How can i find the Larry games?

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

Heh. Talk about sticking my foot in my mouth - twice in a row.

One more thing no one's mentioned yet but which should be if DeathWish is that much a newcomer to Larry - don't waste time looking for Larry 4, and don't waste time getting Larry 8. Larry 4 was never made, and Larry 8 seems to be, by general consensus, not worth having (at least not by LSL standards) (not that I've played it myself, note).

[kjetting]

Abandoned wares, most of the time, is just an alternative name for warez, it just makes the people who download them feel better. That a company didn't charge someone for downloading its commercial products doesn't mean it's legal (it's just probably they don't want to care anymore).

Only products that are officially announced abandoned (or had past its life period due to some laws in your place, or the owner of the rights no longer exists) can be considered really free and legal to download.

Abandonware is not the same thing as warez. I think it's natural to download a game if it's the only way to possibly get it. Abandonware is supposed to be a term for software that is no longer availiable through purchase. I have too noticed that some warez sites have begun using the term "abandonware" along with "warez" to get more search engine hits, but that's the internet for you. Serious abandonware sites like the underdogs take down their downloads as soon as a game is back in production since there's no more need for it, and I think they have a great policy behind what they do as well. The underdogs don't have any of the Larry games, though.

[DeathWish]

And did you divise this rationale while riding a magical unicorn headed for the lost city of Atlantis?

Ouch!!

Thanks and I was just following some rumours from school about an AGS porn game and I thought it might have been the Larry games. I only thought this because i saw a game in the shops called Leisure Suit Larry. It was an 18 and it had uncensored on it.

[DGunpluggered]

Abandonware is not the same thing as warez. I think it's natural to download a game if it's the only way to possibly get it.

http://www.insidemacgames.com/news/story.php?ArticleID=1668

And just to make things totally, absolutely, 100% clear...

ABANDONWARE IS JUST AS ILLEGAL AS WAREZ, YOU THIEVING BASTARDS! STOP RATIONALISING YOUR PETTY CRIMES!

People like you are the reason why I once found a destitute Ron Gilbert smacked-out of his mind in a back-alley in Soho as he offered me a blowjob for a dollar.

[Squinky]

But.....It's still okay to download movies and music for free of the internet right?....

[Tom Henrik]

Hi there.


1. Abandonware IS illegal, we have never said that it was legal.

Then why on earth are we distributing these games?
To understand why there is a lot of abandonware sites out there, you need to understand this fact; All games are still protected by their copy-rights, no matter if the game in question is Alley Cat or Doom 3! The difference is that Alley Cat is no longer sold, or supported in any way. By placing that game available for download we are not harming anyone - and thus the law looks through it.
(It is kinda like listening to a CD-player in public, or borrow a friend a CD or a movie. Both are illegal in terms of copy-rights. Listening to a CD in public (without head-phones) is considered public broadcasting - something only radios are permitted to do. And borrowing something to a friend is distribution - if your friends want to see a movie or listen to a record or play a game, he MUST (according to the laws) BUY IT!)
The above scenarios are both illegal by law, but are not punished as no-one are hurt. The same goes for abandonware. In fact it is worse to borrow out CD's and such, than it is to give out abandonware. This is because the CD's are still sold, so you are actually harming sales. ESPECIALLY since I know that a lot of this borrowed stuff gets copied by the borrower, so that he or she gets a completely new CD without paying for it. This harms the industry.

But you still haven't answered my question... Why are you doing it when it is illegal?
We do it because we love these old games, and because we don't want to see them disappear for good. There is nothing more to it. None of us gets paid for this. The little income we get from ad-clicks are used to pay the server costs. You can in a way say that we are a museum dedicated to preserve artifacts from a forgotten past, because in many aspects that is exactly what we do.
When all this is said, we have an obligation towards the producers and copyright-holders; if anyone involved in the game-making tells us to remove the game - we will. This has happened in the past, and it will happen in the future as well. We have nothing but respect for these people.
One of the main reasons why abandonware sites gets shut down, is because the people involved refuse to remove games on the request of the producers.
The next scenario may seem a bit far-fetched, but it portraits what happens in the above statement; You are about to borrow your Robbie Williams CD to your best friend, when suddenly Robbie himself comes round the corner. He sees that you are distributing one of his CD's. If he don't care and walks by, then everything is fine. If he tells you not to give out his CD, then you MUST comply to his wish. He is the copyright-holder, and he has the power to take you to the court if you don't respect his wishes.

2. There are actually sites out there with a special permit to offer Sierra's games for download.

One of these is www.spacequest.net. Franz have (believe it or not) WRITTEN permission to offer all Space Quest games and manuals for free download. When it comes to the games on our site; Larry, Space Quest, Kings Quest and Police Quest was placed up by me, and I made sure that I got permission to do this before I added them. (The only thing I did wrong at the time, was that I took the manuals from the above mentioned site and placed them on our site. Franz pointed this out to us, and we removed all the Space Quest manuals at once. Afterwards I wrote to him explaining my error, and we agreed to link to eachother's sites).

3. Abandonware is just as illegal as warez, correct. However warez harms the gaming industry, whereas abandonware don't harm anyone.

