of old Quests have text input but it's more like a nostalgic thing for those who remember.

What I was thinking about was "is there any opportunity for NEW adventure games specially designed for cellphones?" These things sure have capacity to run a point and click adventure and soon computing power and memory will not be an issue. Screen size could be a problem but ,hey, my phone has a 176x208 pixel resolution. And it is capable to smoothly run scrolling (even paralax) BGs. If you make a two screen BG you have a 352x208 resolution.

Let me show you this



It's a screenshot from game I've just purchased - Townsmen for Nokia. It's a strategy, quite simillar to The Settlers on PC, and it plays great. And it looks just sweet. What I mean is, that if there is a place for strategies on market, there could be place for adventures as well. And they could look good. And if somebody comes up with a suitable interface, they can play good as well. I can easily imagine a Goblins-like game.

Regarding battery life, I must say that I'm quite unsatisfied with my battery but even though, while playing TQ demo yesterday I got some 2.5 hours of gameplay before I had to recharge. And I had a web browser running agsforums in the background. And I'm pretty positive it will get better with new models.

The major drawback IMO is the very nature of adventure games. Most of mobile games are designed to entertain you when you have some spare time to kill. Thus easy and quick platformers and shoot 'em ups rule. Adventures on the other hand are time consuming which could make them unattractive for cellphone users.

So what do you think, is there a chance for new mobile adventures?  

juncmodule

I think the problem lays in the device itself.

I don't think a cellphone is a good enough device for games, at least not in it's current form.

Once the cellphone, PDA, and GameBoy Advance are merged into one functional device, then yes, I think it will be an excellent platform.

A cell phone is nothing but a communication device and shouldn't really be used for anything else IMHO.

Until there is a functional way to combine the PDA and cell phone it just doesn't work. Right now the PDA cell phones combos on the market just look silly. I honestly don't know the solution, but there must be one.

The only reason I mention the GBA again is battery life. The thing is rather amazing, 8 hours of constant gameplay with the audio cranked. Really excellent stuff, but, in the end, even this isn't good enough. You still need three times that battery power. Right now this is the primary problem. Without a battery that will last you throughout the day, using the device constantly, there will not be an all in one device.

I think you also answer your own question with the whole shoot-em up example. I totally agree. This is why I shy away from the cell phone. I do not own one and will not own one. No one need to talk to me that bad. If they do, I have voice mail, and more importantly, email.

The type of people that use cell phones are the same type that react to 3D shooters like drooling cavemen. I don't mean your every day cell phone user. I mean the guy that sits in the restaraunt and talks on his cell phone at the top of his voice. The guy that stands in line in at a store, talking on the cell phone rather than paying the cashier while you wait behind him. These people drive me insane. I understand that there are a lot of people that NEED them for work, family communication, etc. That's fine.

Unfortunately, I think that these cro-magnon users make up the market that determines which type of games will get produced. I have a feeling that the fast-lane loud talking inconsiderate jerk doesn't have the mental capacity for an adventure game.

Wee! Rant. Sorry.

later,
-junc

jaz

You made some valid points, junc, especially battery life and cavemen that don't know how to behave.  

But all in all I have to disagree.  You say that cellphones should only be regarded as a communication device and shouldn't be used for anything else. Why? Decades ago people used to say "why should we use computers for anything else than computing missile trajectories?" Only later they saw that there is an open field of possibilities. I think that it's the same with mobile phones.
I guess you're an American but note that now cellphone penetration in population is about 95%(at least in our country but I think it applies to most of Europe, Japan, Korea and some other Asian countries are even further)  That pretty much means that everybody has a cellphone. And if cellphones are capable of something, why not take the advantage.
Also I have to disagree that cellphones are not godd enough device for games. I've tried dozens of games, many of them were crap, but there are a lot of highly entertaining and addictive ones. My favourites I spent long hours with were Prince of Persia (remake), FIFA 2003, Splinter Cell, Doom and many others. Believe me, it IS a good enough platform already. It's only a matter of interface. There even are 3D games that look and play good enough.

