(sort of) multiplayer mystery-murder-party gameplay adapted to point&click?

[Monsieur OUXX]

I'd like to make a game based on the following gameplay elements :

1. Two opponents

2. The goal of each is either to be the first one to solve a mystery, or to reveal the secret identity of the other (with any possible variations inbetween: arrest the other one, kill him, etc.)

3. NOT real time (players play "turn by turn" -- either hot seat or online)

4. Despite (2.), each player must feel like the other one is plotting WHILE they're playing
(like, your actions during the current turn will have an impact on the opponent's next turn, and vice versa -- a bit like the "fake real-time turn-by-turn" of the old wargame M.A.X.). Also see (9.) about that simulated feeling of "real-time". The game must really be a competition, a race.

5. I don't want the whole game to be entirely some sort of "board game", consisting only of stats, a map, abstract logos, and action buttons. There should be some traditional point&click phases. Preferably when the player goes to a specific location on the map (think "gabriel Knight" or "Police Quest"). Yet, it costs some action points to go somewhere and question witnesses.
(for example I'd like my game to possibly incorporate some gameplay elements of the board game "Scotland Yard", but I don't want the whole game to take place on an abstract map of the city -- I want some point&click in it!)

6. the point&click phases should consist in searching for "clues" in a location on the map. Depending on some pre-defined elements (e.g. "how quick you are", or "did you go search in the right place", etc.) , it will give you some "points" (e.g. "action points", or whatever you want to call them) to give you bonuses during next round (e.g. "you can visit one more location this round", etc.).

7. The point&click phases will be based on pre-defined backgrounds (let's say: "the place where the crime took place") but, unlike the backgrounds, the clues should be randomly generated, so that the storyline (or at least the sequence of actions to win) changes every time. For example, provided the clues rely on witnesses questionning, then the dialogs should be dynamically generated.

8. The most important requirement (and the one that would, in my opinion, make this game very original): The places are populated with NPCs that move around. ...BUT... one of those NPCs is actually your opponent! and you don't know it! During your turn he can obviously not control his avatar (since YOU are playing, and it's not real time), but you can potentially question the NPC to spot your opponent in disguise. That's when you slow him down/arrest him/kill him/etc. It will have an impact on his next turn.

9. (optional) Your opponent might even start his next turn by a (dynamcally generated) cutscene re-enacting what happened and how he got screwed -- that way he'd have the feeling it really happened during his turn and it would make the game experience more immersive.

Oh, and it might not ring any bell for most, but the background would actually be a little something called "Arsène Lupin vs. Sherlock Holmes".  8)



======================

Anybody has suggestions? It's still very blurry for me, but I want to avoid the game being boring or repetitive, and I really want it to make the player paranoid: "Am I talking to some stupid NPC, or am I talking to my opponent?" -- "Darn! the compromising letters I was looking for were supposed to be in that safe but my opponent stole them first and left a humiliating note for me!".

[LRH]

I think perhaps the most difficult thing to do here is ensure that this world (as you said) doesn't become too repetitive. It's a great concept and sounds like a hell of a lot of fun, but wouldn't you need to either program a "randomizer" that comes up with new mysteries each time or constantly release new chapters? After all, after you play through a certain mystery once, it seems like it would be really easy to play through it again.

[Snarky]

You're not allowed to work on anything else until you finish this, damn you! 

[Anian]

When you mentioned hot seat, I remembered Heroes of M&M...so why not, instead of random mystery generated, make a scenario builder/editor so people can add missions, but it's always hard to make it if any of the say 2 persons played a mission or a scenario (but for example Portal2 has that problem, where one person might have solved the puzzle already)...that's why a coop game where some details do change with each play (like a descripition of the wound, name in the wallet, realtionship between characters etc.)...I am rambling kind of on, sorry.
But I might suggest (which is how Cluedo and Risk solved their trouble of repetition) with card drawing (or a variation of it) where you have some advantages (or information) over other players, then add on that character traits (like a hot woman gets men more talkative, but a male character starts of with one card more). And cards would give info like a wrong phone call where you find out a flight has been booked etc.

Again this is a problem with mysteries (compared to action games) where there is a final goal that might stay similar, but in action games there's like a battle or something that keeps the outcome random.
Also famous detectives...I still like the random characters where personality is a bit more open and where it's not so easy to step on toes of character traits nazies.

Either that or one player is a detective that has to find out who the culprit is and the other commits a crime and stays (let's say it's in a mansion), but can comunicate with other NPCs and with the other player and try to confuse them...but there should be some gameplay where you can't tell which player is AI (like every npc changes rooms etc.), because there's only aversion where the other player commits the crime.

Didn't the game The Ship do that thing where everybody tries to kill somebody.

[Monsieur OUXX]

You're not allowed to work on anything else until you finish this, damn you! 

you're mistaken. there's something MUCH MORE urgent and that is way more of a preoccupation for me.
THE TILES FOR SCHATTEN REIZE. Ach.

[Monsieur OUXX]

instead of random mystery generated, make a scenario builder/editor so people can add missions

I've thought of that, but it brings everything to a new level: it would require to design a whole public  "syntax" for their definition (logic bricks, etc.). Way more hardcore than if you code a generator(that you're the only one to understand because it's so dirtily coded) and let it do most of the work internally.

it's always hard to make it if any of the say 2 persons played a mission or a scenario (...) you need some details to change with each play. But I might suggest (which is how Cluedo and Risk solved their trouble of repetition) with card drawing (or a variation of it).

I totally agree. But that's what I was pointing out in (5.) -- that turns it into a board game.
I don't know how to fit the point n click phases in, except by :
- inserting either pixel hunt (horrible!)
- using them only as a fancy, disgused interface only meant to access the "special cards" (choose what dialogs you'll activate, or read some clues like "the name on the business card")

action games there's like a battle or something that keeps the outcome random

actually that could be turned into a good concept: after a long and cerebral investigation (divided into chapters), with the tension going up, the climax could be the last chapter being an epic battle between the 2 players, with the form of an action game (random idea: a fight like in the Indiana Jones series -- that's only a random example). In the case of Arsene Lupin it could be a minigame like being totally surrounded by the police and attempting an epic escape.

Also famous detectives...I still like the random characters where personality is a bit more open and where it's not so easy to step on toes of character traits nazies.

That is an artistic choice. the 2 guys are extremely charismatic and can have totally different bonuses and goals to achieve.

Either that or one player is a detective that has to find out who the culprit is and the other commits a crime and stays (let's say it's in a mansion), but can comunicate with other NPCs and with the other player and try to confuse them...

That's pretty much the idea except they BOTH use intelligence to confuse both NPCs and opponents, and instead of a mansion (with rooms) it's a city (with fixed locations).

there should be some gameplay where you can't tell which player is AI (like every npc changes rooms etc.), because there's only aversion where the other player commits the crime.
Didn't the game The Ship do that thing where everybody tries to kill somebody.

yeah, but in the ship it's different : It's real time, and you hide yourself by trying to move around like an NPC. Here, you WOULD BE an NPC (when it's not your turn to play) and you'd appear to the opponent with a generic sprite (because technically you'd be wearing a costume so he can't recognize you). There could be an animation showing your generic sprite turning into YOUR very own sprite when you're discovered while being interrogated.