I haven't played MI in years and don't have a copy on me at the moment, but I was just curious as to how the insult swordfighting worked. I believe you started out with the Sword Master, and for every insult there was an appropriate comeback. And then when you fought the pirates, am I right in recalling that there were other insults they threw at you that required the comebacks from the Sword Master?
I was pondering just now about including a similar system in a game, but I just wanted to know exactly how the Monkey Island system worked. Can anybody help?
Sorry if it seems like a rather ambiguous question. Like was there a process in learning the correct responses? Or were they there from the start, when fighting the Sword Master?
If I remember correctly, you collected insults from the pirates, which you could the use on other pirates to learn the proper comebacks. You could use the Swordmaster's insults on the other pirates but would never get any correct comebacks this way. When fighting the Swordmaster, you used the comebacks learnt from the pirates, but in reply to different (Swordmaster only) insults.
Ah, I understand! That's a pretty clever system. I think I could make it work in a more modern setting for a game.
Now, how did you defeat the pirates/Sword Master? Did you keep insulting until the opponent used the correct comeback?
No, the correct comeback was one of the ones you learnt from the pirates. You had to work out which one it was yourself and use it.
It has been a while but I think the whole process goes like this....
After picking a fight with a Pirate, Guybrush always has first shot at insulting.
-If the pirate cannot respond, Guybrush takes the advantage and gets to pick the next insult (but doesn't learn anything).
-If the pirate gives the correct response, the advantage goes to him and he picks the next insult (but Guybrush learns the response and has a chance at hearing a new insult).
-Whoever gains the advantage three times in the match, wins.
The more insults you acquire, the more responses you're capable of hearing. When you've collected the (I think) bare minimum of responses, they tell you that you're good enough to fight the Swordmaster.
The Swordmaster always has the advantage as she always picks the insults, and her insults cannot be heard anywhere else. Guybrush has to choose one of his previously learned responses to fit the insult. Pick the right response enough times (no idea how many) and you win.
Going back to the pirates and using a Swordmaster insult on them is a guaranteed advantage. The pirates can't ever give a proper respose to them, so there's no way of using the pirates to figure out the correct response to a SM insult.
Not sure how clear that is. Hope it's helpful anyhow.
In short, you heard insults from other pirates, learning comebacks.
You then used those same comebacks on the Sword Masters' different insults (you had to figure out which comeback would still work which her insults).
how appropriate, you fight like a cow
iamus, that helped greatly. I think I know everything I need to know now. Thank you very much for that detailed run-down! ;D
Do you mind if I post it on the AGS Wiki, complete with spoiler warning? I think lots of people would find that information useful, perhaps for inspiration or just for a good read. :)
I seem to remember an umofficial patch for MSN Messenger that included an insultathon feature... Some of those insults were from Monkey Island. :)
- Meh
Huw
I don't think it was mentioned that Guybrush would start with his own useless insults, like the aforementioned "you fight like a cow" and also "I am rubber, you are glue" and "I'm shaking, I'm shaking!" which were also used by the enemies when they didn't know the right insult response.
(Sorry if that was already noted..)
Thanks, ManicMatt, and no that was not noted. Thanks. :)
Also, there's a thing that I've discovered that I'm not sure if anyone have figured it out. Before you reach Captain Smirk's gym, before you get past the troll you can try to insult the troll and he will reply: "I once knew I dog that was amrter than you" and tell Guybrush to stick that in his repotoire. Once you get trained by Captain Smirk, you'll get the insult from the beginning along with those that Smirk teaches you.
Did anyone beside me find this out too?
<me raises his hand>
Quote from: TerranRich on Tue 24/01/2006 15:54:59
Do you mind if I post it on the AGS Wiki, complete with spoiler warning? I think lots of people would find that information useful, perhaps for inspiration or just for a good read. :)
Don't mind at all. Go right ahead.
Quote from: ManicMatt on Tue 24/01/2006 17:09:51
I don't think it was mentioned that Guybrush would start with his own useless insults, like the aforementioned "you fight like a cow"..
That wasn't exactly useless. "You fight like a dairy farmer." "How appropriate, you fight like a cow."
Quote from: Spleen on Thu 26/01/2006 10:52:23
Quote from: ManicMatt on Tue 24/01/2006 17:09:51
I don't think it was mentioned that Guybrush would start with his own useless insults, like the aforementioned "you fight like a cow"..
That wasn't exactly useless.Ã, "You fight like a dairy farmer." "How appropriate, you fight like a cow."
I think ManicMatt confuses with the Insult Armwrestling from Escape From Monkey Island. For some reason whenever Mr. Cheese didn't know the comeback for an insult he could say "How appropiate, you fight like a cow" and Guybrush can also say it but it counts as a "fake" insult/comeback. However, later in the same game when you meet Ozzie Mandrill you can have an Insult Sword Fight with him and the comeback "How appropiate, you fight like a cow" is a "correct" comeback.