Maybe people underestimate gaming capabilities of cellphones because they think of them as phones only. I rather think of them as multi functional portable devices. There is a name for them: smartphones.  And almost EVERYBODY carries or soon will carry one around. Even though many are not interested in games, it's a huge target group for game developers. When I got my present phone I was like "whoa, it's faster than a computer I used to have five years ago!" I don't use my "phone" only for calling. Most of the time I use it to  browse internet when on the road, either connected to laptop or on the phone itself (I have agsforums running all the day, really :), use e-mail, ICQ, voice-recorder, I also snap a picture from time to time or shoot a short video, sometimes I read e-books or make a memo in calendar. Or I can count what is the level of alcohol in my blood after having three beers and two shots of tequilla (yes, I really do have such a program installed on it :D)  And I play games too. And I'm sure many others do or would. And maybe there is somebody out there who would play adventure games. If you say

"Unfortunately, I think that these cro-magnon users make up the market that determines which type of games will get produced. I have a feeling that the fast-lane loud talking inconsiderate jerk doesn't have the mental capacity for an adventure game."

I think it's pretty obvious that action games will always dominate any platform. But as more than 90% of people have cellphone I don't think all are jerks with no mental capacity for adventure games. We're not talking mainstream of future mobile games but minority stuff. It won't be realistic to think that adventures could make it big on any platform. But I was wondering if there is SOME chance to see an adventure on this platform that will be recognised somehow.

Rant, rant, rant. ; :D

jaz

juncmodule

Yea, I agree with pretty much everything you said.

Except I think that the cellphone, smartphone even, still has some evolving to do. I do believe it is on the verge of being perfect.

Perhaps you are right and it is already there. Is there a smartphone with Windows CE on it yet? I guess I may be talking out of my ass. Just how much compatibility is there between the PC and smartphones? Can you HotSync and synchronize them the same as PDA's? Basically a Windows CE smartphone, with PC connectivity, no less than a 320x200 res(backlit), and at least a 16 hour battery would achieve what I am talking about. If that is on the market in a small (as possible) form. I would strongly consider joining the cellphone toting masses. ;D

later,
-junc

jaz

junc, of course these things are not perfect and they will never be. There will always be some feature you lack. But it's the same with computers, there will never be a perfect computer. It's an evolution. If people would wait for perfect gaming computer to come, we would never have had games like Monkey Island or Doom because we would think that the machines are just not good enough. To make a good game is not a matter of device but a matter of creativity. What I was saing is that cellphones as they are now are a solid gaming platform already and they will no doubt improve.

As for your question, there are devices that run on Windows. It's not exactly Win CE but a "clone" named Windows Smartphone. But there is also an OS called Symbian which IMO is even better.  You can of course synchronize these phones with your PC via cable, infrared or Bluetooth. As for battery life, these have generally about a week of standby time/up to 4 hrs talk or work time. It's not perfect but four hours are close to enough

here are some interesting ones:

http://www.sonyericsson.com/p900/main.aspx?regionCode=uk (Sonny Ericsson P900)

http://www.microsoft.com/windowsmobile/devices/devicesdisplay.aspx?module=deviceDisplay;Smartphone;americas;75    (Samsung i600)

http://www.forum.nokia.com/main/1,6566,015_291,00.html  (Nokia 6600)

jaz

EDIT: you will need to copy/paste the last link

After

Once we can fit quality voice recognition into such a device, MMRPG worlds will take off.
Static adventures will be like fiction for a while, but will ultimately become a kind of email within communities of particular tastes.
There will be a veritable ocean of game-mediated communication going on, and even RPGs will be a quaintly world-like minority amongst much richer, but inhuman systems.

Just a vision. I'm not qualified to verify it.

Who cares what the device is called or what it was originally made for. It has capabilities, and society will use them as it sees fit. Its capabilities will be distorted by use (ie. demand) anyway.

juncmodule

Quotejunc, of course these things are not perfect and they will never be.

I think you failed to understand that my list of features was my only requirement for it being "perfect" to me.

It also appears that I am a fool. I followed the first link you provided. The Sony Ericsson P900 has everything I was talking about (except windows hotsync, but that is hardly a technology issue). Claims to have 16 hours of talk time and 20 days of standby time. That was the one major bump in the road I thought.

Based on the technology in that ad, give it about one or two more years, when the price comes down (how old is the P900?), I would say that SmartPhone's could become a very popular gaming platform to program for.

The key thing is that while you are right about cell phones being used by everybody, the ones with the cameras, long lasting batteries, nice displays, etc, are all still really expensive (I couldn't find an exact on the P900, but I did see some price around $800) I know most of the nice ones are at least $200. Most people get the free cell phone you get when you sign a contract.

However, the phones they are giving away for free are the ones you had to pay hundreds of dollars for only a few years ago. So, once these new ones go down in price, then you will have the market saturation that will make it an amazing platform.

