I'm enthusiastic, trying to rediscover what it is I used to do when I made games, and am in a way, suffering a huge writer's block in terms of making a game.
When I used to make games, it wasn't the programming I needed help with, and while my artwork isn't the best, it usually gets the job done enough for me to get a bit further. I even used to know exactly what I was doing, in terms of which puzzles go where, and the overall plot (or at least goal for the current section). Now, though, I'm at a loss.
Maybe it's because my original idea "The Lost Planet" had been kicking around for 4 years before I even started on AGI, and it was a few years after that I started on AGS, so my idea had time to mature.
Anyhow, I've decided to start with a fresh idea, and while I know the story, I'm having trouble making the transition from story to game. I'd like to know what other people's experiences are in turning a new idea they have into a game, and how they have gone about it.
Cheers :)
Always try new ways of implementing your ideas. Don't get hooked to one idea. Try some brainstorming, perhaps.
Something you'll find with every developer is that he or she started many, MANY different games before they found one they liked making and finished it.
Therefore, just go crazy. A project you enjoy will crop up sooner or later.
:)
Quote from: m0ds on Fri 13/02/2004 14:08:58
Something you'll find with every developer is that he or she started many, MANY different games before they found one they liked making and finished it.
m0ds knows what he is talking about here: he has finished many many games now :P
Seriously, though, a few points:
1. As Barcik said, a brianstorm can be great: just write down every stupid idea you have, don't try and consider their feasibility, etc. once you run out of silly ideas, look through them all and you migth get inspritation fo rsomething taht WOULD work
2. Every writer of games, stories, etc. reaches a point where it is really hard work to carry on with a project. THat's what distinguishes wannabees from published people: perserverence through the dull bits
3. Make a game thread ijn the Games in Production forum with what you've got. Publish as much as you can. Release the game in parts so you can get out what you've already done. Any of these might give you loads of good feedback and encourage you beyond measure. You might even get suggestions on plot or offers of help!
Hi there. Yes, every single one of us can relate to your dilemma. There are hundreds of projects that fall by the wayside simply due to lack of motivation or planning.
Here's some key advice. Before you start programming, plan EVERYTHING. Many folks code as they go along, and that's a recipe for failure. It's amazing how fast production will go if you know what you're doing.
Well...I wouldn't say plan EVERYTHING.
Give yourself the flexibility to change stuff half-way through..
On the other hand...every single one of my game-making projects has failed or is gathering dust on my hard-drive after months (maybe years) of doing nothing with it so I probably don't know what I'm talking about...
"I would encourage anyone that is making *any* type of game as a hobby to keep doing it. The key to being a great game designer is to design lots of games. Most will never be made, but you always learn a lot in the process. One of the great things about working at LucasArts when I did was that all of us constantly cranked out game designs.
Most were just silly, or concentrated on a single concept that we found interesting. In the 8 years I worked there, only 4 games of mine were made, yet I did close to 100 designs. None of them were wasted time. OK, maybe "I Was A Teenage Lobot" was kind of a waste. "
- Ron Gilbert
Ah, good old Ron. I'm proud to share his surname. I agree 100%. I'm always coming up with ideas for games. I usually jot them down. Think up character sketches, plots, etc. They never get made. But the important thing is to keep your mind working and flexible.
I try to work on only one big project at a time, and collect other game ideas for later. The way I design games is different than when I started. With Ace Quest, I had a general idea that had been floating in my head for several years. So when I first began to create the game I had a general plot. This went on to my second game, as well, until I realised I was to ambitious with this game, that not planning was the most idiotic thing I'd ever have done. I had to keep checking on Global Ints to see how they would affect the game in other areas, because I wan't sure which ones I used or not.
So I kind of now mix a general planned strategy (mind you my games nowhere near completion, because of lack of time, more than lack of motivation. College, atm, is just a wee bit more important). I have the general outline for the second game (in fact I have an outline for the third and the beginings of a fourth, should I decide to continue with the series). Then when making the game, I use Rodekills' wurdsplash program to get my ideas out and kind of check everything off. That way I can record my scripts that affect the game, and know where I am going. That's the most important thing, knowing what to do next. It's soo easy to get lost if you don't plan something out.
But, my general outline is specific in parts. In other words, I splice my game up into parts, and then I write everything I need to do for that one part. Parts subsequently after this part, aren't planned in detail, until after this one part is finished. This allows me to let some ideas mature, so that not all the game is stagnant.
Also, it's good everyonce in a while, to just take a break and make a small game (even if no one is going to see it).
A good strategy, something I'm considering using (but haven't yet), I hear. Build a skeleton. This means, knowing what's going to be in a room, make a room with relacement graphics, and script all the responses and everything. And do so for all the game, so that you have the whole game scripted, and then it's just a matter of adding graphics/soundfx/music. I've found it easier to work on one area at a time. Sometimes I'll be in a music making mode, so let me work on music for the rooms I need now, and perhaps later.