Rather confusing and stupid, isn't it?
I don't think so... it depends on whether the "dairy farmer" insult was said. If it wasn't, "fight like a cow" will never be acceptable, right? So if the "dairy farmer" insult wasn't in the arm wrestling and was in the ozzie mandril fight, it makes perfect sense.
Actually, Ozzie didn't use the Dairy Farmer insult. He said something else, of which "You fight like a cow" was an appropriate response.
Yeah for another useless in-depth trivia post!
"You fight like a dairy farmer. - How appropriate, you fight like a cow." was the first insult Guybrush learned from captain Smirk in SoMI. So it definately wasn't a useless one.
That, and...
"Soon you'll be wearing my sword like a Shish-Kabob"
"First you'd better stop waving it like a feather-duster"
If the swordfight is on the high seas, the comeback must rhyme with the insult.
"I will skewer you like an orange!"
Ah yes big brother, the sing-a-long section!
Um yes, I think I was confusing the useless "fight like a cow" with the arm wrestling bit. That and it's been years since I played monkey island 1. Years! :'(
this topic is turning into a "what's your fave monkey island insult?"
Mine would be the one about hemmorhoids flaring up again. Remind me people, how did that one go? "I could beat you sitting down!" Was that it?
QuoteMine would be the one about hemmorhoids flaring up again. Remind me people, how did that one go?
"I'm not going to take your insolence sitting down!"
"Your hemorrhoids are flaring up again, eh?"
I made my own insult fighting system a while back, but couldn't think of anything to do with it other than a self contained minigame. It even had a 'freestyle' mode, where you could invent your own insults and comebacks. Then I lost it in a crash. It was, I remember, reasonably simple to do if you were wanting to include it in something. The biggest problem I had was coming up with non-lame insults.
Quote from: big brother on Thu 26/01/2006 15:18:55
If the swordfight is on the high seas, the comeback must rhyme with the insult.
"I will skewer you like an orange!"
Almost, Big Bro, but it's actually: "I'll skewer you as a saw at a buffét!" (Or something like that, it's been awhile since I played MI3) "When I'm done with YOU, you'll be a boneless fillet".
The orange thing was Guybrush way to stop Haggis, Cutthroat Bill and Van Helgan's song since the word "orange" is a very difficult word to rhyme.
Speaking of the Insult matches, if it weren't because of CJ keep postponing the "Scrolling dialog" bit for AGS, we would already done something like that for AGS. I can't believe that CJ doesn't do that for the
current version. Ah man, if does keep doing this then we'll all have got adult great-grandkids when AGS does have that possibility.
For the favorite insult/comeback, I think it's: "Eun Gardé! Touché!" "Oh, that is so cliché!".
I believe we do have a scrolling dialog module that you can use this with.
Quote from: Mats Berglinn on Thu 26/01/2006 18:48:23
Almost, Big Bro, but it's actually: "I'll skewer you as a saw at a buffét!" (Or something like that, it's been awhile since I played MI3)
Hahaha... If only that insult made sense! Silly Lucasarts! They should have kept Ron Gilbert.
Quote
The orange thing was Guybrush way to stop Haggis, Cutthroat Bill and Van Helgan's song since the word "orange" is a very difficult word to rhyme.
Umm...yeah...That was my joke. Since there technically isn't a word in the English language that rhymes with "orange", an insult ending with that word would be unstoppable on the high seas. Hence,
"I will skewer you like an orange!"Guybrush just wasn't clever enough to figure that one out.
Quote from: big brother on Thu 26/01/2006 19:53:12
Quote from: Mats Berglinn on Thu 26/01/2006 18:48:23
Almost, Big Bro, but it's actually: "I'll skewer you as a saw at a buffét!" (Or something like that, it's been awhile since I played MI3)
Hahaha... If only that insult made sense! Silly Lucasarts! They should have kept Ron Gilbert.
Quote
The orange thing was Guybrush way to stop Haggis, Cutthroat Bill and Van Helgan's song since the word "orange" is a very difficult word to rhyme.
Umm...yeah...That was my joke. Since there technically isn't a word in the English language that rhymes with "orange", an insult ending with that word would be unstoppable on the high seas. Hence, "I will skewer you like an orange!"
Guybrush just wasn't clever enough to figure that one out.
Well, it made sense to me. Besides, if they kept Ron Gilbert then Guybrush and Elaine would never married and I'm totally against that kind of idea, that's one of the reasons why I like MI3 much better than MI2. Oh well!
By the way, who says that he didn't but I think it would be unfair for the other pirates to use such an insult so it could been a "forbidden" insult. It's not like Ozzie's insults in MI4, they're just insults that the Caribbish pirates doesn't know (maybe not yet).
Quote from: Mats Berglinn on Thu 26/01/2006 18:48:23
The orange thing was Guybrush way to stop Haggis, Cutthroat Bill and Van Helgan's song since the word "orange" is a very difficult word to rhyme.