As far as it being a solid gaming platform right now. I still kind of disagree. I personally know at least 50 people with a 500MHZ+ Windows running machine. I know about 3 people with cell phones that have color displays. A solid gaming platform is made not by the technology itself, but by the number of users. The Atari Jaguar was an amazing system when it came out. It's just that nobody bought it, it was expensive, and as a result, nobody developed for it and it died(Just an example, perhaps a bad one, but I'm sure you get the idea.)

I still hold to my argument that it's just not ready yet. You have proven me wrong on the technology department ;D. I smell a SmartPhone in my future.

:P,
-junc

jaz

yeah, you 're right junc. These top of the line ones cost a pretty penny. I bought mine for about $500 and when it first came out it was some $800. But there is a considerable group of smartphone users already. You may also see things from American point of view. Most people in the USA don't buy a device but a wireless plan and they don't much care about what phone they get. Also market is not that saturated and even though big players like Verizon or Cingular offer interesting services, most people just don't give a shit as long as they can talk, talk, talk. In Europe, however, carriers don't have much space for growth providing voice services only. So they have already turned their attention to different types of services including data and also games. There already are hundreds of games available and easilly accessible. It's easy as pie to get one. Yesterday I was on my way to subway and I was just browsing phone-related webpage. There was an article saying that an interesting strategy game Townsmen is out and ready to download. It looked nice and so I have just logged on to carrier's  page and chose download. It cost me about three dollars they will chalk up on my monthly bill (it was an expensive one ;D) I was all set halfway down the escalators and I was already playing in train.

And there are many pople like me. If you say that smartphones are not common right now you are partly right but there are already millions of these devices sold.

Some figures from first quarter of this year (remember that these are almost one year old):
http://www.cellular.co.za/news_2003/1-_2003_phone_sales_figures.htm

Also according to IDC company study, market share of cameraphones (i.e. smartphones) in western Europe was 15% in third quarter which represent 27% growth compared to Q 2 2003.  That represents some 3.7 million units sold in three months in western Europe ONLY. So I don't think Jaguar Syndrome is likely to happen.

Maybe we got a little off-topic but it's interesting...

Hollister Man not log

I LOVE my Tungsten T, despite the fact that the heap is too small to play SCUMMVM games on.  I get Lemmings (as close to adventrue as you can get), Hexxagon, several RPGs, and Lode Runner.  I just wish I could get KQ6 to play on it.  :)  (I SO wish I hadn't given that to my buddy.....)

Meowster

Well, speaking as somebody who does a lot of travelling, I think I would love the idea of games like this on your mobile. It's not like you even have to think before you bring your phone with you, so it's going to be pretty handy if you're bored. A game like the old Sierra ones (Although I don't actually think they'd be the best choice) would be great fun. Even games like Pokémon on your mobile would be fun.

Hell, I'm all for it!

Just as long as they don't start packaging them as "Hand Held Portable Game Devices that are also PHONES!!!". They would be useful because they are on your phone, not because your phone is on a gaming device.


buddha

Sorry for bringing up this 'old' thread but I'd like to add a little something to this, which I haven't seen mentioned yet.  Smartphones running a variant of Windows CE (called Smartphone2002/2003) have been around for already quite a while. And PocketSCUMM (a 'brother' of scummVM) has a build for Windows Smartphones2002.  What does this mean? Well that it is already possible to play games much more 'advanced' than the early sierra games on these phones. With PocketSCUMM you can play sam'n max, monkey1, dott, foa, loom etc.

Do a google on some of these keywords for some more info on some of these smartphones:
tanager, qtek, mpx200, spv,

As for battery duration I'd say its about one day of usage (this will give you several hours of gameplay (which for most people is enough if you throw your phone in the charger each day)

Personally In have a pocketpc (windows CE based aswell), I commute 4hrs each day and regularly play a game on it, using PocketSCUMM among others. Right now I'm replaying DOTT with full speech and music(!) on my Pocketpc while commuting. I think adventures lend themselves pretty well for 'short term' playing aswell since you can play for 15/20mins and save your game and pickup where you left the next time you load up your game. In my eyes portable adventuring is not the future but the present  ;)

As a sidenote: I agree that adventuregames will not become mainstream for playing on mobile devices. Most people just want tetris (which I have aswell mouhahaha ) ;D
And yes those phones are expensive (300-700$) but hey it all just depends on how badly you want it. And for the budget guy, you can already pickup a second hand pocketpc for about a 100/150bucks which will give you mobile adventuring and a bigger screen.

Sidenote 2: PocketSCUMM is a port of ScummVM for pocketpc and windows smartphone. Besides the LucasFilm/LucasArts classics, it currently also allows you to play BASS, Simon1 and 2.


Estaog

Think about the kittens man!

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