So they key, I think, is planning. You absolutely need to know where you're going with big(ger) games. Hope this helps.
-MillsJROSS
I think it would be nice if Ron Glilbert released his 100 ideas which did not turn into a book into public domain 8)
The problem with that may be the fact that Lucas Arts owns them. That or he didn't release them because they were stinkers, and they were more for learning than playing.
-MillsJROSS
Ignore everyone who said to plan anything, and do what I do and make it up as you go along :P
Figure out the big story and the setting first. Take your ending, and think, "How can I fuck this up and make it hard for the player to figure out?" That's how you get your puzzles.
If you go from the end to the beginning, it's amazing how much easier it is to do. After you draw up a skeleton of your setting and have a big story, you can build the personality of your character and put in other plot elements. Write out a script.
EDIT: check this out http://www.allowe.com/GameDesign/index.htm
Thanks everyone :) Your advice has been great, and now the only real issue I have is learning to be patient enough to plan things out.
I think I'll be going with my most recent idea, which I'm not going to reveal because I don't want to create a whole load of anticipation. One day I'll revisit my original game ideas, hopefully when I'm better at the art/music side of things :)
With luck, this thread will also help others out, too.
Yes, I find patience to be the hard part - he says with at least 10 games on the go at once.
Quote from: Mr_Frisby on Tue 17/02/2004 10:31:15
Yes, I find patience to be the hard part - he says with at least 10 games on the go at once.
tell me about it. I did some brainstorming for my game idea today, and ended up with 2 new unrelated ideas.
Quote from: m0ds on Fri 13/02/2004 15:21:05
"I would encourage anyone that is making *any* type of game as a hobby to keep doing it. The key to being a great game designer is to design lots of games. Most will never be made, but you always learn a lot in the process. One of the great things about working at LucasArts when I did was that all of us constantly cranked out game designs.
Most were just silly, or concentrated on a single concept that we found interesting. In the 8 years I worked there, only 4 games of mine were made, yet I did close to 100 designs. None of them were wasted time. OK, maybe "I Was A Teenage Lobot" was kind of a waste. "
- Ron Gilbert
God damn it, Lovegrove, stop showing them teasers and give the whole thing.
:P
I also agree with working backwards. Come up with how you want your game to end and work your way towards it. There's nothing worse than spending months "making it up as you go," and suddenly realizing you have NO idea where to go from there.
Hmm, thats an interesting method, shbaz. I might try it. I agree that planning is important, but that some freedom is required for creativity to occur and for motivation. I tend to work out the story fully first when I'm writing a large design, but oddly I find that I have a detailed begining (introduction), and a clear view (often) of the end and the ending events. In the middle I have a certain area or concept but don't have it fleshed out at all. It almost feels like no story is going on there, and like it's just puzzles, but of course I would later on integrate story into it to make puzzles significant.
Actually, working from the end isn't a very good idea in some cases, because it makes the game very linear. Non-linear games that have more than one ending (or have just one, it doesnt matter) are veery hard to do this way, and normal games would turn out more linear than they already are because of the very straight line goinf from end to start.
It is also important to know your backstory, setting, and characters before thinking of what happens in the end, but after that it is possible to think on a level of "what could have caused state X to exist". Thinking this way would still allow non linearity as several things could have caused X. Still, working from begining to end is similar, as one can determine what certain events or actions
Hmm, a dillema. I guess experimenting is what is needed.
As for getting ideas, I have lately tried to get ideas from my rather boring real life, and surprisingly I got an idea for a very interesting puzzle a few days ago :). Also, books, movies, and all forms of art, can inspire ideas, but one way that is a favorite of mine is just sitting dwon for some day dreaming and brainstroming. Anything that comes to mind, maybe thinking of a theme or a certain setting or concept that hasn't been explored...
Whew, that's wnough for now.
Stephen King forces himself to write 20 or so pages each day, every day no matter how blocked he feels when he sits down.
An analogy might be to force yourself to produce one room, one character, one animation, a couple of objects, or several dialogs a day.
QuoteActually, working from the end isn't a very good idea in some cases, because it makes the game very linear. Non-linear games that have more than one ending (or have just one, it doesnt matter) are veery hard to do this way, and normal games would turn out more linear than they already are because of the very straight line goinf from end to start.
My explanation was kind of simplified from what I really do. I would write an explanation for how I'm doing the game I'm currently working on, but it's an RPG so the process is a lot different. Here's how I would design an adventure game.
1. Figure out where I want the story to take place (big city, suburb, neighborhood, all in one house, etc) Write down what the general feeling is around this place is (lively, dreary, what are the people like? Are there lots of people?). What does this place look like?