There are sites that offer Doom 3 for free download. For every copy that is downloaded, a copy in the store remains unsold. To compensate for this loss of income, the producers have to increase the price of their product. The only thing warez accomplishes is creating absurd prices for games - while at the same time turn game-companies into angry beasts. These companies then goes out and tries to kill the warez sites, but have a hard time with it. (Warez sites are well protected, and they are not easy to find as they usually don't offer many titles. Abandonware sites are VERY easy to find, since they are not trying to hide and offer several hundred games for download). Very often these companies blows out their steam over abandonware sites...


I hope this answered some, if not all, of your questions.
Abandonware IS illegal.
Warez IS illegal.

But there is still a great line dividing the two.

Happy new year!
-Tom Henrik

[kjetting]

Thanks. That's just about what I was trying to say. I'd also like to point out that neither I nor anyone else have described abandonare as "legal".

[Snarky]

(It is kinda like listening to a CD-player in public, or borrow a friend a CD or a movie. Both are illegal in terms of copy-rights. Listening to a CD in public (without head-phones) is considered public broadcasting - something only radios are permitted to do. And borrowing something to a friend is distribution - if your friends want to see a movie or listen to a record or play a game, he MUST (according to the laws) BUY IT!)

I'm not entirely surprised to see that your beliefs about copyright law are completely inaccurate.

Loaning a CD to a friend is not illegal. As long as it's not being copied, the CD can be transfered around as many times as you like. How do you think libraries can have a CD section?

You say that abandonware is not hurting anyone. However, a company might have good business reasons for not allowing an old game of theirs to be distributed. For instance, they might want to release a version on (say) a mobile phone in the future, and therefore not want people to have played it for a long time. Or they might reason that it competes with other games they're selling. Or they might believe that it hurts their brand name (because of its nature or its quality). Or they might feel that allowing people to get one game for free makes us expect to get all games for free, and therefore encourages warez. Or they might be planning a compilation. Or have a licensing deal in the works that might be jeopardized if they're perceived to not be able to control their properties.

There are a hundred ways in which abandonware can hurt the copyright owners. Pretending anything else is lying to yourself.

[Secret Fawful]

Thank you, Tom Henrik. 
If the company does such a thing, snarky, the game will be removed at once.-

[DGMacphee]

Tom, although your intentions of preserving old software is honourable, I still find that many people use the term abandonware to justify doing something that is technically illegal. Why justify it? Why pussy-foot around? A certain piece of software not supported anymore? Big whoop! Downloading it is still illegal. And no amount of rationalisation (from "It's not supported" to "It's not harming anyone") doesn't change that. I think people should grow some balls and say, "Hey, we're practically stealing!" instead of hiding behind words like 'abandonware'.

Just my two and a half cents.

[Secret Fawful]

Well, take your lousy cents.

[DGMacphee]

Your mother costs two and half cents! 

[Babar]

hahaha...I wonder what would happen if they actually put up a message like that in abandonware sites. Just before someone could click to download, they would have to agree to terms that said:

I think people should grow some balls and say, "Hey, we're practically stealing!" instead of hiding behind words like 'abandonware'.

[Snarky]

If the company does such a thing, snarky, the game will be removed at once.-

Dude, Vivendi isn't going to come out and say "We don't want people to distribute the old Larry games because it shows off how bad the new one is". However, if that's the case then you are hurting the copyright holders.

Yeah, in most cases the companies probably don't care. However, abandonware is not in general a victimless crime.

I still download old games that I can't buy. If the company won't sell it to me, I frankly don't care if I'm hurting their business strategy a tiny bit. But I know that it's not legal, and I don't pretend that it should be.

[Secret Fawful]

The owner and admins of the site occasionally check on the ABWness of the games. But anyway. Enough chat about this.

[Sektor 13]

I must say, i think abondonware is good idea, those old games cannot be bought anywere and as so many of them are good i think they should be avalible for anyone who wants it,.. i support that kind of site

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

Support it as you like... as long as you know it's illegal. : Me, I also like abandonware sites, but I've stopped kidding myself. I'm doing something illegal whenever I download something "abandonware". Ethically it's probably right, because of yadda-yadda-yadda-already-discussed, but it's legally wrong.

[Gregjazz]

I buy games because I want to support the people who create those games. Besides, then you get the box, the manual, and all that cool tangible stuff.

Look up the game on google, and I guarantee you sooner or later you'll find a download link, be it warez or abandonware.

Besides, those really old games can be bought for only a matter of a few dollars these days.

[Blackthorne]

Smoking pot is totally fun, and it doesn't hurt anybody but me.  And maybe the guy who works at McDonalds when I visit.  Therefore, not illegal.  I'm not a drug-user.  I only smoke pot.

Bt

[THIS MESSAGE WAS BROUGH TO YOU BY NORML.  This is in no way an endoresment of Marijuana in any concievable manner]

[MillsJROSS]

Besides, those really old games can be bought for only a matter of a few dollars these days.

For the most part, unless you're buying these old games from the company itself, then those few dollars don't really support the company who produced them. That is, if it's really abandware.

You could argue that you're supporting the electronic boutique's and whatnot, but those guys make enough money as it is.

I'm all for abandware, illegal or otherwise!

-MillsJROSS