Oh yeah, this song.
I was surprised, when I read about it for the first time, because they never sang when I played the game.
Do I have to do something special to maken them sing?
Or is it because I have the german version?
Maybe they removed it, because it was too hard to translate.
"I will strangle you 'till you're purple!"
No, it's "I'll skewer you like a sow at a buffet!" and "When I'm done with you, you'll be a boneless fillet!"
I haven't played in years but I memorized all the insults, basically... I spent hours insult swordfighting even after I won the master swordfighter.
Then there's...
"Oh yeah?!"
And "I am rubber, you are glue."
And "I'm shaking, I'm shaking." Those were the losing ones.
"I've met apes more polite than you!"
"I'm glad to see you've finally attended your family reunion."
"You fight like a dairy farmer!"
"How appropriate, you fight like a cow."
"This is the END for you, you gutter crawling curr."
"And I've got a little TIP for you, get the POINT?"
My favorite was probably the formaldehyde one, but I sorta forget how that one went, so many loooong wooords...
And wasn't there one like that, something about body odor or something?
There were lots of good ones... but I kinda forget them now.
Possibly Thomas, after all what is orange in your language, and does it rhyme with anything? If it does rhyme then I'm guessing they removed it because the joke is lost.
I'd also like to point out that I did hint at big brother about the pirates song, before anyone else, but I figured he didn't need recorrecting like Mats was keen to point out. Ã, :P
"Ah yes big brother, the sing-a-long section!" See? See?
Quote from: ManicMatt on Thu 26/01/2006 21:43:44
Possibly Thomas, after all what is orange in your language, and does it rhyme with anything? If it does rhyme then I'm guessing they removed it because the joke is lost.
"Orange" is spelled the same way in german, but it's pronounced in the french way.
Therefore, there are not too many words, wich would rhyme with it, if there is one at all.
A word that has definitively no rhyme is "Mensch", wich translates to "man"/"human".
But we disgressed into this german-topic again, and I'm afraid to piss some people off with it, so I'll stop now.
But if this song would be sang every time in the original version, they must really have removed it.
I once checked the code with ScummREVISITED, and discovered a variable, that is checked before the song comes, but I never found out, where this variable gets altered.
It indicates the language version, I guess.
Quote from: ManicMatt on Thu 26/01/2006 21:43:44
I'd also like to point out that I did hint at big brother about the pirates song, before anyone else, but I figured he didn't need recorrecting like Mats was keen to point out.Ã, :P
"Ah yes big brother, the sing-a-long section!" See? See?
Yeah, yeah, sorry!
Words and phrases that rhyme with orange: (0 results)
Sorry, no perfect rhymes were found.
Looked it up in the rhyming dictionary... and it's true. Nothing rhymes with orange.
Words and phrases that rhyme with mensch: (5 results)
1 syllable:
bensch, ensz, hensch, klensch, rensch
Orange, purple, silver, and month are the common English words that have NO rhyming complements. Unique words that also follow this rule are eighth, twelfth, ninth, fifth, etc., and well as others that I can't remember right now.
Terran Rich- OH YEAH?
"Once I get started you'll be down by the fifth(round)."
"Methinks you've been watching too much Revenge of the Sith."
Quote from: ProgZmax on Fri 27/01/2006 07:49:50
Terran Rich- OH YEAH?
"Once I get started you'll be down by the fifth(round)."
"Methinks you've been watching too much Revenge of the Sith."
Clever rhyme but the insult doesn't make any sense.
Quote from: Mats Berglinn on Fri 27/01/2006 08:35:16
Clever rhyme but the insult doesn't make any sense.
No, YOU are!
Quote from: Grapefruitologist on Thu 26/01/2006 22:36:35
Words and phrases that rhyme with mensch:Ã, Ã, (5 results)
1 syllable:
bensch, ensz, hensch, klensch, rensch
Err... what kind of rhyming dictionary was that?
Because none of these word are meaningful german terms!
Because Thomas knows absolutely all german terms!
Quote from: Grapefruitologist on Thu 26/01/2006 21:42:33
My favorite was probably the formaldehyde one, but I sorta forget how that one went, so many loooong wooords...
And wasn't there one like that, something about body odor or something?
There were lots of good ones... but I kinda forget them now.
Is it...
"Heaven preserve me! You look like something that's died!"
"The only way you'll be preserved is in formaldehyde!"
...or is it...
"I'll leave you devastated, mutilated, and perforated!"
"Your odour alone makes me aggravated, agitated, and infuriated!"
Quote from: vict0r on Fri 27/01/2006 18:24:19
Because Thomas knows absolutely all german terms!
Hey, I recognize a nonsense-term if I read it!
Or would you believe me, if I told you some gibberish would be a norwegian term?
Besides, it's a proven fact, that "Mensch" has no german rhyme!
Okay, okay i give up... Even tho my teacher make some goddamn strange words some times ;D