2. Who is my main character going to be? What is his/her personality like? What does he/she look like and what age?
3. Who else might be involved here? Where will they spend their time and what kind of personalities do they have?
4. Based on this setting and characters, what kind of interesting thing could go wrong here that would allow an adventure to take place? Who or what causes it to go wrong, and how could the character solve this problem?
5. Think of as many other ways to alter the storyline and fit in a puzzle by making it difficult to get certain essential items, etc. hopefully making it more interesting to play. General adventure game stuff. You can also fit in mini games at this point.
It wouldn't really be so hard to do this in a nonlinear fashion, you'd just have to come up with multiple endings in step four, and then find where the decision point is (where something is done to choose between ending 1, 2, 3...)
The bigger your game will be, the more the need to be obsessively organised. As in the example above, if your game has multiple endings, you will need to draw it out in a flowchart so as not to lose track, whereas in a simple, linear game you probably won't have to.
Try to work out as much as you can on paper before making any art or code. Get a feeling for the project, scope and feasability. If at this point you decide it won't work, you won't have wasted too much of your time.
My biggest tip for any creative type activity is: keep a notepad handy at all times!!! Ideas come at the weirdest moments and you will never remember them properly if you don't jot them down. Many great ideas have been forgotten simply by not writing them down immediately.
Heh, or you can call your voicemail and look like a weirdo, like me. I usually don't have that problem because everything comes when I'm sleep deprived.
Quote from: James Kay on Thu 19/02/2004 04:10:04
My biggest tip for any creative type activity is: keep a notepad handy at all times!!! Ideas come at the weirdest moments and you will never remember them properly if you don't jot them down. Many great ideas have been forgotten simply by not writing them down immediately.
Since '97, I've had a writing pad with me almost every day. I used to do a lot of writing, then game-planning, and then writing. I know exactly what you mean by this, and yeah, it's a great piece of advice :)
Yep, thats great advice, I always carry some paper or a notebook and a pen with me everywhere, even when I think i wont be able to write for some reason (darkness, etc).
I suppose what should be considered is that games can be made in many different ways and methods. The only rule is that almost always (even this has some flexibility) you need to design the setting and character first. In games with more than one setting, that is they move forward in location, i think it's enough to first design just the first setting and then move forward. Contrasts between location moods or backgrounds are nice to have, especcially to give a message about the character or the game/story.
Anyway, after this, going straight from the end, something we know needs to be the conclusion, could work aswell, while thinking what caused something and why.
Another way is to first have an undetailed story flow without any detail on the character or setting, and fill those in afterwards, once the story/plot is finished.
Yet another way would be to first design interesting locations, characters, etc, and then link them with a story.
I am personally eager to try out a method which would in theory allow a lot of designer sympathizing towards the player. You could build the story bit by bit from the begining, statring with the begining status quo and moving on to a certain conflisct or problem that occurs/is caused by an NPC or the protagonist, and then put yourself "into the players shoes", so to speak, and imagine an area populated with certain logical items, people, concepts, etc, and how one could use it in imaginitive ways to solve a problem.
Now that I think about it, is a game possible without a conflict, or something going wrong/being wrong? Will a game about a perfectly happy person, who decides to walk 100 km to the next town, for no particular reason, be interesting? Of course for it to be not just an interactive story in which you need to click to progress, there need to be puzzles and obstacles, or meaningfull choices along the way which present conflict. But does the actual story require something being wrong or messed up? Hmm, I think it's just the wording that bugs me, of course the story needs a challenge, a goal, a problem, except it doesn't have to be something going wrong.
Anyway, thats about all my thoughts for now. Discussions like these really give me a lot to think about. Btw, I find a lot of my ideas come when I'm sleep deprived too, in the middle of the night or just the next day after very little sleep. Sortof like insomniactic ideas, heh. ;)
There was one night on which I was sitting with lots of artciles on game design, and writing everything that came to mind (and there was a whole lot of it). "I'll just read a few more lines" became "I'll just finish these four articles..." I went to sleep at 5 in the morning. :)
P.s. Anyone know where people study game design, anywhere? I know there are people studying it, but dunno where.
I can't think of a game I really liked that didn't have some sort of problem to solve or get away from. That's a good note to make when designing a game. I have a hard time thinking of games you could make without problems.. the closest I can come up with is if you were trying to achieve something (like become a rock star, famous actor). In a way, that's still a problem though, since you don't start out that way. If you were going to walk to the next town, you would need to create problems on the way or there would be nothing to the game but walking.
I am very greatful for the idea given to work backwards, yeah the thought occured to me, but I guess I didn't realize the potential til I read it here. Maybe this will help with the writers block I have. I have the beginning and the ending, but not the middle.
Thanks.
I'm sure many olbies here have seen these ideas on game design and distribution that I have assimilated from various places, but I'll show it again for the new peeps. Its a short list, but in my opinion, very good. I'll probably add the idea that if you get stuck, work backwards.
www.freewebs.com/lucasstyle/games.htm