Copyright and art

[colorthemap]

So the default game comes with Roger and a space quest font.  Is this not illegal?

[Gilbert]

We just don't talk about this, ok?

[colorthemap]

Oh I know, just wondered why the contradiction.  Whatever I don't use it so whatever, prude I guess.

[SpacePirateCaine]

Also, to supplement, though I can't speak specifically for the font, the "Roger" Sprite, though bearing a resemblance to Roger Wilco, is not a Sierra-created sprite. I am under the impression that it was drawn by CJ, though I may be mistaken about that one. I'm not sure if anyone has any actual information on the font, but is that not just designed to look like the SQ4 font? Regardless of the origin, even the particularly litigious Vivendi when they owned the IPs never to my knowledge approached CJ for distributing them with AGS.

I suppose that technically under the DMCA, if the font is a direct rip of SQ4's in-game font, then it's kinda-sorta illegal, but it's not something that you should be worrying out.

[Gilbert]

Oh I know, just wondered why the contradiction.

The point is not about 'why'. It's just that no one really cares. If one ever treats it seriously, then everyone loses.

They're meant to be place-holders anyway, whether you leave them in your completed game is your own decision, and of course one who is serious with his own games will remove them from the end products anyway. Even professional products may involve placeholder art from other sources during development.

The Roger sprites (together with the marvelous bluecup^TM, pink poster and key) were drawn by CJ himself, in much better quality than all the post-SQ3 Roger Wilco sprites. Possibly only the AGI Roger could rival them. Thus, there shouldn't even be any legal problem in using the default character sprites (also, this character is mostly known as EGO or ROGER, and there is never direct indication that he's a pirated Roger Wilco).

[colorthemap]

That is what I thought, he did not look like the other versions.  He is rather husky.  I don't even use the font anyway I just use Ubuntu.  Copyright is stupid.

[Dualnames]

I'm not 100% sure on this, so I may be talking bullshit.

If the font is a Sierra font rip-off, does that make AGS illegal for using it? Or does it make just the Template and its creators liable for it?
I know AGS is freeware and Activision has other stuff to bother with, but still, the fact stays. I'm just asking questions out of sheer curiosity, and not trying to be some smart-ass.

[Eggie]

I thiiiiink the font is from Space Quest, but it's been so widely used in these games that whoever owns it must know by now and not cared. I say; go nuts!

I also vaguely remember a post from years ago that said the sideview sprites for Roger were rips but his trademark front-view with the agape, sex doll mouth was all CJ

[Ghost]

Even using the original Sierra font, and the original Rodger sprite could be considered a "gray zone", seeing that the games these sources come from are already all around the net and often considered abandonware- I daresay no-one could make a lawsuit stick (and would probably not bother to try in the first place).
But using self-made stuff that just looks like the original, well, that really should all be clean and good. We might as well sue Lady Gaga for copyin' Madonna.

[RickJ]

Or does it make just the Template and its creators liable for it?

It would make anyone who distributed it potentially liable. 

Roger Sprite - As folks have said it's not a literal copy of the original.  Another interesting point is that it is such low resolution how would anyone prove resemblance?   Given the low number of pixels and colors, there are only so many was to draw a human figure.   One would perhaps get as far as "he's wearing the same color of clothes."  Expression is copyrightable not function or utility. 

Fonts - The above points about resolution, expression, utility apply more so to the fonts.  There are fewer ways of designing a font given the even lower resolution and lack of color content.   Distribution of literal copies of a font in the form of a font library of single font file would be considered copyright infringement.  However, I don't think it is as clear when then font is used in a document or other work;  I'm not a lawyer but I don't think using a font in a document or other work infringes copyright.

It should also be mentioned that lack of enforcement action by the copyright holders for many years can hinder or prevent future enforcement.     

[colorthemap]

It's like roms, totally illegal but untraceable and really not worth the lawsuit.

[Snarky]

It should also be mentioned that lack of enforcement action by the copyright holders for many years can hinder or prevent future enforcement.

I don't think that's true. The "use it or lose it" rule applies to trademarks and possibly to patents, but not to copyright. (This is #5 on the classic list of copyright myths.)

I'm not particularly worried about the fonts that come bundled with AGS, but on the other hand I see little reason why they couldn't be replaced by something made by the community where there'd be no question about the rights situation.

[RickJ]

@Snarky:  Ability to enforce a copyright can be lost via ca concept called Estoppel.  If through your actions/inactions or words leads people to believe they can use your stuff, you can't then later sue them for doing so.

Here is recent copyright case decided by this concept in favor of an accused infringer.
http://senlawoffice.com/exclusiverights/2009/02/the-difference-between-equitable-estoppel-and-implied-license-in-a-defense-against-infringement/

I believe that this is why it's so impossible to get permission to do any kind of fan project -- there is great fear of losing the right to enforce copyright.

[colorthemap]

The issue of remakes is black and white and gray(what two ands?)

Without permission it is completely illegal just does not work(but then again so is fan-fiction). 


But the gray part is permission, say you wanted to remake King's Quest 4(which people are I know) someone like Roberta Williams probably would not give a shit.  But Activision might get pissy.  Either way Activision has better things to do, or for that matter pay people to do, than searching for implementation of a rather nice Space Quest font