Occultas Veritas - Background C&C

[Darth Mandarb]

We lost a few background artists for our game ... so I decided to take on the role myself.

I wanted to try a style I hadn't yet tried (some of you may remember the images I posted for the "Release Something" thing awhile back ...)

Anyway ... since I'm new to this style I wanted to get some feedback on it:


- this'll be a scrolling background

Thoughts?  Improvements?  Problems?

My biggest concern is the lighting ... Andail?  Loom?

Much thanks ...

[Evil]

The lighting looks good IMO, but the lighting on the catwalk seems awkward.

The planks seem to sit right on the edge of the concrete, maybe lengthen them. Also the right board seems to sit higher on the area where the character is.

The walk ways on the far right and left of the image (behind the bars) look too wide or too low. Something about them seems out of place.

The dirt on the closest walkway is out of place. The far walkway is very nice, but the closest has a weird wispy look.

All around the style is great. You've always got a great sence when it comes to mixing styles.

[Miez]

The lighting and use of colour is very good, nicely atmospheric. The only thing that sort of bugs me are the fracture lines in the stones. They seem a bit out of place...
Great BG for - what I expect - is going to be a great game...

[loominous]

Would probably go for something like this:



Since there only seem to be one lightsource in a pretty large enviroment, most would be very dark. The light would've probably been a dull fluorescent lamp (which has a green tint) but a warm tungsten would provide more color contrast so that would've been my choice. A fluoroscent light would probably serve better if it's supposed to be a more scary looking enviroment though.

I like the wall textures and enviroment was interesting, but the lighting struck me as quite boring as you mentioned.

Edit: The very messy photoshop file

Edit II: Updated the files. Some things that struck me once I had posted.

[InCreator]

I totally like the overall feeling (detail, mmm!), but one thing seems not right to me:

The bricks on wall. It feels very much like there's a gray wall with vertical and horizontal lines painted on it.

I recommend trying to make brick-lines much darker. And maybe shade each brick individually to make overall look more believeable.

The problem (I rely on original, not edited bg) is strong near door, but bricks near the archways feel already quite close to correct.

Also, the reflection of light on water is a good idea: Try to make something similar as Loominous did.

Covering such a lovely and detailed bg with darkness (as Loominous suggested) would be realistic, but sounds like a waste of hard work to me. Maybe just slight adjustments or more lights?

[LilBlueSmurf]

I agree with the bricks needings a bit of detail.  The boards, I think, could be fixed (made longer a bit as suggested) and darkened a little bit, they just look more cartoony than the rest of the room.  I don't think the whole picture needs darkened.  Unless it is a specific "dark room" type of scene, it is almost always asumed in old adventure games that there is at least some ambient light, plus the character would pop out too much I think.  The last thing I would suggest is messing with the sewage or water or whatever it is, a bit.  The reflection is too clear and looks almost like you are seeing into the water, or that it is just really clean water that happens to be tinted green, and either as objects or on the bg I would suggests putting some small junk in there too, it just looks way too clean to me.

[Darth Mandarb]

... but the lighting on the catwalk seems awkward.

Yes I see what you mean ... I have attempted to correct this in the latest update.

The lighting and use of colour is very good, nicely atmospheric. The only thing that sort of bugs me are the fracture lines in the stones. They seem a bit out of place...
Great BG for - what I expect - is going to be a great game...

Farlander said the same thing about the cracks ... It was funny because right before I posted it I made them darker 'cause I thought they looked too light!  I have updated them in the latest edit.

And thanks for the praise, coming from you it's an extreme complement!  Your style was the major influence for when I started in on this new style!

I like the wall textures and enviroment was interesting, but the lighting struck me as quite boring as you mentioned.

As always, your ability with light just amazes me!  Thanks much for the edit!!  I took into account some of what you did, but I didn't want to darken and, as InCreator mentions, lose the texture/detail of the other areas so I decided to give it a "hollywood" style darkness ... IE, turn the stuff that is supposed to be in the dark a shade of blue!

