About the insult swordfighting in Monkey Island...

[TerranRich]

I haven't played MI in years and don't have a copy on me at the moment, but I was just curious as to how the insult swordfighting worked. I believe you started out with the Sword Master, and for every insult there was an appropriate comeback. And then when you fought the pirates, am I right in recalling that there were other insults they threw at you that required the comebacks from the Sword Master?

I was pondering just now about including a similar system in a game, but I just wanted to know exactly how the Monkey Island system worked. Can anybody help?

Sorry if it seems like a rather ambiguous question. Like was there a process in learning the correct responses? Or were they there from the start, when fighting the Sword Master?

[GarageGothic]

If I remember correctly, you collected insults from the pirates, which you could the use on other pirates to learn the proper comebacks. You could use the Swordmaster's insults on the other pirates but would never get any correct comebacks this way. When fighting the Swordmaster, you used the comebacks learnt from the pirates, but in reply to different (Swordmaster only) insults.

[TerranRich]

Ah, I understand! That's a pretty clever system. I think I could make it work in a more modern setting for a game.

Now, how did you defeat the pirates/Sword Master? Did you keep insulting until the opponent used the correct comeback?

[Mr Jake]

No, the correct comeback was one of the ones you learnt from the pirates. You had to work out which one it was yourself and use it.

[iamus]

It has been a while but I think the whole process goes like this....

After picking a fight with a Pirate, Guybrush always has first shot at insulting.
-If the pirate cannot respond, Guybrush takes the advantage and gets to pick the next insult (but doesn't learn anything).
-If the pirate gives the correct response, the advantage goes to him and he picks the next insult (but Guybrush learns the response and has a chance at hearing a new insult).
-Whoever gains the advantage three times in the match, wins.

The more insults you acquire, the more responses you're capable of hearing. When you've collected the (I think) bare minimum of responses, they tell you that you're good enough to fight the Swordmaster.

The Swordmaster always has the advantage as she always picks the insults, and her insults cannot be heard anywhere else. Guybrush has to choose one of his previously learned responses to fit the insult. Pick the right response enough times (no idea how many) and you win.

Going back to the pirates and using a Swordmaster insult on them is a guaranteed advantage. The pirates can't ever give a proper respose to them, so there's no way of using the pirates to figure out the correct response to a SM insult.


Not sure how clear that is. Hope it's helpful anyhow.

[Kinoko]

In short, you heard insults from other pirates, learning comebacks.

You then used those same comebacks on the Sword Masters' different insults (you had to figure out which comeback would still work which her insults).

[BOYD1981]

how appropriate, you fight like a cow

[TerranRich]

iamus, that helped greatly. I think I know everything I need to know now. Thank you very much for that detailed run-down!

Do you mind if I post it on the AGS Wiki, complete with spoiler warning? I think lots of people would find that information useful, perhaps for inspiration or just for a good read.

[Huw Dawson]

I seem to remember an umofficial patch for MSN Messenger that included an insultathon feature... Some of those insults were from Monkey Island. 

- Meh
   Huw

[ManicMatt]

I don't think it was mentioned that Guybrush would start with his own useless insults, like the aforementioned "you fight like a cow" and also "I am rubber, you are glue" and "I'm shaking, I'm shaking!" which were also used by the enemies when they didn't know the right insult response.

(Sorry if that was already noted..)

[TerranRich]

Thanks, ManicMatt, and no that was not noted. Thanks.

[Mats Berglinn]

Also, there's a thing that I've discovered that I'm not sure if anyone have figured it out. Before you reach Captain Smirk's gym, before you get past the troll you can try to insult the troll and he will reply: "I once knew I dog that was amrter than you" and tell Guybrush to stick that in his repotoire. Once you get trained by Captain Smirk, you'll get the insult from the beginning along with those that Smirk teaches you.

Did anyone beside me find this out too?

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

<me raises his hand>

[iamus]

Do you mind if I post it on the AGS Wiki, complete with spoiler warning? I think lots of people would find that information useful, perhaps for inspiration or just for a good read.

Don't mind at all. Go right ahead.

[Renal Shutdown]

I don't think it was mentioned that Guybrush would start with his own useless insults, like the aforementioned "you fight like a cow"..

That wasn't exactly useless.  "You fight like a dairy farmer." "How appropriate, you fight like a cow."

[Mats Berglinn]

I don't think it was mentioned that Guybrush would start with his own useless insults, like the aforementioned "you fight like a cow"..

That wasn't exactly useless.Ã,  "You fight like a dairy farmer." "How appropriate, you fight like a cow."

I think ManicMatt confuses with the Insult Armwrestling from Escape From Monkey Island. For some reason whenever Mr. Cheese didn't know the comeback for an insult he could say "How appropiate, you fight like a cow" and Guybrush can also say it but it counts as a "fake" insult/comeback. However, later in the same game when you meet Ozzie Mandrill you can have an Insult Sword Fight with him and the comeback "How appropiate, you fight like a cow" is a "correct" comeback.

Rather confusing and stupid, isn't it?

[Rui 'Trovatore' Pires]

I don't think so... it depends on whether the "dairy farmer" insult was said. If it wasn't, "fight like a cow" will never be acceptable, right? So if the "dairy farmer" insult wasn't in the arm wrestling and was in the ozzie mandril fight, it makes perfect sense.

[Babar]

Actually, Ozzie didn't use the Dairy Farmer insult. He said something else, of which "You fight like a cow" was an appropriate response.

Yeah for another useless in-depth trivia post!

[Pet Terry]

"You fight like a dairy farmer. - How appropriate, you fight like a cow." was the first insult Guybrush learned from captain Smirk in SoMI. So it definately wasn't a useless one.

[iamus]

That, and...

"Soon you'll be wearing my sword like a Shish-Kabob"
"First you'd better stop waving it like a feather-duster"