Also, as much as I loved the way you altered the water, I don't want the slime to be steaming or reflective ... I want it to be a thick goo of sludge ... I don't thnk I've quite achieved it yet ... but I'm still working on it!

The bricks on wall. It feels very much like there's a gray wall with vertical and horizontal lines painted on it.

Covering such a lovely and detailed bg with darkness (as Loominous suggested) would be realistic, but sounds like a waste of hard work to me. Maybe just slight adjustments or more lights?

Thanks for the bit about the bricks!  I had been looking at this piece for so long that things like that tend to slip right by me ... I have made them (to my eyes) look much better in the edit!

Lighting issue addressed above!

... and either as objects or on the bg I would suggests putting some small junk in there too, it just looks way too clean to me.

You obviously haven't seen much of my other work!!  Trust me, I will fill this sucker with details   (This is still a WiP)  but thanks for the tip either way.

So here is my latest edit with much thanks to the wonderful CL!


- I love the way the blue contrasts with the warm light of the lamp
- I totally love the new brick lines (thanks for the tip InC!)

Better?  Worse?  Hit me with some honesty!

[Vince Twelve]

My one crit... and this is completely nit-picking a fantastic image... the cracks on the walls and floors look a little to evenly spread out (i.e. one crack on every sidewalk tile).  It's just an example of the human mind attempting to mimic random behavior, but instead producing a very regular pattern.

[InCreator]

Better, definetly better.
And... that's about all I could crit/suggest here.

To fake even a bit more detail, you could try adding a tiny bit of noise to the stone floor...

Also, the wooden boards in the center are most undetailed and somewhat boring part of the bg. If you like - and are able to use my idea so it'll look good, you could also try to lighten edges of boards, something like this:



That's one of my 10000 ways to fake detail (I should write a book!) - it makes wooden and metal objects look better on some occassions... but only some.

[Evil]

The new one looks great. The warmness is almost too much from the light. I'd make it more of a yellow/green color then an orange. The sludge would be affected by this light aswell. It'd be more blue and the highlighted areas would be orangish. Catwalk looks better, as does the dirt on the closest path. The purple tone made it much more appealing.

[Tiki]

Sloppy paintover

Original:

Changes:


Won't stand up to close scrutiny; was made hastily, sorry.

Just some quick notes, it's getting fairly late here, I want to go to bed.

- I liked the blue contrast too, but it was a little too blue, so I made it match the sludge more, almost as if it were glowing.
- Darkened some areas around the edges up
- Did a quick attempt at some 'thicker' water. also darkened the ends of the water a bit.
- Pretty minor door changes

I've never been very skilled at paintovers, but hope this'll help some.

[chapter11studios]

Darth, this is a fantastic screen. I love it. Where can I learn more about your game?

[Andail]

I think your latest version is as good as it can be, truthfully. The light is everything but realistic, but it would serve absolutely no purpose pursuing such realism (for instance, dark areas would only be bluish if it was outside, and the surfaces would pick up colours from the sky. Also, the light is far too defined, for being just an ordinary lamp.)
Over all, an excellent job!

[loominous]

Relief to see most evil neutral colors gone.

Couple of other things I'd change:



I) Surfaces

One thing that has remained from the original pic is the flat surfaces. These work well in isometric styles but once you start going for more painterly like qualities they'll add a sterile unconvincing look.

It boils down to gradients really, which if used in one manner can nauseate beyond belief, but in another emulate real-world conditions making the enviroment seem believeable and thus hopefully increase the immersion.

In the edit I've tried maintaining the lightlevel of the surfaces while adding gradients, meaning I've made parts brighter and some darker.

In the center wall, I've made the bottom lighter and also made the color more neutral. This is due to the light bouncing off the floor up on the wall. The color changes because the colors blend, the warm light blending with the cool surrounding creating a sort of grey (opposing colors blended creates grey). Same goes for the walkway closest to the camera where I darkened the edges and brightered the center.

Darkened edges will lead the eye towards the center and usually adds some nice mood and is a common "trick".

Added a gradient on the lit up part of the center wall and ground as well.

II) Colors

The biggest problem as I see it is that the blue tint of the center wall isn't present elsewhere, making it seem like a blue wall, not a grey one. To remedy this, simply make sure to tint all other shadow areas similarly. The water/goo in particular has maintained it's hue too well.

Another problem that sticks out is the edges of the lit up parts on the wall, which are very saturated. As I mentioned, opposite colors neutralizes eachother, so the saturation should be low or it'll look fake.

I suppose you probably ignored the character when doing all this, but in order to get her to blend in she'll need to adopt the same hue as the light in which she is standing. The shading is also too "isometric" like to work imo, and I would go with simple cell shading.

III) Misc

The wooden boards had a black outline which stood out.

The lit up part of the wall had an inversed gradient, where it got brighter further down instead of closer to the source.

Edit:

Covering such a lovely and detailed bg with darkness (as Loominous suggested) would be realistic, but sounds like a waste of hard work to me.

Don't agree. As Iain McCaig puts it, you must be ready to kill your babies; if it's not right it should go. Now, whether it's right is up to the taste of mr Mandarb, but keeping things just because you've spent time on them will just hurt the image.

[Cluey]

Latest edit looks great Darth, like something straight outta Broken Sword.

Good job!

[aussie]

Darth,

Whatever you end up doing, I just have to say I love your style.

It's so bloody awesome.

[Igor]

Great background Darth! It looks great as it is.. but Loominous's latest edit is spot on! Superb.. I'd go with it, as it makes a whole lot of difference...

[Darth Mandarb]

I love the Critics Lounge! 

I thought the image looked pretty good when I first posted it ... but I'm so much happier with where it's headed ...

still a wip:

- I'm much happier with the 'water' part now ... looks much more 'sludge-ish'
- with the light color of the background around the image some of the details are lost, against an all black background they jump off much better!

Don't agree. As Iain McCaig puts it, you must be ready to kill your babies; if it's not right it should go. Now, whether it's right is up to the taste of mr Mandarb, but keeping things just because you've spent time on them will just hurt the image.

There's actually quite a bit of detailing on the back walls of the tunnels, but I wanted to make it dark and dirty so that detail is lost in the interest of the image.  However ... I wanted to keep most of the 'walkable' areas dark, yet visible.

loominous - I went and added some gradients ... man, you learn something new everyday.  I will also be making another version of her character to fit better into the changing light conditions in the sewers.  Much thanks for your help!

Josh - I sent you a PM with lots of juicy details!

Andail, Cluey, aussie, and Igor - Thanks for the kind words and advice!

Tiki - thanks for the paint over ... with loominous' and yours I found a color I rather like

InC - I tried a bit of your advice on the boards ... a little more subtle though.

Evil -  I lost the purple tone, but added some more noise/dirt/etc to the path (and it's darker now)

[Haddas]

On a closer inspection of this seemingly perfect gloomy image I made a horrifying gut-wrenching discovery. if you squint you can see Jimmy Hoffa in the brick wall... just kidding. Actually I'm more interested in the rusty bars. they look very shiny and new to be that rusty. They could be brand new, but also copper. However, copper tends to turn greenish when it corrodes. Right now the neatness and shinyness of the bars is what disturbs me the most, and one of the few things too. the last crit I have is on the foreground wheel. It looks weird. They don't necessarily have to be all black either. maybe the lighting might make them a little coloured at the edges? Just my 4,30â,¬

[Darth Mandarb]

... if you squint you can see Jimmy Hoffa in the brick wall... just kidding.

You found the subliminal image!! 

Actually I'm more interested in the rusty bars. they look very shiny and new to be that rusty.

I'll see if I can dull them down a bit ... I was going for old iron bars that had completely rusted over.  These typically tend to be the burnt umber color with splotches of oranges and browns.  I wanted to give them some dimension too though which is probably what causes the shiny effect.

the last crit I have is on the foreground wheel. It looks weird. They don't necessarily have to be all black either. maybe the lighting might make them a little coloured at the edges?

I'm actually considering removing the foreground elements entirely.  In my first post, the contrast between fore and back grounds made them stand out.  Now they're much harder to make out and I don't know that they're necessary any more.